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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
There is a canonical charm that does that. Pricy, somewhat slow - unless you are ready to sacrifice ppl en-masse - but it exists.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Barren Waste Inflection is interesting. By default Barren Waste Inflection gives us a -1 DC to all rolls well we are in the area.
If we manifest our kingdom with Barren Waste Inflection then our signature allows us to get a further -1 DC on rolls.
Because we have lord of the land we are able to control the weather in our kingdom so cold (+2 dice) and wet (-1 DC) can be assumed alot of the time.
It really stacks up even without us being able to call down lightening bolts on people.
FWIW, we could also make it cold, wet, slippery, absurdly windy, or whatever for an additional dose of "debuff enemies" on top of "buff yourself."
Shame that there are innocents in the AoE range, "this plane is now underwater, have fun fighting like that" would've been hilarious with Boiling Sea Mastery in play.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I mean if we don't have to worry about collateral damage we can take it quite a few steps further with close to absolute zero super radioactive landscape where supersonic iron fillings tear though everything and everything is covered in hukapanui who eat everything.
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1)If Saudi Arabia are going to execute you for heresy and the CIA offer you a job instead, it doesnt matter that its not the CIA threatening you or that they had nothing to do with your current situation.
You would still be accepting that job under duress.
Dresden had a broken back, his daughter was kidnapped and was going to be sacrificed, and the sacrifice would power a curst to kill him, his ex-girlfriend and his brother. He then called Mab and asked for the Winter Knight job he'd rejected multiple times.
That was definitely accepted under duress, but still of his own free will as it counts under Dresdenverse rules.
And no, Uriel didnt help Dresden scam Mab.
Uriel specifically intervened because a Fallen, either Lasciel or Anduriel since we only see a shadow, had previously intervened specifically by whispering in Dresden's ear to get him to kill himself. So he rebalanced the scales.
He certainly didnt deprive Mab of Dresden's services, or say that the job was null and void.
2)Cassius outright said that he wasnt sincere.
Michael said, in a very quiet voice, "I end you."
The snakeman stared at me for a very long time. Then he started to rasp and shake. It took me a minute to realize that he was laughing at me. Snakes weren't really meant for laughter. It didn't sit well on a serpentine body.
"You cannot threaten me," he said. "There is nothing you can do to me."
"I see a couple of holy swords here that make me think otherwise."
"No," the Denarian said. He reached up to his forehead and clawed at the sigil there, as if trying to peel off his own skin. The symbol flashed, and then faded, along with the second set of eyes. The whole of him rippled, scales abruptly melting away. For a second, the features of Father Vincent emerged from beneath the scales. Then they too faded away, replaced by a man's pinched and hardened features. He was dark of skin, maybe Moorish, and he wasn't big. Five feet and a little change, and not more than one-fifty. Average height, several centuries ago.
The man lowered his hand and let a slightly tarnished silver coin roll across the floor to Michael's feet. "My name is Quintus Cassius, and I have long been slave to the will of the demon Saluriel." His dark eyes glittered with malice, and his tone dripped with sarcasm. "I beg you for mercy and the chance to mend my ways. How ever can I thank you, Sir Knight, for saving me from that torment."
Shit. He was playing the morality card. I shot a glance at Michael.
The big man frowned at snakeboy Cassius, but didn't miss a beat in drawing out a white handkerchief embroidered with a silver cross, and folding the coin up in it. Michael and Sanya exchanged a long look, and then both of them put away their swords.
"Uh, guys. What the hell are you doing? Dangerous demon murderer here, remember?"
"Harry," Michael said. "We can't. Not if he's surrendered the coin and asked mercy."
"What?" I demanded. "That's stupid."
"Of course it is," Cassius said. Glee danced in his voice. "They know that I am not sincere. They know I will turn on them at the first opportunity. That I will obtain one of the other coins and return to what I have done for centuries."
I stood up, angry enough that the chair fell over. "Michael, if you turn the other cheek on this bastard he'll tear it off your face. You're supposed to be the freaking Fist of God."
