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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Ok, before going to sleep, let me propose a different solution. The concern, as I take it, is that we are going to be attacked. We aren't planning to attack ourselves. As such, we need a boost to our defenses. We also need to have at least 4 XP banked, under the assumption that the next charm purchase would be equally as large as this one. We were also allowed for Lydia to have 4 XP.

[X] Plan Spiteful Swift Forging v. 2
-[X] Molly, 9 XP
--[X] Craft 4, 3 XP
--[X] Shadow Spite Curse, 6 XP
-[X] Lydia, 6 XP
--[X] Righteous Lion Defense, 3 XP
--[X]Flawless Hunters Eye: 3xp

5 XP banked. This should give us a nice enough cushion to buy the kingdom charm next turn. It also provides protection for Lydia, makes it so Nemssis attacking us would reveal it everywhere, and craft is just because I like craft. And, against, because Last Station and Odin. I can be persudaed to switch to Ox-Body technique, but that's just not interesting to me.

If this doesn't gain track by the time I wake up, I'll switch to for the Kingdom, because Swift Stride is a very suboptimal purchase.
 
SSC is a fairly good charm in it's own right. It is usually useful whenever Molly doesn't want to take action herself for whatever reason. For example we could have sabotaged Nemises defense rolls last update.

Nerfed a little bit by us not being an TRPG character most common use normally is many people social situations, but Molly might have a problem with sabotaging her Mom's willpower rolls when a friend is making an argument.

But it is a nice charm that means you almost never have nothing do even when it is time for other party members to shine.
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Information Superhighway (••••)
For technology-based magicians, there's an unusual
means of transportation often overlooked by mystics. It's
harder to access than others but can sometimes reach
places Conveyance normally can't. This ritual allows the
caster to travel from any electrical outlet to any other,
by converting the magician into electricity. The range
is limited to 5 miles per success. This travel takes one
minute per 5 miles. However, the archetypical sealed
room Conveyance can't access is usually not sealed off
from electricity: If an outlet exists, then the magician
can get to it
Given that Hardend devil body is the only aspect that is stated to be able to be taken more then once. I would say you cannot stack aspects.
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....
You're literally up here posting a M20 Mage ritual as a Sorcery Path example?
Man, c'mon.
Stop wasting my time.
Bread&Circuses said:
EDIT: Never mind, I just looked through the old comments and apparently we can use lower of melee or occult. So 18 dice to attack. I'm not sure of the math here for the average amount of success, but I'm still on the side that some potentially lower aggravated damage would be better than a bunch of bashing.
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1)Sometimes you dont want to kill everything with radioactive nuclear hatefire.

You might want prisoners for interrogation, for example, or just to take out mortals nonlethally, in a world where mind control and possession is explicitly a thing.
I mean, we literally just saw a Nemesis possession, didnt we?


2)Incapacitating someone with Bashing leaves them wide open and defenceless for Agg damage coup de grace, if you absolutely must kill them.


3)The key advantage here is that it prevents hostiles like the naagloshii from kiting us with magic beyond our response range.
We know the naagloshii can fly and has superspeed and ranged magic. We know some Denarians can as well.
We know Kattrin could Haste herself and Slow hostiles.

They arent likely to be alone.
Yog said:
This logic is flawed. Hardened Devil Body has " This Aspect may be taken multiple times". No other aspect has anything similar, or prohibition against taking it multiple time. If they could be taken multiple times, there would be no need to indicate that specifically for HDB. It's very clear that it's "everything is forbidden by default, and only those explicitly allowed are allowed".
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No it isnt. Much the opposite.
There is no big disclaimer about "no aspect here may be taken more than once except explicitly allowed."
And its explicitly stated that all our charms work in Shintai.

Furthermore, you have to consider that the author balanced the Celestial Exalted against Kuejin and Kindred and Mages, all of whom have some very nasty tricks in the toolbox.

