@Mithrill Sure, I'll add a clause to the Seeking vote that Sol will incorporate any arguments posted in the thread that he thinks will help, and link to yours.
 
I am too tired for thinking. So I'll just put some random vote as a placeholder for now.

Edit: I've got my own idea. Maybe I should try it.

[X] Seek the World - Dungeon Master Role
 
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[X] The Con Is On

No need for an explanation. Gaslight, Girl Boss, Gate keep all these other losers from preventing our divinely mandated right to have awesome powers.

It's for their own good really.

[X] Idea: The High Priestess - Keeper of Secrets
*Theme: Custodian - The High Priestess is the matron of mystery, the connection between the supernatural and the normal and it's deeper, hidden sides are something that are intrinsically known to her.
*Theme: WIthdrawn Involvement - The High Priestess knowns that the benefit of knowing what everything does is that you get to get to act at your own leisure, at the right time.
*Power: Mystic - Secrets come to you like moths attracted to an open flame, only to be consumed and grow the fire. By mere proximity hidden knowledge starts to stream into your mind, at first personal details about a person and then with time and advancement the secrets of the world, the Metaphysicsist, maybe even the Educator will begin to be known to you. After all what is someone once you know their secrets?
Just another pawn.
People will seek you out for your secrets, because gossip is hotter than tea.
*Power: The Link - You are the bridge between the white pillar of Establishment and the black pillar of Strength. You understand that you can only be whole once the binary becomes the duality of whole. You can form connections between people, ideas, concepts with you as the chain holding them together. Two lovers only stay together because you are there to advice them, the sun and the moon give the earth day and night because you are on it, etc.
*Limitation: Je n'ai pas le temps - You are in the know and people seek you out, the other nincompoops in the class are your sycophants and they must be ones one worth your time, not the other way around. As such, you have a tendency to be relatively impassive and must really get off your ass if you want something done the right way. As such you aren't really the really the nuclear go-getter, but that's alright you have other people for that.
*Limitation: Hidden Hand - People like you because know more than them, so it only makes sense that actively telling them the information you would know would only be detrimental. If the world was build on fair and clear communication than it would really be bad. The more you reveal about what you know to others, the weaker you actually get in terms of your power.

*Solomon already has the power of the Mystic, this only plays into his strengths and lets him be even more of a pillow princess. This would play into the Rihaku suggested narrative of Great Teacher or maybe even Sol Bad Guy.

More importantly, it lets us explore the world more in depth! I heard that in immersion you guys didn't get to do that and I like lore, so I don't want to miss out on it here.

*Feat Examples: Find out what the secret of what would motivate the Fool into what would make him into a typical isekai protagonist and link that to him through you. Easy familiar get.


[X] Idea: Judgement - Judge Dredd
*Theme: Judge, Jury, Executioner? - Judgement often suggests introspection and self-assessment of your past and current behavior and then application of such inner values and beliefs to the rest of the world.
*Theme: The Truth can not be hidden - You can only make lawful judgements of the indicted if you know the truth and nothing but the truth, as such why would it not be part of the theme for you uncover it?
*Power:
Law-Maker - Create edicts, laws, stipulations. The masses have no choice but to follow them, lest they want to incur the punishment deserving of the crime and there is no worse crime then blasphemy against the Codex and it's holy creator. At first, say that no one except the law giver can eat the Coffee Jello. It's an incredibly strong power to start off only limited well, by the limitation.
*Power: No Lie Told - A judgement made with lack of information or worse, misinformation of falsification is no judgement at all. Some would rightly say it's no worse than the lie that it was founded on. As such as your role as divine Jury it is within your purview to peer through the falsehoods of the world and see the reality hidden beneath it. At first understand as people lie to you directly and then develop it to understand the deeper ambient lies of the world and beyond.
*Limitation: Someone's gotta follow the rules - At the end of the day, the only real limitation is that the rules and precedents you make for punishments for breaking those rules got to happen even if you like it or not, you got to think about all potential ramification of anything you put into a law if you don't want it to be used for evil deeds, or worse...
Against you.
*Limitation: Who Follows the Law in a lawless place? (To be honest as a stipulation I wonder if this limitation is too cringe, I'm on the fence about it but I'm fine about removing it to be entirely honest. Thought I'd check opinions anyways.) - You can only be a judge to constituents that recognize as you such. Simply put, you only need to be recognized once but you still have to be accepted by someone you're trying to impact a law upon that you are the law-giver. No speedrunning capital punishment to the Metaphysicist sadly. Though this works through already established social and power structures.
*This again lets us gain that juicy juicy lore (can you tell I really want it?) and it kinda gives Solomon a catalyst for all his eldritch knowledge to make the world into the better place. After all what is his namesake best known for if not for being the Judge King?
*Feat Examples: If you are a Supreme Justice of the United States you basically rule the country.




