The cup has now been drunk almost to the dregs, the sword not red with blood but black for how many times it has been spilled and only the staff is left to hold in place the Wheel."
For Exalted Raksha, Temperance is represented by the Ring. It's associated with identity, purpose, rules of conduct. It's the one by which they self-define themselves through oaths like "I will never tell a lie".
Exalted Raksha also have a fifth, though: the Heart, associated with Willpower.
(one of the splatbooks tried a sixth, the Way, associated with Perception, but let's ignore that.)
She and hers were made in part using gossamer. It's not that deep a lore. Exalted Raksha are still adjacent to Creation. Beyond Outer Gates lies not the Wyld, but Oblivion it seems.
... At least we are not conversing in Old realm, and she's not calling us Prince of Earth.
Anything that specific from the age of legends qualifies in my book. It's not like there are any mint condition sane Rakasha* around to talk to, and even if there were they didn't really talk about this stuff. Exalts got it from their bullshit, and players know it mostly from how it defines their char sheets/mechanics , but the fair folk didn't exactly post medical papers on their spiritual biology to Creation at large.
It suggests a lot of research, insider status in their culture, actual biological/spiritual lineage**, or some combination thereof.
* the closest known example being that thing in Cleveland which mutated into something else a long time ago.
This is a good point, and may be the critical issue to the implication of imbalance we got from the hint on summer gradually making winter colder as a metaphysical consequence of their interactions.
Forgetting that would be a crazy oversight if this theory holds water, so something either stopped them or broke that bit so throughly she didn't mention it.
Given the Winter-Summer balancing act has real power beyond the political, maybe they invested temperance into the binding, but did it too completely and left the courts off balance in a way that's slowly been pushing them towards their respective extremes.
It might also be part of what was spent to make them different. Rakasha can lie and break casual promises, depending on how they defined themselves, the DF fey physically can't. Perhaps their ancestors changed naturally, or ritually gave up control of their own temperance in exchange for their continued existence in reality.
Any mortal who saw that would be hit hard by the uncanny valley, even if they do not understand all of it they would instinctively grasp the inhumanity that went into that conversation
Bob would not be meh, he would be excited as hell. The only thing Bob loves more than D-Cups is ancient and hidden lore
Any mortal who saw that would be hit hard by the uncanny valley, even if they do not understand all of it they would instinctively grasp the inhumanity that went into that conversation
He might try, though it is debatable to what extent he would succeed, he'd be very excited, this is the sort of knowledge no spirit of his standing could dream of holding normally.
[X] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
Dammit, we could have done "freely given save that the fact that I was able to retrieve and provide this information not be used against me" or something like that. Well I guess we still can for the "how likely are they to know" question
COMMENTARY
Okay, thats confirmation.
The Fae are Shaped Raksha, or at least descended from Shaped Raksha.
Thats a major supernatural secret.
Green Sun That Was Before The Sun.
Mab has that deep lore, even if it is self-evidently incomplete. Also a major supernatural secret.
We can probably figure out what she knows with an appropriate focus.
One of those is going to proc for +2 Essence regeneration.
I wonder if the Smoking Sun, which is supposed to be what's left of Sol Invictus in ExWoD, is out there in the NeverNever somewhere. Maybe the original Incarna are still around in some form in the NeverNever in a much diminished Yu-Shan, playing video games on the couch.
Dragon Kings are probably out there somewhere as well.
Gonna note that Mab's reaction was rage. Not fear.
That sort of insight is very useful.
I also note we just informed the Archive that there is a major nemesis infection in Winter's court and gave her the list of names. That's something that happens when you write something down.
No we didn't. I checked before writing that stunt.
Even if Mab's presence doesnt block that particular power, we just wrote three names down. We didn't write down anything about what links them.
Ivy might figure it out, but that would require more information than we just wrote down.
Note that Donald Morgan is WAY more explicit in the Journal micro fiction, where he writes down explicit allegations that Nemesis is on the Senior Council in his diary entry:
Despite my promise to Margaret, I failed to protect her son.
