Lara doesn't know we didn't actually capture the guy we just incinerated alive, or his soul after death, and simply forced that information out of him though.
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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Lara doesn't know we didn't actually capture the guy we just incinerated alive, or his soul after death, and simply forced that information out of him though.
- Location
- Germany
So we have two lesser Skinwalkers with a much more heavy-weight warform than you can get under most normal circumstances.
The fact that they did this now makes me wary that the Naagloshii is preparkng his minions to be more effective support and distraction for when he goes after Molly.
It makes me glad we are doing naagloshii hunt this month. It would have gotten worse later, I think.
[X] Call Lydia first to interrogate the whampire's soul.
- Location
- Germany
I think the Naagloshii might be our most dangerous foe so far, and not just because it is a powerful being in itself.
Because I suspect that thing looks at us and just sees the power burning within.
It won't underestimate us because we are a 17 year old girl, it won't underestimate us because our institutional support is a small sewer-gang.
It won't have the biases that most of the old monsters who still live in a society have.
It just knows we are a most dangerous prey and eill act accordingly.
Because I suspect that thing looks at us and just sees the power burning within.
It won't underestimate us because we are a 17 year old girl, it won't underestimate us because our institutional support is a small sewer-gang.
It won't have the biases that most of the old monsters who still live in a society have.
It just knows we are a most dangerous prey and eill act accordingly.
Your entire argument is that the Library are going to look at someone who killed a greater servant of Yomi Wan in single combat, who had the power to capture and hand over multiple akuma, who has the juice to make a phone call and bring in a short platoon of supernatural mercs from a major player.
One who is at least tentatively open to polite conversation and possible friendly relations.
And their reaction will be: let's poke them and see what happens. You are literally characterizing the Librarians to be dumber than Daedalus. At least Daedalus isnt directly attempting to poke the White Council.
And furthermore, the events of Death Masks and Dead Beat demonstrate that yes, the LoC has less on the ground surveillance capacity in the US than you claim. Or at least, the wisdom not to attempt to use them willy nilly.
There aren't arbitrary vacancies with line of sight to MacAnally's. It's a city; there are buildings all around.
The ones that can see Mac's premises are limited.
Nor can you simply rent an apartment or start a business without leaving a data trail that leads directly to you.
You're swallowing a spider to catch a fly. Your solution creates greater problems.
I flatly assert that the Carpenters are NOT being monitored. The whole plot of Nicodemus trying to spread a biomagic plague in Death Masks would have gone very differently if the govt had been tapping the Carpenter phones or had them under any sort of surveillance.
Not to mention that the Carpenter household is explicitly protected against surveillance. Which wouldnt be true if govt spies could bug their phones and Anduriel could then spy on the information the spies were taking. So no, angels wont allow it.
===
Yeah, no.
Flat no. We have been involved in ONE LoC case: the Red Room Murders. That's it. And that case only brought two LoC agents to town; we know there weren't more because we had access to Wrights email and if Librarians were crawling around, they'd have mentioned it.
You are once again doing this thing where you assume govts have unlimited resources and are willing to focus all those resources on one subject.
Because you don't actually get to wiretap everyone. The burden of evidence to implement electronic surveillance is significant.
No evidence of any of this in the setting.
No parallel justice system with supernaturally aware judges. There are individuals who are aware; there's no evidence of any sort of system.
Your inexperience with the US postal system is showing.
Gone through her mail.
How? She literally lives above her dental clinic with her family. Mail is delivered in the daytime in the US. When and how precisely are you getting at her mail? How are you distinguishing the clinic mail from her personal mail when they both go to the same address? How are you opening it without her noticing that her mail has been opened?
And if you think he was getting into the postal centres of a metro area like Chicago, you honestly have no idea what the throughput of one of those places is like.
Every hypothesis you suggest requires a lot more resources, and is vastly more implausible than the last.
- Location
- washington
You know normally I think this would just mean they'd leave since word of jim the other skinwalker hedged their bets and just left when it thought the fight wouldn't be a stomp. Given that wouldn't protect them against our eventual retaliation I'm unsure they'd know that though. Unless they do in which case their current actions probably aren't well a bad plan since dealing with us now is better than later since exponential growth and we have so many ways to find them.
