Now I am just reminded how nerfed infernals are, they where already the weakest solar level exalted by a lot. But without demon summoning it is so much worse, infernals really needed access to free. unlimited minions to make up the difference.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Vote closed, Mab info time.
Mechanics aside, becoming a living planet is too cool not to do even if we limit the population to a "mere" billion and change.
Say what you want about their power relative to the other celestials, but even the people who can beat them like a cheap drum can't match the sheer swagger of a properly built infernal.
- Location
- Germany
Almost a shame we propably won't see Alchemicals in the quest.
I do love the fantasy/sci-fi fusion, as well as the theme of a much more literal endless growth than most Exalted have, ending with city-sized Alchemicals.
Would be a perfect second for the world-bodied Infernal.
I do love the fantasy/sci-fi fusion, as well as the theme of a much more literal endless growth than most Exalted have, ending with city-sized Alchemicals.
Would be a perfect second for the world-bodied Infernal.
Do Laws of Magic? I mean, this is mostly a joke, but "do not seek beyond the Outer Gates" does restrict the range of our movement... Kinda like gravity restricts us, and thus we might probably try to use CCC when building airplanes / spacecraft.
...
Come to think about it, and a bit more seriously this time, designing, building and operating tunneling equipment might actually fall under CCC conditions, if we think about it just a tiny bit.
5 billion is the number that was negotiated in the end. Comparable, but not exceeding world population.
One can hope still. I mean, in canon ExvsWoD Autochton actually survived till opening of the Black Vault. This is a higher power setting, so one can hope. And I do think that Kemmler's knowledge in this quest might at least partially be from finding slumbering Autochtonia somewhere deep in the Nevernever.
This is unrelated to the current conversation, but it's a potentially noteworthy VEE question and the thread is slow right now, so I'm going to post it in a spoiler.
Edit: errors
Conditional magic is something that can be taken for one to six dots as a merit or flaw. One of the base examples is making your magic especially effective against things that meet a certain condition without making it less effective than others, with a dot rating based on the balance of the ability and the rarity of the target.
Full quote:
I'm not sure if we have the juice to match being a starborn completely, especially since it seem to come with other benefits like generally stronger magic, but if we can close the gap enough to make the targets reliably useful against them things could get spicy.
Especially if the general supernatural shenanigans can be loopholed with specific linear sorceries.
Many forms of DF summoning rely on the caster assembling and partially fueling the ectoplasmic body of their minions for example, so technically all their summons are touched by their power.
If that holds, could a Binder tier summoner whistle up a pack of disposable mooks with anti-outsider buffs and effectively multiply the impact of their merit on the field?
If we want to displace Winter* this is the sort of thing we need to have in our toolkit.
* Or return to the status quo it seems like they were interned to operate under, where gods are up top managing things and the courts aren't effectively alone on the field. Which might be part of what made them go sour; they could very well be the equivalent of sapient combat AI who've been operating without their intended oversight or maintenance for millennia.
If that's true we're lucky they've been as well behaved as they have.
Full quote:
So could we grant a merit that makes someone supernaturally effective against Outsiders? It's noted that they have unusual resistance to stuff from inside reality, which is why you usually need a gimmick like being a starborn to hurt them unless you're really swole.
I'm not sure if we have the juice to match being a starborn completely, especially since it seem to come with other benefits like generally stronger magic, but if we can close the gap enough to make the targets reliably useful against them things could get spicy.
Especially if the general supernatural shenanigans can be loopholed with specific linear sorceries.
Many forms of DF summoning rely on the caster assembling and partially fueling the ectoplasmic body of their minions for example, so technically all their summons are touched by their power.
If that holds, could a Binder tier summoner whistle up a pack of disposable mooks with anti-outsider buffs and effectively multiply the impact of their merit on the field?
If we want to displace Winter* this is the sort of thing we need to have in our toolkit.
* Or return to the status quo it seems like they were interned to operate under, where gods are up top managing things and the courts aren't effectively alone on the field. Which might be part of what made them go sour; they could very well be the equivalent of sapient combat AI who've been operating without their intended oversight or maintenance for millennia.
If that's true we're lucky they've been as well behaved as they have.
I still doubt this; if he had been studying Autobot's work on empowering mortals he'd probably have had access to exaltations or their precursor assembly systems. If he had that stuff he probably would have been a robo god instead of a necromancer, and likely would have had a full circle of exalts behind him.
Edit: errors
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- Location
- Germany
@DragonParadox
Just something I noticed on rereading a bit, did you drop our Castemark?
I think at the very beginning we had a sign upon our brow like most Exalted, but that hasn't ever shown up since then.
Not when showing our school-friends what we are or as a mention in any situation where we show our Anima or even before that.
I couldn't even say what it looked like right now.
Just something I noticed on rereading a bit, did you drop our Castemark?
I think at the very beginning we had a sign upon our brow like most Exalted, but that hasn't ever shown up since then.
Not when showing our school-friends what we are or as a mention in any situation where we show our Anima or even before that.
I couldn't even say what it looked like right now.
