Would you Distort or manifest EGO?


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Refuses to wear the cool feather dress, no matter how good it looks.
Thats a shame. I wonder why?
Worried about her sister.
Aww, she's worried about us~ How cute!
Angela can receive, process, and incorporate information at a level beyond human comprehension. She could perform absurd feats such as learning a skill simply by watching it performed once, copying an individual's mannerisms or handwriting perfectly, or learning an entire language fluently after only hearing a few sentences.
I imagine this makes teasing much more effective. More time to process being teased~
Director Of The Role's Namesake: Angela's EGO, the Library, is almost certainly the most powerful to ever be manifested. It is a self-contained universe bound to a transdimensional space that can only be accessed through special connections distributed by the Library itself. While there does appear to be a physical location where the Library exists in normal space, attempting to approach it would be pointless. In the past, Invitations to the Library were sent out by the will of another who dwelt within the Light, Angela has since taken full control of the Library's functions.

As a consequence of Angela's authority over the space, she is capable of reorganizing the environment of the Library as well as the people within it freely. Doing so does require active exertion and can potentially be counteracted by similar powers, but such methods should not be relied upon too heavily. The Library's Reception system is its most efficient and prominent way of confronting intruders, splitting them up between floors and only allowing a small number to fight at a time. No individual, not even Angela, can overturn the rules of a Reception.
As expected, Angela is OP
It bears a striking resemblance to the fighting style of a certain Fixer, but don't point that out or she'll get embarrassed.
Oh thats just adorable. I wonder if Roland has noticed?
The Knowing I: ??? The final fragment of the Seed of Light, once again whole. Stabilizes the self and offers supreme control over abilities derived from one's own Identity. Functions in tandem with another component. Angela possesses this additional virtue, and always has.
I wonder what the second component is? Maybe its us?
 
Any individual who perished within the Library is translated into information in the form of a "Book"
Within the scope of this Quest, which way do you resolve the contradiction between Hokma's "the moment someone enters the Library, they are put in stasis and the receptions you fight are just copies made of Light", and the numerous times when people do, in fact, just come and go as they please (Lulu, Philip, Argalia)?
 
Within the scope of this Quest, which way do you resolve the contradiction between Hokma's "the moment someone enters the Library, they are put in stasis and the receptions you fight are just copies made of Light", and the numerous times when people do, in fact, just come and go as they please (Lulu, Philip, Argalia)?
The easiest answer, both here and canonically, is that Carmen pulled something to let these people leave.
 
or learning an entire language fluently after only hearing a few sentences.


but don't point that out or she'll get embarrassed.

I sense an opportunity!

Within the scope of this Quest, which way do you resolve the contradiction between Hokma's "the moment someone enters the Library, they are put in stasis and the receptions you fight are just copies made of Light", and the numerous times when people do, in fact, just come and go as they please (Lulu, Philip, Argalia)?

The door is a portal that makes you think you walked out of it in one go, but instead makes your body of light disappear and your real body get out from the door. Easy.

Edit:

Like, we already have the Warp trains as a demonstration of *don't trust the fact you think everything happened in one go*, you can apply it to the library without any problems.
 
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Within the scope of this Quest, which way do you resolve the contradiction between Hokma's "the moment someone enters the Library, they are put in stasis and the receptions you fight are just copies made of Light", and the numerous times when people do, in fact, just come and go as they please (Lulu, Philip, Argalia)?
We know people can be released from the Library. Since Carmen was in control of the Receptions at the time, and we know that the Library's rules are really just "Does this benefit the Library? If yes, than go ahead" from Yesod, so Carmen just released them in order to ensure more people were drawn in later. Lulu and San get the Zwei involved, Philip lures in the Lui Association and by extension Xiao, and Argalia is actually feeding people to the Library on purpose.
 
I wonder if we need to achieve the Knowing I to save our life. Though not sure how we'll go about that. Maybe it has something to do with the floor of geography? We've barely interacted with it after going to see Censored, after all.
 
Given how both Angela and Ayin achieved their own Knowing I, we probably will have to re-do quite a lot of X's journey again.