"No, I'm not, Harry," Michael said. "The purpose of the Knights is not to destroy those who serve evil."
"Indeed not," Cassius said. Somehow, there was more of a hiss in his voice now than when he'd been a snake. "They're here to save us."
"To save them?" I stared at Michael. "Is he kidding?"
Michael shook his head. "No one else can face the Denarians, Harry. No one else can challenge the Fallen. This moment might be the only chance Cassius has to turn aside from what he has chosen. To change his path."
"Great. I'm all for changing his path. Let's change it to a direct line to the bottom of Lake Michigan."
Michael's expression was pained. "The Knights are here to protect freedom. To give those who are under the oppression of dark forces the chance to win free of them. I cannot sit in judgment on this man's soul, Harry Dresden. Not for you. Not for anyone. All I can do is remain faithful to my calling. Give him the chance to see hope for his future. To show him the love and compassion any human being should show another. The rest is out of my hands."
I watched Cassius's face while Michael spoke. His expression changed. It became harder. More brittle. And bitter. What Michael said had touched him. I didn't believe for a second that it had touched Cassius enough to change his mind. But it touched him enough to drive him toward fury.
I turned to Michael and said, "Do you really think that thing is going to start sipping of the milk of human kindness?"
"No," Michael said. "But that doesn't change my purpose. He has surrendered his coin, and the influence of it. The rest is not for Sanya or me to decide. It is Cassius's choice."
The snakeman stared at me for a very long time. Then he started to rasp and shake. It took me a minute to realize that he was laughing at me. Snakes weren't really meant for laughter. It didn't sit well on a serpentine body.
"You cannot threaten me," he said. "There is nothing you can do to me."
"I see a couple of holy swords here that make me think otherwise."
"No," the Denarian said. He reached up to his forehead and clawed at the sigil there, as if trying to peel off his own skin. The symbol flashed, and then faded, along with the second set of eyes. The whole of him rippled, scales abruptly melting away. For a second, the features of Father Vincent emerged from beneath the scales. Then they too faded away, replaced by a man's pinched and hardened features. He was dark of skin, maybe Moorish, and he wasn't big. Five feet and a little change, and not more than one-fifty. Average height, several centuries ago.
The man lowered his hand and let a slightly tarnished silver coin roll across the floor to Michael's feet. "My name is Quintus Cassius, and I have long been slave to the will of the demon Saluriel." His dark eyes glittered with malice, and his tone dripped with sarcasm. "I beg you for mercy and the chance to mend my ways. How ever can I thank you, Sir Knight, for saving me from that torment."
Shit. He was playing the morality card. I shot a glance at Michael.
The big man frowned at snakeboy Cassius, but didn't miss a beat in drawing out a white handkerchief embroidered with a silver cross, and folding the coin up in it. Michael and Sanya exchanged a long look, and then both of them put away their swords.
"Uh, guys. What the hell are you doing? Dangerous demon murderer here, remember?"
"Harry," Michael said. "We can't. Not if he's surrendered the coin and asked mercy."
"What?" I demanded. "That's stupid."
"Of course it is," Cassius said. Glee danced in his voice. "They know that I am not sincere. They know I will turn on them at the first opportunity. That I will obtain one of the other coins and return to what I have done for centuries."
I stood up, angry enough that the chair fell over. "Michael, if you turn the other cheek on this bastard he'll tear it off your face. You're supposed to be the freaking Fist of God."
"No, I'm not, Harry," Michael said. "The purpose of the Knights is not to destroy those who serve evil."
"Indeed not," Cassius said. Somehow, there was more of a hiss in his voice now than when he'd been a snake. "They're here to save us."
"To save them?" I stared at Michael. "Is he kidding?"
Michael shook his head. "No one else can face the Denarians, Harry. No one else can challenge the Fallen. This moment might be the only chance Cassius has to turn aside from what he has chosen. To change his path."
"Great. I'm all for changing his path. Let's change it to a direct line to the bottom of Lake Michigan."