I tracked him and his father until the time of Malcolm's death. To this day, I'm not sure who killed him. I suppose it's possible that Malcolm's death was natural, but given this child's ongoing misfortune it seems clear to me that he has been marked with an Adversary from the moment of his birth.
Malcolm died while I was on mission elsewhere. I arrived less than ten hours after the child went into the foster care system, and someone made him vanish. Magically, physically, bureaucratically. There was no trace of him, and I searched for years.
That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could.
From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.
The child apparently murdered Justin in something very like a duel, and I am unsure if I am more frightened by the prospect that it was a deception to simulate Justin's death — or if it wasn't.
Given what is at stake, it would have been better to remove the child from play — but the Blackstaff couldn't let his daughter's son be neutralized. So I tracked him. I hounded him. I pushed him, constantly, in an attempt to draw out any controls that may have been emplaced — or any corruption of black magic that he might have been concealing. Even now, I cannot be sure that he is not the monster we all fear, in the process of being born.
But the enemy has invaded the Senior Council itself. And, regardless of his true allegiance, Dresden is not ensnared in the web of conflicts between them, and has both the inclination and the strength to defy them, at least for a time. Until I am certain where to lay the blame for LaFortier's death, I will seek his assistance. Given who he is, he will have little choice but to give it. If nothing else, the pressure might show me his true colors.
Readers rejoice, for this week, we bring you the Year of Dresden’s second never-before-seen Microfiction! We also have another fabulous array of images to inspire you to enter the Fanart Cont…
That said, I do think it's fair to say Nemesis isn't necessarily locked at Fallen Angel level. They're powerful, but they're shadows of what they were. Anduriel was also a 'regular' Angel, and I think Nemesis is closer to Uriel in aggregate. Haven't found the WoJ I thought I saw that in again yet though.
I remember the WoJ you're thinking of; its from a Reddit AMA, and I think its been misinterpreted.
It says Nemesis, and the Walkers, are similar to Uriel, not that they are of the same power.
I quote:
7: Did He Who Walks Behind slow down time around the clerk who tried to run in Ghost Story? If no, how was he slowed down?
EDIT: Why could Harry understand Sharkface's name while He Who Walks Behind's name was just an impression that HWWB gave him?
7) HHWB, being a Walker, is an outsider on a power level similar to Uriel. He can do all KINDS of stuff. But also has a lot of weird limits as to when and where he can use his power.
That seems to imply that they/he's the Outsider equivalent of the archangel Uriel, who is the covert ops archangel.
They fill the same spot on the Outsider org chart that Uriel fills on the White God's org chart.
It doesnt however say that they are anywhere as powerful as an archangel, or even an angel.
And even then, they have additional restrictions on what they can do.
===
Source:
As to Heaven and Hell specifically; that's a political conflict. The fallen don't want the outsiders around any more than the upright ones do. They only counter each other to advance their agendas, and both think too long term to take a risk like meddling with the security at the gates.
If you ask me? You can tell a lot about a faction's implied threat by who their enemies are.
Hell is opposed by angels and archangels, both indirectly, and literally in the case of the Swords.
The Outer Gates are defended by the Winter Court and the Gatekeeper against the Outsiders.
One threat requires the attention of angels and archangels and all the companies of heaven, even if the primary actors at the sharp end are human.
The other appears to be opposed almost entirely by human and human-descended defenders.
One threat requires ongoing vigilance by the angels for cheating and attempts to break the rules, which attract a forfeit.
The other, not so much. Nemesis appears too low-powered, or too hard-coded, to break the rules.
Fair enough.
It occurs to me that if she has this much inkling of the deep lore of this setting, she's a lot more likely to believe that Ancient Sorcery does what we say it does. So offering Sapphire Exorcism should be easier.
===== VOTE [X] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
Presuming that Mab didn't just know about the Green Sun off the top of her head and the name she used really does speak of a translation as others have pointed out it wouldn't be too far a stretch to suspect that Mab had a bit of a fact-finding mission in the lead up to this meeting.
