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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Nyarky said:
Let me help then:

[x] Yog

Broken seeker told us he would contact us tomorrow, and he spent quite a long time preparing for us, we are not fighting tomorrow, so the shaping defenses can wait.
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Where are we gonna get those 20 xp points we need, It is fucking expensive we Will probably need at least this combat turn and probably the Next turn to buy it. The other charm you want costs only 15 and with the extra we left we Will only need 13 which is much less expensive
 
ImBuda said:
The other charm you want costs only 15 and with the extra we left we Will only need 13 which is much less expensive
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Seriously, this right here.

We will probably have earned 13 XP before we even have a chance to sit down and use the CCoP Charm for anything worthwhile, considering what we have on our current schedule.

Or do people think that once we get the Crafting Charm we're suddenly going to be able to asspull wonders or splendors or whatever they're called out on demand, without needing to actually design them, find reagents, build them, etc?

We could be going into serious magical combat in less than a day, combat where Shaping Defenses could be a matter of life or death. Crafting, in the other hand, won't reasonably happen for at least a couple days at best.
 
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To do what @Yog suggested to with this calculator, since whatever game that is uses a similar system, accounting for botches doubles as appropriate and using the base dice pool/difficulty for the fight with the knight we get these numbers:

We have a ~90% chance of getting at least 1 success with EIPP, which is all we need.

Pure counterspelling has its most common results in the 3-5 success range, with a ~77% chance of at least 3, ~58% chance of at least 4, ~37% of at least 5. That's including doubles on 10s and not subtract on 1s mind.
We've rolled really well on the occasions when this has come up, but the dice have no memory.

Those percentages are basically our odds of survival against a relevant curse with the given number of successes, so the question is essentially if we think Molly's magic wielding opponents going forward can manage more than 4-5 successes when bringing the big guns out against a pissed infernal.

We have a ~11% chance of getting at least 6 successes, so anyone who can manage that is most likely going to succeed at whatever they're trying.

Those are technically legendary success levels, but they come up pretty regularly anyway and even baseline mortals can hit that on occasion in their areas of specialty. I think it's reasonable to say that the easiest way anyone has of disabling or killing Molly right now is through shaping, and that many of our future enemies are capable of meaningfully exploiting that.
 
Normally I am all for crafting and like, but in this one specific scenario I think the absolute shaping defense is more important.

It is not that I don't want crafting. I really do and think that we should get it next. I just don't think that the benefit of getting crafting now vs later (Likely very small. We probably won't have much chance to use it before our next exp vote anyway) is worth the extra vulnerability time (We are very likely to be getting into at least one high level fight between now and the next exp vote).

Saying that we have done well enough without EIPP up to now doesn't work either. Our notability has increased massively since then, so we will be facing a higher caliber of enemies, and our enemies will be more prepared.
 
Cavalar said:
Until the next arc, then? Because, I believe, BronzeTongue made very compelling speech about the difference between shaping charm and standard defence, even augmented with the splendor.
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Well, yes, until next arc, because the most likely thing tomorrow is that we prepare a plan for Ortega, then next arc we'll have an option to use AP to go kill her.

When it comes to getting 20 XP, I want to remind people that even with the trimmed down arcs, with one that we just got experience from with not the entire month passed, with 20 of the gained XP used to get our kingdom, we still got more than 20 XP to use right now. So, at this point, I am absolutely sure we will get enough to pay for the anti shaping before we really need it. We were afraid to not get the kingdom this arc, and look what happened.

I also wants to remind people that while we probably won't actually need the anti shaping during the rest of this arc, we know for a fact we will benefit from the crafting charm quite a lot, since we still have the Last station to do this turn, why, having the crafting charm is even a good source of additional XP to pay for the anti shaping later, simply by virtue of making the likely result of this action more impressive.
 
ImBuda said:
Where are we gonna get those 20 xp points we need, It is fucking expensive we Will probably need at least this combat turn and probably the Next turn to buy it. The other charm you want costs only 15 and with the extra we left we Will only need 13 which is much less expensive
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We have always gotten more than 20 XP per month-long turn.
 
