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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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BronzeTongue said:
On a tangentially related note, I'm curious about the wheel will do with invaders. It's supposed to incarnate you somewhere survivable and relevant to you, while also taking account of if the environment can support you.
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My initial understanding was that if we'd taken the Gaol option, that incarceration would be the default option.

If someone tossed an akuma-led invasion force at us, or something like the apparently Denarian-led army whose corpses carpeted the approach to Arctis Tor in Proven Guilty, anyone who died or was captured would wake up in prison.
We didnt take that option though

We probably will have to physically carry out the Coin of any Denarian who gets killed in the Brass Courts.
 
uju32 said:
The Jade Dogs in particular, for all their loyalty, dont currently have much of a defense against being ambushed on a grocery run and hit with notPresence or notAuspex for interrogation.
We dont give them more than they can bear.
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We are going to be working on Last Station right this day. @DragonParadox even asked us to give suggestions on what kind of things from the Courts we would like to incorporate into construction, now that we have said option. This is going to be subject of a vote, probably the next one. Iris has schematics for autonomous Wastes outposts, for example, and Porter wants a train body, which is not likely to be a wyrmtrain based.

If we are going to be incorporating Court designs (like Feng Shui analogs, architectural solutions, safety systems, etc), much less Court technologies (like holographic interfaces, grav tech, etc), or at least systems that are designed to eventually fit Court technologiesm we rather need to tell people living there. And we want those things, as this is a Dragon's Nest - a valuable resource we have, and the only one on Earth we have a claim for.
 
uju32 said:
My initial understanding was that if we'd taken the Gaol option, that incarceration would be the default option.

If someone tossed an akuma-led invasion force at us, or something like the apparently Denarian-led army whose corpses carpeted the approach to Arctis Tor in Proven Guilty, anyone who died or was captured would wake up in prison.
We didnt take that option though

We probably will have to physically carry out the Coin of any Denarian who gets killed in the Brass Courts.
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Yeah, but the point I'm making is that some things seem like they should be inherent to the system.

They aren't effects we paid for in the charm, so they'd be easier to get around and not necessarily something we get to choose, but still.

Our realm is a planet inspired by the thousand hells and implemented by an infernal exaltation. It's hellish enough that Heaven can't send agents in without causing us issues despite that not being in the base description either.

With the goals perk there's built in stuff for containing people and/or a defense network for your soul*, but even without that it's still a hell.

Getting killed puts even immortal spirits at their most vulnerable, and the FCF have a system for processing and handling people exactly in that state.

If a raiding party of wyldfey has members die in Kakuri I'd expect them to get caught in Emma-O's soul juicer. I don't see why that wouldn't apply here too.

Depending on how lord of the land interacts with the wheel, which is technically a natural feature of the world, we might be able to set the conditions for the reincarnation of our enemies to facilitate trapping them even if they otherwise wouldn't.

* Incidentally, we should start our own poor man's knock off of this ASAP above and beyond the stuff I mentioned in my last post. Regardless of what we can take outside there's an economy powered by 5 billion people inside our hell. It wouldn't be trivial, but establishing fortified outposts and other defensive/logistical infrastructure should be within their means.
Yog said:
we rather need to tell people living there.
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Technically speaking we don't. It's not like where we got the stuff makes a difference on a day to day level for them.

We could also just be less overt about it. No need to leave a big pile of FCF loot in a place that has regularly failed to stop raids.

We can't park a peer of say Broken Seeker here, so even improved defenses aren't going to stop a sufficiently invested raider.
 
Yog said:
We are going to be working on Last Station right this day. @DragonParadox even asked us to give suggestions on what kind of things from the Courts we would like to incorporate into construction, now that we have said option. This is going to be subject of a vote, probably the next one. Iris has schematics for autonomous Wastes outposts, for example, and Porter wants a train body, which is not likely to be a wyrmtrain based.

If we are going to be incorporating Court designs (like Feng Shui analogs, architectural solutions, safety systems, etc), much less Court technologies (like holographic interfaces, grav tech, etc), or at least systems that are designed to eventually fit Court technologiesm we rather need to tell people living there. And we want those things, as this is a Dragon's Nest - a valuable resource we have, and the only one on Earth we have a claim for.
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No, we dont.
Is it safe? Are the instructions for operating them clear and legible? Will its use put them in danger? No?
Then where we got the designs or the supplies are none of their business.

This is like saying that we need to explain how we earn money because we are providing the Jade Dogs with living expenses.

EDIT
POSTSCRIPT
Note that all that stuff you are suggesting? Probably isnt showing up here anyway this turn anyway.

