Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

At a certain point you just cut your losses and don't keep sticking your hand in the woodchipper y'know?
I agree with most of your post except for this part. Given the way the Red Court actes in canon I think it is very unlikley they would take this stance.
We went Shintai against the Kakuri troop before the fight even started and we used it against Katrinn once we took our first injury...
I do recall the Kakuri one now that you mention it. I suppose we have then. I do not recall who Katrinn was but in any case my point still stands.

With more health we won't need to go Shintai the first time we take injury. People will catch on(Broken Seerer) and make a point to wear us down with mooks and whatnot so we are forced to go Shintai faster.
 
Of course the real problem is on the meta level that more XP we spend on combat the stronger our enemies get so it feels like a waste of XP.
 
I'm not proposing high tier stuff. I am proposing high quality stuff. If we, for example, requisition magical materials from the courts, I would rather use them to the utmost potential (also probably do a master class / demonstration to master craftsmen in order to establish our place among them not just as a religious figure).
1-2 dot prodigies can be made using essence and stuff from a Home Depot without any loss of functionality.

There's also a large category of things that can't help with big things but are useful for smaller ones. Vampire blood for example is good for 3 dot prodigies, but you need to burn a soul to get higher than that.

Splendors start at burning souls level, and emanations don't need anything high tier until you go for a 5 dot build.

Beyond the abstraction of background resources the crafting rules don't care about special materials unless they're special enough to count as a token.

I doubt we can get anything beyond maybe 3 dot prodigy tier tokens by mail order, because that's the only category that isn't designed to be acquired via gameplay.
 
I'll still pick the extra health, but to be fair I don't really think the Red Court's gonna send anyone out against Molly right now, given Arianna tried to sic a divine hunter on Molly only to get the tables turned so badly they probably can't even find her remains at this point.

It's not like the Lords of Outer Night go dicking around outside all that often either, and even then they'll probably think twice before going after the one who's killed an excessive number of immortals in the last few months. At a certain point you just cut your losses and don't keep sticking your hand in the woodchipper y'know? Especially given that they're still stuck in a cage match with the White Council.
You know I'd say this is true but red courts shown some pretty suicidally stupid moves. Like I don't think most of them are low int but they definitely lack wisdom at most times. Heck arianna was one of the smarter ones and the older ones are a bit senile. Given if this was normal dresden files time it'd take a year or three for them to get back to us directly.

Edit: Like I expect if we beat the red king and multiple lords of the outer night in their home territory another lord of the outer night would go no biggie we just need to send more assassins levels of stupidity.
 
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1-2 dot prodigies can be made using essence and stuff from a Home Depot without any loss of functionality.

There's also a large category of things that can't help with big things but are useful for smaller ones. Vampire blood for example is good for 3 dot prodigies, but you need to burn a soul to get higher than that.

Splendors start at burning souls level, and emanations don't need anything high tier until you go for a 5 dot build.

Beyond the abstraction of background resources the crafting rules don't care about special materials unless they're special enough to count as a token.

I doubt we can get anything beyond maybe 3 dot prodigy tier tokens by mail order, because that's the only category that isn't designed to be acquired via gameplay.
Mind you I'm gonna ask for good quality by our hells standards materials next time we go.
 
Once we have the crafting charm we can do something about that. We've mostly been focusing on the big projects, but 1-2 dot prodigies for convenience stuff would be nice. We need to mind the attunement limit, but we can pay to remove the need for that per the base rules.

Armored clothing that doesn't impede the exalt wearing it is a 2 dot prodigy, so it can be made without sacrifice or special worksite. We could make that slotless, but I think a better upgrade for the 3 dot cost is making it something like glamored armor.
To be honest?
I think that Holden's entire crafting system is an overcomplicated mess that violates some of the themes of the setting worse than the Mage The Ascension system it wants to replace.

That said, under the rules, it appears we can make Lydia something concealable that will give her at least Kevlar-tier armor(Armor 3) with no penalties. And I can find M20 armor to benchmark in some of my books.


While we might be able to get away with the bare minimum, I have rather more extensive plans, and armor at least can benefit from extra dice.
No it cant. Not for Exalted Craft.