Michael's expression was pained. "The Knights are here to protect freedom. To give those who are under the oppression of dark forces the chance to win free of them. I cannot sit in judgment on this man's soul, Harry Dresden. Not for you. Not for anyone. All I can do is remain faithful to my calling. Give him the chance to see hope for his future. To show him the love and compassion any human being should show another. The rest is out of my hands."
I watched Cassius's face while Michael spoke. His expression changed. It became harder. More brittle. And bitter. What Michael said had touched him. I didn't believe for a second that it had touched Cassius enough to change his mind. But it touched him enough to drive him toward fury.
I turned to Michael and said, "Do you really think that thing is going to start sipping of the milk of human kindness?"
"No," Michael said. "But that doesn't change my purpose. He has surrendered his coin, and the influence of it. The rest is not for Sanya or me to decide. It is Cassius's choice."
And as demonstrated later, you dont get take backsies on that sort of thing; he couldnt recall the Coin, Nicodemus wouldnt give him another Coin, and he spent the next several years on the run until he hooked up with the Kemmlerite Grevane and returned to Chicago specifically to try and get Lasciel's Coin from Dresden.
And Dresden killed him.
3)The deal was A year of your memories and I give Dresden relief so he has a chance against the Reds trying to kill him.
The Leanansidhe made the offer to Susan, and she accepted.
Dresden poisoned himself.
He partook of the refreshments at a Red Court diplomatic reception, that the Reds had poisoned it with their venom. This was in addition to his broken oaths to Lea, which were making his powers backlash against him.
And its notable that after this affair, Dresden didnt make promises and break them. He would posture, but he learned his lesson.
As an aside? That kind of history of bad faith stuff fuckery (seriously, who the fuck poisons the drinks at their own reception?)is precisely the sort of bad-faith rules lawyering I talked about that got the Red Court the reputation where, when the bill came due, a lot of people got together to put the boot in.
4) Agree to disagree.
1) Flies with wings =/= Is slower than Molly.
2) He's a naagloshii. I would give him decent odds of getting through a Winter blockage, and its not like Winter have a dispute with him personally, the way they do with the Red Court.
3)The White God has an explicitly enumerated limited intervention policy. We know nothing about the breadth of Seeker's abilities. Not the same thing.
COMMENTARY
Hmm. I dont recognize the fate twisting power.
Seeker has 13 HLs? Huh. I was thinking he had more.
Maybe he just hasnt got all the gifts running.
The regen was expected though. As is the wound penalty negator.
All the ancients are dead. Bodies to loot as foci.
They didnt break, I'll give them that much; whether it was brave or foolhardy depends on your perspective.
Or he just wasnt bothering to defend because they werent going to do enough damage, and he has regen?
I mean, he's a spellcaster, so if he really wanted to stop them he'd have put up a shield.
He appears to be statted in these circumstances to have the base regeneration of a Garou, and I am suspicious that he has Rank 6 Gifts in reserve, which...well.
I dont want to face an Avatar of the Wyrm in close quarters, not without our full combat suite.
I may be remembering wrong, but Red Court vampires are basically chest burster aliens that can eat the human they gestate in and absorb their memories.
They're the parasitic wasps of the supernatural world.
They keep some bits of humans' minds and flesh smeared on their surface to slow down people like Molly.
They're the parasitic wasps of the supernatural world.
They keep some bits of humans' minds and flesh smeared on their surface to slow down people like Molly.
To quote the archangel who Molly just spoke to:
^^^
This isnt a blank slate PC; this is Molly Carpenter, daughter of Michael.
Who literally just had a conversation on this matter a couple days ago with the Archangel Uriel.
It makes IC sense that she'd offer.
VOTE
[X] Try to get the vampires to surrender (Charisma+Intimidation)
[X] No
RATIONALE
1) Like @Yog pointed out?
If taking down the Red Court is on our to-do list, inside intelligence on how it works from people who were there at a high level, like any vampires and mortals that have been on the Red King's daughter's retinue, will be of immeasurable value.
Both immediate military intelligence on the war, and longerterm information on Red Court society are on the table here.
We should take it. Or at least make the offer.
