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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Actually I have a better solution than that mirror...
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."

I am very much in favor of giving her a body here, either Harry will get that Secretary, or we will get another addition to Spooky Girl Squad™, either way we should get her a body before the Denarians come around to smash the mirror
 
Artemis1992 said:
That's more or less a positive point for me.

Why invest so much more for a better body when it might not matter that much in the end?
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Let me rephrase this - her danger to us (that is Molly, Harry and their circle of associates) does not meaningfully decrease if we put her in a lower dot body. Her ability to defend herself against attacks without resorting to evil means does. Basically, the power level matters for good girl Lash, but much less so for Lash the betrayer. Thus, the more powerful her body is, the less incentive there is for her to resort to evil.

She doesn't need to make pacts if she can fight off Magog on her own.
 
Yog said:
If there are no objections from others who voted for me, sure, I'll edit my plan. However, the danger Lash represents doesn't strongly depend on the level of personal power her body holds. The danger is, and always going to be, betrayal. Acquiring power would be easy. She knows how darkhallow works. She could pick up a coin - not necessarily Lasciel's. She could make a pact with a demon trading some of her knowledge. She probably knows where a lot of buried magical treasure is, and where a lot of evils are sealed. I don't really think she'd be any less dangerous in a 3 dot body, then she would be in a 5 dot one.
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Yeah, if we're going to do it we might as well go all the way and make it maximum exalted bullshit.
 
[X] Actually I have a better solution than that mirror...
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."
 
[x] Yog

I also consider a mad scientist song, or at least musical accompaniment, almost mandatory in this case during construction of the body. As an Infernal Exalted who is making a body for a daughter of a fallen angel, to give her a chance to rebel against her mother, it would be an affront against Creation to not do so.

And then Molly can make a single out of it and sell it in her world with money going to some charity.
 
I want to take this opportunity to HellScry Charka and NWS. We finally have an opportunity to look under the hood and verify.

Also no plans offering to build a body include any conditions?
 
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Zoolimar said:
[x] Yog

I also consider a mad scientist song, or at least musical accompaniment, almost mandatory in this case during construction of the body. As an Infernal Exalted who is making a body for a daughter of a fallen angel, to give her a chance to rebel against her mother, it would be an affront against Creation to not do so.

And then Molly can make a single out of it and sell it in her world with money going to some charity.
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The Bad News: we have crap expression

The Good News: we literally have people for this. :V

City of Fountains, start your engines.

fictionfan said:
I want to take this opportunity to HellScry Charka and NWS. We finally have an opportunity to look under the hood and verify.

Also no plans offering to build a body include any conditions?
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I'm game for the sensory stuff, but the conditions are a bad plan.

Not that we should give her free access to our most sensitive holdings, but chains are a self fulfilling prophecy. A binding like that completely contradicts what we're trying to do, and a determined actor will eventually subvert them.

If she betrays us I'd at least like to be able to say it wasn't the result of us playing ourselves.
 
Incidentally, should we try the animation in our dragon nest? It sounds like the drain would be very uncomfortable for Porter.

Maybe we could find and temporarily occupy one in the lake for that part of the procedure. Unless that rule is getting changed, which I'd be perfectly fine with. We pay all the essence to animate it anyway, so I don't see why a dragon nest should be required in the first place.
 
[X] Actually I have a better solution than that mirror...
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."

Yog said:
If there are no objections from others who voted for me, sure, I'll edit my plan. However, the danger Lash represents doesn't strongly depend on the level of personal power her body holds.
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I say leave the commitment to a five point body. That's what I'm voting that vote for.

Yog said:
Preparing for Christmas, making gifts for everyone and such - this might not be strictly needed, but I really want to, and christmas is an important holyday.
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I'd replace that with just spending time with the family. Focus on being with the people rather than on the things that we can give them. Don't make that classic mistake.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I'm game for the sensory stuff, but the conditions are a bad plan.

Not that we should give her free access to our most sensitive holdings, but chains are a self fulfilling prophecy. A binding like that completely contradicts what we're trying to do, and a determined actor will eventually subvert them.

If she betrays us I'd at least like to be able to say it wasn't the result of us playing ourselves.
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Not even just a spoken promise not to take up any of the coins?

Fine then.
[X] Actually I have a better solution than that mirror...
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[x] HellScry Charka and Naked Wicked Souls.
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."
 
fictionfan said:
Not even just a spoken promise not to take up any of the coins?
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How will it make anything better? The problem is that unless you are basically putting her into prison with active surveillance she is going to be able to subvert it easily. A promise to "not take up coins" ? Just give a coin to someone else or lead someone to a coin. And most other oaths could be circumvented in a similar manner.

Either Molly and Harry trust Lash to have her own life as one of the main priorities and to count Lasciel as her enemy-opponent or they don't. And if they don't they should just kill her. Molly has the means.

It all comes down to trust and giving Lash a chance to be her own person. Otherwise killing her is probably the right choice. Not stringing her along, or putting her into solitary confinement where she couldn't communicate with anyone, because that's what it would take to minimize the risks of her existence.
 
One of the big things is going to be just making sure she is busy and making sure that she is visible. We're building Wolfram & Hart here and that woman is not going to be getting much sleep here on out.
 
Yog said:
That's wrong. Superior mind, superior body, and superior poise are separate arcana features. The first purchase gives you three free dots in either mental, physical, or social attributes, and raises their cap to 6. The second gives 2 more dots, and raises the cap to 7.