Yog said:
We have always gotten more than 20 XP per month-long turn.
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And when we got afraid of getting less and kept XP in reserve to buy our kingdom at the end of this one, we still got more than 20 to use after already having 20 used or the kingdom during the arc.

So, this fear of not getting enough is without a basis at this point.

And, once again, Broken Seeker didn't say we were going to kill Ortega tomorrow, he said he would see us, given how long he took before acting against us, I see negative reasons to think the attack is tomorrow.
 
DragonParadox said:
Total XP: 6 (Unspent) + 36 (Earned this Arc) -20 (The King and the Kingdom, the Thousand and First Hell) = 22
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By the way, I think 36 XP for half a month is far too much.

This is escalating, rather than slowing down.

If you don't want Molly at maximum power by early to mid 2007 you might wanna consider the XP-gains for the future?
This half-month took well over two months IRL and got Molly a lot stronger.
 
Artemis1992 said:
By the way, I think 36 XP for half a month is far too much.

This is escalating, rather than slowing down.

If you don't want Molly at maximum power by early to mid 2007 you might wanna consider the XP-gains for the future?
This half-month took well over two months IRL and got Molly a lot stronger.
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I think it's more connected with the flow of events than time. You can't expect to foil Nemesis' plan, decimate White Court, kill the Walker, outmanoeuvre naagloshii and receive less.
 
Artemis1992 said:
By the way, I think 36 XP for half a month is far too much.

This is escalating, rather than slowing down.

If you don't want Molly at maximum power by early to mid 2007 you might wanna consider the XP-gains for the future?
This half-month took well over two months IRL and got Molly a lot stronger.
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DP could easily slow things down just by having more significant timeskips. It would not hurt to have more of a lull between major events. It's just that a lot has been happening due to the chain of events we've involved ourselves in recently, so the XP has come pouring in.
 
Goldfish said:
DP could easily slow things down just by having more significant timeskips. It would not hurt to have more of a lull between major events. It's just that a lot has been happening due to the chain of events we've involved ourselves in recently, so the XP has come pouring in.
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The more growth we have in a short time, the weirder it looks when we have timeskips without XP-gain, at least in my opinion.

I'm aware that in quests pacing and immersion always suffers a bit for the sake of the game, but still...
 
Nyarky said:
And when we got afraid of getting less and kept XP in reserve to buy our kingdom at the end of this one, we still got more than 20 to use after already having 20 used or the kingdom during the arc.

So, this fear of not getting enough is without a basis at this point.
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All this can be said about CCoP, because we will need to earn only 13 XP to purchase in the next arc.
Nyarky said:
And, once again, Broken Seeker didn't say we were going to kill Ortega tomorrow, he said he would see us, given how long he took before acting against us, I see negative reasons to think the attack is tomorrow.
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I disagree with you, because I am convinced that our Rampire hunt will occur on this turn (not tomorrow) before we will be able to spend XP on defence.
 
[X] Plan Justified Paranoia
[X] Plan Staying In Shape

Yeah...we only got through the last vampire fight by face tanking esoteric curses. Lets get the proper defense for the likely Red Vamp + Nagaloshi fight literally tomorrow.
 
Cavalar said:
I disagree with you, because I am convinced that our Rampire hunt will occur on this turn (not tomorrow) before we will be able to spend XP on defence.
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Makes no sense to me, BS took more than one month to even begin acting against us, and Ortega is not an easier target, I'm not even sure we'll have the option next turn and not later for taking care of her.

There is no reason for him to suddenly go from being patient to a fault to being so hasty we act right now.
 
Nyarky said:
I also wants to remind people that while we probably won't actually need the anti shaping during the rest of this arc, we know for a fact we will benefit from the crafting charm quite a lot, since we still have the Last station to do this turn, why, having the crafting charm is even a good source of additional XP to pay for the anti shaping later, simply by virtue of making the likely result of this action more impressive.
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The idea that we won't get into at least one major fight that anti shaping could play a role in before our next exp vote seems implausible to me.
Sure we could have a nice relaxing arc without violence. But all indications say that it is unlikely. How many of our past arcs were violence free?

It is possible that we won't end up needing a shaping defense true. But at the very minimum it is a risk. When the ante is our life the risk is worth removing.
 