You would have to somehow conceptualize the earth as a prison, Molly does not at the moment
No, it's still there. Funnily enough it's going to show up in the next update
I freely admit I am reaching, but Autochton (especially, and I hope that's not the case, Neverborn Autochton) has death themes. And whatever he did / learned to make Lydia possible kinda bears a passing resemblance to exaltation lore. Of course, the simpler explanation is that he studied a Neverborn, perhaps found a tomb of one.
- Location
- Terror Australis
The Laws of magic don't physically confine anyone so no. It only applies to building spacecraft if the Infernal genuinely views themselves as physically trapped on the planet.
CCC applies when doing things to escape/oppose physical confinement, social fallout and other consequences after an escape are inapplicable.
I really think you should reign in your continous attempts to make the very situational booster apply to everything.
He had degeneration themes, that isn't really the same as what the Kemmlerites get up to.
It seems more likely to me that not everything has some secret tie back to exalted things, and that he simply found power in the rules of this age.
- Location
- Germany
I'm not actually arguing that Autobot is involved here, but just about his themes:
He definitly has a death theme.
He alone of his kind can know death, he alone can fear death (before the Exalted gave the rest of the Primordials an example).
This fear of death is definitly a factor in why and how mortals use necromancy.
A mortal necromancer understanding how and why a Titan related to death would propably on some philosophical or magical level change and improve his understanding of death and consequently his necromancy.
I'm not sure his conception of death really fits the mold here.
Autochthon was rotting alive because his ability to change and create didn't allow him the same sort of imperishable self contained protection of the others.
For mortals death is a transition from one state to another, something planned from the beginning that is in many ways a continuation in a different form rather than a simple ending.
Autochthon seemed to decay forever without actually changing into something else. His end state would be something broken and polluted, but not one that changes into something else or renews within his own context.
A mortal necromancer might learn something from that, but I think it'd be alien in a lot of ways.
If anything such a study seems like it would lead to some sort of necro-technomancy. Filling in broken machines with dead mortals via some decay related sympathy rather than making a mortal necromancer even better at normal necromancy stuff.
- Location
- Germany
Good points.
Still, I can't help but think that seeing how something fundamentally immortal is experiencing something like slowly dying might be useful in other ways.
Possibly even in the art of not dying, that Kemmler had certainly mastered to a great degree.
After all other Primordials are relativly more alien to men than he is, in the matter of death, so maybe that's one of the clues to how studying death made Kemmler so hard to kill.
Autochthon flaw of invulnerability, explains it all, "That which does not kill/destroy me makes me stronger." IE if Autochthon makes a trap it will be perfect with only one escape like answering a riddle. After someone answers the riddle they can attempt to destroy the trap, but if the do not destroy it fully, it will automatically rebuild itself stronger. Eventuality if enough people try and fail to destroy the trap with will be impossible for anyone to, as it gets harder with each failed attempt.
Winning Vote
I'd agree that a good necromancer would get something out of it, but I doubt it would be so vanilla as better regular necromancy skills.
Autobot has a better connection with mortals than his peers did, but he's still fundamentally alien and works in his own context.
Not everything is secretly exalted 2E in a mask.
Arc 6 Post 59: Queen's Tale
Queen's Tale
27th of October 2006 A.D.
As logically as Bob has laid out all the pieces, how could he not given what he is, your mind is full of questions, so is your heart. Why this way, why are the child snatching monsters the good guys, why is the world guarded by cruelty? A thousand times why for a thousand different injustices. But as you take a deep breath and collect yourself it comes to you that having so many questions means you cannot judge properly, not the fey and not... the other doubt that you do not want to think about too deeply. It's not even that you have half the puzzle, what Bob has given you with all the goodwill in the world is a single piece, a single snapshot. I will find the others, you resolve.
"Are you alright there Molly?" Harry startles you from your thoughts.
"Why wouldn't I be?" you ask confused.
"Your central glabella is currently shinning like a baleful sun," Bob snickers. "When someone does something like that with Harry around he usually sets the room on fire or brings the roof down."
In spite of yourself you smile. Bob is really quite charming, not that you're going to tell him anytime soon. He already has a catwalk's fill of confidence. "It's nothing, Just thinking about unknown unknowns."
"Nasty." You have the feeling that the spirit of intellect would be making a face if he er... had a face.
"Sorry." After a moment's pause you add: "What do you know about Mab herself, as a person I mean."
Thus you discover that someone without any spit, or the need for breath can spill sputter. "Not asking the easy questions are you Your Majesty..."
The title catches you off guard, he does not say it like Usum, obsequiously and with fervor, but he does not say it entirely in jest either, more like how you would imagine an American would greet Elizabeth the Second, not their queen and the whole concept is also not their cup of tea, but it's still a thing to other people.
"Mab is... strong willed," Bob continues. "I know it sounds obvious, the powers of the world are not easily bent by any passing breeze, but I mean she is strong willed as herself not just as the Queen of Winter. She took on her mantle when Merlin yet walked the world, the Queen and Lady had both been slain by... something from the Outside. I have to take this from the beginning."