There are hard limits to how good you can make armor even with an exorbitant dice pool.
Especially with the new Holden rules you appear to be trying to adopt, which appear to my eyes to be over-complicated fiddly trash that Im trying really hard not to engage with. Under those rules, making a prodigy is a YES/NO roll.
Crafting the Vessel: The Exalt must, either working alone, together with a group of other Exalts
with Prodigy-creating Charms, or assisted with minor un-Exalted support, physically construct
the Prodigy. This takes however long creating a mundane, un-enchanted version of the object
would, assuming the work is performed at a masterwork level. This process can be sped up with
Charms like Craftsman Needs No Tools, as normal. At the end of the construction process, the
primary architect makes an (Appropriate Attribute) + Craft roll against a difficulty two points
higher than would be usual for the project. Success means the vessel has been correctly
constructed and, if nothing else, the Exalt has an excellent example of a working mirror, bicycle,

spear, or whatever else it is she's made.
1 extra dice of Crafting is not going to make a difference in the actual Crafting.
Not when you are already throwing an Excellency at it.

I'm not proposing high tier stuff. I am proposing high quality stuff. If we, for example, requisition magical materials from the courts, I would rather use them to the utmost potential (also probably do a master class / demonstration to master craftsmen in order to establish our place among them not just as a religious figure).
If you actually check the rules you are trying to adopt, you'll find that extra successes dont appear to matter with the Prodigy system.

While we might want to bank XP for later, I feel that a combination of Command the Dead and Carraige of the Ankou very strongly buffs Lydia's combat ability. With CCoP we could make her a very formidable car-looking transport that would be useful in combat and all manner of situations. Since Command the Dead works on wood, we could also make her a life-like wooden mannequin as a driver and guilt-free bullet sponge if needed. Basically, this grants her mobility in nearly all situations, and allows her to cast Summon Bigger Fish as needed. A potent combination that makes her more independent.
-Point of correction
That doesnt work. Lydia's drones use zombie stats; they are not smart enough to play driver.

-I can see the argument. But I dont agree.

All of this shit is secondary to making sure she doesnt die and isnt incapacitated by the first shaping effect she eats.
This is especially an issue for Lydia, who has been possessed before, and whose father was bound in a magic ritual that was employing pretty blatant shaping effects.

There is a reason why Shaping Defense is so important for Exalts.
Especially when we number Outsiders and Fallen and evil wizards among our enemies, people with the metaphysical heft to do shit like potentially turn you into a frog or use an entropy curse to give you a heart attack or simply will you dead.

I will point out: We literally dropped everything to buy EIPP for Molly.
Thats how important we thought it was, and Molly has better innate countermagick than Lydia does.
[X] Yog

Every point of craft is on average, a full additional success, which means more chances of finishing or overflowing to the next project. And WOD systems use craft minimums, you cannot make something without having the raw stats in the first place.
This is not true.
ExWoD does not use Craft minimums anywhere I can see.

Not sure how much the shaping defense will even help her. Her charms are reflavored dragonblooded charms, and their shaping defense is pretty awful.
Quite a lot.
Increasing the DCs against such an attack reduces the number of successes she has to cancel out in order to withstand such an attack.

Do remember, Lydia's native countermagick is trash by Exalted standards; its a Wits 4 + Occult 1 roll, for a total of 5, and neither Occult nor Wits is Key for her. For comparison, Molly is throwing Wits 3 + Occult 5 for a total of 8, and because Occult is Key, Molly cant botch while Lydia can.

Lydia needs the help very badly playing at these levels.

We literally dropped everything to buy Ego-Infused Pattern Primacy for Molly as soon as we saw shaping damage deployed IC.
I would argue that we really need to display that same urgency here with Lydia.


Buying one more ox Body won't stop us from going into shintai at first opportunity
-Yes it would.
In providing an extra buffer of health, it increases how much damage we can sustain before going into supermode.

-Shintai is not free, citizen.
Every subsequent time you use it in a story, it increases in cost and difficulty to activate.
I quote:
The first time in a story the Infernal wishes totrigger the transformation, she must spend a turn inconcentration, 2 Essence, and 2 Willpower. Her anima expands to enfolds her in a terrible, pulsating cocoonwhich quickly shatters, revealing the Exalt in all herinhuman glory.

Subsequent attempts to don the Shintai form require a successful Essence roll in addition to the normal Essence and Willpower cost, beginning at difficulty 6 and increasing by +1 with each subsequent attempt, to a maximum of difficulty 9. If the difficulty is already 9, then every attempt to don the form past that point increases the Essence and Willpower cost of the transformation by 1 point each. The roll requirement vanishes and the Essence and Willpower costs reset at the beginning of each new story, or after the Infernal refrains from donning her demonic form for 28 days.
We need to roll Essence(3 dice at Essence 3) to activate shintai after the first time, and the DC keeps increasing.
And note that it says attempt, not use; if you try to activate shintai and fail, the next attempt is more difficult anyway.