Nyarky said:
also wants to remind people that while we probably won't actually need the anti shaping during the rest of this arc
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We've had shaping threats in almost every major event so far.

Holt: time magic debuffs
Fomor: Bio wizard death curse
Will of Kakuri: Leyline ritual
White Court: Outsider mystery curse

We had to lean on counterspelling for two of those. We have WoQM that Holt's no perfect attack related time magic would have been stopped by EIPP, and the leyline ritual probably would have been as well though we don't to my knowledge have a ruling on that.

These attacks are happening regularly, and getting stronger each time. Anyone who can get 4 successes on a casting roll has a ~42% chance of effecting Molly. Any more successes than that and they're significantly more likely than not to do so.

We just made ourselves significantly more interesting/profitable to attack, and we're about to go after a faction that lives rituals. It seems likely we'll see something here too.

As to the utility of the crafting charm; splendors require access to a dragon nest during the crafting process, and using one drains all the energy out of it for a time period related to how well the rolls went. I somehow doubt our elemental friend will be happy about that. It also requires resources we either don't have or have in very limited supply.

The type of crafting we can do without that sort of resource, arcana, requires making rolls at 2 week intervals. We probably can't make one that requires more than 1 cycle with our other commitments, which will likely be the case for anything more than 2 dots.

We're unlikely to benefit from it specially much before we have another buy point. Don't mistake me here, crafting is very good. It just requires breathing room we don't have right now to get started.


I don't think we're going to be hunting Ortega tomorrow, but we're probably going to be getting into prep or the initial phases inside this turn. Which involves some unknown risks on top of spending a noteworthy period of time with a creature infamous for treachery that we know has a thing for curses.
 
Nyarky said:
Makes no sense to me, BS took more than one month to even begin acting against us, and Ortega is not an easier target, I'm not even sure we'll have the option next turn and not later for taking care of her.

There is no reason for him to suddenly go from being patient to a fault to being so hasty we act right now.
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There is a reason, of course. He is limited by the time of his contract on Harry (and he used a great part of it to prepare an ambush for Molly), if he will not show results, Arianna will know something.
 
A_Somebody said:
Lets get the proper defense for the likely Red Vamp + Nagaloshi fight literally tomorrow.
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As I pointed out several times, it is extremely unlikely the fight with the Rampire is tomorrow, BS is patient, took months to study us, there is no reason to think he will abandon all prudence and attack quickly.

JayTar said:
The idea that we won't get into at least one major fight that anti shaping could play a role in before our next exp vote seems implausible to me.
Sure we could have a nice relaxing arc without violence. But all indications say that it is unlikely. How many of our past arcs were violence free?

It is possible that we won't end up needing a shaping defense true. But at the very minimum it is a risk. When the ante is our life the risk is worth removing.
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BronzeTongue said:
We've had shaping threats in almost every major event so far.
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We had shaping used against us... and we never had any real problems with our inherent defenses.

Plus, the plan for this month was:

Plan Obligations and practicing for family
-[] Attend school you have friends at school and you would like the memories of senior year and graduation even if they won't be teaching you anything worthwhile (If neither School nor getting your GED is chosen Molly will systematically skip class)
-] Restoring the Last Station: Restoration efforts have been going well and according to Adam some more of the people down in the tunnels have shown interest in their newfound wealth and comfort (6/10) [+extra AP from potion]
--] Use bonus AP
-] Chariots for the One Eye: As part of her deal to ally against the Will of Kakuri you promised Odin vehicles hit for his warriors, time to show your chops.
-[] The Bridges of the Spirit, continue your training with Brother Divsimar not in the ways of the spirit but the mind, the Bridge of Dreams
-[] A friend in need. You promised Rosie that you would help and so you will, with problems material and ethereal
--[] Talking to the family, you do not like Mrs Wilsom and the feeling is mutual, but as your experience at church yesterday showed you do not have to like someone to turn on the supernatural charm. Maybe you could work something out, or at least explain some of what her daughter is going through
-[] The Seeker Sought given that you can teleport now maybe you can find a Medicine Man of the blood to deal with the Naagloshii. Given what you know of Broken Seeker and his... people now perhaps they would be more inclined to help you deal with them. Even if you do not find any takers you can deal with him.

