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Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy

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On an unrelated note, I like Guns and Gladiators since it all rounds out to a nice 720 men total.
-200 Swordsmen
-200 Kossars
-65 Dwarf Warriors
-100 Handgunners
-140 Gladiators
-1 Mage and their 2 Ogre bodyguards
-1 Loremaster and their retinue of 11 Swordmasters
 
720=90×80, granting the support of 2 Chaos gods in the fight - no wait :rofl:
You people have convinced me to swap in he Silver Prophet instead of the Frostseekers. Someone that can do spell work while we go with the vanguard on the rescue mission
Thus I will vote for
[X] Plan Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
The Nuln Ironsides can help. Gunpowder volleys are never to discount, and they are armoured.
 
Netos said:
You people have convinced me to swap in he Silver Prophet instead of the Frostseekers. Someone that can do spell work while we go with the vanguard on the rescue mission
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Not gonna lie, I have strong reservations when it comes to the wizard. Not only is he human (ergo, weak willed), unaccustomed to the strong Winds from the Chaos Wastes and the corruption, that the Changer whispers with them, but also his main trick is to summon Daemons to do his bidding, which is really, really risky up North, not to mention the fact, that it may make us look bad for consorting with someone like that.

Also, keep in mind, that any plan we pick should include at least 1 of the Kislevite units (the more the better). Local pride and such, for to suggest that none of the locals are good enough for the job is a bad way of saying, that foreigners are better than them.
 
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Sertorius said:
Not gonna lie, I have strong reservations when it comes to the wizard. Not only is he human (ergo, weak willed), unaccustomed to the strong Winds from the Chaos Wastes and the corruption, that the Changer whispers with them, but also his main trick is to summon Daemons to do his bidding, which is really, really risky up North, not to mention the fact, that it may make us look bad for consorting with someone like that.
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I'm pretty sure almost none of this is true. Like, the Djinn are almost certainly elemental spirits rather than daemons (canon isn't 100% clear but, uh, all evidence points that way), not all men are weak willed, and as others have mentioned, their basic magical style shouldn't be as effected by the Winds as most are. Some of it is stuff most elves might believe, but Fanriel is pretty cosmopolitan and extremely well educated and wouldn't make that mistake.

Sertorius said:
Also, keep in mind, that any plan we pick should include at least 1 on the Kisletive units (the more the better). Local pride and such, for to suggest that none of the locals are good enough for the job is a bad way of saying, that foreigners are better than them.
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This is probably correct, yeah. Also, both Kislevite units are actually quite good, especially the Grim Bears, who tie with the Stirland Strikers for longest range and almost match them for numbers while still having melee chops as well. Sure, they're not actually as good at range, but still.
 
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[X] Plan Guns and Gladiators

A well balanced plan, and Fanriel&dawi and Fanriel&Prophet seem like fun scenes.
 
[X] Plan Guns and Gladiators
-[X] The Coinshields
-[X] The Magnificent Maestros of Magritta
-[X] The Pale Spirits
-[X] The 8th Grim Bears
-[X] The 3rd Nuln Ironsides
-[X] The Silver Prophet
 
DragonParadox said:
He might if we are willing to trade him for it. That is what he is out here for after all, to improve his studies.
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This seems possible to me as well. Swapping magical lore is definitely something we want to consider depending on our read on the Prophet.

Sertorius said:
There is also the matter of accepting the fact, that a human has anything to teach us... which is downright degrading.
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Not really. We know humans with battle magic exist and we don't have battle magic. Fanriel would need to be flat out delusional to not admit there are humans who know specific spells she doesn't. They're far inferior to Asur in terms of teachers, of course, but she's not exactly spoiled for choice here.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Not really. We know humans with battle magic exist and we don't have battle magic. Fanriel would need to be flat out delusional to not admit there are humans who know specific spells she doesn't. They're far inferior to Asur in terms of teachers, of course, but she's not exactly spoiled for choice here.
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Aye, but being an Elf she would have second and third thoughts about actually asking a human to teach her. Much more logical would be simply to observe and look for inspiration to develop our own spells.
 
Sertorius said:
Aye, but being an Elf she would have second and third thoughts about actually asking a human to teach her. Much more logical would be simply to observe and look for inspiration to develop our own spells.
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Refusing to learn from someone out of pride is both bad scholarship and kind of impious given that Fanriel is a servant of Hoeth above other gods, I think we are fine learning from humans, especially since for this one thing even Dark Curiosity pulls the right way.
 
Sertorius said:
Aye, but being an Elf she would have second and third thoughts about actually asking a human to teach her. Much more logical would be simply to observe and look for inspiration to develop our own spells.
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As DragonParadox says, Pride is not Fanriel's besetting sin, Curiosity is. If given ways to learn new things, turning them down due to pride is not something she's likely to even contemplate. She's certainly arrogant, but it's not nearly as central to her character as you're suggesting.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I'm pretty sure almost none of this is true. Like, the Djinn are almost certainly elemental spirits rather than daemons (canon isn't 100% clear but, uh, all evidence points that way), not all men are weak willed, and as others have mentioned, their basic magical style shouldn't be as effected by the Winds as most are. Some of it is stuff most elves might believe, but Fanriel is pretty cosmopolitan and extremely well educated and wouldn't make that mistake.
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Fair enough, although I'd still prefer the more reliable crossbows instead of him. 200 extra men pouring steady fire into a lighly armored enemy is a boon.
 