Perhaps she has in her possession written lore referring to the Green Sun, maybe written in Old Realm and someone in her service able to provide a serviceable translation.
Further, whatever the source of the information it lead to the connection with Ligier and not the caste marks of Celestial Exalted in general.
This says to me that whatever her source of information it is focused more on Malfeas or at least ancient demonology in general.
It would be much to hope that any writings of Creation survived whatever reordering happened but the source of her information intrigues me.
Maybe something from a later age that still remembered Creation if only in story?
Presuming that Mab didn't just know about the Green Sun off the top of her head and the name she used really does speak of a translation as others have pointed out it wouldn't be too far a stretch to suspect that Mab had a bit of a fact-finding mission in the lead up to this meeting.
Perhaps she has in her possession written lore referring to the Green Sun, maybe written in Old Realm and someone in her service able to provide a serviceable translation.
Further, whatever the source of the information it lead to the connection with Ligier and not the caste marks of Celestial Exalted in general.
This says to me that whatever her source of information it is focused more on Malfeas or at least ancient demonology in general.
It would be much to hope that any writings of Creation survived whatever reordering happened but the source of her information intrigues me.
Maybe something from a later age that still remembered Creation if only in story?
I mean you are talking about the Raksha and you did meet something your power insisted on calling that and if you recall the thing in the lake she also called it a living story. Just a reminder of other hints along the quest that Molly herself would have recalled . Also in the immediate post-Exaltation haze Usum called the fey that. Put all those together and it implied that of the time before legend and tale there survived at least... the sentient legends and tales in some form.
[X] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
[X] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
[X] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
It occurs to me that this is an excellent way to mask the exact functions of the crown.
Ancient sorcery is BS, but it's not nearly as easy and cheap to use as the crown. Supposing she knows anything of it she's also be aware that what remains is very weird and circumstantial. For every unblockable portal there are two spells for stuff like summoning angry birds or raining spiders on a mile radius AoE. So a potential info sorcery under the quest house rules could be very good*, but not as threatening or tempting as the crown.
Not that we can outright say it, but the implication could go far given the context.
* Unrelated, but there's something for us to think about for our next big combat buy.
We've talked about this before, and it definitely has its uses. The problems are in the limits
thousandFold typhoon hand (••••)
The Infernal moves so quickly she seems to split into a bewildering array of simultaneous phantoms, all
striking against a single doomed opponent.
System: Reflexively spend at least 1 Essence. At the end of the turn, after all characters have taken their actions, the character may make two additional attacks at her full dice pool per point of Essence spent. She can make no more extra attacks than her Athletics rating (minimum 1).
These must all be directed at the same opponent.
214
Signature Effect: While in her Shintai form, Thousandfold Typhoon Hand may be used to make extra attacks against multiple targets.
You have to spend for every use, it's capped by athletics, and can only hit one target. It's also 16 exp not counting the athletics buys needed to make the most use of it.
There's a sorcery I overlooked as weird and sort of useless though that's better early on snd synergies well later:
the tree's many BranChes
As the sorcerer gathers her Essence and casts this spell, tree branches sprout from her torso. At the spell's culmination, the bark of these branches cracks and explodes, revealing additional arms that precisely match the Exalt's original limbs.
System: Spend 3 Essence and make an extended Intelligence + Occult roll against difficulty 7. Once the player accumulates five successes, the sorcerer grows additional sets of arms equal to her Essence rating for the rest of the scene. Whenever the sorcerer takes multiple actions using her new limbs, each subsequent action raises its difficulty as normal but doesn't suffer a penalty to its dice pool. If the sorcerer has three or more sets of additional arms, she can make up to two attacks per turn by using multiple actions, rather than being limited to only one attack per turn as normal.
