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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Welcome them to the wider cosmos, an era of change is at hand, but they should not be fearful for it will be a fair one, for those wishing a challenge of heroism and glory, for scholars of new lore, for all better richer lives
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
 
[X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
-[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the formal releases to come, I am not perfect, nor omniscient. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
 
firefrog600 said:
I don't think anyone believes mab is irreplaceable just that she is in the short term. Because she's not gonna have anyone as competent replacing her and we sure as fuck don't want her role that sounds like hell.

I find it fairly likely mabs gonna die in the final books. Given the final books are probably some level of apocalypse.
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It's kind of foreshadowed when Mab tells Dresden to kill Molly if Mab herself dies, because Molly's not ready for what being the Winter Queen entails in terms of personality shift, and specifically this would impact Dresden's position as her Knight.

I can't remember the exact wording, but the impression I got was 'If I die she's going to go super yandere on you and not in a fun way'.

So yeah, 100% Mab's gonna die and Molly will replace her. Bet on it.
 
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drake_azathoth said:
It's kind of foreshadowed when Mab tells Dresden to kill Molly if Mab herself dies, because Molly's not ready for what being the Winter Queen entails in terms of personality shift, and specifically this would impact Dresden's position as her Knight.

I can't remember the exact wording, but the impression I got was 'If I die she's going to go super yandere on you and not in a fun way'.

So yeah, 100% Mab's gonna die and Molly will replace her. Bet on it.
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I could see it being part of one of the apocalyptic trios finales.
 
firefrog600 said:
I could see it being part of one of the apocalyptic trios finales.
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There's the bit where Ethniu implies that Mab was Nimue, IIRC, which given Harry's position of Warden of Demonreach sort of presses the idea 'all this has happened before' and Mab is speaking from personal experience. Given how Butcher rolls, I would expect Harry and Molly to cope better with it than she and Merlin did though.

There's been a big theme in recent books of Harry doing better by reaching out and communicating with people and getting help, and not making decisions like he did with the Kincaid setup where he sacrificed Molly's sanity because he didn't consider how his actions impact other people.
 
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drake_azathoth said:
There's the bit where Ethniu implies that Mab was Nimue, IIRC, which given Harry's position of Warden of Demonreach sort of presses the idea 'all this has happened before' and Mab is speaking from personal experience. Given how Butcher rolls, I would expect Harry and Molly to cope better with it than she and Merlin did though.
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fun fact when asked if merlins dead butchers statement was to the affects that death doesn't matter as much for beings like them. Because Merlin clearly does time shit so even if he has died maybe he hasn't died yet, maybe he died in the past, but hes visited the future before.
 
Yog said:
I think "if killed they experience a normal turn of the wheel and return to our kingdom after a while" wouldn't be a loophole at all. At least as long as they are our worshippers. Non-humans are (derived from) third circle demons. Humans are trickier, but we have a claim to their souls, and they are (or might be) from Exalted iteration of humanity, and so not subject to White God's jurisdiction.

And yeah, the ability to summon supernatural fighters to help them would be of a big help to White Council.
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The issue is that the "immortality" of summons in this matter is directly related to the fact that they're actually a spirit possessing ectoplasm that's pretending to be real matter using magic.

Our mortals are physically real in the same manner as a human or fey. It's notable that faeries are part spirit nevernever natives you can summon but the fact that they're partially physical means that if you kill them they stay dead rather than getting booted back to their home.

I could see their deaths causing their souls to come back to Molly because her world is a hell and she should have a claim on people born there who worship her as a goddess, but it's not clear to me if we can cheat by simply resleeving them in a new body.

It might be that much like jades only half of their souls would make it back and they'd end up with spiritual issues until they went out and dragged their other half back to hell. Might be that we clone them a new one and they're fine. Might be some third thing that won't be clear without more data.

That being the case, it seems prudent to stick to devils and war beasts as much as we can. In some places we may have incredibly brave volunteers willing to risk their eternity for us, but I'd prefer to keep those individuals closer to us rather than using them as mercenaries for geopolitical and material gain.

It's not like our demons can't do the job, or that trained attack raptors with natural armor, acid spit, and spirit driven laser turrets or whatever aren't a perfectly acceptable way to kill vampires.

Even more fun would be if we can get things with radioactive or heavily metallic biologies that can also survive on earth for the duration of a summons. Bet you that a red vampire would have a really hard time dealing with a stomach full of glow in the dark blood, and they love their mid combat snacks.
 
BronzeTongue said:
The issue is that the "immortality" of summons in this matter is directly related to the fact that they're actually a spirit possessing ectoplasm that's pretending to be real matter using magic.

