Well... strong enough to maybe deter it. -3 is no joke, but you do not think your least god is actually a match for the lesser god with a hell of a lot more experience. Still the plan is still workable for what it is as long as you can convince everyone.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Well... strong enough to maybe deter it. -3 is no joke, but you do not think your least god is actually a match for the lesser god with a hell of a lot more experience. Still the plan is still workable for what it is as long as you can convince everyone.
[X] Plan Court in the Making
Lets do it, sounds fun.
Lets do it, sounds fun.
This is late.
My apologies.
So I'll have to take your word for it.
GMO organisms remain incredibly controversial across large sections of the world despite being pretty backend innovations. RNA vaccines attracted remarkable opposition in the middle of a global pandemic.
Technology is not uniform, and is driven by need and resource availability. There were New World civilizations with vastly better city sanitation and planning systems and still used obsidian weaponry while the contemporary Europeans who were horrible at sanitation still had metal weapons. There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that parallel societies won't necessarily come up with the same solutions.
Especially if magic is in play, because it allows shortcuts.
Like I pointed out earlier, the Fomorians demonstrate genetic engineering, human bioware and energy weapons in this setting. But they have no aircraft, which meant they got fucked by National Guard helicopers while in retreat in canon after their other munitions were depleted.
2)Your second statement isnt true either.
It relies on a model of physics that is straight up canonically and textually demonstrated to be untrue.
Its outright stated that there are sections of the NeverNever where a lot of mundane physics does not work, even though sapient creatures and humans can fight there without difficulty. Where even combustion might not work.
Which is why human wizards dont rely on firearms there.
3) See 1.
Chicago Synthetics is not a reference. It's a cover business that is designed to give us a (thin) veneer of legal protection for our initial moneymaking schemes. It isnt designed to be any sort of resume buffer or represent experience in the formal field of material science. In fact its lack of any bona fides makes it an an active liability on the resume of anyone hoping to be taken seriously.
We've been aware of fullerenes and graphene for decades, have made them in the lab, and have long theorized uses for them. Actually making them safely and economically is a very different matter. John B Goodenough's work on lithium ion batteries date back to 1980. It took decades to commercialize.
And both versions are characterized by stasis. The societies may have advanced in the past, but they have all stalled out by the times the games are set in.
Neither WoD nor Exalted has any themes of technological uplift as an ongoing element in the setting; M20 in particular is explicitly post-apocalyptic in the wake of the Avatar Storm.
So is Exalted, for that matter.
The Technocracy explicitly considers its advanced technology to be magick anyway.
===
This is an urban fantasy set on DF Earth.
Dresdenverse Earth is essentially a duplicate of RL Earth in the early 21st century. And uplift is not a primarily technological process, its a political and economic one. 2006 Earth had the resources and tech to solve almost all its problems; it just lacked the political will to do so. People werent starving in North Korea or Yemen because there was a worldwide shortage of food. We had the tech to push fission and renewables much earlier to reduce fossil fuel dependence. We could have stopped exploiting developing countries.
We didnt because politics.
That isnt something changed by waving shiny new tech around when, for example, a bunch of US states benefit from fossil fuel mining and have the political votes in the US Senate to attempt to keep it viable in the face of solar and wind. That isnt going to prevent the Chinese government from expanding a surveillance state, or US political parties from using computing advancements attempting to restrict access to voting rights by gerrymandering better.
And I doubt anyone here is qualified to negotiate the....fraught political and social arguments of real world Earth. From racism and neocolonialist economics to things like the Israeli-Palestinean Problem. Or, if we're just sticking in the US, the decaying towns and cities of the Rust Belt, systemic racism and its economic impacts on entire populations(Look up tours of Jackson, Mississippi on Youtube. I dare you.)
Nevermind the optics of the 18 year old blonde American girl telling the billion plus people of subsaharan Africa, or the 3 billion of Asia their business.
These are inflammatory topics, and too close to RL situations to be handled with any detachment.