We managed to talk to the Asiyah team although not singularly, Briah is nearly done, with just Geburah being the remaining, and Atziluth is still too spooky for X to approach just yet. I imagine Hokma and Binah would be rather interesting talks (and a nightmare for Lepid to write lol).

So it will probably be a while before X gets her Knowing I again.
 
I'm not sure we'll get the knowing I, or any of the other Kabalah values in fact, we work on the principle of the Qlipoth, with our own set of revelations to go with it, and Angela's page explicitly refers to *Functions in tandem with another component.*, meaning not another *knowing I*.

This is what I am talking about when I say that the girls are probably the answer to our problems with our abnormality state, the marks of the Qlipoth are us giving them a position in our hierarchy, and given we are the facility, said roles are there to help us reach enlightenment.

In fact, the way Thaumiel works gives a possible answer to our dilemma of *stay human and die or become abno and change*, Thaumiel is *the twin of god*, division, we can simply be human and an abnormality by having them both exists simultaneously in different places or something similar, a revelation about the knowledge of bonds to other instead of the knowledge of oneself.
 
I wonder if we need to achieve the Knowing I to save our life. Though not sure how we'll go about that. Maybe it has something to do with the floor of geography? We've barely interacted with it after going to see Censored, after all.
The way Thaumiel works gives a possible answer to our dilemma of *stay human and die or become abno and change*, Thaumiel is *the twin of god*, division, we can simply be human and an abnormality by having them both exists simultaneously in different places or something similar, a revelation about the knowledge of bonds to other instead of the knowledge of oneself.
I'm honestly thinking X needs Da'at, tbh, and I'd like to propose an argument as to why. It feels a little shaky admittedly but...
I think Abnormalities, all Abnormalities, are inherently Qliphotic, and it's just that X can do more with it than any other Abnormality because of some mix of being an ALEPH+ and Light Fuckery. I say this because Lobcorp's primary method of keeping Abnormalities contained, some device or system which seems to disrupt external manifestations of an Abnormality's power, and leaves them lethargic.... was called 'Qliphoth Deterrence'. Admittedly it might just be a thematic thing, but with how Qliphoth is philosophically weird and conflicting, plus how Distortions are effectively a 'corruption' of the Light and rather blatantly emulate Abnormalities in a lot of ways...

It all makes me think X is already drawing on the Qlipha. Especially Thaumiel. I think its whole Division and Duality thing is how X can hold a human shape at all, by intentionally placing a divide between Manager and Facility, Light-filled Human and Unequaled Abnormality. because if a Light-infused human embodies aspects of the Sefirot, and Abnormalities and Distortions are inherently Qliphotic... Seems to me like you're very much not supposed to have both at the same time.

But X does. And is using tools out of one box to keep it that way. Tools that work for now... but are very clearly the wrong tools. If you're struggling with an issue of diametrically opposed powersets the solution isn't to dump more of one side into the water and hope the problem goes away. It's to find a way to bridge the gap and give both sets common ground. And wouldn't you know it? That bridge exists, and X doesn't have it.

Da'at, The Knowing I, after all, is often considered its own equal opposite for the purposes of Qliphoth, and thus is the only piece that commonly appears on both sides of the Sefirot/Qliphoth divide. And it's very clearly the only piece of the Seed of Light X never got to hold onto. Or perhaps never had in the first place. And what is its stated purpose? Simply to say I Am.

Thaumiel merely states 'Both Exist'. Keter's status as Unity is probably the only reason X hasn't metaphysically ripped herself to shreds yet, and is thus currently preoccupied. But Da'at I think, would effectively slot between them, and allow Thaumiel to stop functioning as the stabilizing buffer it's fundamentally not designed to be. A continuation. A bridge between. Thaumiel (Both Abnormality and Human Exist...) Da'at (For I AM Both) Keter (And together they are unified into א, Something Greater.) Division, Stabilization/Purification, Reunification. Philosopher's Stone.

