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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Do we need to do anything with the jet itself now if we take care of the people? If we just have it land where it was supposed to, and let it be a mystery what happened to everyone on board, then what's the drawback there?
 
DragonParadox said:
She cannot carry that much weight
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Oh yeah, I meant using Mind-Hand Manipulation. We got 5 successes with it at the start of the scene, so we should be able to lift 1000 pounds with MHM right now

How many people and bodies are there on the plane that we would need to bring to the ground?

Earlier, someone said our max speed is about mach 0.5. Assuming that's true, and if we can carry people with MHM safely at that speed, if we have the plane circle a spot at around 10,000 ft, it should take roughly 18 seconds one way to the ground. So if we take multiple trips it would probably only take like 10 minutes to transfer everything from the plane to the ground without the plane landing. We could just put the people down in a farmer's field, then order the plane to crash into the ocean and bring all the people and loot over to our kingdom.

Anaja said:
Do we need to do anything with the jet itself now if we take care of the people? If we just have it land where it was supposed to, and let it be a mystery what happened to everyone on board, then what's the drawback there?
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The most obvious drawback to me would be the possibility of someone using whatever traces we leave in the plane as a focus for some kind of information-gathering spell.
 
Anaja said:
Do we need to do anything with the jet itself now if we take care of the people? If we just have it land where it was supposed to, and let it be a mystery what happened to everyone on board, then what's the drawback there?
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We have a spirit of ours in there.

Which can be interrogated.
Need to remove it, which can only be done by destroying whatever electronics it's part of.

So we'll probably have the jet land on some highway?
Then destroy the electronics/computer.
 
Captainwolf said:
Oh yeah, I meant using Mind-Hand Manipulation. We got 5 successes with it at the start of the scene, so we should be able to lift 1000 pounds with MHM right now

How many people and bodies are there on the plane that we would need to bring to the ground?
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We can have all our passengers carry a full load and I see no reason not to just go to our kingdom directly from the plane.
 
I would want to bring the plane into the hell even if in pieces. The Engine, cockpits, black box etc all of this is is a treasure trove of information for the FCFF to reverse engineer.
 
Captainwolf said:
Is velocity inherited when we teleport to our kingdom?
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All motion is relative. So likely no more so then from earth traveling though space.

Or maybe I should say that our kingdom is always traveling at the same velocity as us. Because it is us.
Earth-Destroyer said:
I would want to bring the plane into the hell even if in pieces. The Engine, cockpits, black box etc all of this is is a treasure trove of information for the FCFF to reverse engineer.
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We don't have the spare essanse at the moment for multiple trips.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Anaja on Sep 22, 2023 at 1:14 PM, finished with 66 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Let him have them, you can afford to be generous
    [X] Trade him elder bodies for it (Opposed roll to decide how many)
    [X] Try to claim them for yourself (Charisma+Intimidation opposed)
    -[X] Use excellency
    [x]Null
    [X] Try to claim them for yourself (Charisma+Intimidation opposed)
    [X] Let him have them, you can afford to be generous
    -[X] use the crown on them to learn how can the lore used to create them can be obtained.
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[X] Try to claim them for yourself (Charisma+Intimidation opposed)
-[X] Use excellency

[X] Let him have them, you can afford to be generous

I certainly don't want to trade him for them.
 
[X] Trade him elder bodies for it (Opposed roll to decide how many)

We have no great news for bodies that I'm aware of. A vial of blood or a pound of flesh from each is nice for being able to ask a question per.
 
Anaja said:
Do we need to do anything with the jet itself now if we take care of the people? If we just have it land where it was supposed to, and let it be a mystery what happened to everyone on board, then what's the drawback there?
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Setting aside the divination stuff, we are definitely not immune to indirect investigative magic.

Stuff like canon!Molly's ability to read the history of objects/people, looking for traces of auras, and stuff like that. Parking a plane load of evidence somewhere and leaving it isn't ideal.

If we can't contrive a way to get it into our hell we should levitate everyone out with MHM then have the cyber devil crash it as hard as possible. Then follow up by smashing whatever's left with telekinesis, dousing it with gasoline, and setting it on fire.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Setting aside the divination stuff, we are definitely not immune to indirect investigative magic.

Stuff like canon!Molly's ability to read the history of objects/people, looking for traces of auras, and stuff like that. Parking a plane load of evidence somewhere and leaving it isn't ideal.

If we can't contrive a way to get it into our hell we should levitate everyone out with MHM then have the cyber devil crash it as hard as possible. Then follow up by smashing whatever's left with telekinesis, dousing it with gasoline, and setting it on fire.
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Crashing it into the ocean should be enough to wipe away all of the metaphysics clues. IIRC, flowing water pretty much erases lingering magic in the DF setting, right?
 
If we had any way to move it even somewhat legitimately into our control, like the auction for the car, then I'd be all for it.
 
The real spicy take is if Broken Seeker is going into our place of power. I can see him being unwilling or us being unwilling.

However if he isn't going into our kingdom then it makes sense to give him the jet. Then he can impersonate Arianna either to muddy the trail on any investigation or just see how many of her friends he can eat before people figure out what is going on.

Also if the plane gets parked at an airport our options for getting it later improve. Maybe some other member of the red Court gets the plane and we get a built in spy?

Of course for that we should fix things up before landing, but that shouldn't be a problem for us.
 
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firefrog600 said:
The end point is the thing being discussed we either kill them all or we kill the top brass. What do we want?
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We dont know yet.
Insufficient data, try again later.