I dont want that.I didnt start participating here to play that.I may be reaching, but I doubt many other players, or the QM, do either. Id rather keep your technological uplift ambitions, and all the fraught political and economic implications thereof, out of my urban fantasy and concentrate on the notLovecraftian outer gods and supernatural creatures of the setting.
They are a much more relaxing topic to deal with.
My apologies.
I dont have the knowledgebase to confirm or dispute this either way.
So I'll have to take your word for it.
I'm not sure why you expect this to make a difference.
GMO organisms remain incredibly controversial across large sections of the world despite being pretty backend innovations. RNA vaccines attracted remarkable opposition in the middle of a global pandemic.
1)No it's not.
Technology is not uniform, and is driven by need and resource availability. There were New World civilizations with vastly better city sanitation and planning systems and still used obsidian weaponry while the contemporary Europeans who were horrible at sanitation still had metal weapons. There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that parallel societies won't necessarily come up with the same solutions.
Especially if magic is in play, because it allows shortcuts.
Like I pointed out earlier, the Fomorians demonstrate genetic engineering, human bioware and energy weapons in this setting. But they have no aircraft, which meant they got fucked by National Guard helicopers while in retreat in canon after their other munitions were depleted.
2)Your second statement isnt true either.
It relies on a model of physics that is straight up canonically and textually demonstrated to be untrue.
Its outright stated that there are sections of the NeverNever where a lot of mundane physics does not work, even though sapient creatures and humans can fight there without difficulty. Where even combustion might not work.
Which is why human wizards dont rely on firearms there.
3) See 1.
Chicago Synthetics is not a reference. It's a cover business that is designed to give us a (thin) veneer of legal protection for our initial moneymaking schemes. It isnt designed to be any sort of resume buffer or represent experience in the formal field of material science. In fact its lack of any bona fides makes it an an active liability on the resume of anyone hoping to be taken seriously.
I am confident in saying this is not true.
We've been aware of fullerenes and graphene for decades, have made them in the lab, and have long theorized uses for them. Actually making them safely and economically is a very different matter. John B Goodenough's work on lithium ion batteries date back to 1980. It took decades to commercialize.
I was a participant on Alchemical Quest for several years on this board and SB. I like Autobot just fine, and I'm quite familiar with his WoD version as well.
And both versions are characterized by stasis. The societies may have advanced in the past, but they have all stalled out by the times the games are set in.
Neither WoD nor Exalted has any themes of technological uplift as an ongoing element in the setting; M20 in particular is explicitly post-apocalyptic in the wake of the Avatar Storm.
So is Exalted, for that matter.
The Technocracy explicitly considers its advanced technology to be magick anyway.
===
This is an urban fantasy set on DF Earth.
Dresdenverse Earth is essentially a duplicate of RL Earth in the early 21st century. And uplift is not a primarily technological process, its a political and economic one. 2006 Earth had the resources and tech to solve almost all its problems; it just lacked the political will to do so. People werent starving in North Korea or Yemen because there was a worldwide shortage of food. We had the tech to push fission and renewables much earlier to reduce fossil fuel dependence. We could have stopped exploiting developing countries.
We didnt because politics.
That isnt something changed by waving shiny new tech around when, for example, a bunch of US states benefit from fossil fuel mining and have the political votes in the US Senate to attempt to keep it viable in the face of solar and wind. That isnt going to prevent the Chinese government from expanding a surveillance state, or US political parties from using computing advancements attempting to restrict access to voting rights by gerrymandering better.
And I doubt anyone here is qualified to negotiate the....fraught political and social arguments of real world Earth. From racism and neocolonialist economics to things like the Israeli-Palestinean Problem. Or, if we're just sticking in the US, the decaying towns and cities of the Rust Belt, systemic racism and its economic impacts on entire populations(Look up tours of Jackson, Mississippi on Youtube. I dare you.)
Nevermind the optics of the 18 year old blonde American girl telling the billion plus people of subsaharan Africa, or the 3 billion of Asia their business.
These are inflammatory topics, and too close to RL situations to be handled with any detachment.
I dont want that.I didnt start participating here to play that.I may be reaching, but I doubt many other players, or the QM, do either. Id rather keep your technological uplift ambitions, and all the fraught political and economic implications thereof, out of my urban fantasy and concentrate on the notLovecraftian outer gods and supernatural creatures of the setting.
