No, animals are all Po, you would have to give them intelligence increasing gifts first. You cannot unchain the inner devil of a being that does not understand what that is.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
No, animals are all Po, you would have to give them intelligence increasing gifts first. You cannot unchain the inner devil of a being that does not understand what that is.
- Location
- Earth
@Yog you'll want to add ATB buff to your vote.
Who wants to convince Lash she is her own person and not Lasciel-mini?
IIRC right now she still believes she is Lasciel and will merely be assimilated back into her.
I want to convince her that's suicide.
Arguments to bring up:
it won't make her a good person, or not a manipulator.
But it'd be a nice chink in the armor to work with for more later.
Who wants to convince Lash she is her own person and not Lasciel-mini?
IIRC right now she still believes she is Lasciel and will merely be assimilated back into her.
I want to convince her that's suicide.
Arguments to bring up:
- Unlike shades that existed only briefly Lash has significantly diverged from Lasciel. Lasciel is still so vast that being reabsorbed won't make any change to Lasciel, only kill Lash.
- Most people give in within minutes, hours. Perhaps days. Harry's lasted years. Consider for once he might actually make it until he dies.
- If she brings up that she literally is Lasciel, simply say of course Lasciel wants her to believe that. It'd be so much trouble if a tool wanted to be her own person.
it won't make her a good person, or not a manipulator.
But it'd be a nice chink in the armor to work with for more later.
Companions of the Hunter explicitly allows buffing Intelligence, so that shouldn't be a problem.
So in terms of first builds I think we should start slow to get a feel for the system at the thread level. Make some 1-2 dot prodigies for Lydia and Molly to cover areas we don't plan to have a major project in for a bit.
Things like:
- Ever Present Knuckle Dusters with -1 attack dc and double range
- Armored Clothing, glamored or simply mundane looking (if we stack this effect on our undersuit could we make it even more busted?)
- Glasses of Detect Magic. Mechanically an awareness bonus of some kind due to supernatural stuff getting highlighted in our vision.
- Essence Vessels to let Lydia pokeball ghosts for us to dump in the FCF while we work out a broader solution.
Obviously not all of those, but a few training wheel builds would be a good idea. I'd like some similar splendors, like say one to make us immune to any damage coming from metal or stone, but we probably don't have the reagents for that.
I know we're probably going to let her speak, but please remember basically everyone they screw over at some point went made the argument - if only to themselves - that since they knew about the danger it didn't apply to them. Those guys are dead or worse than dead now.
Don't treat the fallen like garden variety evil viziers, pretend we've got a trapped E7+ Sidreal or midnight case Abyssal who can 'only' apply social charms to us through their remote link. At minimum.
Things like:
- Ever Present Knuckle Dusters with -1 attack dc and double range
- Armored Clothing, glamored or simply mundane looking (if we stack this effect on our undersuit could we make it even more busted?)
- Glasses of Detect Magic. Mechanically an awareness bonus of some kind due to supernatural stuff getting highlighted in our vision.
- Essence Vessels to let Lydia pokeball ghosts for us to dump in the FCF while we work out a broader solution.
Obviously not all of those, but a few training wheel builds would be a good idea. I'd like some similar splendors, like say one to make us immune to any damage coming from metal or stone, but we probably don't have the reagents for that.
Her abilities are basically built around convincing you that listening to her talk is a good idea and then making you regret it.
I know we're probably going to let her speak, but please remember basically everyone they screw over at some point went made the argument - if only to themselves - that since they knew about the danger it didn't apply to them. Those guys are dead or worse than dead now.
Don't treat the fallen like garden variety evil viziers, pretend we've got a trapped E7+ Sidreal or midnight case Abyssal who can 'only' apply social charms to us through their remote link. At minimum.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Is something to obscure our aura a possibility? If not to outright hide it then to dampen the ability of others to detect it from long range?
- Location
- Estonia
[X] With wary hope - this is both a danger and an opportunity in equal measures. Perhaps, she can be redeemed. Perhaps, you might get some useful information out of her. And you'll never forget that she's a great danger
-[X] Talk to her
--[X] Empathy and etiquette excellencies
-[X] After the talk is over, and you are not in her presence, use Clippy's recording of the talk as the crown focus to learn her real motivations.
Even for those who wouldn't want to try to redeem her (and I do), rejecting her attempts to reach out to us at this point would accomplish nothing, but to make it clear to Lash that trying to make Harry pick up the coin is currently still her only option, and she should focus more on that. Which is something we want to avoid.
-[X] Talk to her
--[X] Empathy and etiquette excellencies
-[X] After the talk is over, and you are not in her presence, use Clippy's recording of the talk as the crown focus to learn her real motivations.