Because frankly the idea that this is excessive, in a world where Whampire Disciplines can be modelled as Kindred Combo Disciplines, where Kueijin Black Wind is a thing, and even the Shih have a perfect soak at Resilient Cat Tier 4?
Not really reasonable IMO.

I'll continue this when I get back from running errands, because I think a lot of people have actually forgotten what the setting and setting books support in this AU.
 
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Bread&Circuses said:
EDIT: Never mind, I just looked through the old comments and apparently we can use lower of melee or occult. So 18 dice to attack. I'm not sure of the math here for the average amount of success, but I'm still on the side that some potentially lower aggravated damage would be better than a bunch of bashing.
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Not to argue against my own idea, because I think that even without any exp spending waving around a hellfire uzi and wildly spraying bullets is an effective method for discouraging people at range regardless of actual damage, but technically MHM can facilitate a similar trick.

TA applies to weapons we use, but not to charm damage with a few exceptions. That doesn't mean charm delivery isn't a thing though.

Molly's craft score is flexible enough to make some entertaining bombs, and MHM doesn't have to be a direct attack. It's basically an infinite range Agg grenade launcher even without the other charm that will summon explosives for us.

I don't think it's worth it right now unless it's the only thing we get, but we should keep our crafting synergies in mind with stuff like this.
Yog said:
This logic is flawed. Hardened Devil Body has " This Aspect may be taken multiple times". No other aspect has anything similar, or prohibition against taking it multiple time. If they could be taken multiple times, there would be no need to indicate that specifically for HDB. It's very clear that it's "everything is forbidden by default, and only those explicitly allowed are allowed".
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Probably worth considering the difference between Shintai choices and BRR restrictions in context too.

My read up to this point was that you could add copies of an aspect to Shintai where it made sense to do so in that build itself, but that you couldn't add stacks back via BRR.

fictionfan said:
Man if we want to make real fuck you money that would be the way to do it. Short sell a company and curse them. We can even call it ethical if we curse their "dodge taxes" project or other unethical projects.
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… You could almost fall back assward into an infernal bureaucracy blessing for the regulators with something like this.

While they probably aren't laid out so explicitly as 'hide from the SEC' or whatever, there are organized efforts around this sort of thing. Just keep cursing until compliance improves.

That'd certainly be a fun one for the feds and economic historians.

Just imagine the countless paper pushers trying to ascribe meaning to all financial criminals becoming profoundly incompetent after they hit a certain size for reasons that seem complicated unrelated on any observable level. :V
 
Can someone sell me on Shadow Spite Curse vs Mind Hand Manipulation? I think I have a pretty good understanding of MHM, I've seen it used before, but SSC I'm drawing a blank on, not a lot of Exalted games I've seen draw heavily on the Ebon Dragon, which is a crying shame.
 
Thought: If the concern is us getting speedblitzed in battle, wouldn't dexterity and wits be better investments?

Just because we can run with swift stride doesn't mean we can fight.

Edit: And I'm starting to realize this probably wasn't the concern.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Not to argue against my own idea, because I think that even without any exp spending waving around a hellfire uzi and wildly spraying bullets is an effective method for discouraging people at range regardless of actual damage, but technically MHM can facilitate a similar trick.

TA applies to weapons we use, but not to charm damage with a few exceptions. That doesn't mean charm delivery isn't a thing though.

Molly's craft score is flexible enough to make some entertaining bombs, and MHM doesn't have to be a direct attack. It's basically an infinite range Agg grenade launcher even without the other charm that will summon explosives for us.

I don't think it's worth it right now unless it's the only thing we get, but we should keep our crafting synergies in mind with stuff like this.

Probably worth considering the difference between Shintai choices and BRR restrictions in context too.

My read up to this point was that you could add copies of an aspect to Shintai where it made sense to do so in that build itself, but that you couldn't add stacks back via BRR.



… You could almost fall back assward into an infernal bureaucracy blessing for the regulators with something like this.

While they probably aren't laid out so explicitly as 'hide from the SEC' or whatever, there are organized efforts around this sort of thing. Just keep cursing until compliance improves.