The better we are at keeping it in reserve, the less likely we are to get caught out by a feint, or different attacks.
 
To be honest?
I think that Holden's entire crafting system is an overcomplicated mess that violates some of the themes of the setting worse than the Mage The Ascension system it wants to replace.

That said, under the rules, it appears we can make Lydia something concealable that will give her at least Kevlar-tier armor(Armor 3) with no penalties. And I can find M20 armor to benchmark in some of my books.
I don't like how it does some things, in particular how we have to murder things to get perform the highest level sorts of crafting, but there aren't really any better alternatives.
 
so how much more dangerous do we think the red king is in this quest setting as compared to canon? Outside of his domain morgan could make him flee battle since he thought he might die. Morgans a better combat wizard than dresden but morgan to mccoy is the same as harry is to morgan. So I think its safe to assume outside of his domain mccoy reasonably beats red king fairy easily in comparison? But, here dp might stat him like a methuselah which I'd consider an upgrade.
 
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I'll still pick the extra health, but to be fair I don't really think the Red Court's gonna send anyone out against Molly right now, given Arianna tried to sic a divine hunter on Molly only to get the tables turned so badly they probably can't even find her remains at this point.

It's not like the Lords of Outer Night go dicking around outside all that often either, and even then they'll probably think twice before going after the one who's killed an excessive number of immortals in the last few months. At a certain point you just cut your losses and don't keep sticking your hand in the woodchipper y'know? Especially given that they're still stuck in a cage match with the White Council.
That would be the rational choice, but you are talking about the Red Court.

The guys who poisoned Mab's righthand woman with a gift at a diplomatic reception.The guys who deliberately started the war with the White Council instead of staying home and enjoying their slaves. The guys who started using Outsiders in Faerie, turning the Summer Court, which had previously declared its intentions to remain neutral, into a hostile belligerent.

The guys currently led by an erratic blood addict, and allied to Outsiders and necromancers.
I dont think we can rely on rationality to predict them.

Hell, this whole affair where Arianna tried to throw a naagloshii at Molly on the sly, despite Molly having taken no overt action against the Reds(we even let their Blood Packs in Cleveland go home) is a pretty strong suggestion that we shouldnt assume rationality on their part.

They might not come personally, but finding catspaws to deploy is probably on the list.
 
so how much more dangerous do we think the red king is in this quest setting as compared to canon? Outside of his domain morgan could make him flee battle since he thought he might die. Morgans a better combat wizard than dresden but morgan to mccoy is the same as harry is to morgan. So I think its safe to assume outside of his domain mccoy reasonably beats red king fairy easily in comparison? But, here dp might stat him like a methuselah which I'd consider an upgrade.

It should be noted Morgan is designed to do one thing very well and that is one on one duels with magical heavy weights.
 
It should be noted Morgan is designed to do one thing very well and that is one on one duels with magical heavy weights.
I'll note word of jim mccoy is better and makes him seem like harry like morgan seems to harry. Given you know personal hitman of the council with an ability to use dark magic and has been murdering shit for like near two centuries. Hes what I imagine harry would be with a couple more centuries under his belt. I'll also note while morgans better harry could you know at least hurt him in a fight its not 100% domination its just 7 times out of 10 he'd win a fight with dresden. Also morgan notes he can't win against a skinwalker in a fair fight he was not their match.
 
I'll note word of jim mccoy is better and makes him seem like harry like morgan seems to harry. Given you know personal hitman of the council with an ability to use dark magic and has been murdering shit for like near two centuries. Hes what I imagine harry would be with a couple more centuries under his belt. I'll also note while morgans better harry could you know at least hurt him in a fight its not 100% domination its just 7 times out of 10 he'd win a fight with dresden. Also morgan notes he can't win against a skinwalker in a fair fight he was not their match.

Skill is not a linear thing, Harry could probably beat McCoy under the right circumstances and if there is one thing Dresden Files is very good at doing it is putting Harry in alternatively very bad and very good circumstances so he can shine against heavy weights one day and struggle against much less powerful foes the next.
 
Skill is not a linear thing, Harry could probably beat McCoy under the right circumstances and if there is one thing Dresden Files is very good at doing it is putting Harry in alternatively very bad and very good circumstances so he can shine against heavy weights one day and struggle against much less powerful foes the next.
Okay but the point was that mccoy is to morgan what morgan is to harry. All of them could be killed by a sniper if their shields are down. But, like in vtm if your gonna fight a methuselah no amount of pluck is gonna help you if your harry in combat without a mcguffin specifically built to kill them.