Baddabing, Baddaboom. Alchemy to Godhood. Or something. Or at least fixing what could only charitably be called a patch job done with Thaumiel.
Idk if this is right or accurate but it feels right so yeah. There's some thoughts I guess.
 
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I'm honestly thinking X needs Da'at

Ah, yes, the other little hidden detail I think I saw someone remark on once about the tree of life and the knowing I, the fact that it's more of a Da'ar value than a Keter one.

If we want Da'at, we gave to see it's Sephira/Qlipha, Carmen is the one at that place in the facility, so… probably should not go to her.

Luckily, we do know another one who is at Da'at, after all, Roland is Keter, and it is Angela, not him, who holds *The knowing I*.

Still, even if The Knowing I is what we have to search for, my point about asking our girls for help still stands, Angela didn't reach it alone, and in fact, the path where she rejects others is the path where she doesn't get it, she obtained it by facing her demons with the help of the Sephiroth, those that were closest to her in the place she was, why wouldn't we be able to work on the same principle? With our daughters and their friends as the ones to help us face our demons?
 
That was pretty great. Just finished catching up on this. Needs more Gebura and Roland though.

I kinda want to see Roland put a few holes in some Witches.
 
We cannot get any Sephira
Because facility is a monument of evil.
It is inherently a breeding ground for everything Qlipha, It is its singular purpose, The facility is the ultimate evil, and only when the monument of evil is established can the Sephira of good reverse it and Water the seed of light...
but the king of hell wishing to gain a Revelation of the ultimate good?
That is a fantasy that will not come true.
Not when there is no outside.
And even if we do gain the revelation, it'll be tainted because we are doing this for our own sake.
That is changing the knowing I with selfishness... And that can not do.
 
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2.3.2 - Diagnostics
Chapter 114 - Diagnostics

There are no obvious advantages to telling your children about your condition. The atmosphere is grim already, and knowing that your time in this world is limited will only worsen things. It weakens the image of you they have built, as an invincible protector who they will always be able to rely on. The idea that you will have to leave some day, especially in such a permanent manner, will almost certainly trigger personal trauma for both Mami and Yuma to some degree. It may also bring up bad memories for Kyoko, though you doubt she's come to consider you family in the few days you've known one another. Furthermore, there is nothing they can do about it. While Magical Girls are capable of healing magic, and Mami is in contention for the most skilled Magical Girl of her generation if not the outright best, that magic pales compared to Angela's resources. If she couldn't determine a way to heal you even with her abilities, the chances of one of your children finding something are infinitesimal. All that this will accomplish is giving them another thing to worry about.

However…

"There is another thing I should mention."

All eyes are on you, the weight that fills your words leaving no room for anything else in that moment. The previously pleasant warmth radiating through the room grows cloying.

"As I've already explained to you, I lost my human body back before I met any of you. Since then, I've been living as an Abnormality, sealed off in this body here. I had hoped to just keep things up the way they are now, but…"

Relationships aren't something that can be approached in a strict cost-benefit manner. At least, not without taking into account all the things that give a proper relationship meaning. Family should trust one another, and your kids deserve to know what's going to happen to you. Better you tell them now than they find out at a worse time.

"I've recently discovered that my current state is unstable. I'll be getting weaker as time goes on, so you'll need to be able to rely on yourselves more by then."

It hurts to watch Mami grip her utensils tightly enough to warp the metal, unable to meet your eyes. To see Yuma state up at her older sister, desperate for guidance or direction. Even if you've softened the message, they know what this means. You don't have to say what the conclusion will be for them to recognize it.

"You shouldn't worry too much. Angela and I will be working to find a solution, and there's still several years before this becomes a serious issue. Until then, though, don't be too surprised if I need to rely on you sometimes."

This is a loss for you. But it's a loss you have to take. Maintaining an illusion of strength isn't even in contention compared to trusting your family. It hurts, but this is a necessary step forward.

Mami is the first one to answer you. She slowly sits up from the table, still staring at the floor. "I'll go get ready for school. I wouldn't want to be late." In spite of her calm words, you can see her body shaking. Slowly, Mami turns from the table and walks away. Kyoko starts to reach for her, then stops and lets her arm drop to her side.