- Location
- washington
Eh fairly sure government could monitor if its simply humans doing it. Time and time again its shown if its human free will angels cannot circumvent things directly. Mind you I'm fairly sure there's leeway if its supernatural things attached to humans. Not saying their being monitored as you made good points just that I doubt that angels would flat no it.
@DragonParadox any chance we get to use the body before it's destroyed as a crown focus?
Yes, of course they will. This is, in fact, a matter of national security. We are a new unknown player of great capability and uncertain loyalties who isn't directly subordinate to them, and is willing and capable of murder and destruction.
Citation needed. Mac's is a thing that has been around for a long time. It is absolutely under surveillance.
That's wrong. We have been involved in three major events that LoC would know about: Red Room Murders, Golden Memories bust (because yes, they would know about it), and Kakuri attack.
There is a reason I had Molly keep that glove, so you can still get a focus from it and yet destroy it for Murphy do check over your destruction of evidence
Hmm.
I would have thought Molly would have delivered the body to Lara. Just pop it in a trash bag, fumigate the trunk, then put it back in. I certainly thought we were going to, else we would have used the body as a focus.
Well, either there's a Lunar around or a couple skinwalkers got an upgrade.
Poor vet dude.
We need to put more points into our intelligence network.
Like I told Yog, governments have vast but not infinite resources and correspondingly huge responsibilities to cover. Nor do they break out their maximal powers all the time.
For a benchmark?
The FBI has a little under 37,000 personnel to cover the United States, and a budget of $11 billion. That's only a little over 3x the size of the Chicago Police Department, and the CPD only worry about Chicago. The RL Library has a staff of ~3k.
Resources are an issue.
Furthermore, human magic and electronics dont go along very well.
- Location
- washington
My disagreement was that the angels would just no the action not that it should be happening. Also not sure why your referencing human magic there's none in our house currently.
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Respectfully that's rubbish.
The Library of Congress did not survive two hundred years by needlessly aggravating supernatural powers of unknown scope.
Especially in a universe where even the relative midrank powers of the Red Court can deploy a reprisal team of hitters and demons to your HQ via the Never Never like they did to the Chicago FBI in Changes. Mortal governments do not have monopoly of force here, and there can be consequences for poking people.
National security. Uh huh.
Call me when they try to claim jurisdiction over Demonreach. After all, it's right there.
Citation needed.
There are definitely agents for various factions among the local community. But there is absolutely no evidence of some surveillance operation set up outside Mac's, and for bloody good reason.
Summer Lady Lily, Winter Lady Maeve, Summer Knight Fix and Mab herself have been to Mac's in the last five months. Any one of these people could make a surveillance operation and it's backers regret the day they were born and have the spare juice to do so.
No that's wrong.
There is zero evidence that they know about the Golden Memories bust. And all they know about Emma-O's little adventure is what we deigned to share.
Given as lesser akuma are often treated like mushrooms, their prisoners aren't going to be able to tell them much about why they were here either.
- Location
- United States
[X] Include what the Crown revealed about their purpose, it might be vital to catching all the traitors and maybe tracing this back to the source even if it is revealing an uncomfortable amount about your powers
Angels do the "coincidence" trick very well.
Your equipment will just fail in all sorts of plausible ways, and keep failing until you stop. Or the judge you went to for a warrant has an attack of conscience? Or someone else is inspired to object. Just like when Sanya was supposed to come to Chicago, his other flights kept being cancelled till he got the message.
I brought up human magic because I thought
we were also talking about the greater magic community being surveilled. My apologies for the confusion.
I don't see how the underlined is true.
Especially since she knows Molly's frienx Lydia talks to ghosts, and actually proposed that Lydia kill someone and bind their soul for interrogation.