[X] Seek the World - Dungeon Master Role

I just like the JRPG villain role more than magic man, sorry.
 
[ ] Idea: [The Wheel - An Endless Procession]

The Wheel was one of the first symbols of humanity's advancement, and an advent of change and new eras. Progress does not stop, so the wheel will not either, and your development shall not cease, as you tread forward on either well worn routes or pave new paths for the rest to follow.

From Here to There and Back Again - What goes around, comes around, it is simple fact. Every decision made has its consequences. All things must be balanced, and all debts paid back with interest. For every good stroke of fortune expect the opposite later, but for each good deed expect to be rewarded, and vice versa. Once your fate falls upon you either allow it to descend, be it suffering your karma or accepting your reward, alternatively spin with great force, redirecting it with a turn whilst you spit it back out at whatever you wish. Of course, you could always just outrun your destiny, leaving your calamity to crash upon whoever is left in your wake. No matter where you spin, all things return eventually, one way or another.

Progress Paved and Roads Newly Made - As you spin you may find many trails and roads, a chart of progress left behind by those before you. To follow them is a matter of ease, your advancement would be quick and your growth magnitudes greater than your predecessor. But sometimes the paths do not fit your goal, and won't take you to the destination you had in mind. To this end, you must forge your own road through adversity, leaving behind a route that others could follow. But not all will be able to follow you to your goal, be careful you don't lay down a road to their graves.

The Turns Unceasing - You are change incarnate, and a wheel must always spin. You may quicken or slow, but you may not ever stop. Your progress cannot stagnate, but it can always go backwards instead. A Wheel must turn, but it can always spin in place, with no real change made even as its movements continue unceasingly. Advance as a lone wheel spinning to your ends, choose to make and inspire new ways for all those after you, or care not for what you trample along the way, and what violence is left behind. But wheels work best as part of a greater whole too. Become a cog and gear in another's machinations, turning as they desire to fuel their own advancement. Or become a vehicle for others to advance with, and ease their way forward. Whatever happens, you must never become still.
 
We should avoid proposing too many abilities that are conceptual or exotic. It will already be hard enough to make plans, but if we have to take into account the rapid growth and overwhelming strength of @Pyruge's Tower alongside the "linking" of Questionable's High Priestess plus the the arbitrary laws of Judgement plus 18 other relatively complicated conceptual powers, then the barrier to entry for making any sort of decision will be extremely high and the quest will bleed users fast.

This is somewhat less of a problem for The World - Dungeon Master since it's assumed he's stronger than everyone and doesn't have to worry about the details quite as much, but most roles will easily be consumed by decision paralysis if we have to ponder 21 different fate-based thematic powersets every time we interact with the class. Solomon can do it for us, it is his specialty, but that just offloads the work onto Birdsie and removes our decision making apparatus.

Conversely, dealing with someone that has super strength is relatively simple and predictable for us actual players.

For that reason I think the Tower should be limited to one expression that is NOT dependent on the identity of the user (probably Tinker or Shaker - Electrokinesis), and the same with Death (probably super-speed or super-Prowess). Otherwise Birdsie still has to create the powerset for both, and we won't know what those powersets are until he spends wordcount to reveal them.
 
We should avoid proposing too many abilities that are conceptual or exotic. It will already be hard enough to make plans, but if we have to take into account the rapid growth and overwhelming strength of @Pyruge's Tower alongside the "linking" of Questionable's High Priestess

In defence of the option, if we had either Judgement or High Priestess we could pretty easily control the entire class.
 
Class Idea

The Upright Smiling Sun- Hero of Innocence

The Arcana of innocence and honesty, the wielder of this Arcana is expected to be upbeat and wear his heart on his sleeve. He is the source of light for everyone, unchanging despite the challenges laid in front of him.