2) Molly had a conversation on redemption with the archangel Uriel barely a couple days ago, and this was one of the few questions that actually got a detailed answer. That kinda thing has an impact on people like a Catholic raised by Catholics; for all we know, this is one of the potential encounters that made Uriel specifically time his house call for when he did.
3) Also worth finding out how Mercy in Servitude works on Red Court vampires and half-Reds.
And we can see if making them fomor might help.
4) As for the King and Kingdom vote?
Like I've said, the potential consequences of uncontrolled, unpremeditated permanent changes are too far reaching for my liking. Like having your dog doo-doo on the sidewalk without cleaning up after it. Pass.
If we want permanent changes, we'll buy a permanent charm.
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Yep, they are not human, though they can certainly deceive themselves into thinking they are the mortal they consumed. Case in point Susan in canon, she dies willingly to kill the Red Court after she becomes a vampire, that is the only way the bloodline curse could work to kill all of them.
Molly has no illusions about what they are but well... *points at Broken Seeker* he is even more alien than them.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Try to get the vampires to surrender (Charisma+Intimidation)
[X] No
[X] No
The RPGs make it very clear that you the PC are not the vampire you turn into. It is not a physical parasite, more of a spiritual one that is hatched by the act of murder.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Ok that actually makes the ethics more complicated than I thought. Because my thinking was every Red has killed someone to become a Red so every one of them is at least a murder.
But if they are born from the act of killing then theoretically the newborn red is actually innocent.
But if they are born from the act of killing then theoretically the newborn red is actually innocent.
Yup.
Fixing Emma-O is on Molly's to-do list, and I am reasonably sure that he is personally responsible for more suffering than any single Red Court vampire that lives, with the possible exception of the Red King.
And its probably better for Molly's mental well-being that she makes the offer to see if there are those willing to sincerely take it.
At least she has somewhere to put them.
Worst comes to worst she can look into the fomor charms like Spawning Pit Infliction and see how that works.
For what it's worth these are reasonably old vampires, they are using decent amounts of potence and celerity at least, Molly is confident all of them must have killed someone just by the nature of their appetites and the culture in which they were immersed.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Obviously the old ones, but I had gotten the impression that we had killed the old ones mostly with just the younger ones left.
They aren't uncontrolled we bring over exactly what we choose to. Most stuff in the wastes can't survive out of close to absolute zero temperatures.
That said it does seem weird that we can bring organics.
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Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
If we make (some of them) surrender we are cracking open the Red Court. There are a lot of secrets there that those guys wouldn't want to get out, even the mundane things being unconscionable from an OPSEC perspective. They don't want the Council to even know whether they have Casual Fridays down in Mexico City.
Which... is useful for persuading Seeker. This is going to be far bloodier than just killing these dudes.
Rather than killing handfuls we are going to be wading through crimson.
Which... is useful for persuading Seeker. This is going to be far bloodier than just killing these dudes.
Rather than killing handfuls we are going to be wading through crimson.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I do wonder if some red Court elders who are secretly starting to lose their self control will want to secretly start working for Molly in order to deal with the problem.
We could end up with more spys in the red Court then they have in the white council.
We could end up with more spys in the red Court then they have in the white council.
I'd say neither; their knowledge of Molly was probably incomplete, but they sure as shit knew what Broken Seeker is.
Allowing yourself to be taken alive by something like that, especially when it has no reason to keep you even nominally intact, is just setting yourself up for a really horrible death.
Fighting hard enough that it ends up killing you in the struggle is probably the best option available if you can't put down or escape from a Naagoloshii, and it's always possible that you get astronomically lucky and find another way out.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Yes this intimidation check is likely to be a really weird case where we do an intimidation check well playing the good cop. Maybe empathy would actually make more sense?
Because we aren't actually trying to scare them. They are already about as scared as it is possible to be. What we are doing is giving them hope that there might be some way that they live though this. We are throwing them a rope.
I don't know. In a world where hells are real verifiable fact and you are a vampire who has been kicking puppies and eating kittens for centuries death isn't actually any sort of escape. They likely ended up in one of the hells which are likely even better at torture then Broken Seeker.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] No