That'd certainly be a fun one for the feds and economic historians.

Just imagine the countless paper pushers trying to ascribe meaning to all financial criminals becoming profoundly incompetent after they hit a certain size for reasons that seem complicated unrelated on any observable level. :V
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I do kind of doubt we'll permanently keep the masquerade in quest. Well actually no it'd be years before we could break it if we wanted to really honestly quest could die before it became relevant. I'm unsure the quest actually has a natural stopping point I dunno maybe devil tiger then a string of high level bosses.

Masquerade in canon is breaking in chicago proper its fairly broken for the locals. For the country less so though. Thats like what a decade in the future in the books though right? No way we ever get that far in the timeline.
 
Duquette7 said:
Can someone sell me on Shadow Spite Curse vs Mind Hand Manipulation? I think I have a pretty good understanding of MHM, I've seen it used before, but SSC I'm drawing a blank on, not a lot of Exalted games I've seen draw heavily on the Ebon Dragon, which is a crying shame.
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Baseline I'd say SSC is less useful.

Here's the text:

shadoW spite Curse (••)
With a dismissive gesture, the Infernal befouls her tar-
get's efforts with the darkness and soul-biting chill of Kakuri. System: Concentrating fully upon her target, the Infernal's player makes a Willpower roll against diffi- culty 7. If in combat, this is her action for the current turn. For each success she rolls, her target loses one die from whatever action they're currently attempting. Signature Effect: While she wears her Shintai form, the world around the Infernal is fractured into a jagged landscape of tortured and bleeding Essence, where all
actions taken to oppose her suffer a –3 penalty.
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As a signature it's great because it hits everyone who tries to oppose her, but to use the charm in combat you basically have to trade your action to reduce the successes of whatever the target is doing.

Out of combat it has some better utility, especially since it doesn't really set a range which could imply it's another LoS effect, but it's still ultimately trading inaction for an attempt to make the enemy fail on a moment to moment level.

In most cases I think we'd be better off stopping someone from acting by way of active disruption, but there are places it'd be useful.
 
Duquette7 said:
Can someone sell me on Shadow Spite Curse vs Mind Hand Manipulation? I think I have a pretty good understanding of MHM, I've seen it used before, but SSC I'm drawing a blank on, not a lot of Exalted games I've seen draw heavily on the Ebon Dragon, which is a crying shame.
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SSC whenever you want someone to roll less dice and don't have anything else that you want to do with the action. It is amazingly flexible.

We have willpower 9 and the default DC is 7 so if wet on average we impose 3.6 dice minus penalty. Considering that a lot of mortal actions are done using only 3 dice that means we can often force botches.
BronzeTongue said:
Out of combat it has some better utility, especially since it doesn't really set a range which could imply it's another LoS effect
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More then that LoK (line of knowledge). Watch a live speech and make the speaker mess up. Or when listening to a broadcast on the radio. Or just sabotage the kidnapper well someone else is driving you to the scene. We don't need to know what they are doing just who they are and that we don't want them to succeed.

Whenever Molly wants to wish someone ill they are effected. It is said that nursing a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping your target dies. Not so for Infernals.
 
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uju32 said:
....
You're literally up here posting a M20 Mage ritual as a Sorcery Path example?
Man, c'mon.
Stop wasting my time.
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That is a sorcery path ritual, which you would know if you read it. Conveyance is a path, the sphere of travel is Correspondence and that would maybe be a 2 dot correspondence effect, a 4 dot
•••• Rend Space/ Ward/ Co-locate Self Creating larger holes in space, the mage can now open permanent gates between locations (10 or more successes); isolate forces, spaces, objects, or people into their own tiny realms (by combining Correspondence 4 with Forces, Life, Mind, or Matter); and wardcertain locations against specific Patterns (again, combining Forces, Life, Mind, or Matter with Correspondence) or Resonance energies (combining this Sphere with Prime 4). This warding effect can impede or even block the forbidden elements from crossing into, or out of, the protected space.
Something that you need Conveyance 5 and a major ritual which for most would be a life times work. Correspondence can do basically instantly

Don't waste my time
 
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fictionfan said:
SSC whenever you want someone to roll less dice and don't have anything else that you want to do with the action. It is amazingly flexible.