Among what is left, I see nothing that would ask for a fight before the end of the month, we had no signs of anything besides BS in town, and all our enemies showed up signs one arc before they acted in some way, so, no, I really don't think we are going to need a big shaping defense right this instant.

Edit:

However, we do have a good reason to use the crafting charm now, with the Last station.
 
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So about the need for anti-shaping, here's what the Walker used on Lara, on which he luckily rolled low:

DragonParadox said:
Rolls
Not posting combat rolls, but these are relevant
Lara Be Gone Discipline deals Successes x2 in Agg
Perception to see the Walker
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The discipline in question was this:
••••• •••• Mayaparisatya
This expression of Chimerstry allows the Cainite to directly alter or create real objects or creatures, although such changes are of finite duration. A vampire with this power can transform the air around a rival Kindred into fire or render a locked door insubstantial. A more harrowing use of this power enables the vampire to force an object out of existence by transforming it into nothing more than a wisp of its former reality. System: To use this power, the player must spend 10 blood points and one permanent Willpower point and roll Manipulation + Subterfuge. Difficulty for the roll is 6 for affecting inanimate objects, and the victim's Willpower rating for affecting characters. This power can affect anything within miles (kilometers) of the vampire, as long as the character is aware of the target in some way. If used with Far Fatuus, the effects are centered on the chosen location. This power can affect a number of conscious targets equal to the Kindred's Willpower per use.
When dealing with inanimate objects, the number of successes determines how drastic the alteration may be. No matter how many successes the player rolls, the duration is always a scene. This power can affect any objects of a type within the vampire's targeted area.
Successes Result
1 success Render an object harmless (swords won't cut, firearms won't shoot), create a large volume of obscuring smoke
2 successes Change an object into another object (turn candles into tarantulas, etc.)
3 successes Render the object insubstantial, make smoke solid4 successes Cause drastic changes (stone becomes highly flammable)
5 successes Cause the environment to behave illogically (gravity twists sideways, rivers stand still as hills flow upward)
6+ successes Delete any offending material objects from existence. This effect is permanent (to use this on conscious targets, follow the system described below).
When using the power on conscious targets, consult the table above for alterations (such as forcing the victim into another form or transforming her into a different substance). If using the power to negate the victim's existence, the power inflicts two levels of unsoakable aggravated damage per success. If the power doesn't kill the victim, subtract one dot of Strength and Stamina per success. The damage must be healed normally, but the lost Attributes return at the end of the scene. Victims of this power look hazy and insubstantial. Victims destroyed with this power simply vanish.
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Now, this one in particular would not have worked well on Molly.
Her Willpower is high and she has bonus-health from her Charms, so she doesn't dissapear so easily.
But it's still a case where a bad roll on our side, or a good one from the other, can delete us from existance, or make us temporarily useless.
I'd definitly prefer to have a near-certain way to Nope this kind of thing?

And the other thing is, if DP uses the Mage-mechanics for a Death Curse there's this:

The Death-Strike
As an additional option, a dying mage MIGHT be allowed a death-strike: a final act of magick that channels his remaining life force into an attack or defense more powerful than anything he could normally attempt. For this final strike, the player could get one or two additional dice for his Arete roll and employ an Effect that's one or two Ranks higher than his usual rating in the Spheres. After that point, however, he dies. Despite its name, a death-strike doesn't have to be an attack – it could be an act of self-sacrifice to defend another party, open a gate, summon a powerful entity, or perform some other heroic feat. The death of Porthos Fitz-Empress, who contained the implosion of Doissetep, provides a legendary example of the death-strike in action. It's also worth noting that the bad guys can do such things too… which is something to consider if the heroes fight an enemy to the point of his demise.
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Two additional dice on the roll and an effect far more powerful in Spheres than normal.
That's the kind of thing that could beat our resistance (it did in fact beat the White King's near-perfect magic resistance) and just because we got lucky on one resistance so far, against the Formor-Sorcerer, doesn't mean I like relying on luck in that matter.
 
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