- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Isn't this the Redemption option but worded differently?
Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy
- Thread starter Blackout
- Start date
- Fantasy
Isn't this the Redemption option but worded differently?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think it's a matter of focus?
Redemption is much more open ended than 'make up for your crimes'.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean... fair enough? They both seem pretty similar, although I agree that 'make up for your crimes' is more specific than 'redemption', even if there's only really one thing I believe Fanriel needs to redeem - which is her crimes.
Also, I agree. It feels like Fanriel cares about getting back to Ulthuan... but doesn't actually care about rectifying what made that mistake in the first place. I suppose that problem is also there with the 'redemption' option, but this one feels more selfish in general since we're not going out of our way to aid people. It's mainly why I chose 'for a new start' - feels like we're trying to become a better person, rather than just making up for our crimes and ignoring the issue in the first place. I doubt we'll ever get rid of 'Dark Curiosity', but curbing it seems like a good idea. Well, that's my interpretation at least.
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Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
Redemption is kind of a hollow goal because what somebody means when they say they want redemption, is that they want to be able to forgive themselves and trying to make up for such a colossal mistake is next to impossible. And a Pardon would also be next to impossible, it would have to take something huge to undo the shame brought upon her name, something bigger than stopping the Everchosen when he pops out.
Killing as many servants of evil as possible is a passable short-term goal for an elf, that is something to focus on for a couple of decades and starting new would be a good long-term goal, but is nebulous enough i'm not sure where it would take us. Still, I'll probably go with one of these.
Killing as many servants of evil as possible is a passable short-term goal for an elf, that is something to focus on for a couple of decades and starting new would be a good long-term goal, but is nebulous enough i'm not sure where it would take us. Still, I'll probably go with one of these.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just because trying to make up for a colossal mistake is impossible doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do so... It's the right thing to do after all if you fucked up. I wouldn't call that hollow at all.
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Killing Chaos servants is the one I'm definitely not a fan of, personally. It seems way more bloodthirsty then we've presented so far, and also just kind of grimdark/edgy.
Words cannot convey the sheer level of feral glee this update inspired in me.
We landed a good contract and Dorial got to show off why he's a Bladelord and remain cryptic - as is his wont and that was great. But the highlight for me was Fanriel's companions - I absolutely lose it (in a good way) whenever the Swordmasters get screen time (I'm so invested in them, to quote that Narnia meme - I was there when they were writtten). I love Fanriel interacting with them, I love them interacting with each other... I love all of them and everything about them. The fact that they're all fan creations is just icing on the wonderfully electic cake that is the mix of backgrounds and home kingdoms in the squad. And we got character interaction over Asur Diplomacy which is unbelievably cool.
I had to read the update four or five times over before looking at anything else because I kept on getting so excited that I wanted to read it all over again. You're doing an amazing job, Blackout.
We landed a good contract and Dorial got to show off why he's a Bladelord and remain cryptic - as is his wont and that was great. But the highlight for me was Fanriel's companions - I absolutely lose it (in a good way) whenever the Swordmasters get screen time (I'm so invested in them, to quote that Narnia meme - I was there when they were writtten). I love Fanriel interacting with them, I love them interacting with each other... I love all of them and everything about them. The fact that they're all fan creations is just icing on the wonderfully electic cake that is the mix of backgrounds and home kingdoms in the squad. And we got character interaction over Asur Diplomacy which is unbelievably cool.
I had to read the update four or five times over before looking at anything else because I kept on getting so excited that I wanted to read it all over again. You're doing an amazing job, Blackout.
F4OAXB
A Downward Spiral
- Location
- Ireland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Considering this doesn't have to be our final goal. I feel like that at this point we should have a nebulous or short sighted goal. While making a new start is probably the smart and only real thing we could do, it's really boring and kinda skips a whole lot of character development, imo.
killing servants of evil or trying to find redemption seems exactly what an elf would feel right after making a colossal fuck up. Skiping straight to 'Welp, guess I'll just have to move on' in a couple of weeks is kinda ridiculous considering the memory and life-span of an elf.
We can make a new start after some character development.
killing servants of evil or trying to find redemption seems exactly what an elf would feel right after making a colossal fuck up. Skiping straight to 'Welp, guess I'll just have to move on' in a couple of weeks is kinda ridiculous considering the memory and life-span of an elf.
We can make a new start after some character development.
Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
Sorry, what I meant by that it's 'hollow' in that the kind of self-forgiveness that is never truly earned by just doing something, or even a lot of somethings. Redemption of this scale, or of any scale really, is never given or achieved, it's something you can spend an eternity searching for only to realize that you've either reached it already and only by looking back can you now see it, or that you never could have had it because you could never let go.
So that's what I mean by hollow, it's a goal, even a worthy goal, but it's more than likely an realization at the end of a long and hard road. Still, it's good for a story.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
and nd if a graduate of the White Tower couldn't pull back -> and if a graduate of the White Tower couldn't pull back
Finding redemption/killing servants of evil aren't moving on, though? We literally got a chapter where Fanriel describes how she represses her guilt and memory of the incident by doing something. Finding redemption and killing servants of the Chaos Gods are that 'something'. I'm not personally invested in the 'Kill servants of the Chaos God' myself... but it's not out of character for Fanriel whatsoever, nor is it skipping anything.
This doesn't have to be our final goal, yes... but by that, I assume that it'll warp and change as we stay in the Old World, rather than it not being our final goal because it's inherently a short-term goal. All of these are goals that could occupy us for a long time. Like, I doubt Fanriel set out for the Old World with her overarching goal being 'get some food'... sure, it most definitely is on the list - probably a priority, even - but it's also most definitely not her main motivating factor.