If we hit E3, then this would give us two attacks a turn for a full scene at full dice with no target restrictions and all the potential of getting our full dice pool for any additional action that uses our hands for 10 exp. Later if we get both then we can use it to probe which of multiple targets is worth spending an essence to shred.
Out of combat I'd be curious to see if it could be leveraged to improve our crafting speed or throughput. With the usual suspects we could have around in the lab we'd be rolling 20 dice against Diff 3 without stunting, so it probably would take more than the one phase of the extended roll to rev it up.
For combat prep we'd still probably be at 20 dice against diff 6 most of the time with a stunt, so it's a safe bet they're as well.
I'd also argue that since you keep getting arms anyway as essence goes up, and that more arms gives a better buff under the logic of the spell that E4 and E5 should give some advantage via house rule. Especially since they're significant ones. Maybe an extra attack, a flat reduction of the difficulty increase from actions with the extra arms, or something like that.
For added fun it'd also give an excuse for crazy stunts. Arguably Usum is supposed to always be in our hand when we need him with no time cost, but it doesn't say which hand in the description. So we could possibly stunt him impossibly teleporting or briefly existing in multiple spots for flavor.
Or experiment with carrying around lesser melee tools that can do damage and provide some flexibility. Like a taser-dagger controlled by cyber devil so that we can stab, deliver less lethal shocks, or stab and deliver extra lethal shocks.
Just wanted to bring it up since we were talking about build stuff for the vote after this one.
It doesnt however say that they are anywhere as powerful as an archangel, or even an angel.
And even then, they have additional restrictions on what they can do.
It does directly say power level though, and mentions weird restrictions being why it does things the way it does.
That doesn't scream org chart equivalent only to me.
[] Plan Ancient Slight of Hand Sorcery
-[] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
-[] Mention the ritual of exorcism and its potential as a treatment before things move any further.
-[] [Stunt] Matching her gaze once more Molly steels herself against the certainty she feels in the power - the legacy - she has grasped. "It is unlikely that they know they've been found so directly, but they may know I've some knowledge of the general shape of the plot. Though there is a one more thing they almost certainly do not know."
—[] For a moment she can almost see the ziggurat again, feel the glyphs as she'd once traced them with her hand. Something she allows the barest hint of to leak into her eyes.
—[] As she speaks, a brazen light glimmers kindles into a subtle presence on her forehead. It's neither light nor dark, but it is absolutely steady and utterly uncaring of mundane obstructions.
—-[] " For this most serious purpose alone will I share this with you. It should be no surprise that I have access to Elder knowledge. Among that lies what is needed to set right all unnatural joinings of spirit - even this one"
—-[] Her voice did not drip with sweet venom, nor burn with power, but for a moment it seems to make the shadows shiver and light waver as something that cannot break traces across a world that can. "It is not always without physical consequences, but it is survivable with preparation and it will break any control of the mind, cast out any possession of the spirit, and cut out any usurpation of the senses regardless of the will or power of target."
[] Plan Ancient Sorcery
-[] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
-[] Mention the ritual of exorcism and its potential as a treatment before things move any further.
-[] [Stunt] Matching her gaze once more Molly steels herself against the certainty she feels in the power - the legacy - she has grasped. "It is unlikely that they know they've been found so directly, but they may know I've some knowledge of the general shape of the plot. Though there is a one more thing they almost certainly do not know."
—[] For a moment she can almost see the ziggurat again, feel the glyphs as she'd once traced them with her hand.
—[] As she speaks, a brazen light glimmers briefly on her forehead, a subtle taste of bronze gone as quickly as it came.
—-[] " For this most serious purpose alone will I share this with you. It is within my power to set right all unnatural joinings of spirit - even this one"
—-[] Her voice did not drip with sweet venom, nor burn with power, but for a moment it seems to make the shadows shiver and light waver as something that cannot break traces across a world that can. "It is not always without physical consequences, but it is survivable with preparation and it will break any control of the mind, cast out any possession of the spirit, and cut out any usurpation of the senses regardless of the will or power of target."
