Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Ask questions:
-[X] What about the Fallen's shadows? What would happen if one of them got loose in Sanctuary?

Risks revealing Harry's secret to Charity
-[X] What if one were to break the coins, forge a hammer heavy enough, stoke a fire high enough?
Will scare both your parents
-[X] Can you tell me what the Empyreal Chaos was or is. He Who Walks Unbowed called me his heir and I do not think it was in the mood to lie at that point
You have to speak the Title aloud, it will probably not come out in English and will definitely worry both your parents
-[X] Also, can God reach into my kingdom or is that outside his domain and could Ammorachius enter if it were invited?

Definitly all things we want to know, and we need to ask while the guy who might have answers is yet here.
 
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@DragonParadox does Sanya have a Fallen's shadow? Or, rather, is it reasonable to assume that he might still have one, based on what Molly knows about the whole process?
Sanya actually took up the Coin.
At that point whatever shadow he had merged back into the actual Fallen Angel.

Only afterwards he discarded the Coin.
He shouldn't have a shadow as far as I understand the mechanics.
 
Inner Devils Unchained on them to awaken their P
We should get that confirmed before trying it somehow.

The fluff changed but the point of the charm is to make fomor and it still makes the target a creature of darkness. I'm not sure you can become a jade if you aren't human when you die.

Both processes awakening the Po soul doesn't mean they're actually doing the same thing in terms of spiritual transformation or that they play well with each other any more than the phrase "becoming a vampire" implies commonality or compatibility between awakening as a white court vamp and transforming into a red one.
 
[X] Ask questions:
-[X] What about the Fallen's shadows? What would happen if one of them got loose in Sanctuary? What happens if one of them got loose in Creation?
-[X] What if one were to break the coins, forge a hammer heavy enough, stoke a fire high enough?
-[X] How do you give Amoracchius and other Swords travel visas? In case you ever need to retreat together with dad from hostile situation


The Fallen's shadow question is immediately relevant as it determines whether we can take Harry back in, and what to do about Lash in regards to Exorcism ritual. The second is more strategic, but still relevant. The third is, again, tactical relevant question. Asking about Theion... We should investigate first.
 
[X] Ask questions:
-[X] What about the Fallen's shadows? What would happen if one of them got loose in Sanctuary? What happens if one of them got loose in Creation?

I don't think we should ask too many of those questions.
 
Just had an odd thought; We need to make sure no one tells the Catholic Church about our Hell, whether that means not informing Father Forthill, not including it in regular reports, etc.

Not merely it's nature as a Hell, technically speaking, but rather it's mere existence. I don't want to deal with some higher up in the Church getting the bright idea to try converting the billions of new souls in the FCF to Catholicism. I doubt anyone with any amount of sense would try to force the issue, but it could cause tensions for normal Michael's dealings with them.
 
Just had an odd thought; We need to make sure no one tells the Catholic Church about our Hell, whether that means not informing Father Forthill, not including it in regular reports, etc.

Not merely it's nature as a Hell, technically speaking, but rather it's mere existence. I don't want to deal with some higher up in the Church getting the bright idea to try converting the billions of new souls in the FCF to Catholicism. I doubt anyone with any amount of sense would try to force the issue, but it could cause tensions for normal Michael's dealings with them.
At least for now.
When the masquerade eventually ends our Hell will have to play a part in it I guess.
 
And breaking me in the process, the addendum does not need to be spoken in order to be heard.
Yeah, not a good plan. Instead we should simply torment them excessively whenever they show up in our neighborhood.

We probably won't put down Nicodemus on the first encounter, but I bet if we fill his organs with Agg fire and remove at least one body part a visit he'll eventually learn to stay away.

Also a shitload of curses. Our charms offer some options, but making splendors specifically to screw them up would be fun.

The Fallen themselves probably have perfects, but the Denarians don't have the full power of an Angel. Even if the strongest of them have some way to block this sort of thing just having to do so would freak them out since splendors are ancient sorcery tier effects.

Seeing their lesser peers get hit would also be unsettling.