They are a much more relaxing topic to deal with.
No offense taken.
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- Location
- Germany
Creation is in the weird position that reactivating first-age machinery with your Solar skills is an effective uplift.
I recently read the book with the Warstriders, and how the Deathlords can all easily make thdm, thought they limit doing so, while the Realm and Lookshy is limited to the lesser versions.
It isn't.
Creation is like post at least two apocalypses.
The best we see is the equivalent of mcguyvering a generator in the Congo.
Even the Deathlords are well off Shogunate tech levels.
===
Comments later.
Need to prep for a trip.
GMO organisms are. Stuff like advanced alloys, carbon nanofibers, and better batteries aren't. Because they don't interact with humans, not noticeably. They are not put into human bodies, they are not something a person on the street interacts with (that they notice, at least).
Yes it is. And one that goes directly against the text and spirit of what "advanced technology" is. Until we actually make a hell, it's a baseless assumption.
Exalted very much has "reclaim the glories of the past" theme in it.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] The Last Station
Mostly because I want to bring our two social groups together.
Mostly because I want to bring our two social groups together.
It should also be noted you do not have to spend all your energies on an uplift. You could just throw a few techs into the mix and see what happens, you could trade them to factions interested in such things, which would presumably have some way to make use of them. It's not all or nothing.
Yes, this is what I am essentially advocating for. I understand perfectly that throwing our all into this endeavor is not for this quest.
I think I remember you stating at some point that Bane would be able to fight naagloshii off, though I guess "deter" is that.
A question - we have Bane's true name. I see three potential stunt / ward options:
1) Extend Bane's territory to new ward places, while also boosting its power
2) Take some hair from it as reagents, and make what are essentially its offspring
3) Raise entirely new gods
Would options 1 and 2 be viable?
As an argument for the plan - this provides long-term benefits for the order members.
No, to the first, it is very specifically a place god, yes to the second, it would make your job easier at the cost of making all the protectors similar in power and nature so someone who manages to deal with one would be well prepared to deal with the others.
Would asking Mouse for some fur to use as a catalyst work? He's also a guardian demi(god) basically. If it works, would it make Mouse more vulnerable?
Yes to both by the principles of sympathetic magic.
[x] Yog
Because he currently is thinking about it more than just going with the default options, particularly long term, that's a perfect excuse to considerably increase the Ordo's defenses right there, and we should jump on it to make them secure not only now, but ion the future.
This isn't the first attack one of our ally had to suffer, let's not pretend it will be the last.
Because he currently is thinking about it more than just going with the default options, particularly long term, that's a perfect excuse to considerably increase the Ordo's defenses right there, and we should jump on it to make them secure not only now, but ion the future.
This isn't the first attack one of our ally had to suffer, let's not pretend it will be the last.
In fairness, Molly's world soul isn't in the nevernever in the conventional sense. It's connected somehow, but it isn't a horizon realm:
Explicit in the charm text; the thing is inside Molly and has a gauntlet equivalent independent of the actual gauntlet around her.
So it's not unreasonable to say that the physics, whatever they are, would be of the more stable variety and conform to what Molly thinks they should on launch, because we're talking the contents of a budding world-titan's soul and not the Wylde Marches or whatever.
Not that it's necessarily true, but it's not inherently unreasonable to assert.
Wouldn't that be spiritually reproduction for him? Kind of a big ask (and one with let's call then Classical Greece implications about Molly's involvement).
Ok, that's a no go then.
Now, let's see, how much dice do we have to play with? Molly rolls 9*2+2=20 dice (without a stuntm but with WHWH) at DC... I want to say 3 (CCC + BSM). Lydia rolls 10 dice, Harry probably adds ~ 7 more, and I guess others add at least 5 to 10 more dice collectively. That's a total of 40+ dice. Yeah, we should do this.
Yeah, that's basically why I want to do this - it's a chance to set up proper defenses for them, powerful ones. That's a long term significant boost to their powers.