We are trying to get the Dragons Nest up for basic operational status. 1 dot.
The advanced upgrades you are talking about are likely to be the stuff of Tier 2 upgrades or greater.
Dragons Nests go up to 5 dots.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
If a raiding party of wyldfey has members die in Kakuri I'd expect them to get caught in Emma-O's soul juicer. I don't see why that wouldn't apply here too.
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Im not sure if this is accurate.
I know that greater akuma, for example, can only be permakilled in Yomi Wan, regardless of the Yama King who holds their soul in hock. So while I think its possible for a YK to seize a soul after it dies, Im not sure if its automatically claimed or that they can necessarily keep them.

When Emma-O and Rangda invaded Yen-Lo's Hell and killed him, neither of them expected any dead to go to Yen Lo.
Indeed, Rangda was herding away the dead in his Hell when his power fell upon his chosen heir who proceeded to drive them out and keep them out.
 
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uju32 said:
Note that all that stuff you are suggesting? Probably isnt showing up here anyway this turn anyway.

We are trying to get the Dragons Nest up for basic operational status. 1 dot.
The advanced upgrades you are talking about are likely to be the stuff of Tier 2 upgrades or greater.
Dragons Nests go up to 5 dots.
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This is very arguable. Actual tech? Probably later additions, yes. But design principles, laying the foundations like power lines, redoing some stuff to follow Court style / technology / standards? That's the foundation level.
 
[X] All of the above

Even from a pragmatic standpoint, there's simply too much Sanctiary can offer everyone, both for their and our benefit, to not tell them.
 
uju32 said:
Im not sure if this is accurate.
I know that greater akuma, for example, can only be permakilled in Yomi Wan, regardless of the Yama King who holds their soul in hock. So while I think its possible for a YK to seize a soul after it dies, Im not sure if its automatically claimed or that they can necessarily keep them.
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Greater Akuma are a special case because their souls are fully owned by someone else and kept off site. I thinking more standard entities.

They claim souls when they get killed too close to their areas of influence (among other things) in the real world. I think it's safe to say inside their hell counts as their area of influence.


uju32 said:
When Emma-O and Rangda invaded Yen-Lo's Hell and killed him, neither of them expected any dead to go to Yen Lo.
Indeed, Rangda was herding away the dead in his Hell when his power fell upon his chosen heir who proceeded to drive them out and keep them out
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Unless they made a specific statement to this effect simply not noting something isn't proof one way or another. Not existing and being a standard property not remarkable enough to comment on would look the same.

Given that they were planning to kill that guy in the same assault it wouldn't really be relevant, because he'd be dead before he could exploit the new souls.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Thought we permanently killed a greater Akuma?
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We did, but we did it with MiM. I was talking about the hypothetical of someone taking a raiding party into our hell and getting killed by the security forces or some other local threat.

No charm backed hyper murder, but we are running a hell and do have a soul trap in the form of the wheel.

My bet would be that people who still possess their souls would get caught by it, but entities like greater Akuma who basically have off site phylacteries would walk it off.
 
Yog said:
This is very arguable. Actual tech? Probably later additions, yes. But design principles, laying the foundations like power lines, redoing some stuff to follow Court style / technology / standards? That's the foundation level.
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Most definitely not.

The Last Station project is currently at 60% done, even after we expanded the scope by deciding to add a train and shit.
We are well beyond foundations.
Citation:
DragonParadox said:
16th of October 2006 A.D.

Resolve becomes drive, bright with welding with emerald flame, shifting stone with teeth of steel, groaning hydraulic muscles that unmakes the detritus of decades. It all fits together, an ease and grace that words alone cannot contain, a joy that bubbles deep, not only to make things of use, things of worth, but things of beauty and meaning. Roughly spray-painted dogs are into lithe watchful shapes that recall the shape of bane. In eyes cast from common tiles a secret hides, cameras carefully calibrated to see and to record under the eye of cybernetic spirits, ever watchful for another incursion. No more will your people have to risk themselves as Adam did, alone to watch for threats.

Drive becomes inspiration, the same cables that carry the camera's sight can be built stronger bigger, such that the spirits can at any moment spike the current a high enough voltage to burn any man to a crisp and more. Even a vampire, ghoul or unprepared sidhe would rue the day they tried to mess with your work.

Inspiration alloys with sweat and long hours of work, more than once you get back home at nine AM and sleep the slumber of the truly exhausted, but even though the jawas are curious and your friends are a little worried about how busy you are of late neither mom nor dad say anything. Dad's a craftsman after all, he knows what it's like to work on something big.

It is not the cameras, or the electrified wiring, not even the heavy security doors that make you the most pleased of all the work that filled these days. Blue-white light shines from half a dozen monitors , maybe not the best PCs you could get but even apart from the necessities of the base the people here, your people, now have a chance to engage with the rest of the world on their terms, to work and to play, be they ghoul vampire or just mortal down on their luck. Even those who do not want to face daylight world are as free as the internet can make them.