As the door closes behind your eldest daughter, Yuma looks back to you. "Is Mami gonna be okay?"

"She'll be fine." you assure the small girl. "Your sister's tough; she just needs some time to process this. It's just that this is bringing up some painful memories for her."

The three of you sit in silence together for some time, listening to the sounds of Mami gathering her things in the other room. The last remains of breakfast lay uneaten on the table. You'll probably have to toss it, since it'll be cold by later and food is never as good when it's reheated.

"On a related note," you say, hoping to move the topic to something less gloomy, "Kyoko, do you have any thoughts about learning for today? I know you weren't fond of the idea before, but it's not too late to start preparing for proper school."

Kyoko opens her mouth, presumably to refuse again, then stops. She glances over at the door to Mami's room, where her sister is still packing her things.

"I'll give it a shot."

"Good to hear." you say calmly, sitting up to begin cleaning up the leftovers from breakfast. Most of what's here will be alright if refrigerated, so you won't have to throw very much out. "Yuma, could you help me with the dishes?"

Quietly, slowly, the meal comes to an end.

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When Mami returns from her room, dressed in her school uniform, she's smiling again. There's an undercurrent of worry in her expression that isn't usually present, though. It'll take some time for her to fully accept what's going to happen. Perhaps it really would've been better for you to say nothing. Not that there's any point in wondering now.

"You all ready?" you ask, though you already know the answer.

"Of course. I have everything with me." Mami responds confidently. "Yuma, are you ready to go to school as well?"

"Yuma's all ready!" the kid says a little bit more cheerfully than normal, before running over to her older sister and throwing her arms around her. Mami returns the hug without hesitation, then releases her sibling and walks over to you. You kneel down and embrace your daughter.

"It's gonna be alright. Don't worry about me too much." you say quietly, patting Mami on the back. For a brief moment, her embrace tightens, as if holding on to you will somehow keep things as they are.

Then the moment passes, and Mami lets go. She walks past you to Kyoko and pulls her in, the air momentarily filling with an intense her pleasant heat, like a warm fire after a long, cold day. Kyoko seems surprised at first, but then that surprise passes and she returns the hug with an even greater enthusiasm. The two stand there, taking solace in the fact that they are there.

You and Yuma smile at one another from your end of the room. It's nice to have a family.

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After saying your final goodbyes to Mami and dropping Yuma off at her school, you started on Kyoko's catch-up. It's definitely an uphill battle, considering how much learning you're having to compress, but you and Kyoko are managing. She might not have a lot of the expected background knowledge for what's being taught, especially around math and science, but she learns fast and you're a genius. After a few hours of work, interrupted by evenly spaced breaks to avoid fatigue, you leave her with some packets you copied off of the internet and tell her to do as much as she can before you get back from your research.

Chaining a few teleports to random locations to throw off tracking, you eventually arrive at an uninhabited island near the edge of your range limit. It's just barely familiar enough for you to reach, but that's fine. You don't plan on using the same spot more than once anyways.

Conjuring Lamp and turning its gaze to focus on yourself, you mentally note just how useful the watcher's EGO actually is. Setting aside its use in combat, where it might lack in sheer strength but comes with incredible utility, the sheer range of information it provides is incredible. As long as you know what to look for, nothing can be hidden from the burning glare caged within. Not even the state of your heart.

Not that it's entirely necessary. Throwing off your coat and shirt to a summoned soldier, the deep, indelible cracks covering your torso are plain as day. As you stretch, you can see a thick green fluid roiling just beneath your skin. From the thick, chemical scent, you can recognize the stasis preservation fluid. It's a unique compound, meant for keeping Carmen's brain alive even separated from her body and put under the strain of extracting Cogito for millennia, containing a mixture of Enkephalin and various other rare chemicals. For now, the fluid is staying firmly within your body, though you remember it spilling out on two occasions.

At least you have something to look out for.