Sertorius said:
Fair enough, although I'd still prefer the more reliable crossbows instead of him. 200 extra men pouring steady fire into a lighly armored enemy is a boon.
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It's tempting, but Guns and Gladiators is a street fighting plan, and the crossbowmen are severely hampered in that environment. We could leave them guarding the ships but that's just not ideal for various reasons. And we need artillery of some sort, so either the Prophet or the cannons, and the cannons have significantly more down sides, I think, while the Prophet can help more in dealing with shamans and other spellcasters.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is a fair point but the issue is I do not think we have the money to hire hundreds of men. Trading spells is a lot easier to do when you are broke, but know (by humans standards) advanced magic.
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
It's tempting, but Guns and Gladiators is a street fighting plan, and the crossbowmen are severely hampered in that environment. We could leave them guarding the ships but that's just not ideal for various reasons. And we need artillery of some sort, so either the Prophet or the cannons, and the cannons have significantly more down sides, I think, while the Prophet can help more in dealing with shamans and other spellcasters.
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Keep in mind, that currently we have 100 gunners and the hybrid Kossars for ranged fire. That's it. While strong in the melee departement, our ranged capabilites are relatively weak and it is always more beneficial to eliminate at a distance. The Prophet won't be throwing fireballs left and right due to the prisoners we have to save (plus the cargo), much like the cannons. Crossbows are obviously a suporting unit that is not meant to fight in melee, therefore they will be firing from the back when possible. That is where combined arms comes into play. They can fire over the Dwarfs for instance with relative impunity. The more enemies we kill at a distance, the fewer casaulties we shall suffer.
 
Sertorius said:
Keep in mind, that currently we have 100 gunners and the hybrid Kossars for ranged fire. That's it. While strong in the melee departement, our ranged capabilites are relatively weak and it is always more beneficial to eliminate at a distance. The Prophet won't be throwing fireballs left and right due to the prisoners we have to save (plus the cargo), much like the cannons. Crossbows are obviously a suporting unit that is not meant to fight in melee, therefore they will be firing from the back when possible. That is where combined arms comes into play. They can fire over the Dwarfs for instance with relative impunity. The more enemies we kill at a distance, the fewer casaulties we shall suffer.
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Depending on what he has ranged magic can be a lot more reliable than a hail of crossbow bolts in not shooting prisoners.
 
Sertorius said:
Keep in mind, that currently we have 100 gunners and the hybrid Kossars for ranged fire. That's it. While strong in the melee departement, our ranged capabilites are relatively weak and it is always more beneficial to eliminate at a distance. The Prophet won't be throwing fireballs left and right due to the prisoners we have to save (plus the cargo), much like the cannons. Crossbows are obviously a suporting unit that is not meant to fight in melee, therefore they will be firing from the back when possible. That is where combined arms comes into play. They can fire over the Dwarfs for instance with relative impunity. The more enemies we kill at a distance, the fewer casaulties we shall suffer.
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The Kossars can do the same well enough for street fighting. If it were a field battle, I'd want the Stirland Strikers (and, indeed, Pikes and Prophets, my field battle plan, has them), but for street fighting you can't rely on a situation where we are fighting in ranks and can protect them persisting. Hence the gladiators and more durable or melee capable ranged units.

As for the Prophet, we need them as artillery for taking down monsters and maybe an occasional wall more than anything else, something they can hopefully do with slightly more precision (if nothing else, their Ogre bodyguards can probably knock down smaller walls pretty well).
 
Just to be clear, djinn are not daemons. I know there's apparently some sources that say they are, but that's kinda just boring? It reduces an entire magical tradition down to "they're daemonologists and should be killed on the spot", not to mention it would be impossible for Arabyan Magisters to be allowed to operate openly in Kislev, or for Fanriel to be able to work alongside them.

So I'm much more inclined to dismiss those sources as superstition or daemons masquerading as djinn, and use the sources that portray them as simple elemental spirits, no closer to to daemons than dryads or naiads.
 
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[X] Plan Guns and Gladiators

Having backread discussion, I like this the most for going straight into Jaarpen - it's an aggressive, elite and highly disciplined force that can operate in the kind of urban environment we expect, will (hopefully) flatten the conventional Norscan infantry that gets in our way, can deal with Norscan heavy infantry, has a range advantage and has an answer to the warbeasts and enemy mages.

Maybe a little low on numbers (though the we're there for a speedy raid, not to kill everyone in the settlement and have a well trained force, so it's fine) but one silver lining of that that will make it easier to stay together in the settlement, at least
 
A wooden palisade doesn't need big cannons to get through. It can be pulled down with hooks, chopped with axes, burned/blasted with magic or taken by escalade - all the plans call for a lot of ranged firepower that can suppress defenders on the wall and let us do them. Escalade is fastest.

Full pikes are more awkward than half/boarding pikes to use from ships but if you can manage it they have all the advantages of their length. Boarding pikes let you stab an enemy before they can jump to your ship, full pikes let you get stabbing before the ships have even fully closed. Boarding pikes let you clear a space for your first boarders to jump to, full pikes let ou do that and give them some support. In an opposed landing likewise, as part of combined arms, they can control space ashore without disembarking so that your swordsmen can get to shore then form a strong perimeter to your beach-head.

Nor are pikemen useless up close because they carry swords for exactly that circumstance. A katzbalger or hangar that's good for a pressed infantry fight is exactly what you want for a ship melée.
 
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