Our mortals are physically real in the same manner as a human or fey. It's notable that faeries are part spirit nevernever natives you can summon but the fact that they're partially physical means that if you kill them they stay dead rather than getting booted back to their home.

I could see their deaths causing their souls to come back to Molly because her world is a hell and she should have a claim on people born there who worship her as a goddess, but it's not clear to me if we can cheat by simply resleeving them in a new body.

It might be that much like jades only half of their souls would make it back and they'd end up with spiritual issues until they went out and dragged their other half back to hell. Might be that we clone them a new one and they're fine. Might be some third thing that won't be clear without more data.

That being the case, it seems prudent to stick to devils and war beasts as much as we can. In some places we may have incredibly brave volunteers willing to risk their eternity for us, but I'd prefer to keep those individuals closer to us rather than using them as mercenaries for geopolitical and material gain.

It's not like our demons can't do the job, or that trained attack raptors with natural armor, acid spit, and spirit driven laser turrets or whatever aren't a perfectly acceptable way to kill vampires.

Even more fun would be if we can get things with radioactive or heavily metallic biologies that can also survive on earth for the duration of a summons. Bet you that a red vampire would have a really hard time dealing with a stomach full of glow in the dark blood, and they love their mid combat snacks.
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I'll note death is a plus for some of them as in they want the risk also I don't feel its fair to those who've been training to come out of our hell for a long time. Of course a majority is still fair. But, some want the risk and the change that comes with it and I don't want to deprive them of that. Also you know not everyone we bring out do we want for their combat experience. Some are administrators, doctors, engineers, advisors of many different stripes, scholars, etc etc.
 
drake_azathoth said:
It's kind of foreshadowed when Mab tells Dresden to kill Molly if Mab herself dies, because Molly's not ready for what being the Winter Queen entails in terms of personality shift
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I don't remember Mab telling Harry to kill Molly in such a situation. She does use Molly not being ready for Mab's role as one reason that Harry shouldn't kill her.
 
OctarineShrike said:
Ok. I've been thinking, what kind of message do we want to give here?
The way I see it, the message our current speech is going for is: We are a caring god in the Greek sense new to the role but looking forward to learning.
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That was what I was aiming for, yes.
DragonParadox said:
Molly is not sure what would happen if one of her worshipers died somewhere else and since it has never come up in the history of the world she cannot just roll occult for it. The devils would be fine though as long as they are not killed with highly specific and destructive weapons or spells.
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Power armored dragon men SWAT teams for our allies then, since death is not an issue.

BronzeTongue said:
The issue is that the "immortality" of summons in this matter is directly related to the fact that they're actually a spirit possessing ectoplasm that's pretending to be real matter using magic.

Our mortals are physically real in the same manner as a human or fey. It's notable that faeries are part spirit nevernever natives you can summon but the fact that they're partially physical means that if you kill them they stay dead rather than getting booted back to their home.

I could see their deaths causing their souls to come back to Molly because her world is a hell and she should have a claim on people born there who worship her as a goddess, but it's not clear to me if we can cheat by simply resleeving them in a new body.

It might be that much like jades only half of their souls would make it back and they'd end up with spiritual issues until they went out and dragged their other half back to hell. Might be that we clone them a new one and they're fine. Might be some third thing that won't be clear without more data.

That being the case, it seems prudent to stick to devils and war beasts as much as we can. In some places we may have incredibly brave volunteers willing to risk their eternity for us, but I'd prefer to keep those individuals closer to us rather than using them as mercenaries for geopolitical and material gain.

It's not like our demons can't do the job, or that trained attack raptors with natural armor, acid spit, and spirit driven laser turrets or whatever aren't a perfectly acceptable way to kill vampires.

Even more fun would be if we can get things with radioactive or heavily metallic biologies that can also survive on earth for the duration of a summons. Bet you that a red vampire would have a really hard time dealing with a stomach full of glow in the dark blood, and they love their mid combat snacks.
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Or our Exaltation remembers the rules for exalted style summoning, which provided immortality to the summoned demons, and applies those to any new summons when letting out our non-human subjects.

I mean, I am fairly sure that summoned outsiders are immortal, and they are made of matter more exotic than ectoplasm.
 
[X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
-[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tach with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Margret Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the fomral releases to come, I am not perfect, and I am not omniscient, and I am not even fully mature yet. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. I cannot promise that I won't make mistakes in the future. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
 
I got fancier with the speech. Thoughts? I'm thinking about making this my vote.