Anaja said:
It was also Arianna's doing. Not exclusively, but in large part. And she was the only one that knew who to target with the bloodline curse. Presumably that knowledge dies with her.
Changes could possibly happen, assuming that we take no further actions that have any impact on anything, but, even with that assumption, we've likely knocked events on to a new track.
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Was she? She discovered it, but that doesnt mean she kept it to herself.
And I am reasonably sure that Arianna has written records.

The exact sequence of events in canon has been knocked off course, but Maggie is still in Mexico, her mother's partner is still a Red Court triple agent, and people are still aware of Dresden's ancestry.
The elements of the bomb still exist; good odds someone else assembles it.

Goldfish said:
Although Molly isn't aware of Arianna's political ambitions within the Red Court, it wouldn't be outside the bounds of reason for her to decide the best way to frame this attack is to make it seem like an internal dispute within the Court. Given the nature of the hit, the location (both within the Reds' territory and on a jet miles up in the atmosphere), Rampire betrayal is going to make more sense than enemy action, IMO.

With the right Crown questions, Molly might even get an idea of Arianna's intentions.
If we do discover that, and can figure out a decent way to implicate Reds in her death, the king in particular, that could cause a lot of instability within the Court.
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I dont really think that will work.
If the Fellowship knows we were here, the Reds will as well; even if their own intelligence gathering is slow or fucked up for some reasons, this is high profile enough that they are going to work their moles for intel.

And of course there was Molly going shintai in Mexico's skies and literally warping reality.
Every spirit and supernatural entity in Mexico is going to look at the screaming ghosts of the Lerma River and Rio Grande Santiago, then the unquiet skies and put two and two together.

Not to mention that since we warned Winter of potential Red Court intruders trying to flee across Faerie tonight, Maeve and her retinue, and maybe even Mab are pay per viewing that shit on a widescreen with popcorn.
I dont really think we can maintain sufficient ambiguity to worsen Red Court internal politics even if we wanted to.

Besides, its gonna be impossible to get the PR benefits of killing Ortega without being publicly known to have killed Ortega.
And why.

Goldfish said:
I get where you're coming from, dude, but you're leaning a bit too hard into hyperbole here.

The fear was never that Molly would be instantly implicated as betraying Broken Seeker, at least not so far as I understood the argument. The issue was that once the act is committed, interested beings would eventually be able to discover the details when they turned their attention toward it. The betrayal may not have been discovered or become widely known for months or even years.

That's how it is for anything regarding this sort of intel when you don't have direct witnesses or credible recordings.
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Close.

We killed Arianna Ortega.
We killed all the ancients. We killed most of the lesser vampires, to the point that if they search they'll find the bodies of those that tried to jump out of the plane, ran into the firewall and were set on fire before slamming into the earth.

This is going to be obvious, or quickly confirmed by the Red Court, and any interested parties using magical means.
The fight was not magically subtle, especially with Molly popping shintai.

Now did we kill everybody? Thats a significantly harder question to conclusively answer.
They will probably find some of the lesser vampire bodies that jumped out of the plane; the uncertainty for the Red Court will be if they found all of them, or if there are young vampire bodies still out there that, say, coyotes or buzzards get to before any search parties.

This will take time. It will take effort and resources.
Its not going to be something they can be reasonably sure of picking up. They will have the broad outline of events by the end of the day, but details are going to take time to figure

And depending on how we deal with the plane itself, we can make it even more difficult for them to ascertain details of what happened.

BoredMan said:
I thought you said Chicago was normal magic wise when I made that comment comparing it to Gotham? It can't be both.
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*checks*
No, I said Chicago was safer than most other cities because Dresden was there. Not that it was more normal.

There's lots of fae and spirits in and around the city that mostly mind their own business and thus their only contacts with Dresden are gossip; there's at least one Finnish demigod in the Chicago area practicing mostly mundane law that Dresden didnt even know was there until after Battlegrounds IIRC.

But if you're not predating on humans, you're generally not Harry's business.
If you are predating on humans, or have plans to, or even choose to fuck with minor wyldfae, you generally move to a less dangerous city for that kind of thing.
Captainwolf said:
Oh yeah, I meant using Mind-Hand Manipulation. We got 5 successes with it at the start of the scene, so we should be able to lift 1000 pounds with MHM right now
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That wasnt the activation roll, that was the roll for opening the door; the activation roll wasnt shown.
Or potentially the QM didnt bother because we rolled too high.

Given that there's around 8x humans and 3x Red dhampires aboard, adding the 7x Red Court PoWs, and estimating an average of 200 pounds per person here, that comes to around 3600 pounds
Which should be well within our lift capacity given the dice we rolled.

For reference, an A320 fully loaded is in the 70-ton neighborhood.
A little outside of MHM's current load capacity. Maybe if we make an artifact to provide bonuses for that kind of thing.

Goldfish said:
Crashing it into the ocean should be enough to wipe away all of the metaphysics clues. IIRC, flowing water pretty much erases lingering magic in the DF setting, right?
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My original plan was to land it on the highway, have the cyberdevil fry all the electronics including the flight recorders, then set the plane on fire with the remaining gas in its tanks.
Make it look like a drug cartel operation to the mortal authorities while trying to minimize information gathering for the Reds

But if you want to crash it into deep water?
Maximum cruise for the A320 is around 900kmph, and eyeballing the map, its at least 300km to the coast in a straight line from Leon. Which would be 20ish minutes of flight time, depending on our exact current position. Giving time to loot papers and stuff.

The problem with the water option is the fomor.
They do business with the Reds/are silent allies, so I dont know if they can raise parts of the plane for them
 
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