Given stuff shouldn't be one to one the red king was a fucking joke physically in some ways as harry fucking pinned him down.
 
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also not sure harry could beat mccoy ever unless he had a mcguffin, mccoy was half dead and tapped, complete bullshit subterfuge like put him in an exploding building and have a whole fuck ton of snipers and prevent him from using the ways, forced him out of his comfort zone magically forcing him to fight a certain way, or final last ditch effort with pluck, plot and effort like how he beat the red king technically.
 
I don't like how it does some things, in particular how we have to murder things to get perform the highest level sorts of crafting, but there aren't really any better alternatives.
I understand the intent.
The themes and the execution are horrible IMO. As is the fact that despite all the lather over Crafting rules, by the rules Molly can do much the same thing by simply making a Fetish instead and beating a spirit into inhabiting it.

so how much more dangerous do we think the red king is in this quest setting as compared to canon? Outside of his domain morgan could make him flee battle since he thought he might die. Morgans a better combat wizard than dresden but morgan to mccoy is the same as harry is to morgan. So I think its safe to assume outside of his domain mccoy reasonably beats red king fairy easily in comparison? But, here dp might stat him like a methuselah which I'd consider an upgrade.
It should be noted Morgan is designed to do one thing very well and that is one on one duels with magical heavy weights.
Location also matters. As do circumstances.

I suspect that facing the Red King out on the battlefield? Or in sunlight? Is probably significantly different from trying to fight him on his own home ground, in the heart of his defenses, while he's squatting on a Dragons Nest or ten. Odin essentially said as much when warning Dresden about the Night Lords and how powerful they would be at Chitchen Itza.

And wizards benefit from preptime and tools, while Rampires dont appear to. At least, nowhere as much.
So, as in most cases, it depends.
 
[X] Plan God Body

I'd rather have Craft for Molly, just becuase I like big numbers, but I don't know enough about the system to way in on the argument Yog and uju32 are having about it's relevance, I have been convinced about Lydia's spending though, saving for shaping is more valuable then the alternative.
 
I understand the intent.
The themes and the execution are horrible IMO. As is the fact that despite all the lather over Crafting rules, by the rules Molly can do much the same thing by simply making a Fetish instead and beating a spirit into inhabiting it.



Location also matters. As do circumstances.

I suspect that facing the Red King out on the battlefield? Or in sunlight? Is probably significantly different from trying to fight him on his own home ground, in the heart of his defenses, while he's squatting on a Dragons Nest or ten. Odin essentially said as much when warning Dresden about the Night Lords and how powerful they would be at Chitchen Itza.

And wizards benefit from preptime and tools, while Rampires dont appear to. At least, nowhere as much.
So, as in most cases, it depends.
not sure how much morgan benefited in tools but I already noted the location stuff. Arianna definitely put up a better effort than she did in canon to some degree here how much more powerful do you think the red king is? Even if he has like a senile demerit or something. Also like in combat mccoy is an entirely different beast compared to morgan. But, outside of his home the red kings probably a bigger threat than he was in canon I'd think right? Like is his strength stat gonna be boosted because I'm not sure they were barely superhuman in that category at home advantage?
 
It has been a tactic to save Shintai until we absolutely need it because Molly can only use it once per arc with a 100% chance of activation, and Shintai is currently her only mid combat heal option. We have never went into it at first opportunity until that plane fight. The more health she has the longer we can wait before using it.

I don't know what your talking about.
We are working with a WW system, it basically stomp your opponent or be stomped for the most part. Either you outstat and hax your opponent going in or lose. It honestly more questionable to not use Shintai going into an boss fight from the start. If we can win without Shintai then we never needed it for the fight. But if we do need it we do not have a chance without it, and could just get oneshot without ever having a chance to pop it.
 
We are working with a WW system, it basically stomp your opponent or be stomped for the most part. Either you outstat and hax your opponent going in or lose. It honestly more questionable to not use Shintai going into an boss fight from the start. If we can win without Shintai then we never needed it for the fight. But if we do need it we do not have a chance without it, and could just get oneshot without ever having a chance to pop it.
That's why we'll buy the city still stands eventually.

It auto activates Shintai instead of dying.
 
I understand the intent.
The themes and the execution are horrible IMO. As is the fact that despite all the lather over Crafting rules, by the rules Molly can do much the same thing by simply making a Fetish instead and beating a spirit into inhabiting it
For active items sure, but there's plenty of stuff outside that category.

The armor we were just talking about for example.
 
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