I dont see anything stating that she is in the US, or that she took a flight to the US.
I was assuming she was in Mexico, not the States.
Did I miss something?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I was assuming she was in Mexico, not the States.
Did I miss something?
- Location
- At Home
No, my proposal is a few posts above. Here: Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files) Crossover - Fantasy
Tl;dr: skip the 'figuring out' and just isolate our prey by taking her out of the plane before we fight
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
No, I was just assuming she was in the US for some reason. Seems like Broken Seeker would have a better chance of learning her recent schedule and potential whereabouts if she's relatively local, as opposed to flying across the Yucatan a couple thousand miles from Chicago.
Do recall that 20 people, each weighing 200 pounds, weighs an aggregate of 4000 pounds.
Thats well within the capacity of MHM to carry from mid-air, if Molly so wanted; just 8 successe would be enough on activating MHM. In that kinda situation you move everyone and worry about separating the goats from the sheep later.
Why?
Senior Council tier or better magical power, with the knowledge and connections of millenia. He could have had an evil spirit tracking Arianna all along, or used divination, or simply had someone watching the airplane's location at its home airport. Planes of that size are obvious things.
Not to mention that he has 12 coven disciples as lesser skinwalkers he uses as agents.
AND that travelling the NeverNever is a lot shorter than having to take a plane flight.
When he was watching the Raiths, he apparently usually wasnt in Chicago; he used minions.
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Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
There isn't even going to be a clear line between who deserves to die and who doesn't. We know the people up top are ruinous beings but there are monsters in the middle ground who aren't completely without virtue even if they are blood soaked up to their elbows. Some could have been different, some still could be different especially with our existing as an escape for vampiric hunger. At the very least their needing to die is tragic in the cases where its true.
I severely doubt we leave this with a fully clean conscience even if there are no true innocents proper. Its the cost of doing business.
Also worth recalling that the Red Court employs both humans and half-Reds who have been raised to regard them as gods.
We see some of them at Chicken Pizza in Changes.
Its not just as simple as kill everyone in her company.
He's remarkably calm considering the fact that he was basically right there when the FCF formed. Though he does seem to be in full first date mode, so maybe he was just more excited than frightened.
Technically we can stick people in our hell, RVD over to the nearest waterway, then let them out again.
People we bring in with us don't have a time limit after all.
Technically all we have to do is meet the Exact Phrasing definition of done to be in the clear.
Worth noting that the reds have a whole thing about self control. Traveling with a stable of blood thralls, like she can't go without a drink for the length of a flight or is afraid of having her supply disrupted at any point, would be a very bad look for her.
The red king himself is paranoid about anyone finding out his control had started lapsing in recent years, which should say something about how big a problem this sort of thing can be in their very cut throat internal politics.
She'll have servants around, but I'd be surprised if they were blood thralls. That's basically like asking a heroin addict to do your laundry. You're their dealer so they'll try, but don't expect to like the results.
Similar deal with mind magic. The harder you grip and the longer you keep hold the more you break them. Disposable meat requires more babysitting than it's worth for consistent "domestic use".
Lower tier vamps would rely on that sort of thing, but as a direct child of the red king and Duchess of the court she's more likely to use indoctrinated servants.
Our only option for people like that is dragging them to hell to be turn them to our point of view using our
Edit: error
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- Location
- At Home
At the end of the day, I just don't want to blow up a plane with people (with varying levels of innocence) in it just because it's more expedient to do so, that's all. Especially when DP pretty much confirmed she'd survive it anyway.
Anyway, I think the actual engagement & battle plan is still a few votes away, right?
Until then...
[x] No, you are sure the two of you can deal with Duchess Arianna Ortega and her guards
Anyway, I think the actual engagement & battle plan is still a few votes away, right?
Until then...
[x] No, you are sure the two of you can deal with Duchess Arianna Ortega and her guards
I think we should be realistic that any fight against an Ortega and her retinue involving Molly and Broken Seeker is absolutely going to completely wreck the jet and probably kill any mortal inside.
Even just gaining access mid-flight is probably going to result in a hole in the fuselage that will pose an extreme danger to any mortal inside regardless of how the fight goes.
Unless Molly uses Cyberdevil possession to reasonably safely land the plane then I think any mortal aboard is doomed either from asphyxiation, being launched out of the plane, crushed by a crash or debris or simply splattered as collateral damage.
Even just gaining access mid-flight is probably going to result in a hole in the fuselage that will pose an extreme danger to any mortal inside regardless of how the fight goes.
Unless Molly uses Cyberdevil possession to reasonably safely land the plane then I think any mortal aboard is doomed either from asphyxiation, being launched out of the plane, crushed by a crash or debris or simply splattered as collateral damage.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I'd like to issue a reminder that entering our hell necessitates meditation in a place where our favorite song is playing.
Tangentially, the most we can bring is 20, and spending 5 days straight in our hell resets our shintai.
Mechanical description of the mechanics just because:
Their is a big difference between fighting on a plane at cursing height. To fighting in mid air against two much faster fliers, while at so great a height that their is not enough air to stay awake, for over a minuet. Also if we use a rocket launcher from our hell, to blow up inside the plane she takes compounding force as the cabin amplifies the force she takes.
Thats inaccurate.
Mind-Hand Manipulation will allow you to pull an Air Force One in Iron Man 3 just fine.
And we need to HMP the plane anyway, so that the cyberdevil can wipe the cockpit flight recorder and flight data recorders.