Preferred option
-Call Lydia
-Explain
-Have her summon the ghost so you can question it for additional details
-Tell Lara about their purpose from interrogating the ghost
Remember how rhampires learned of our involvement in Golden Memories event - Michael's car was caught by traffic cameras. This was done via established monitoring systems that rhampires hijacked by subverting local police in some capacity (we haven't checked the extent of subversion). I guarantee you that if rhampires could do it on short notice, LoC is doing this constantly. Not to mention that the police was involved in the aftermath of us busting heads in the facility itself. LoC knows, I am 100% sure of it.
And yes, LoC has akuma prisoners. They know stuff about what happened.
- Location
- washington
debatable how much coincidence does consequences for one's and others actions still happen to knights of the cross and their loved ones after all. Also unsure if that's all angels, God themselves, the ones in the blades, an it angel in heaven. Though that's just semantics really. But, it clearly is not all encompassing of a protection or well at least they might choose to not make it all encompassing. Maybe there's a limit self imposed or not it's definitely not absolute though.
Though yeah my only actual debate is that the angels would nope someone's free will. I think they can't change the choices people make but they can sure pile up coincidences. Though only so much can really be done I think.
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-No they are not.
The Librarians cannot arbitrarily mindwhammy local law enforcement the way Rampires can to institute broad spectrum surveillance in major US cities. They do not have domestic law enforcement authorization either. Its flagrantly illegal. This shit matters in the US; you'll have random people revolting and leaking your shit to the press and Congress.
-Police involvement in the aftermath =/=Library of Congress involvement =/=Knowledge of Knight involvement =/=Knowledge of Molly involvement.
-The lesser akuma know fuckall.
Theyre mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed shit. Especially this variety who were apparently snagged before they could make contact with the greater world.
Emma-O was never the most sharing type of person at the best of times. And because they ARE akuma, they can be ordered to say nothing.
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- Location
- washington
I mostly agree with this though I will note I'm sure over the years they've had their own spook activities and things that cross the proverbial line of legal and illegal. Since you know they have to in certain circumstances.
Same way the cia and fbi have at times.
I mean, it's worth remembering that the Library is using Murphy as a local unpaid laision because they have no local offices here.
No local agents.
In Chicago, the third biggest city in the US and a known focus of Fae activity.
That speaks volumes about both their resources and their formal authority, and the type of profile they prefer to keep.
By comparison, the FBI has, and I quote:
No local agents.
In Chicago, the third biggest city in the US and a known focus of Fae activity.
That speaks volumes about both their resources and their formal authority, and the type of profile they prefer to keep.
By comparison, the FBI has, and I quote:
Cato Institute blog 2023 said:
We don't know what authority they have and haven't. From the looks of it, it's quite possible that they do have full authority to have Michael put on a watchlist as a person of interest or some other equivalent, and to quietly monitor all his movements. Why you think that a small group of rhampires deployed on short notice has more resources than an organization that's on its home ground, and has been working for centuries, I honestly don't understand.
- Location
- washington
When I referenced the fbi I was more referencing the shady shit they've probably done across the years and occasional spook activity.
Yes we do.
They TOLD us. Unless you are asserting they were lying. And they explicitly have an Edinburgh liaison, so Harry knows what their authority is as well.
Because a group of Rampires has exotic abilities to compel obedience and a lack of scruples. A US govt agency operating domestically does not, and has both laws to worry about, and a country of 300 million plus to spread their resources over.
A significant fraction of the plots of the Dresdenverse, from Death Masks Denarian pandemic plot, to Dead Beat's city blackout and mass human sacrifice plot, to fucking Chitchen Itza, would not have been possible if the Library had any of the capabilities you claim and was actively using them.
Putting someone on a watchlist in 2006 is... not the hardest thing in the world, though it should be noted that watchlists are not the same thing as 'hand me information now', they involve a lot of government agencies keeping an eye on the person in question and that would be rather corrosive to keeping magic behind the smokescreen. It is one thing for some guy who saw Sue charge by 5 seconds to convince himself that he must have had something bad to eat and hallucinated the T-Rex, it is quite another for numerous analysts who are trained to notice patterns and inconsistencies not to notice magic if they are given large quantities of data. The limitations of the Library as far as Molly understands them are mostly that they work within the US government while keeping the biggest of secrets ever from other parts of said apparatus.