We have willpower 9 and the default DC is 7 so if wet on average we impose 3.6 dice minus penalty. Considering that a lot of mortal actions are done using only 3 dice that means we can often force botches.
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The key part here is not having anything else to do with the action. They lose 3.6 successes or we put 10+ into some other action to meet a goal.

Also worth noting that we have a hilarious number of ways to bully mortals, their pools aren't really the bar here. The 3-4 success do mean something on the scale of targets we actually care about, but the relative value is adjusted.

There are uses for it, but I wouldn't call it some super flexible wonder tool that is going to be our best option in most cases.
fictionfan said:
More than that LoK (line of knowledge). Watch a live speech and make the speech mess up. Or when listening to a broadcast on the radio. Or just sabotage the kidnapper well someone else is driving you to the scene.
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I don't see any reason to read it that way.
If you take the fact that it only requires focusing on a target to mean something that broad then why can't we use it to randomly sabotage people on the other side of the planet based on a picture or something to help us focus on the target in particular?

The intent seems to be a lot more immediate.

Do you have a ruling or something for this?
 
BronzeTongue said:
I don't see any reason to read it that way.
If you take the fact that it only requires focusing on a target to mean something that broad then why can't we use it to randomly sabotage people on the other side of the planet based on a picture or something to help us focus on the target in particular?

The intent seems to be a lot more immediate.

Do you have a ruling or something for this?
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I just don't assume limits that aren't written.
 
firefrog600 said:
I do kind of doubt we'll permanently keep the masquerade in quest. Well actually no it'd be years before we could break it if we wanted to really honestly quest could die before it became relevant. I'm unsure the quest actually has a natural stopping point I dunno maybe devil tiger then a string of high level bosses.

Masquerade in canon is breaking in chicago proper its fairly broken for the locals. For the country less so though. Thats like what a decade in the future in the books though right? No way we ever get that far in the timeline.
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Waging wars of conquest against hells not serving their function will be a project, really establishing herself as Demon Empress is a fair given and I assume at some point Molly will be seriously considering trying to eat Lucifer.

Unfortunately the damned need a hero a lot more than the living right now, that any predators of humans exist is a problem for sure but not quite on the same level of the afterlife being borked.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Some basic assumptions should probably be confirmed before acting on them.

If we take it as you're suggesting we could sit in the Carpenter's living room and curse random fey in Arctis Tor as long as we had a picture or other good way to focus our attention on them specifically.
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Yes? It's likely they they wouldn't be doing anything that important most of the time and Molly's time is generally better spent doing other things, but if she wants to spend her time sticking pins in a voodoo doll to inconvenience someone she can do it.*

Without knowing what someone is doing it's hard to know if the charms is worth using and it generally isn't but this charm turns Molly's spite into a very powerful force.

Remember this was an Ebony Dragon charm meant to encourage people to think like him.

*Also it would not surprise me if fey had a special revenge sense they might not know what Molly has done or even that it was her, but they just sense that the scales are uneven and someone somewhere needs payback.
 
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XenonPrime said:
Waging wars of conquest against hells not serving their function will be a project, really establishing herself as Demon Empress is a fair given and I assume at some point Molly will be seriously considering trying to eat Lucifer.

Unfortunately the damned need a hero a lot more than the living right now, that any predators of humans exist is a problem for sure but not quite on the same level of the afterlife being borked.
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yeah I'm not confident fighting them with anything less than devil tiger and demon empress unless you mean something else I believe requires us to murder God or I guess just take his theoretical throne.
 
fictionfan said:
Yes? It's likely they they wouldn't be doing anything that important most of the time and Molly's time is generally better spent doing other things, but if she wants to spend her time sticking pins in a voodoo doll to inconvenience someone she can do it.*

Without knowing what someone is doing it's hard to know it the charms is worth using and it generally isn't but this charm turns Molly's spite into a very powerful force.