Two versions here. The first is intended to loosely connect the ideas of the crown's function to the ancient sorcery we talk about next. It does fall close to the category of oversharing to establish a lie that I mentioned while talking to @Yog which is something to keep an eye on and that I'm open to changing if the consensus is unfavorable.
I'm just tempted by the opportunity, since AS is good but weird and limited in a way that's useful cover for our much spicer abilities.
That said there is still exposure because it tells her we have some way to translate that vast store of lore she knows we have per our original discussion into power.
So the second plan just snips all that out. Both versions go into some details on the capabilities of SRoE though, because we're now selling medical treatment of her daughter so we can't hide as much and get a positive response.
We already voted to share something about this, so the goal here is just to shape it and to spud Mab getting a head of steam going prior to hearing our potential offer.
Since we basically have confirmation that the Shaped Raksha became the fey, I wonder what happened to the Fair Folk adjacent races from Creation? Did the Jade Born transform into the dwarves? Is the reason their work is so great because they still hold lore from the First Age?
Honestly, at this point I don't much care what Mab thinks about where we got the info from. Just tell her what we can do, and see if she acts against us later.
Anyway, Mab has ancient lore, but it's pretty distorted. Green Sun was only ever Ligier, and not any of the exalted. The "Before-the-Sun" thing is definitely a later addition, as he and Sol Invictus were contemporaries. If I was to guess, such a name could be given to him by some manner of descendants of demons / humans inhabiting Malfeas who fled its death. It would also not surprise me to learn that Mab found some Dragonblooded family.
On fae being Raksha and having graces - they are not. Mab was human. I would guess that the Winter Court itself could probably be a raksha, though that would make it... big, story-wise. I mean, Primordial-big even. Maybe mantles are mutilated and transformed raksha? I mean, that would sorta kinda make sense.
[X] It is very unlikely those named or other instances of the infiltrators would know about the name, though they might know you suspect the general shape of the plot
Honestly, at this point I don't much care what Mab thinks about where we got the info from. Just tell her what we can do, and see if she acts against us later.
Anyway, Mab has ancient lore, but it's pretty distorted. Green Sun was only ever Ligier, and not any of the exalted. The "Before-the-Sun" thing is definitely a later addition, as he and Sol Invictus were contemporaries. If I was to guess, such a name could be given to him by some manner of descendants of demons / humans inhabiting Malfeas who fled its death. It would also not surprise me to learn that Mab found some Dragonblooded family.
On fae being Raksha and having graces - they are not. Mab was human. I would guess that the Winter Court itself could probably be a raksha, though that would make it... big, story-wise. I mean, Primordial-big even. Maybe mantles are mutilated and transformed raksha? I mean, that would sorta kinda make sense.
No we didn't. I checked before writing that stunt.
Even if Mab's presence doesnt block that particular power, we just wrote three names down. We didn't write down anything about what links them.
The chapter doesn't mention Mab destroying the note yet.
We could use it as a focus to ask who knows what we wrote in it.
That at least would give us a lead on the Archive's existence.
Honestly, at this point I don't much care what Mab thinks about where we got the info from. Just tell her what we can do, and see if she acts against us later.
Anyway, Mab has ancient lore, but it's pretty distorted. Green Sun was only ever Ligier, and not any of the exalted. The "Before-the-Sun" thing is definitely a later addition, as he and Sol Invictus were contemporaries. If I was to guess, such a name could be given to him by some manner of descendants of demons / humans inhabiting Malfeas who fled its death. It would also not surprise me to learn that Mab found some Dragonblooded family.
On fae being Raksha and having graces - they are not. Mab was human. I would guess that the Winter Court itself could probably be a raksha, though that would make it... big, story-wise. I mean, Primordial-big even. Maybe mantles are mutilated and transformed raksha? I mean, that would sorta kinda make sense.
The chapter doesn't mention Mabe destroying the note yet.
We could use it as a focus to ask who knows what we wrote in it.
That at least would give us a lead on the Archive's existence.
?
?