Our options include:

Memory-Smothering Pall (3 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of a Fascination.
The Splendor embodies the act of forgetting that a particular thing exists, such as "vampires," "laws," "the fact that Clark Kent is Superman," or "pain." It causes anyone it targets to become unable to remember that the specified thing exists. The maximum duration this forgetfulness can last (assuming it doesn't abate because the target fulfilled some condition built into the Splendor) is one day for a 1-2 dot Splendor, one week for a 3-dot Splendor, one month for a 4-dot Splendor, and one year for a 5-dot Splendor.
Imagine setting this to forgetting the supernatural in general or fallen angels specifically and tagging them with an AoE burst. If those aren't valid targets making them forget the other Denarians exist would be funny too.

The human side would be the only one afflicted, but it'd still be upsetting and difficult to deal with.

Malediction of Abandonment (3 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of a Fascination.
The Splendor strikes at the social connections that link its targets to the world. Roll Manipulation + Expression against difficulty (10 – Splendor's rating) when this curse strikes at a valid individual. They lose a number of dots of Allies, Backup, Contacts, or Mentor equal to the successes rolled, with the losses split up in whatever way the Splendor's owner desires. The lost dots return at a rate of one per story as people realize they don't know what drove them apart in the first place and come drifting back.
We have a charm that is a better version of this, but we can be more granular with the item and make it easier to apply.

Kill off all the human side trust in their fallen partner alone and then make social attacks to convince them to drop the thing.

Reputation-Burning Curse (3 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of a Fascination.
The Splendor strikes at the underpinnings of its targets' popularity and renown. Roll Charisma + Empathy against difficulty (10 – Splendor's rating) when this curse strikes at a valid individual. They lose a number of dots of Fame, Influence, or Status equal to the successes rolled, with the losses split up in whatever way the Splendor's owner desires. The lost dots return at a rate of one per story as people remember who the target is and why that once mattered.
This one would be for Nicodemus himself; the Denarians don't work together well, he's basically got to herd super powered cars to get anywhere. Temporarily turning off his influence would be entertaining.

This next one would be really spicy if it worked:

Damnation in Scarlet (6 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of a Fascination.
The Splendor transforms its target into a vampire. A Splendor must be forged or upgraded through the sundered power of a mighty vampire to have this Element. The target becomes a 14th generation Caitiff. The Splendor can only unleash this Element against a maximum of (Splendor's rating) individuals per story. During extended downtime, assume it can create no more than that number of vampires per week.
Denarians have to be pure humans. If we convert them into vampires I think there are decent odds they immediately lose their connection to the fallen.

I want them to do well. I'm scared that I'm going to mess up, but that does not mean I wish they never existed. Don't apologize for helping to bring that about." That last bit sounds suspiciously close to an order, but then your eyes are getting a little misty at the prospect of what you laid the foundations to, what you helped create.
Just to be clear, can Uriel's commentary throughout this visit be taken to mean Uriel has confirmed Molly actually created the FCF?

He hasn't really explicitly said that, though he touched on it when talking with Charity, and it'd be convenient if we could cite him as a source for our claim.
-[X] What if one were to break the coins, forge a hammer heavy enough, stoke a fire high enough?
This one we can make a good guess at.

The coins aren't prisons because they were the only or best way to contain those particular Fallen. They were chosen for the task by the devil and exist as part of the game Heaven and Hell are playing. When one of the Swords was destroyed it became something new with different, arguably looser, rules.

Destroying a coin without changing the conditions that lead to their creation in the first place would probably do the same thing.

At that point, I expect to see missionaries from the FCF venturing to Earth to convert the natives to Mollyism.
I'm not sure they'd bother. There faith doesn't seem to have a strong push to convert people, and unlike most earthly religions the covenant of the empress to come has borders to the area claimed by their goddess.

They know from Molly's own testimony that she didn't create the wider universe.
 
The Fallen themselves probably have perfects, but the Denarians don't have the full power of an Angel. Even if the strongest of them have some way to block this sort of thing just having to do so would freak them out since splendors are ancient sorcery tier effects.
O mean, even if they have perfects, mote tapping is always possible. If Primordials could be worn down, then a rebellious third circle deva certainly could be. We have a number of charms that can be resisted, but resisting which costs points of willpower for each attempt. So, barrage the coin with those repeatedly, while in our place of power.

This one we can make a good guess at.

The coins aren't prisons because they were the only or best way to contain those particular Fallen. They were chosen for the task by the devil and exist as part of the game Heaven and Hell are playing. When one of the Swords was destroyed it became something new with different, arguably looser, rules.