Skillset

Sunray Bulwark- The sun warms and protects everyone from the dark. This shield and armor is not only sturdy but those who witness will feel a sense of calm and peace. The dawn has arrived.

Enhanced Vitality- The sun in order to do it's task the sun must possess boundless vitality, never losing as long as you're willing to stand up and fight.

Shining Charisma- The people will feel more at ease with you at their side, your confidence will become infectious as long you keep holding it.

Drawback

Straight Forward- That power is simple but it is obvious how they are meant to be used.

The Reverse Laughing Sun- Champion of Arrogance
-That joyful unflinching confidence can prove to be your downfall. Shine too much and you'll blind you and others from seeing reality as it is. Believe in yourself too much, you might be felled by what is not in front of you.



The Upright Moon- Wary Wanderer

The Arcana of reflection and insight. Wielders of this arcana are expected to recognize what they do and don't know and navigate their and other's way throughout the dusk

Skillset-

Silent Night- You're mostly silent and observant, people are likely to less notice you unless they know what they are looking for.

Insight of the Night- Nobody truly knows everything that lies in the dark, not even you but you have navigated this uncertainty too many times that you call it your friend.

Discernment- The ability to separate the truth from falsehoods, to lift the veil used to cover by others and reveal what's inside.

Drawbacks

Fragility- While the holders of Moon Arcana hold a variety of tricks they are weak to straight forward attacks.

Reversed Moon- Delusional Nightwatch
-That darkness you always lived is always uncertain, don't fall to how you learned or have known your will remain lacking despite those gained knowledge and wisdom. Delude yourself and you might yourself in the face of unfathomable power.
 
It's pretty important to make every card somewhat powerful so that they are all wanted even if they do different things... though I guess that is pretty obvious. :)
 
We know who this one's for.

[] Idea [The Chariot- Ride to Victory]

The Chariot is a role defined by the determination and drive to Succeed. Inspire others to follow in your charge, and grow stronger with each victory.

Lead the Charge- You lead by example. Inspire your ally's with but a fraction of your own determination by your very presence. For one who truly embodies the Chariot, this is not a modest sum. Gain a penchant for tactics, and a natural charisma for commanding during combat.

The March of Victory- Each victory will empower you, supernaturally enhancing your willpower and filling your body with strength. The effects of Lead the Charge and Steel Will are enhanced as well. Even small victories count to this, though the difficulty of the challenge and magnitude of effort involved are factors for how much you will be enhanced.

Steel Will- Gain enhanced durability dependent on willpower. The Chariot fights through the pain even when all hope seems lost.

Drawback: Never Falter- Every defeat, big or small, will drain from you the same power an equivalent victory would grant. You cannot let yourself fail, grab victory from the jaws of death or be weakened in your failure.
 
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@WHISPER It's fine to make cards powerful, we should also just make them clearly defined and understandable - Most cards should be "This person's a Blaster" rather than "this person's a Trump who can manifest any powerset depending on his personality." The latter offloads the actual power definition onto Birdsie and is hard to plan around because we won't know what they can actually do.
 
@WHISPER It's fine to make cards powerful, we should also just make them clearly defined and understandable - Most cards should be "This person's a Blaster" rather than "this person's a Trump who can manifest any powerset depending on his personality." The latter offloads the actual power definition onto Birdsie and is hard to plan around because we won't know what they can actually do.
Yeah your right I was actually agreeing with you, too many "restriction" type conceptual abilities etc. aren't gonna be fun.

I was more so trying to remind people to not make cards Sol will never be, like the Sun too weak so that they are wanted making the chances better for less fighting for the cards we actually want.
 
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[] Idea: [The Devil - Tempter of Hell]

Dealmaker: You have the ability to negotiate deals with other individuals. The terms of these deals can be of any nature, as long as they do not contradict each other. Each deal can have one of two possible outcomes: it can either be executed or not. In the event that a deal is not fulfilled, you have the option to impose pre-agreed sanctions on the other party involved. In order for a deal to be accepted, the other party must express their consent. However, it is not necessary for them to fully understand the meaning of the deal or the potential sanctions. Their internal consent is not relevant; what matters are their actions that indicate consent, such as signing a document, giving verbal agreement, shaking hands, or nodding. It is possible to coerce someone into a deal through the threat of violence, for instance. Non-physical consequences can also be designated as sanctions for non-compliance with the terms of the agreement. For example, you might stipulate the loss of half of the target's physical strength or describe the sanction as "something valuable" to take initially, with the specific definition of "valuable" to be determined later.