She gets at least 6 arcana features. Assuming a non-combat build without exotics like telepathy, she takes self-maintenance (healing for inorganics) and unaging body. That leaves 4. She could either buy favored abilities, or 10 dots of attributes. The body also gets 15 freebie points.
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Turning to the actual build for a second, @DragonParadox would you consider upgrading the superior body/mind/poise trait when used for a 5 dot arcana? Right now it sets the cap to 7, which they already get for their primary attributes. If we concentrate that much of our budget in one area it seems reasonable that we'd get some sort of cap increase for the trade off instead of "just" the extra dots.

Additionally, can we take flaws that represent Lash's current narrative status, or do they have to be "new" to get points for merits?

Stuff like:
Dark Secret (1 pt. Flaw)
Some terrible past haunts your character. P erhaps he turned on his mentor, or maybe he is secretly in love with a Widderslainte. Either way, your character's secret — which should come up from time to time as the Storyteller feels it appropriate — can cause some embarrassment or trouble for your mage (although it's unlikely to get the character killed).

Mistaken Identity (1 pt. Flaw)
Your mage is not the reincarnation of some ancient hero or nefarious character from history, the favored child that some great animal totem set its mark upon, a powerful immortal wizard who has not been seen for a hundred years or some god come down in human form. Unfortunately, he looks the part, and people who value iconography more than actions will believe he fits the role. This confusion can naturally get your mage into all sorts of trouble. People may expect him to have capabilities that he doesn't, or they may blame him for problems that aren't his own.

Witch-Hunted (4-pt. Flaw)
A dangerous and skilled mortal hunter stalks your character, fully aware of what your mage is and what he can do. Worse still, the subject is intelligent and crafty, he works to negate the advantages of your character's magic, and he may extend his hunt to your companions and associates.

While just about every mage can claim some enemy, this Flaw makes your mage a pariah. (Nobody wants to hang out with someone who's going to bring a psycho-killer along!) The hunter may even have friends or allies who continue to trouble your mage if your mage eludes, dissuades or killsthe individual. Whatever the case, this guy wants your mage dead, he's not going to stop, and he has access to special resources (or, at the very least, specialized knowledge) in his quest
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Lash basically picks up Denarian flavored versions of all of these and more by default just for cooperating.

fictionfan said:
Not even just a spoken promise not to take up any of the coins?

Fine then.
[X] Actually I have a better solution than that mirror...
-[X] Empathy and Occult excellencies
-[x] HellScry Charka and Naked Wicked Souls.
-[X] Offer a 5 dot arcana body
-[X] STUNT: "I said you both would be fine, and I meant it. And part of fine is giving you tools to defend yourself against the fallen. So, we are not done. This is just a temporary vessel, not another prison. Lash, I am going to build you a body."
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That's kind of implied? Not always the thing to be relied on, but we're extending a hand in friendship here and she's not stupid.

Lash's big hang up was what would be done to her and the people she cares about if she gets taken. Making her pinky swear not to is pointless and insulting regardless of of that was a lie or not.
 
I feels like assigning Lash a permanent cyber devil assistant loyal to us is being ridiculously permissive.

Can we at least have Dresden set conditions?
 
BronzeTongue said:
Additionally, can we take flaws that represent Lash's current narrative status, or do they have to be "new" to get points for merits?
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I really think that we must have points of native flaws, as we are not creating a new being and otherwise, the creation of beings like this would be discouraged, as their existence would be very dangerous, after all they would have their native flaws and even others added for more points.
 
fictionfan said:
I feels like assigning Lash a permanent cyber devil assistant loyal to us is being ridiculously permissive.

Can we at least have Dresden set conditions?
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He'll probably have something to say on that front yes.

We shouldn't just set her loose and move on, but I think the approach you're looking to take is counterproductive. Giving her a bunch of obvious restrictions isn't likely to be more effective for us than it has been for the last two groups she remembers working with. A little rope to hang herself with and Dresden as a parole officer might work though.

I'm still very concerned about this exploding, but I'd rather it do so because she chose to burn this particular bridge than because we tried to three laws of robotics her.

Edit: corrected critical autocorrect error.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Rolls
Harry to convince vs Lash Willpower (+2 DC from her intimacy)... Well that is one way to have an even result
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Did... did they both botch? Oh my god they did, this is hilarious.

[x] Yog

Let's not turn back right at the finish line, all or nothing it was for me, and we are already past nothing since two updates ago.

DragonParadox said:
Taking into account that Molly does not sleep at all an AP is worth a week so it depends how many times you guys think you have to roll the dice to hit the target number of successes for the level of construct you want to make. Going off what would be easiest for you guys to do, which is an animated masterwork: Base DC 8 and 9 respectively:
  • 3 Dot: 12 Design and 9 crafting successes
  • 4 Dot: 16 Design and 12 crafting successes
  • 5 Dot 20 Design and 15 Crafting successes
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So, in short, my reading says that we should commit soon, because it needs commitment anyway.

Artemis1992 said:
Why invest so much more for a better body when it might not matter that much in the end?
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Because while it wouldn't matter that much in case of he betraying us, it absolutely would in case she doesn't, because those kinds of ways for her to gain power easily would be bared in that case, so she would need the best possible body right out of the gate.
 
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