Ok, agreed. Not doing that, especially because it's an added vulnerability.
We really want to think of a stunt.
Excuse yes, but the timing is relevant.
We have to get them into cover for three days time spent on long term infrastructure now that takes away from the immediate security level of the Ordo is somewhat suboptimal.
Not that I'm saying we shouldn't upgrade them ASAP, but let's not do what we did with the big Akuma fight and get jumped during our prep work.
We need to good enough right now before we get into perfect for later.
With that in mind, I think the minimum for a ward raising scheme like this is to first get them under cover via something like the default options, raise new wards at an additional site, then shuffle excess to the new safe house.
If we could somehow swing it getting our ghouls* as escorts while out would also be good, but I doubt they'd take that well. A real head trip if we pulled it off though; a traditional enemy peeling faces on your side for once.
Given the living arrangements of the Ordo the proper long term solution** is probably to find a place with a really good threshold going up for sale, something with history, then build it up into a real safe house. Sell it to a member for stupid cheap and a firm agreement to always allow Ordo members shelter there. That way it stays properly lived in and the foundation strong.
*Sure they're not the best supernatural minions, but if they're backing up a caster with a little kick to them I give them way better odds against a whamp than either alone.
Further, if the witch hunter freaks show up they aren't likely to be as prepared to deal with something literally built to eat them alive as they are a minor talent who can't even use their powers to defend themselves.
** To be handled after immediate wards
Edit:
It's almost too bad we don't know where the witch hunters are. I somehow doubt the trap for Molly and Dresden considered the possibility of ghouls showing up and dragging the muggles into the dark.
Probably still a bad idea, but I'm still tempted to be on the offensive instead of waiting to be attacked.
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The issue can easily be addressed by having the members that live alone group up. We ward up all the members that have families and whatnot on the first day, then move to those that live alone, the second and third. Give everybody a cyber demons as well so they always have a way to get help.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@Yog What if they attack while we are upgrading wards elsewhere? We can only upgrade one at a time, and they need protection now they're already being attacked.
For now I think using this as an excuse to bring our groups closer together is a good idea in the long run.
The Jade Dogs will sing our praises and Cauldron will become more trusting of us!
Its a fullproof plan really.
[X] The Last Station
Pretty much this. Learn from your mistakes and all that. We should def make it a priority to update their defences across the board after this.
For now I think using this as an excuse to bring our groups closer together is a good idea in the long run.
The Jade Dogs will sing our praises and Cauldron will become more trusting of us!
Its a fullproof plan really.
[X] The Last Station
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- Location
- Brazil
For myself I would want to place them with our servants and then use Yog's plan to create a super barrier in our lair (which we're going to need anyway).
[X]Royal Fortress Plan
-[X] The Last Station
-[X] Hire Harry (pay him!) and invite Lydia to collaborate in creating super barriers using the cauldron of the same name
-[X] Ask Michael to call you sick with school for the required days
-[X] Use CCC hack (something wearable) and all other appropriate amulets to lower the difficulty and expand your dicepools.
[X] The Last Station
[X]Royal Fortress Plan
-[X] The Last Station
-[X] Hire Harry (pay him!) and invite Lydia to collaborate in creating super barriers using the cauldron of the same name
-[X] Ask Michael to call you sick with school for the required days
-[X] Use CCC hack (something wearable) and all other appropriate amulets to lower the difficulty and expand your dicepools.
[X] The Last Station
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[X]Royal Fortress Plan
-[X] The Last Station
-[X] Hire Harry (pay him!) and invite Lydia to collaborate in creating super barriers using the cauldron of the same name
-[X] Ask Michael to call you sick with school for the required days
-[X] Use CCC hack (something wearable) and all other appropriate amulets to lower the difficulty and expand your dicepools.
[X] The Last Station
-[X] The Last Station
-[X] Hire Harry (pay him!) and invite Lydia to collaborate in creating super barriers using the cauldron of the same name
-[X] Ask Michael to call you sick with school for the required days
-[X] Use CCC hack (something wearable) and all other appropriate amulets to lower the difficulty and expand your dicepools.
[X] The Last Station