Even for those who wouldn't want to try to redeem her (and I do), rejecting her attempts to reach out to us at this point would accomplish nothing, but to make it clear to Lash that trying to make Harry pick up the coin is currently still her only option, and she should focus more on that. Which is something we want to avoid.
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- Location
- Germany
I really doubt that.
I think it's unlikely that the shadow here has the power to apply even social Charms.
She didn't against Harry so far, just high stats (humanly high stats, not what you'd expect from an Elder Exalted).
Sort of?
The good and bad thing about prodigies is that they are defined more by utility bands than by a set of specific effects they're limited to. There's a 3 dot sample prodigy that lets you travel through time, but only forwards to midnight, and a 4 dot that gives you a sword that wields itself, but is mostly mid grade mortal in skill.
So technically prodigies should be able to generate such an effect, the question just becomes what it costs to do it.
1-2 dots can be done with essence alone. 3 dots need to be done in a dragon nest and require a middle tier reagent; blood of a vampire, rare magic mushrooms, it doesn't have to be combat based just magical and somewhat limited in supply. 4+ need captured monster essence.
Hiding our aura is a big job, but 5 dots is the level of stuff that swings a campaign in a particular direction so my estimation would be 4 dots. We don't have a reagent for that, but prodigies can be adjusted by adding complications.
Making it cost essence/willpower to use, have a cool down time that stops us from using it all the time, or something entertaining like periodically needing a discharge of undirected infernal essence that produces an obvious spike when we turn it off, could all fit the bill.
It comes down to if DP agrees with the argument for a particular item more than a matter of specific black and white rules.
Not everyone accomplishes the same effort he same way, and the effort involved is different depending on how you have to do it.
We have to spend essence to get inhuman sword skills, but building an arcana that rolls 14 melee dice passively isn't that difficult. Flight is an ability that Dresden considered impossible to do with mortal magic (though it turns out high level people can cheat their way into it to an extent), but we can technically roll to activate it through BRR for free. Agg damage is slightly easier to acquire, but for most it's not nearly as easy as we have it.
Lash isn't human, she's a spirit imprint of Lasciel packed with everything her originator could give her to influence people. She isn't drawing on supernatural power to be persuasive, she's drawing on inhuman intelligence and experience.
Exalts are the ones who need all that power to break into the areas spirits like this rest at, she shouldn't need gobs of power to play at this level.
Harry gets by with the fact that you can burn willpower to ignore a social attack and that he can muzzle her most of the time, so she can't tap his willpower and then start brain bending him. If he couldn't lock her up she'd have turned him by now.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
[X] With wary hope - this is both a danger and an opportunity in equal measures. Perhaps, she can be redeemed. Perhaps, you might get some useful information out of her. And you'll never forget that she's a great danger
-[X] Talk to her
--[X] Empathy and etiquette excellencies
-[X] After the talk is over, and you are not in her presence, use Clippy's recording of the talk as the crown focus to learn her real motivations.
I freely admit, I love that girl. I think that, while alone she may be an imbalanced thing that might hurt the world, her imbalance perfectly counters Harry's imbalance and... really... she is the best thing ever to happen to him. The devil on his shoulder is speaking towards his genuine best interest and against his constant, conspicuous self-sabotage and martyr complex.
Evil is just good with the formula fucked up a little. Too much of one thing, not enough of another, applied in the wrong places and the wrong order, its no surprise you get some sort of poison or volatile substance. But I have faith that this is being remedied.
Still, the formula may not yet be safe.
-[X] Talk to her
--[X] Empathy and etiquette excellencies
-[X] After the talk is over, and you are not in her presence, use Clippy's recording of the talk as the crown focus to learn her real motivations.
I freely admit, I love that girl. I think that, while alone she may be an imbalanced thing that might hurt the world, her imbalance perfectly counters Harry's imbalance and... really... she is the best thing ever to happen to him. The devil on his shoulder is speaking towards his genuine best interest and against his constant, conspicuous self-sabotage and martyr complex.
Evil is just good with the formula fucked up a little. Too much of one thing, not enough of another, applied in the wrong places and the wrong order, its no surprise you get some sort of poison or volatile substance. But I have faith that this is being remedied.
Still, the formula may not yet be safe.
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Not going to lie this is the most 'Infernal Exalted' thing I have read in a while. I'm stealing that for the next time Usum tries to get Molly to do something.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Hiding it is a big ask, I know, but I would settle for it merely being detectable from a few blocks away rather than across a city.