Destroying a coin without changing the conditions that lead to their creation in the first place would probably do the same thing.
I took the question to mean "what if we destroy the coin and its contents?". Ie what happens if / when we MiM a Fallen? Would Lucifer be allowed to retaliate? Would this harm White God (if Fallen are still in some way his subsouls / higher circle devas)?
 
Yeah, not a good plan. Instead we should simply torment them excessively whenever they show up in our neighborhood.

We probably won't put down Nicodemus on the first encounter, but I bet if we fill his organs with Agg fire and remove at least one body part a visit he'll eventually learn to stay away.

I mean if you kill him with fire Anduriel is going to need a new host, the trouble is more doing that given his defences and the fact that he is a clever SoB, but nothing you have been told precludes killing the Denarians, just attempting to take the coins out of circulation by sticking them under a rock in the middle of the Wastes.
 
[X] Ask questions:
-[X] What about the Fallen's shadows? What would happen if one of them got loose in Sanctuary?

Risks revealing Harry's secret to Charity
-[X] Can you tell me what the Empyreal Chaos was or is. He Who Walks Unbowed called me his heir and I do not think it was in the mood to lie at that point
You have to speak the Title aloud, it will probably not come out in English and will definitely worry both your parents
-[X] How do you give Amoracchius and other Swords travel visas? In case you ever need to retreat together with dad from hostile situation

I do want to ask about the Empyryal chaos to one of the very few beings who both are likely to know about it, and may be willing to talk about it.

This is our best occasion for it, we really shouldn't let it pass, having this information hang over our head has even created some weaknesses in Molly due to the simple fact that her curiosity about it is liable to make her talk when she shouldn't, learning is a way of protecting herself at that point.

Destroying a coin, we already basically got the answer with the warning right now, it will give Lucifer ammunitions to act freely, that really doesn't require a question to infer.
 
[X] Ask questions:
-[X] What about the Fallen's shadows? What would happen if one of them got loose in Sanctuary?
Risks revealing Harry's secret to Charity
-[X] Can you tell me what the Empyreal Chaos was or is. He Who Walks Unbowed called me his heir and I do not think it was in the mood to lie at that point
You have to speak the Title aloud, it will probably not come out in English and will definitely worry both your parents
-[X] How do you give Amoracchius and other Swords travel visas? In case you ever need to retreat together with dad from hostile situation
 
I mean if you kill him with fire Anduriel is going to need a new host, the trouble is more doing that given his defences and the fact that he is a clever SoB, but nothing you have been told precludes killing the Denarians, just attempting to take the coins out of circulation by sticking them under a rock in the middle of the Wastes.
Nicodemus has that major artifact that prevents him from dying by any means other than the noose while he's wearing it though.

Butcher puts it on the same level as the coins and swords themselves, so I've been assuming it's as good as it's word.

O mean, even if they have perfects, mote tapping is always possible. If Primordials could be worn down, then a rebellious third circle deva certainly could be. We have a number of charms that can be resisted, but resisting which costs points of willpower for each attempt. So, barrage the coin with those repeatedly, while in our place of power.
That requires beating them down to the point where we've already won. I'd also be concerned that if we start pulling that then the fallen would be allowed to use their power more fully. Remember that even low tier angels are Celestine entities. Their rules (and our perfects) are the only thing stopping them from frying us for the moment.
I took the question to mean "what if we destroy the coin and its contents?". Ie what happens if / when we MiM a Fallen? Would Lucifer be allowed to retaliate? Would this harm White God (if Fallen are still in some way his subsouls / higher circle devas)?
That should be made more clear in the question then.

We've gotten some rulings that imply we can eventually do this, but given how powerful angels are I don't think we'll be able to safely manage it anytime soon.


On the travel visa stuff, do we actually need to worry about it?

On this occasion Uriel came down to get it himself and it was implied that Heaven had other angels directly guarding the sword while it was on the ground before that.

If Micheal has to put the sword down to retreat with us again then he'd presumably hit the same loophole. Anyone who wants to steal it is cordially invited to run hands with Uriel and a legion of seraphs who haven't been allowed a proper fight in longer than humans have been able to write.
Travel visas seem like a stretch here anyway, since the reason they can't come in is related to a fundamental property of Molly's realm.
 
Also, it seems like a good idea to ask about nature of our Exaltation, to further Molly's knowledge IC and to understand what is Uriel willing to say, know OOC.
 
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