Remember this was an Ebony Dragon charm meant to encourage people to think like him.

*Also it would not surprise me if fey had a special revenge sense they might not know what Molly has done or even that it was her, but they just sense that the scales are uneven and someone somewhere needs payback.
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If they do it'd be on an individual basis though we've gotten confirmation that transferred mantles should allow someone to know about debts to said mantle probably. Though thats probably not universal for mantles so much as fae mantles since they have such a focus on such stuff as butcher has said.
 
It's not that practical an application but SSC should allow so every time an Infernal says "Curse you X!" X is a little bit less lucky in that moment. It means every moment of spite is (sort of) productively used.

Edit: Of course it also plays for Drama as Molly has to avoid wishing Ill on people.
 
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fictionfan said:
It's not that practical an application but SSC should allow so every time an Infernal says "Curse you X!" X is a little bit less lucky in that moment. It means every moment of spite is (sort of) productively used.

Edit: Of course it also plays for Drama as Molly has to avoid wishing Ill on people.
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Gonna be honest once we get it I totally plan to abuse the hell out of it. Though I've gotta wonder if we for example cursed the cabinet of a corrupt dictatorship or something would that likely result in horribad consequences? Like I don't know nukes if they have nukes or something like that? or fuck if we cursed say a nuclear production making facility is that likely to make them fail in making nukes or fuck up while making nukes?
 
firefrog600 said:
Gonna be honest once we get it I totally plan to abuse the hell out of it. Though I've gotta wonder if we for example cursed the cabinet of a corrupt dictatorship or something would that likely result in horribad consequences? Like I don't know nukes if they have nukes or something like that? or fuck if we cursed say a nuclear production making facility is that likely to make them fail in making nukes or fuck up while making nukes?
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That sort of thing can happen when you throw around curses with no care or respect for the consequences.

However I don't think SSC would be enough to mess up a nuclear production making facility by itself unless we targeted it with so much care that we might as well sneak in and sabotage more directly. SSC is very personal in nature.

Unless you are talking about Endless Torment Emanation? That is the organization cursing charm.
 
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fictionfan said:
That sort of thing can happen when you throw around curses with no care or respect for the consequences.

However I don't think SSC would be enough to mess up a nuclear production making facility be itself unless we targeted it with so much care that we might as well sneak in and sabotage more directly. SSC is very personal in nature.

Unless you are talking about ETE? That is the organization cursing charm.
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Neat though yeah it probably also depends on circumstances. Like say we curse an organization with the ete charm if their goal is to use the nukes good chance they fuck it up without you know being able to use the nukes. But, if their goal is to make nukes I'm curious if they'd say still make but fuck up the production of them or they would just you know fail to make them.
 
firefrog600 said:
Neat though yeah it probably also depends on circumstances. Like say we curse an organization with the ete charm if their goal is to use the nukes good chance they fuck it up without you know being able to use the nukes. But, if their goal is to make nukes I'm curious if they'd say still make but fuck up the production of them or they would just you know fail to make them.
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It all depends. Certainly the organization would have fair more botches then would normally be the case, but exactly what those botches would be is up to the QM. It's even possible that they manage to push though the curse by spending resources like water and having tons of redundancies.

Like they could act like Russia invading Ukraine. Clown shoes all the way, but still causing mass suffering.
 
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fictionfan said:
It all depends. Certainly the organization would have fair more botches then would normally be the case, but exactly what those botches would be is up to the QM. It's even possible that they manage to push though the curse by spending resources like water and having tons of redundancies.

Like they could act like Russia invading Ukraine. Clown shoes all the way, but still causing mass suffering.
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All true though even if we don't have to be idiots about it I don't want to be cowards about it either. A little incompetence in things we curse is probably not the end of the world. Even if its a nuclear facility probably.
 
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