You cycle through your roster of EGO gear, dutifully noting the lack of change with each summoning. You had expected at least some strain when you got to the Aleph-class weapons, but nothing makes itself apparent. That's reassuring, in the very least. You can continue to use the strongest weapons in your arsenal without limits. As much as you just extolled Lamp's virtues, your love for discovery might be tainting your opinion a bit. Your other weapons are quite versatile as well. A single one would probably have been enough to carry you against most threats, given the sheer variety of applications you could reach if you aimed for it.

With the knowledge that just using a weapon won't make you keel over, you move on to something a bit more intensive. Taking the outline of Mimicry you reach inward and drag out a deep, hungry feeling. The gnawing essence pours into the framework, accepted effortlessly by the base you chose. All at once, your modified Mimicry appears in your grasp.

You wait for the jolt of pain, but it never comes. Interesting. Reinterpretation of EGO gear is a power explicitly tied to your Abnormality self. You had expected some resistance, or some consequences, for using it. And yet, there's nothing. Perhaps because it's not enough of an exertion to be notable? Or maybe it's more of a psychological issue. Angela said this was all caused by you rejecting your transformation into an Abnormality. In that case, the powers that would worsen your condition would be the ones you most relate to your Abnormality form.

Experimentally, you reach for Lobotomy. The results are immediate. A sharp pain shoots through you, though you were expecting it this time. You grit yourself teeth and lean against a second conjured soldier for support, waiting patiently for the feeling to pass. A few seconds later, you dismiss your temporary support. That wasn't nearly as bad as last night, though you were intentionally pushing as little as possible. Actually using Lobotomy now isn't impossible, but there will be consequences and doing so in combat at all is out.

Back to testing. You've used your modified version of Mimicry before, but what about EGO you've only ever transformed completely while you were fully unshackled?

The Knight's rapier, the first EGO you ever wielder, appears in your hand as a dutiful companion. You peer into its shape and offer a fragment of something long forgotten. The blade welcomes the foreign power, and suddenly you are holding something less like a sword and more like a spear. The transformed weapon is a series of bright crimson arms, wrapped around one another to form a single tool. There are other forms, you know this, but the one will suffice for your purposes now. You feel no pain in the alteration of EGO you've never changed as a human before. Aside from the more fundamental Abnormality-based powers, it appears the abilities of yours that rely on reproducing external powers remain unaffected.

That's good to know. You're already facing down some overwhelming opposition in the near future, and you can't afford to be getting weaker while they grow stronger every day.

Soon, you'll need to make the first move. Not today, but soon.

Until then, all you can do is try to prepare.

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Today's Lessons… (You) and (Sayaka)
[] (You) Combat Prowess
[] (You) Foreign EGO
[] (You) One's Own EGO
[] (Sayaka) Combat Prowess
[] (Sayaka) Life Lessons
[] (Sayaka) Manifesting EGO


———————————————

Der Freischütz's Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
Porccubus' Sapling - Observation Level 2/3
CENSORED's Sapling - Observation Level EXPUNGED/REDACTED

I've been enjoying the discussion about X's fate and how to potentially change it, so I'll let some information free. There are two main possible endings planned for this story, a "Good" ending and a "Bad" ending, both with their own little variations depending on how they're reached. It won't be a matter of one "Make the right choice or die" vote, but instead the ending will be a path slowly chosen through every decision leading up to the end.

So far, you've done pretty well! Keep it up!
 
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Hmm...
Well, let's keep going then! We should probably hear back from Mami eventually regarding Dad...hopefully, and there are plenty of things to do yet still.

Given that Argalia hasn't shown up yet, we should focus on getting X to test her current state out in a combat environment, alongside Sayaka.

But I am wondering about the life lessons part.

Oh, and we also need to tell Sayaka about the delay with Gebura.

Edit: I'll just put this here for now.
[X] (You) Combat Prowess
[X] (Sayaka) Combat Prowess and Life Lessons


There's no reason not to include both at the same time. We all know Sayaka needs some given the job she has chosen anyway.
 
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and Mami is in contention for the most skilled Magical Girl of her generation if not the outright best

First: missing a while after and.