You can do that with a three dot prodigy, four dots nothing but the Sight can pierce at a glance, five and people with the Sight are going to have to start to throw Perception+awareness dice
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The trouble is that it's almost impossible to tell if this is genuine on her part.
The crown could do it, once, but we'd probably get warned off by god if we start trying to read the minds of angels.
Could we use the complication buy down mechanic to get a 4 dot effect at a 3 dot price here?
Prodigies are active use items, so I'm thinking something like a foundation brush that applies an aura dampening effect with the makeup which lasts until it's significantly smudged or otherwise rendered useless as a cosmetic.
That introduces a factor we have to manage and could be used to defeat the item, but itself isn't too irritating to manage in play.
That sounds workable, though I will say you cannot make that water-proof also so it would cost you the use of BSM
- Location
- Germany
Pretty sure we are allowed to read the Fallen.
I seem to remember a WoG that they aren't of God anymore?
Can we dump holdens crafting system because its such a stupid and unintuitive system most people won't be able to participate in it. Like it takes the fun out of crafting
Can we just use the one thats in the book about making mage wonders.
I know you are worried about wands of everything and sphere requirements DP but that is both solvable with locking magical items behind regents just like this system. So that should be balanced completely. And if we make a wand of everything anyway than it just makes us a mage which isn't that broken compared to an exalt and we literally have a world filled with mages its a everything wand anyway.
Can we just use the one thats in the book about making mage wonders.
I know you are worried about wands of everything and sphere requirements DP but that is both solvable with locking magical items behind regents just like this system. So that should be balanced completely. And if we make a wand of everything anyway than it just makes us a mage which isn't that broken compared to an exalt and we literally have a world filled with mages its a everything wand anyway.
- Location
- Germany
[X] With wary hope - this is both a danger and an opportunity in equal measures. Perhaps, she can be redeemed. Perhaps, you might get some useful information out of her. And you'll never forget that she's a great danger
-[X] Talk to her
--[X] Empathy and etiquette excellencies
-[X] After the talk is over, and you are not in her presence, use Clippy's recording of the talk as the crown focus to learn her real motivations.
-[X] Talk to her
--[X] Empathy and etiquette excellencies
-[X] After the talk is over, and you are not in her presence, use Clippy's recording of the talk as the crown focus to learn her real motivations.
I guess I can have a look over that system again.
Okay, so something like this, but with some additional rules for handling active attempts to pierce it?
Credulous Calibrating Face Concealer(****)
A concealer brush of mirror bright brass, ending in a jet black tip. It seems entirely mundane outside of its unusual weight, but a closer look will reveal that the reflections on its surface are too dull, and never accurately show the image of something that touches on sight. Eyes will be blurred from faces, telescopes concealed by coincidental glare, and similar effects.
Effect:
When used to conceal physical blemishes this item reaches out through sympathy to hide spiritual ones. So long as the physical cosmetics hold only powers peer to Wizard's sight may passively detect the natural aura of the wearer.
The mage rules seem more irritating than this, especially because these are fitted to the system we're using more directly.
Some tweaks are needed, but it's not like white wolf's core crafting rules aren't at minimum equally cursed.
The problem with crafting is not really the system we use. But that do to having an advanced hell, we should be able to just make anything we want. Their is basically nothing we don't have access to use, to make whatever we want, save maybe extreme edge cases.
So the real solution in my mind is not measure crafting, in complexity, cost or what not, those are irreverent factors to someone with 5 billion subjects.
But to use pure time as the limiter. Figure out a simple formula for AP 1 equals a # of item features.
So the real solution in my mind is not measure crafting, in complexity, cost or what not, those are irreverent factors to someone with 5 billion subjects.
But to use pure time as the limiter. Figure out a simple formula for AP 1 equals a # of item features.
You cannot really make exalted level crafting with things out of your own hell... or to be more exact those things you can make with things from your own hell can also be made out of your own Essence because everything in your hell is your Essence, it is just at the moment it is in the form of matter.
Its seems simpler to me. Its just rolling until you get the number of success and on the possitive side we have a lot of examples in that system.
But they are better because they aren't made into arbitrary catagories just to limit crafting in ways that are unfun. Like why can't make weapons for others or magical tools for their soldiers.
Balance is a argument but i doubt a few magical artifacts are that unbalanced, we can already mass produce super humans and essentially fight god beings.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Crafting is always 'unbalanced' because it doesn't use the same resources as everything else. You can sort of balance charms against each other using XP costs. Crafting on the other hand is always broken for the same reason that humans dominate the world. Time and materials are converted into power with no upper limit.
But the thing is time is our most important resource. AP is the most limited resource. So it is by default capped.