Dealbreaker: You possess an extraordinary talent for discerning people's desires and persuading them to enter into agreements with you. The art of choosing the right words, understanding the nuances of intonation, and timing your propositions comes naturally to you. Additionally, you have a keen intuition for identifying loopholes, exploiting rule-breaking opportunities, and employing clever strategies, not just limited to negotiating deals. In your interactions, you effortlessly navigate the intricacies of human nature, effortlessly guiding conversations towards mutually (or not) beneficial outcomes. Your ability to tap into the unspoken desires and motivations of others gives you a distinct advantage in securing favorable agreements.

Tell No Lies: You possess an inherent inability to outright lie or distort facts in blatant ways, but you still have the capacity to employ tactics such as remaining silent, withholding information, carefully choosing your words, and manipulating conversations in other ways. Direct falsehoods are almost beyond your capabilities. This limitation is both a subconscious instinct that prevents you from lying and a conscious understanding that if you were to straight up lie to someone with whom you have made a deal, they would be partially or entirely released from their obligations. If you are caught in a lie, the other party may demand retribution equal to the magnitude of the falsehood. This is akin to sanctions for breaking the terms of an agreement, but directed towards you.​
 
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@WHISPER It's fine to make cards powerful, we should also just make them clearly defined and understandable - Most cards should be "This person's a Blaster" rather than "this person's a Trump who can manifest any powerset depending on his personality." The latter offloads the actual power definition onto Birdsie and is hard to plan around because we won't know what they can actually do.

I think that if we get Solomon a social manipulation tarot having all these powerful ability sets going around is actually a benefit to us, but that is probably bad argumentation based on what I feel like should win so I understand why it might not be valid.
 
I think that if we get Solomon a social manipulation tarot having all these powerful ability sets going around is actually a benefit to us, but that is probably bad argumentation based on what I feel like should win so I understand why it might not be valid.

If we put too many manipulation focused or esoteric cards they're more likely to be able to resist Sol manipulation. Even with that argument in mind it's better to give Big Dumb Brute powers to people, since it makes it easier to direct their power.
 
Well I'm all team wizard baby :D

Who cares for technically perfect compatability see you never Hermit! :V
 
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Something 'stupid brute forcy' you're telling me?

[] Idea: [The Strength - Unyielding Lion]

Unstoppable Force: You possess the remarkable ability to exert whatever level of physical effort you deem necessary at the moment. Should the need arise to lift a mountain, you will discover an extraordinary reservoir of strength within yourself to accomplish this task. It also makes it possible to apply force without need for suitable leverage or fulcrum. It mostly acts consciously and requires volitional action in order to work.

Immovable Object: You possess an extraordinary ability to defy the physical forces that typically affect you. For instance, you can disregard gravity and effortlessly soar through the air or descend in unconventional ways. Additionally, you can defy the resistance of seemingly indestructible materials, effortlessly tearing them apart without regard for their durability. This exceptional power may also extend to the objects you interact with for some degree, making them immovable too. It passively protects you from harm and more dependent on your unconscious.

Bleeding Lionheart: The potency and effectiveness of your abilities are intricately tied to your willpower, your desires, intentions, and the conviction of necessity. When you feel uncertain, misguided, or indecisive, your strength wanes, leaving you vulnerable in rare instances. If someone manages to shatter your will, they will also break your physical form. For example, you might struggle to muster the strength to harm an innocent child.​
 
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Seems like a role that many classmates will probely want.
But not many people would understand, how fickle this power really is. Because its kinda mind over the matter deal, but human willpower and determination still have limits, they still can be broken. For example, if they are given an impossible choice between two evils they don't like, then this will weaken them. If someone with heroic inclinations fails to save a person and blames themself for it, then their strength in some aspect or situations will also suffer. Inner demons are kryptonite for the Strength bearer in this case.​
 
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But not many people would understand, how fickle this power really is. Because its kinda mind over the matter deal, but human willpower and determination still have limits, they still can be broken.
Unless you are an absurdly selfish asshole that doesn't care about anyone and only wants to achieve their goals, then the card is broken because the weakness would basically never have affect.