Last Station Gains
  • Restored paint and tiles
  • Functional Plumbing and running water
  • Security System and Internet Connectivity

Progress: 3 (Previous) + 3 = 6/10 (+2 AP needed due to the decision to add improvements)
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The power lines are in.
There is Internet access and running water, and elements of a security system for remote monitoring and for attacking intruders, and heavy security doors to prevent hostile access to people sheltering here.

There's a bunch of places where the access to better raw materials is going to allow us to perform plug-in upgrades of things like computers and monitors and networking and sewage handling. Not to mention areas where we havent gotten around to yet, like the kitchen facilities or the fixed magic wards, backup power and environmental systems.

Things where specialty materials and supplies from our Hell will make shit easier.

But we are most definitely not going to be redoing the foundational shit here.
That would be like deciding halfway through a construction project that the six storey apartment building you had planned on should really be twice its previously planned height.

Thats not gonna happen unless we vote for a complete teardown and restart. And I cant see why we'd do so.
This place was planned and refurbished so far with the benefit of a superhuman Craft dice pool and Occult 5. The basics are solid. Getting access to the Brass Courts doesnt change that.

And we have zero reason to prioritize Court aesthetics anyway; Molly's vanity doesnt lean that way, and we share this place with Potter. If we were looking for an aesthetic, it would be Chicago, not Sanctuary.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Greater Akuma are a special case because their souls are fully owned by someone else and kept off site. I thinking more standard entities.

They claim souls when they get killed too close to their areas of influence (among other things) in the real world. I think it's safe to say inside their hell counts as their area of influence.
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BronzeTongue said:
Unless they made a specific statement to this effect simply not noting something isn't proof one way or another. Not existing and being a standard property not remarkable enough to comment on would look the same.

Given that they were planning to kill that guy in the same assault it wouldn't really be relevant, because he'd be dead before he could exploit the new souls.
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I know Yama Kings will try to steal souls whenever they can.The operative word being try. How often they succeed is unclear to me, even in their own Hell. Lanka for example feeds on violence, and while its denizens try to get souls to it and kill/torture them here, there is no firm indication that doing so there locks them to the Hell.

I dont really have enough data to be comfortable making a firm assertion one way or the other.
 
uju32 said:
I know Yama Kings will try to steal souls whenever they can.The operative word being try. How often they succeed is unclear to me, even in their own Hell. Lanka for example feeds on violence, and while its denizens try to get souls to it and kill/torture them here, there is no firm indication that doing so there locks them to the Hell.

I dont really have enough data to be comfortable making a firm assertion one way or the other.
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Their original sin was literally arranging their territory to ensure it kept souls it shouldn't have. I highly doubt dying gets you out of their realms, they'd be bone dry now if they did.

This is a baseline function of a hell, what differentiates it from a regular spirit world.
 
Telling it to Thomas will make sure that through his Nemesis-girlfriend our most dangerous enemy will find out.

Telling it to everyone else just adds a minor danger on top of that, basically harmless.
What should some White Court Elder do with that knowledge, if they have it?
 
In addition to Artemis just above, I want to remind people we just left Iris in the Last Station, and last news intended to install her here, I really think the Jade Dogs should now about their new resident.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Telling it to Thomas will make sure that through his Nemesis-girlfriend our most dangerous enemy will find out.

Telling it to everyone else just adds a minor danger on top of that, basically harmless.
What should some White Court Elder do with that knowledge, if they have it?
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1)We can ask Thomas to keep it in confidence, and he will do so.
Its significantly more likely that Nemesis will find out via either the Fae Courts or the White Council; Dresden reports to the Wardens and the Senior Council, and Peabody is still there.


2)It is not harmless.
A significant subset of our enemies are at best rivals and at worst mutual enemies, and do not talk to each other or otherwise engage in intelligence sharing except in extremis.

The Yama Kings are each a faction unto themselves and are at best rivals, when not actively at war.

The naagloshii are aggressively Randian in outlook. The Black Court are in their current state due to a White Court plot, the Fomor and the Red Court are occasional allies that will take opportunistic backstabs at each other, and the Denarians are semi-autonomous warlords who will betray each other when they can.

None of these factions share information with other destro factions.
Sometimes they dont even share information with their own people; Changes was the Red King and his daughter scheming against each other for much of the book.

Being careful about what you put in the public domain materially impedes their ability to plot against us, and buys us time to prepare against when they learn what they are dealing with.



3) A White Court Elder could sell that information to a Yama King, like the one who was interested enough to send a greater akuma to Chicago. Or to a Thule Society member, like the one who tried to eat an energy source bigger than her head a god.
Or a god/demigod like a Hecatean Hag.
 
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