Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
What exactly knows Molly about the White Council's spy problem again?

I remember the Nazi-Sorcerer which we've given over to the White Council and used the Crown on to get a bit more (but kept it close to the chest with only telling Harry)

Does Molly know more, like about Archangel?
 
[X] Plan "Gift Giving"
-[X] Use the recording of the call with Merlin as a focus for the crown to compile the list of traitors to White Council (the question being something like "who are all the traitors to the organization led by the person recorded in this call who identified himself as Merlin")
-[X] Gift said list to him as a good faith offer
-[X] Put your money where your mouth is and show yourself to be a friend of the Council, after extracting the promise that the information won't fall into the hands of traitors
-[X] Excellencies as needed to sell this

Note - traitors, not enemies. Ie betrayers.
 
[X] Yog

[] No, you know there are high placed traitors in the White Council, keep the secret of your plans even if it means you have to stonewall him

[X] Plan Softer Information Control
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
[X] Plan "Gift Giving"
-[X] Use the recording of the call with Merlin as a focus for the crown to compile the list of traitors to White Council (the question being something like "who are all the traitors to the organization led by the person recorded in this call who identified himself as Merlin")
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That significantly increases other people's knowledge about Molly's divination abilities.

It might be worth it, but it also might not be.

People are wary about others being able to pluck secrets out of thin air.
They have secrets too.


We should also bring our Dad to the meeting, I hope he's home.
Though with the close Broken Seeker encounter he should be unless he got a Job.
 
LightLan said:
That significantly increases other people's knowledge about Molly's divination abilities.

It might be worth it, but it also might not be.

People are wary about others being able to pluck secrets out of thin air.
They have secrets too.


We should also bring our Dad to the meeting, I hope he's home.
Though with the close Broken Seeker encounter he should be unless he got a Job.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is basically the same dilemma as we had when meeting Mab. When we talked with her we basically didn't disguise our Crown at all. We just went all in on defense of Creation, setting personal paranoia aside. This is the same here. White Council are ultimately good guys. If we trust them to be good guys, we should give them the information. Cover it with some plausible thing, so it's not "intellectus grade", but give them information nevertheless. Important people already know that we are a great seer.

We might want to first ask a question about Merlin himself to see if he's not a traitor / black hat / evil, but I'm not sure what to use. @DragonParadox would we be able to use a copy of Arthurian tales (or a Disney cartoon recording or something like that) to ask something like "what are them motivations of the man currently holding the title of Merlin"?

Or maybe use cyberdevils to get his social security number (or what they use in UK) and use that?
 
Maybe ask for a contact number with a call sign to verify your identity and say you're willing to share who your target was after the fact?

"Azure Sanfrancisco. Arianna Ortega"

Something like that.
 
If we are telling Merlin about this ambush we need to ask the question of where the leak in the White Council is. Not who because we might not be able to see that, but where is something we should be able to see.
 
I am… unsure about Yog's plan.
Merlin has no reason to trust Molly, and I expect at least some of the traitors to be among people he trusts and sees as his friends.
It can backfire spectacularly. Mab at least knew some things to take Molly seriously, Merlin does not, as of yet.
 
Yog said:
[X] Plan "Gift Giving"
-[X] Use the recording of the call with Merlin as a focus for the crown to compile the list of traitors to White Council (the question being something like "who are all the traitors to the organization led by the person recorded in this call who identified himself as Merlin")
-[X] Gift said list to him as a good faith offer
-[X] Put your money where your mouth is and show yourself to be a friend of the Council, after extracting the promise that the information won't fall into the hands of traitors
-[X] Excellencies as needed to sell this

Note - traitors, not enemies. Ie betrayers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Just as a note here, he is going to ask you how you know this, straight up Arthur is not Mab, he does not have Mab's vast power and the confidence that comes with it, he does not have the ability to read you consistently because his dice pool is for the most part mortal. He rolled 8 dice for Perception+Empathy. 10 is the hypothetical human maximum for a dice pool, 8 is world class... Molly can still beat 8 dice consistently, she is going to walk in there feeling like a demon lord and looking like a cypher. It would be best to have an answer to how she know before she brings up any traitors.

Remember too that not everyone is as much of a paranoid SoB as the Blackstaff, these are people the Merlin has known and has worked with for centuries, to accuse them of unspeakable treachery is not an easy thing.
 
DragonParadox said:
Just as a note here, he is going to ask you how you know this, straight up Arthur is not Mab, he does not have Mab's vast power and the confidence that comes with it, he does not have the ability to read you consistently because his dice pool is for the most part mortal. He rolled 8 dice for Perception+Empathy. 10 is the hypothetical human maximum for a dice pool, 8 is world class... Molly can still beat 8 dice consistently, she is going to walk in there feeling like a demon lord and looking like a cypher. It would be best to have an answer to how she know before she brings up any traitors.

Remember too that not everyone is as much of a paranoid SoB as the Blackstaff, these are people the Merlin has known and has worked with for centuries, to accuse them of unspeakable treachery is not an easy thing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Would it help if we had someone vouch for us? I am fairly sure that we could get at least Maeve to confirm our trustworthiness in regards to enemies of Creation.

Or Odin.
 
Yog said:
[X] Plan "Gift Giving"
-[X] Use the recording of the call with Merlin as a focus for the crown to compile the list of traitors to White Council (the question being something like "who are all the traitors to the organization led by the person recorded in this call who identified himself as Merlin")
-[X] Gift said list to him as a good faith offer
-[X] Put your money where your mouth is and show yourself to be a friend of the Council, after extracting the promise that the information won't fall into the hands of traitors
-[X] Excellencies as needed to sell this

Note - traitors, not enemies. Ie betrayers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Maybe word it as 'leak' instead. Current wording leaves out those that are giving out info unknowingly.
 