Though I don't think any of the people of the class are like that (including the bully/s) so whatever.
 
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You are wrong. All human beings have some kind of insecurities or doubts. Even a complete psychopath can hurt thier ego if you know what and how to say/do. Even an absolute monster can be forced to make choices that are impossible for them, causing indecision and doubt. For example, if they want two things very badly, but can only get one. At this point, greed will reveal their indecision and make them vulnerable for a few moments. Or make them lose in not physical sense - hurt their willpower, self-image, determination and confidence in the chosen course.​

[] Idea [Eight of Pentacles - Star Pupil]

Do as I Do: You possess the remarkable ability to flawlessly recall and replicate the physical actions and skills of others. At any given moment, you can effortlessly remember these actions in vivid detail, distinguishing between the movements of different individuals and recognizing specific patterns with utmost precision. Furthermore, you have the capacity to perfectly imitate the memorized actions, making slight adjustments to suit your own body.

Think as I Think: You possess an extraordinary ability to effortlessly recall and replicate the speech patterns of individuals you have conversed with in the past. Not only can you accurately comprehend the true meaning behind their words, but you can also adapt your own thought patterns to mirror the cognitive processes and skills of others. Moreover, these replicated thought patterns will be adjusted to align with your own brain and personality to some degree. This remarkable power enables you to learn languages on the go, adopt the linguistic techniques of others, and much more.

Practice and More Practice: Your ability to recall the actions and thoughts of others is flawlessly accurate. However, your aptitude for replicating and utilizing them is not as strong. With time, the ability to effectively apply what you have learned to your own body diminishes for specific skill. The key to retaining this knowledge as a skill lies in consistent practice, ideally starting as soon as you acquire the information and continuing it regularly. Eventually, you will reach a point where you can flawlessly reproduce someone else's skill at any given moment, or even surpassing the physical limitations of your own body for that specific ability. However, the most challenging aspect is finding a skill and mental pattern that allows your numerous abilities to harmonize and synergize in the most optimal way. This is likely something you will need to discover and develop on your own.​
 
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You are wrong. All human beings have some kind of insecurities or doubts. Even a complete psychopath can hurt thier ego if you know what and how to say/do. Even an absolute monster can be forced to make choices that are impossible for them, causing indecision and doubt. For example, if they want two things very badly, but can only get one. At this point, greed will reveal their indecision and make them vulnerable for a few moments. Or make them lose in not physical sense - hurt their willpower, self-image, determination and confidence in the chosen course.
That's true but you "forget" that they would have Strengh so why should they feel insecure when they can basically destroy everything amoung other things?

If a psychopath had Strengh they literally wouldn't have their ego hurt because they would know that Strengh works as long as they keep feeting their own ego.

I feel any moments where the weakness works would be very few in that scenario.

All im trying to say is that the weakness seems to be more tailored to "normal" and Heroic people.

And not insanly determined psychos who would run offer a 9 year old girl in a heartbeat to achieve their goal
 
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And not insanly determined psychos who would run offer a 9 year old girl in a heartbeat to achieve their goal
It doesn't mean they have infinite willpower. They may still experience an existential crisis, doubt, boredom and be indecisive. Morality and feelings is not weakness. And a heartless person is not strong in spirit, but rather the opposite pretty often. Yes, they may have few weak spots to hurt their egos. But this does not mean that they have enough determination to pursue their goals. Why do it when you are the strongest? Why not just forget and let your subconscious desires guide you, why set goals and try to achive them? In addition, a person with a combination of such strength and attitude to the world at some point can become easily offended, because something did not go the way they wanted. It also harder to grasp concept of necessity for them.​
 
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But this does not mean that they have enough determination to pursue their goals. Why do it when you are the strongest?
Who says that they goal has to end with just having strengh/power? Maybe they want to conquer the universe? Or they simpy want to fight and kill people again and again.

I get your point but being heartless or evil doesn't mean that sombody must be less determined or have no goals beyond being the "strongest".

The "psycho" scenario itself is selective but that doesn't mean that your even more selective motivation is why a heartless/psychopathic person would have a weak will.
 
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