Second: the authors of PMMM said that they consider Mami *a war god* in several interviews, she really is up there in terms of skills.

This is a loss for you. But it's a loss you have to take. Maintaining an illusion of strength isn't even in contention compared to trusting your family

And maintaining an illusion of strength too long is also liable to bite us in the ass, when we have an episode right at the worst possible time and they cannot compensate.

"Yuma's all ready!" the kid says a little bit more cheerfully than normal, before running over to her older sister and throwing her arms around her.

Yuma is best cinnamon roll.

[] (You) One's Own EGO

Hmmm… :thonk:

It does have some interesting potential.

[] (Sayaka) Manifesting EGO

This is what she wants the most, that for sure.

There are two main possible endings planned for this story, a "Good" ending and a "Bad" ending, both with their own little variations depending on how they're reached. It won't be a matter of one "Make the right choice or die" vote, but instead the ending will be a path slowly chosen through every decision leading up to the end.

So we should sell Angela to the Head, tell The Adult we want to help her, make a *best mom* T-Shirt for Carmen, tell Homura she will never be more than a tool, make Madoka wish, take Sayaka to a spectacle of *the little mermaid* with her as the main star, prepare a symphony for Argalia, explain to Kyouko everything she did wrong in her life in great details and ask White Nights and Blue Star for pointers about making your own cult?

There's no way any of this could go wrong, right? :V

Anyway:

[x] (You) One's Own EGO
[x] (Sayaka) Life Lessons
 
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The manifestation of EGO would likely appeal to Sayaka and if it has the same effect as distorting could free here from being a magical girl. While she isn't ready yet she never will be unless we start somewhere and we should be able to avoid a distortion so long as we are careful.

[X] (You) One's Own EGO
[X] (Sayaka) Manifesting EGO
 
I feel like choosing Manifesting EGO for Sayaka is a trap option from what I know about it, Like it requires a sort of personal realization which Life Lessons would help with more...However...From what I've read in these threads (Haven't played LoR), it seems like Gerbura/Kali is the only one that managed to manifest their own ego outside of a extremely stressful scenario, before Carmen light stuff happened. Which could honestly be very valuable to know about in principle just so we know what attaining EGO via training looks like and how to get there.

However, I still think the Life Lessons take priority and the other 2 options are just there to make Sayaka not feel like she's wasting her time.

As for X's options, I'm most interested in One's Own EGO as that might help X with their Abnormality nature, as depending on how that manifests it could help with stabilizing her...or it might poke that rejection factor more, but in either way, It would be good to know.

Also curious because, Abno EGO's are refined before being used as gear for agents from what I understand while Human EGO's are essentially personalized tools and only (so far seen to be) usable by the person with unique effects.
 
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Our own EGO is Lobotomy, right? Doesn't seem wise to focus on what exacerbates our health problems, as determined in this chapter.

Regarding combat prowess, I'm skeptical that a day or two of training will have any noticeable impact. Well, maybe it'll be a bit more useful for Sayaka, but X's EGO weapons come with an instinctive manual.

In general, I don't really like any of Sayaka's votes. Manifesting EGO is obviously the worst one, since she's definitely gonna get zero progress and feel frustrated about it. Also, I don't think manifesting EGO is something you achieve by trying very hard to manifest EGO. It doesn't really work as a self-contained goal.

Life Lessons is fine in principle, but way too vague for me to be comfortable with. Like, sitting in the Language office and talking to Gebura would be a good thing, but it's clearly not what she (and Gebura!) signed up for. Not to mention that the last time Gebura tried giving someone life lessons, they didn't turn out all that well. Maybe someone like Hokma or Angela would be a better choice for this.

Combat Prowess is what Sayaka signed up for, but as I said, it seems kind of useless since we don't really have the time for it.

the other 2 options are just there to make Sayaka not feel like she's wasting her time.
I mean, isn't this about 80% of the reason we decided to take her along in the first place? Which is kind of sad, really, but then again, "feeling like you're wasting your time" is a major occupational hazard for magical girls.
 