"Congratulations to you. All of you. The promised day has arrived. Your nation is now my soul. A miracle of possibilty, your efforts interacting with my power... I am very impressed with what I do know of your achievements. Your world is a paradise when compared to the world outside my soul."

"I am Molly Carpenter, and you are probably wondering... what happens now? The outside world has two definitions of god, what I'd call god with a lower case letter vs upper case. A lower case god is an immortal or long lived being of immense supernatural power. I am a god in this sense, as opposed to an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being such as the god I revere who reigns over the outside world. I find myself grappling with his second commandment. 'Thou shalt not have no other gods before me' as commonly understood, in context it was meant as a prohibition on idol worship. What does it mean when you're the idol though?"

"So. First, I want to learn more about you all that I might rule as justly as possible, that I may love you all as myself. Second, I intend to spread various translations of the bible from the outside world as soon as I can reasonably manage to satisfy my duties as a Christian. Third though... you may wonder why your world is a paradise compared to one an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god reigns over. He is particularly fond of the concept of free will. Which is why the outside world is not a utopia. We must create it if we want it. I've been leveraging my power in the outside world to shift things in a kinder direction. For those who wish to join me there and risk final death to make the world kinder, I will also begin periodically putting out calls for those who are interested in helping me with various tasks and begin disseminating knowledge that you may make your decisions accordingly. Before I go I have one final pronouncement to make. Balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis. I look forward to seeing what we can achieve together. "
 
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OctarineShrike said:
I got fancier with the speech. Thoughts? I'm thinking about making this my vote.

"Congratulations to you. All of you. The promised day has arrived. Your nation is now my soul. A miracle of possibilty, your efforts interacting with my power... I am very impressed with what I do know of your achievements. Your world is a paradise when compared to the world outside my soul."

"I am Molly Carpenter, and you are probably wondering... what happens now? The outside world has two definitions of god, what I'd call god with a lower case letter vs upper case. A lower case god is an immortal or long lived being of immense supernatural power. I am a god in this sense, as opposed to an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being such as the god I revere who reigns over the outside world. I find myself grappling with his second commandment. 'Thou shalt not have no other gods before me' as commonly understood, in context it was meant as a prohibition on idol worship. What does it mean when you're the idol though?"

"So. First, I want to learn more about you all that I might rule as justly as possible, that I may love you all as myself. Second, I intend to spread various translations of the bible from the outside world as soon as I can reasonably manage to satisfy my duties as a Christian. Third though... you may wondering why your world is a paradise compared to one an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god reigns over. He is particularly fond of the concept of free will. Which is why the outside world is not a utopia. We must create it if we want it. I've been leveraging my power in the outside world to shift things in a kinder direction. For those who wish to join me there and risk final death to make the world kinder, I will also begin periodically putting out calls for those who are interested in helping me with various tasks and begin disseminating knowledge that you may make your decisions accordingly. I look forward to seeing what we can acheive together."
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I'm kinda wondering if we really should spread the bible because all its teachings are not even what we follow and our people might take certain things too seriously. Like uh the homosexuality stuff, stuff that doesn't translate well, stuff about slaves.
 
OctarineShrike said:
I got fancier with the speech. Thoughts? I'm thinking about making this my vote.

"Congratulations to you. All of you. The promised day has arrived. Your nation is now my soul. A miracle of possibilty, your efforts interacting with my power... I am very impressed with what I do know of your achievements. Your world is a paradise when compared to the world outside my soul."

"I am Molly Carpenter, and you are probably wondering... what happens now? The outside world has two definitions of god, what I'd call god with a lower case letter vs upper case. A lower case god is an immortal or long lived being of immense supernatural power. I am a god in this sense, as opposed to an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being such as the god I revere who reigns over the outside world. I find myself grappling with his second commandment. 'Thou shalt not have no other gods before me' as commonly understood, in context it was meant as a prohibition on idol worship. What does it mean when you're the idol though?"

"So. First, I want to learn more about you all that I might rule as justly as possible, that I may love you all as myself. Second, I intend to spread various translations of the bible from the outside world as soon as I can reasonably manage to satisfy my duties as a Christian. Third though... you may wondering why your world is a paradise compared to one an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god reigns over. He is particularly fond of the concept of free will. Which is why the outside world is not a utopia. We must create it if we want it. I've been leveraging my power in the outside world to shift things in a kinder direction. For those who wish to join me there and risk final death to make the world kinder, I will also begin periodically putting out calls for those who are interested in helping me with various tasks and begin disseminating knowledge that you may make your decisions accordingly. I look forward to seeing what we can acheive together."
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I think it's better to keep things simple and nonspecific.