[x] No, you know there are high placed traitors in the White Council, keep the secret of your plans even if it means you have to stonewall him

Edit:
[X]Plan Information Control
 
Last edited:
tenchifew said:
I am… unsure about Yog's plan.
Merlin has no reason to trust Molly, and I expect at least some of the traitors to be among people he trusts and sees as his friends.
It can backfire spectacularly. Mab at least knew some things to take Molly seriously, Merlin does not, as of yet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, it's much better not to tell him anything now and give the list to Ebenezar, as he's more likely to take us seriously (by Harry, if nothing else), and after he's proven the existence of a few spies he'd trust more in us.

Merlin has no reason to trust our information, especially if it indicts a member who has worked side by side with him for decades, and Harry supporting us really does not help matters, as he practically made it a point of principle to anger Merlin or the Council at all times, even when him shouldn't.

(If I were in their shoes, I would also be very angry at him and his lack of control, with his constant jokes and pop culture references and never considering anything beyond what's in front of him.)
 
Here is a thought. I wonder if any of the wardens the Merlin brought with him are traitors?

If so then we could confront them, and use our socials to get them to confess. It would both give a plausible vector for the information (We discovered they were fishy via physical proximity, then they spilled the rest), and immediate proof beyond our word.
 
Yog said:
Would it help if we had someone vouch for us? I am fairly sure that we could get at least Maeve to confirm our trustworthiness in regards to enemies of Creation.

Or Odin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It seems unlikely that getting Winter to vouch for you would help much although... if you just slapped a favor in front of Mab and asked her 'I need this wizard to believe me' she would probably do something. Molly is not sure what or how traumatizing it might be but she would not put it past Mab to have a foolproof plan for just such an occasion or something
 
[X] Yes, put your money where your mouth is and show yourself to be a friend of the Council

I'm betting on the red court being unable to get a good ambush together on short notice and if I'm wrong being able to survive the response.
 
Whether we tell him or not, we should use the recording to get the information anyway.

DragonParadox said:
It seems unlikely that getting Winter to vouch for you would help much although... if you just slapped a favor in front of Mab and asked her 'I need this wizard to believe me' she would probably do something. Molly is not sure what or how traumatizing it might be but she would not put it past Mab to have a foolproof plan for just such an occasion or something
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Would it be reasonable to expect that Merlin is aware of who Monoc securities are? Would it also be reasonable to call them and buy (with cash, ideally) them introducing us to Merlin? Not exactly vouching for us, but basically "sell this guy the reliable info you have on me, on my tab" kind kf deal, where they establish some of our credentials?
 
[x] No, you know there are high placed traitors in the White Council, keep the secret of your plans even if it means you have to stonewall him
We might get away with giving away a lesser secret of ours to justify our mistrust.
DragonParadox said:
"No..." Harry says obviously relieved. "He must have been lying about that."

"Ah... he wasn't lying." You hate to burst his bubble, but you would hate it more if he put himself in danger not knowing. "When I find out something about the supernatural, the occult, some secret steeped in magic that few know my power gets a little brighter, or more full maybe, like the secret is fuel to its fire. When Gorfel said that thing about Black Magic and the Senior Council it kindled with it."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Specifically this one.
That we get knowledge that something truly is a secret since we gain power from it.

[X]Plan Information Control
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
Would it help if we had someone vouch for us? I am fairly sure that we could get at least Maeve to confirm our trustworthiness in regards to enemies of Creation.

Or Odin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maeve, who has a reputation for centuries of sadism, torture and worse, who has never taken her duties anywhere near totally serious among other things, this Maeve? As for Odin, he is an external faction with his own goals different from the White Council, who unlike the fairies can lie very well and whose connection with them, beyond the possible mercenary jobs over the centuries, was just to teach Merlin?

I also believe that nobody knows the existence of the Black Council yet or its connection with nemesis, so we can't even use the excuse "I don't like Outsiders" to reason.

Yog said:
Whether we tell him or not, we should use the recording to get the information anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
On that we agree
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
Whether we tell him or not, we should use the recording to get the information anyway.


Would it be reasonable to expect that Merlin is aware of who Monoc securities are? Would it also be reasonable to call them and buy (with cash, ideally) them introducing us to Merlin? Not exactly vouching for us, but basically "sell this guy the reliable info you have on me, on my tab" kind kf deal, where they establish some of our credentials?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Aware yes, believes they are reliable, no, he has read too much Norse Mythology for that. :V

Seriously though Odin is the kind of person who would fuck you over without even approaching a breach of the Accords and you might not even realize it until a dragon kills you and all your friends whispering 'Odin sends his regards. '
 
OK, so let's narrow the scope

[X] Plan "Limited Gift Giving"
-[X] Use the recording of the call with Merlin as a focus for the crown to compile the list of White Council leaks in regards to Red Court
-[X] Give the list of leaks to Merlin. Explain how you did you due diligence when preparing for an ambush as a reason you have the list.
-[X] Put your money where your mouth is and show yourself to be a friend of the Council, after extracting the promise that the information won't be leaked
-[X] Excellencies as needed to sell this: Subterfuge to explain the source of the list, Empathy and Etiquette for the introduction, etc.

Much narrower question. Not all traitors, but leaks and only those related to Red Court. Easier to sell, and even if he doesn't believe us, we could get him to promise not to tell the leaks for a time.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top