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Yeah, it's best to see this less as what we want her end goal to be and more how we want her motive at the start to be. Like Blackout said this isn't set in stone, but it is the honest truth at the moment for why she set out as a merc and what she wants to do with her life. Whether that's atonement, redeeming herself to herself and/or others, being an Elf version of a Slayer, making a new start, repressing her thoughts, or just being aimless.
How do you want her to start as?
F4OAXB
A Downward Spiral
- Location
- Ireland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I know, that's my point. I find it weird for an elf to 'move on' from a massive mistake they made in only a couple of weeks. Considerign the size of our fuck up, just moving on right after or even being in the mind space to 'just move on' is shallow. If we want to actually characterise an elf then we should be obsessed with redemption/murdering evil. At least for a little bit.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But... we haven't moved on? Nor are we trying to? Fanriel's just not addressing the issue directly by not thinking about it, which is a major part of her character. She does this by immersing herself in her work, and working towards whatever her goal is - if she has one, that is.
Macros
omnisciently vague councilman
- Location
- Dirac Sea
I tend to go toward Redemption, maybe because of the vagueness of it. As was said, one can't simply fix the colossal mistake Lanriel made, but she should certainly want to try - even if the road ahead seems impossible, or even if she has no idea who she's seeking redemption from - the Phoenix Throne, her companions, herself, the Gods?
Fresh Start sounds maybe a bit too calous to set as a goal straight away - it can be interpreted as a way to brush things aside and not look back on what happened - which is certainly tempting, and perhaps even healthy in some way, but maybe not a state of minde Lanriel should feel right now.
Return to Ulthuan kind of seems the worst answer - as other have pointed out, it seems to brush aside what forced her to leave in the first place. Killing Chaos might be a tad too bloodthirsty. Nothing against Making Up for Crimes - which is quite close from Redemption - but it sounds maybe a little too transactional to my ears.
Anyway, here's my two cents about the topic. Really enjoyed this update, and the rest of the quest so far, and I can't wait to see how it will develop!
Fresh Start sounds maybe a bit too calous to set as a goal straight away - it can be interpreted as a way to brush things aside and not look back on what happened - which is certainly tempting, and perhaps even healthy in some way, but maybe not a state of minde Lanriel should feel right now.
Return to Ulthuan kind of seems the worst answer - as other have pointed out, it seems to brush aside what forced her to leave in the first place. Killing Chaos might be a tad too bloodthirsty. Nothing against Making Up for Crimes - which is quite close from Redemption - but it sounds maybe a little too transactional to my ears.
Anyway, here's my two cents about the topic. Really enjoyed this update, and the rest of the quest so far, and I can't wait to see how it will develop!
I believe that's the implication they got with the "start a new life" motive, that Fanriel is already trying to move on and that her focus is not on making amends.
I know from what you said that you want it to be more like Fanriel being a better her, but that can be covered in making up for her crimes and redemption.
EDIT:
And besides, we're a Loremaster. Their whole thing is to pursue perfection through trying to master all areas and learn as much as we can, regardless of how impossible the task is.
Also speaking of which, trying to put some more effort into improving our swordsmanship skills could be good. And amusingly might make the quest name misleading b/c if we pursue that route instead of improving our magic we pretty much become a Swordmaster that happens to know some magic
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taovkool
Forever Gone
- Location
- The Library, Department of General Works
Okay, back up for a bit. What in the world are they teaching kids in Ulthuan? That the dwarfs kills elves just for shits and giggle?
The shaving of the dwarven diplomats and the son of the dawi high king at the time deciding to genocide an entire elven colony because he was angry happened at around the same time, overall canon leaves it ambiguous as to which happened first. Both incidents absolutely happened though and it's very easy to see how they led to a full-blown war.
Blackout ruled earlier in the quest that the Dawi teach their kids that the elves struck first whilst the Asur teach the opposite but that no one actually can prove it either way. So it's part in world historical revisionism (which we know the Dawi and Asur canonically did about the things they gained from cultural exchange regardless - the Dawi erasing any mention that Asur mages helped them create specific runes come to mind) and part just avoiding stupid arguments in the comment sections about who started the war or not.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
She might be thinking of the Drucchi starting it, or she might be thinking of a Dwarf attack (the War of Vengeance novels have the Dwarfs attack a settlement before the Ambassador is shaved, though that isn't present in other versions)
In general, the Elves certainly aren't going to be taught a version of the story where they were in the wrong.
Side note, Fanriel got a +10 modifier on the diplomacy for 'passing the test'; wonder what that was? Avoiding the more destructive options (cannons, Ogres)?
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For reference, you can find Blackout's write up of what the Asur and Dawi's respective versions of the history say by following the link in the quote below.
More like just proving we know our shit. The man is a merchant lord, not a general so really it was about him having us come up with a plan and reasoning good enough so not even an amateur like him could find holes in it. And the worst he could find is that we might be too cautious, which again, shows that he's an amateur general.
Darik29
Verified Delicious
I say redemption and a pardon plus return to Ulthuan is honestly a grand idea. Fanriel genuinely feels terrible about what happened, and if it takes centuries i can see her doing her damndest to make up for what she did and seek to make things up to her family and friends.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] You want to earn redemption.
[X] You want to make up for your crimes.
I don't think Fanriel is against a new start, but at the core she wants to make up for what she did.
[X] You want to make up for your crimes.
I don't think Fanriel is against a new start, but at the core she wants to make up for what she did.
- Pronouns
- He
[X] You want to make a new start.
[X] You want to make up for your crimes.
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