Not to mention that learning Prince of Ruin (1 dot, 3XP) during the course of events may or may not be an option; we have 2XP banked, so we would only sustain 1XP deficit.
This is one of those occasions where I would agree that being Exalted allows Molly a latitude of action many others lack.
There's risk, but its not a "any mortals here are dead" type situation.
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JayTar
Idea briefcase
Could we get some sort of devices from our hell to grab people out of the air? I'm thinking a fleet of drones with grabbers or nets? So we split the plane open and launch everyone out, have an epic sky diving duel, and anyone who isn't a vampire gets grabbed in the air and set down safely.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Ah but if the mortals are in dieing from asphyxiation (a clear environmental hazard) then we get bonuses to trying to save them and wouldn't you know it I expect a bunch of Ramps to get in our way. That's thinking like an infernal.
Well so long as a plane owned by a Ramp miles away from help counts as a place of desolation.
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- Location
- At Home
Yeah, fair enough. There's still the rest of that quote that you're ignoring, though. We're not going to kill people just because it's convenient.
Depending on her flight path we might be able to get away with HMP-ing her plane and diverting it to the ocean or some other body of water.
Force a water landing, use MHM to pull out the people who look like they need saving, then play Jaws with Ortega with our supersonic swimming speed and ability to selectively treat water as solid enough to walk on.
We can't actually be hurt by things like pressure, so theoretically we could just telekinetically grapple her/the entire plane and go straight to the bottom. She can have fun trying to use magic while completely submerged until we get deep enough make ourselves some blood pudding.
The best part is that the bends would get her coming and going too. If she did escape somehow the act of rushing for the surface should put her in considerable pain.
The limit of 20 is only for our actual shifts between worlds. We can make multiple trips and people don't occupy a "slot" or anything like that just choosing to stick around. We're the only ones with a time limit.
Edit:
It'd also be fun if we could frame the fomor for this, maybe goad them into retaliation that opens a second front to the war.
Force a water landing, use MHM to pull out the people who look like they need saving, then play Jaws with Ortega with our supersonic swimming speed and ability to selectively treat water as solid enough to walk on.
We can't actually be hurt by things like pressure, so theoretically we could just telekinetically grapple her/the entire plane and go straight to the bottom. She can have fun trying to use magic while completely submerged until we get deep enough make ourselves some blood pudding.
The best part is that the bends would get her coming and going too. If she did escape somehow the act of rushing for the surface should put her in considerable pain.
Yeah, but we can set that up. We couldn't easily arrange to drop directly into combat, but bringing a beefy speaker to play music would let us duck in to grab our passengers pretty easily on the other end for strategic movements.
The limit of 20 is only for our actual shifts between worlds. We can make multiple trips and people don't occupy a "slot" or anything like that just choosing to stick around. We're the only ones with a time limit.
Edit:
It'd also be fun if we could frame the fomor for this, maybe goad them into retaliation that opens a second front to the war.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Given that MHM works on line of sight, shouldn't we be able to force the plane into a semi-controlled emergency landing without even attacking or boarding it? All we've got to do is use it screw with the flaps on the wings to make it descend, if everything I've seen on TV and movies is even slightly correct.
That's the only reasonable way to insure that any "innocents" on the plane have a chance for survival. It's dumb and sub-optimal, IMO, but the odds of the plane landing intact if we attack it from the air just aren't worth considering, not when Broken Seeker is going to be involved. He's too much of a douchenozzle not to take the opportunity to crash the plane for the lulz.
That's the only reasonable way to insure that any "innocents" on the plane have a chance for survival. It's dumb and sub-optimal, IMO, but the odds of the plane landing intact if we attack it from the air just aren't worth considering, not when Broken Seeker is going to be involved. He's too much of a douchenozzle not to take the opportunity to crash the plane for the lulz.
I don't see why we wouldn't just use HMP. We can have the demon perform a more controlled landing, and report back about who's inside.
If we don't see anyone who looks like a victim it can dive at max speed into the ocean/nearest mountain, and if we do we go with an actual landing.
- Location
- washington
It'd probably be stupid difficult to enter the nevernever while a plane is dive bombing right? Like downright near impossible. Not to mention stupid who the fuck knows where you'll end up in the nevernever while in the sky.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Mortal magic screws with technology, but does sorcery performed by Rhampires? Isn't it possible that plane has at least some manner of protection from incidental magic? If so, it would make sense for the Reds to use it, since it would barely take the slightest effort form a trained wizard to fry every bit of electronics it carries. A chip of paint, a sliver of rubber from one of the tires, etc., anything from that plane could serve as a suitable ritual focus to hex it. That isn't to say that any such protection could stop HMP, but it might, or it could alert those within before we're ready to engage.
And Arianna is not a simple muggle Rhampire. She's old and powerful enough that she might immediately detect HMP being used on the plane and may even be able to banish the spirit. If we're going to use HMP, it should be when it's too late to do anything about it, such as right before it lands or when the deed is already done and we're covering up evidence.
- Location
- washington
Eh there's no way they have hex proofing spirit killing stuff maybe. Also doesn't really matter much if they immediately start dive bombing.
If it comes to that I'm sure the cyber devil can add enough barrel rolls to keep her occupied.
They never show any indication of having that sort of capability in canon.
I really doubt any incidental magic protection is going to bounce a charm, and once the cyber devil has control they can't stop it from doing whatever it wants.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] No, you are sure the two of you can deal with Duchess Arianna Ortega and her guards
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Paranoid Episode: What if Arianna socials broken seeker into helping her kill us while she is still alive?