We don't know more than generalities about the state of the hell or it's culture right now, a simple introduction affirming our presence and care is better than injecting a whisk bunch of stuff they don't have context for right at the start.

This is really a place where we could outplay ourselves by overreaching.
 
Better to read books and stuff and be advised first, then choose a certain amount of books to bring to them on history and law both supernatural and not, then maybe move into having things like scholars and advisors move to earth on a semi permanent basis to learn and write things for people back in hell.
 
firefrog600 said:
I'm kinda wondering if we really should spread the bible because all its teachings are not even what we follow and our people might take certain things too seriously. Like uh the homosexuality stuff, stuff that doesn't translate well, stuff about slaves.
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That's a fair point. Any attempt to do missionary work here needs to be balanced with our preferred interpretations.

BronzeTongue said:
I think it's better to keep things simple and nonspecific.

We don't know more than generalities about the state of the hell or it's culture right now, a simple introduction affirming our presence and care is better than injecting a whisk bunch of stuff they don't have context for right at the start.

This is really a place where we could outplay ourselves by overreaching.
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Ok then. That's why I haven't made this my vote yet.
 
Also the bibles not even fully accurate to dresden files we've gotten word of god from Jim that the White God does not care at all whether you worship him or not. Also that the beings don't change but the ways we see them giving certain parables such as non christian things being holy or only seeing part of the elephant which is God.
 
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the elephant thing was if you learned what an elephant was by looking at just its leg it would be an elephant but you only see that one part.
 
firefrog600 said:
I'm kinda wondering if we really should spread the bible because all its teachings are not even what we follow and our people might take certain things too seriously. Like uh the homosexuality stuff, stuff that doesn't translate well, stuff about slaves.
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Let's avoid spreading the Bible besides Molly is Catholic the bible isn't as important to them so they don't tie themselves up in knots about it.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I think it's better to keep things simple and nonspecific.

We don't know more than generalities about the state of the hell or it's culture right now, a simple introduction affirming our presence and care is better than injecting a whisk bunch of stuff they don't have context for right at the start.

This is really a place where we could outplay ourselves by overreaching.
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Agreed. This is a greeting, nothing more. Everything else should wait until we are briefed, have time to process, and our friends are taken care of.
 
Winning vote seems clear. Only the stunt is differing between using the filull name or not.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Aug 13, 2023 at 12:20 PM, finished with 234 posts and 19 votes.
  • [X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
    -[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
    -[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the formal releases to come, I am not perfect, nor omniscient. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
    [X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
    -[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
    -[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tach with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Margret Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the fomral releases to come, I am not perfect, and I am not omniscient, and I am not even fully mature yet. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. I cannot promise that I won't make mistakes in the future. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
    [X] Welcome them to the wider cosmos, an era of change is at hand, but they should not be fearful for it will be a fair one, for those wishing a challenge of heroism and glory, for scholars of new lore, for all better richer lives
    -[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
    [X] Welcome them to the wider cosmos, an era of change is at hand, but they should not be fearful for it will be a fair one, for those wishing a challenge of heroism and glory, for scholars of new lore, for all better richer lives
    -[X]Leadership excellency
    [X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
    -[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
    [X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
    -[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
    -[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for an age, and also just a few second, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Like you I am both ancient beyond reckoning, yet I am also newly born, as you are. Our path will be the one we forge into the unknown lands, of the future together. And together, we will dance in and out of ten billion years until the stars themselves grow cold and weary, and our thoughts turn again to the beginning.
    [X]Congratulate them on their accomplishment in creating a civilization unparalleled. Unfortunately many other worlds outside of this one are not so fortunate, but we are in a unique position of being able to help them.
    -[X]Leadership excellency
    -[X]Lord of the land to chill the air around us and moisture to wet us.
    -[X][Stunt] You beam "Congratulations and thank you! You all deserve my personal thanks for helping to make the 5-fold court of fate the great and thriving civilization it is today. Each and every one of you has played your own part and this realm would be poorer without you." You can feel the serenity in your words and know them to be true to the to the depth of your soul eh kingdom whatever. Your Expression turns sad as you look at your friends "Unfortunately many other worlds outside of this one are not so fortunate, but we are in a unique position of being able to help them. I look forward to your support in the future and know that you will excel all expectations like you always have."
    [X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
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DragonParadox said:
I'm going to leave this up, partially because there still seems to be conversation ongoing, but also since I need to handle some things in the background of your hell now that you guys decided on it.
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Yes now there is an entire world that needs gaps of world building filled in. Yog did a great job, but worlds are big.
 
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