To me, Lobotomy seems like X's thing that she does as an abnormality, the representation of the facility's purpose made manifest, and not necessarily the EGO of X the person.

Does that make sense?
 
I feel like choosing Manifesting EGO for Sayaka is a trap option from what I know about it, Like it requires a sort of personal realization which Life Lessons would help with more...

Just pointing out: in quests, *Trap option* has a specific meaning that really isn't what you tell there, it is used in reference to options that punish voters heavily without giving any real indication that it even could lead to that.

As for Life lessons helping more: Gebura is one of the biggest source of knowledge on getting EGO in the setting, if she thinks that manifesting EGO would benefit from life lessons, then it will be what will be worked on, which means that the two aren't the same thing and the lessons are valuable to getting EGO.

I would say Life lessons is probably more about judging situations and getting experience than EGO.

Our own EGO is Lobotomy, right?

That's the thing: probably not.

Lobotomy is what we do, but it isn't who we are, and EGO if the second one.

And even if it is, Gebura is absolutely someone who I can see help us with the fact that we are rejecting it, she did have to accept Mimicry to work with it, and is so adaptable she can use all EGOs with 100% power, bringing out their true potential.

Manifesting EGO is obviously the worst one, since she's definitely gonna get zero progress and feel frustrated about it.

Actually, training is the worst one, because she won't see any progress either and it's not the goal she wants, she wants to be special, to have her own thing, and EGO is the easiest way to that that isn't distortion.
 
Kali awakened her own EGO, but it wasn't without risk. She connected with Nothing There via her Mimicry sword and was on the verge of corruption when confronted with the idea that her killing so many people has corroded her humanity. The one thing that kept her going and pull herself out was by telling herself that everything she did was for the one person that made it all worthwhile.

That person was Carmen.

That's, uh, not really replicable.

On the votes, trying to give Sayaka EGO right now won't go well. Suffering from self-esteem issues will lead to Distortion. And it doesn't really address the issue, just try to pave it over with new toys.

Life lessons are important, but also not what Sayaka is looking for right now. Going to a legendary fighter for combat lessons but only for them to go on about "don't do stupid stuff like this" is a staple of the Old Master trope, but also kind of annoying, and not what we promised her. That stuff is best saved when there's a rapport is built up between the two.

Combat training is what we promised her, and we should keep our promises. It helps develop her fundamental skill while building her confidence in herself. It takes time, but that's just part of the process. This isn't something you can bypass with a quick shortcut or a single conversation. Gotta build herself up.

The thing is that Sayaka wants to feel special. She wants to feel that she can keep up with everyone else, that she's good enough to stick around, to feel worthy. If we just give her some new gear all that worth is gonna to tied to her gear, not herself. She's going to think, "This weapon is strong, having it makes me strong and special and good enough and I need it because without it I am not enough, I am worthless, I am nothing."

That's, uh, not good.

What she needs is to know that she IS good enough, that she has worth and that will never change. She can still find ways to improve herself without being driven by feelings of inadequacy for searching for desperate solutions, to have Hope that she can be a Better Person.

Ironically Sayaka currently has the inadequacy issues that plagued Canon Madoka.

Actually, can we pick more than one option for each? If so...

[X] (You) Combat Prowess
[X] (Sayaka) Combat Prowess and Life Lessons
 
While I can partially agree on the logic behind the combat with life lesson for Sayaka, I still maintain that the best one for us is *One's own EGO*, specifically because of the wording and who is the teacher: Kali did manifest her own EGO, despite using another one, which is an important point for us, we use others EGO all the time, we need to distinguish the difference between what is ours and what isn't, and Kali has experience in that with Mimicry constantly murmuring in her ear.

We don't need combat prowess, we already have options for days on that front and the problems with NT had more to do with the fact that we were trying to not kill her hostages, stopping us from alpha striking without care for how our opponents ends up, than with us being that much weaker than her.

The Adult is not someone you beat with pure strength too, so training our combat prowess is not worth much against her, we want to be smarter, not stronger.
 
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