Harry's dramatic sigh says everything you need to know about why he did not know about the Gates and the duties of Winter, but Bob sees fit to ignore him, glad for a more receptive audience.
"When the Roman Empire collapsed it was not in one clean strike but a slow torturous slide, generations of internecine wars, famine plague and barbarian invasion, each sunrise more bloody than the last, each night darker, the promises of imperial stability and prosperity a distant dream, a lie unveiled, lands were lost, won then lost again upon the edge of the sword. The Empire was their world and while in the East it endured in the West it fell to ruin and the squabbling of barbarian chiefs. Little wonder than that so many people thought the End of Days had come, and when many believe that things that would bend an ear take heed. Cults and warlock circles sprang up like wildfire. The Hermetic Circle, that's the predecessor of the White Council had long lingered in Rome and made use of the power and reach of the Empire for its own communication and enforcement of its will was ill prepared for it. That is the reason by the by why wizards do not meddle in wars anymore, Roman civil wars..."
"Wasn't it the... Wars of Religion?" Harry cuts in. "That killed ten million people over who was top dog in Europe and they all ended up worse for it. Wizardry and national loyalty don't mix."
Bob is in full swing now, he cackles. "Is that what they are teaching wizards these days, that the problem was a bunch of well intended patriots? Connerie!" He catches his French. "Everyone wanted to be Emperor so everyone wanted to be the Emperor's court wizard, they wanted the power to set things right from the top. Wizards don't try to swim against the passage of ages as often as mortals do because an old wizard has seem a lot more change in the world than the average mortal, but the Empire was older than all of them by then. If only they could fix it, bring order back into the countryside, they thought, then it would be well. That's why it was a wizard in Podunk Britannica who finally managed to pull things together, his enemies weren't primarily other wizards who saw things differently it was the Fomori, the Brothers of Bánánach, the Cult of the Black Goat. That last one is why the Merlin chose to call it the White Council by the way. He made a big stirring speech that ended: 'I see here men and women in robes of red and of green, of gold an ye even one of the purple, but surely we must agree that we are against the black, for the sake of our neighbors, our children and the wold they must inherit.'
As he speaks you and Harry both lean close, as though you had both grown afraid that the words, old and little spoken, would escape back into the mists of ages if you gave them too much space.
"Anyway," Bob continues. "That's not the bunch that is most important to understand how Mab came to power, it wasn't even the Fomori, it was a petty lord, master of a stony hill. Druas the Cruel they called him, though better that they had named him Duras the Fool how he came to poison the rites of the solstice I don't know and to be honest I don't want to. But he did it most thoroughly, at the crossing of the lines, at the passing of the age, the Queen of Summer went mad and slew the Queen of Winter then herself. The living earth heaved in torrent and the skies bled, though few that I have known would speak of those days no matter the price paid. So it was that she who was Lady of Winter, Morgana, lover of Merlin and deep in his councils rallied her loyalists and called forth her her allies, be they Merlin's wizards, knights of mortal blood and other stranger things that still lingered in the hills and fens in those days. Together they fought their way to the foot of the Stone Table before the Body of the Queen-Who-Was could be defiled and there Morgana became the queen... she became Mab."
He goes quiet for a long while then as you boggle at the thought of the perfect frozen queen whose gaze you had barely held as the desperate underdog. What Harry might be thinking you do not know and can't bring yourself to ask, not yet.
"And now we come to the reason I really don't want Mab to know about me," Bob finally breaks the silence. "Once upon a time I was... reckless in playing the games of court. I wanted to know the mind of the Queen and to know the future of a thing is to know its past. so I tricked certain nobles of the Sidhe who really should have held their wine better and spoken their riddles fairer...."
Harry suddenly looks alarmed. "Maybe you shouldn't know things that piss off Mab that badly Molly, ignorance might not be bliss, but knowledge can be dangerous if others know you know it and Mab... Mab can ferret a secret out of stone. You already know a lot more about her than I did at first meeting."
What do you do?
[] Insist, the fact that she wants it held secret makes it all the more valuable
-[] Write in stunt
[] Leave it be (Willpower Roll Required; if failed Insist will be chosen)
OOC: I know I said we would end the arc on this update, but as I got here i realized it would be out of character for Harry to just let Molly learn such a dangerous secret. Yes he is a lot better about this then he used to be, hence agreeing to this conversation without a roll, but this is major league dangerous secrets. No rolls in this one.
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- Location
- Germany
So, Mab was a close ally of the White Council before becoming Mab?
I wonder if any oath Morgana once swore could still be used against Mab.
That would certainly be a secret worth killing for.
I wonder if any oath Morgana once swore could still be used against Mab.
That would certainly be a secret worth killing for.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[x] Leave it be (Willpower Roll Required; if failed Insist will be chosen)
I'm confused; isn't it WoJ that the last Winter Queen retired of her own will rather than being murdered, and that she was the only other one to bear the title besides the Mab we know?
[X] Insist, the fact that she wants it held secret makes it all the more valuable
-[X] [Stunt] Reflexively Molly recoils from the thought of deliberate ignorance like she'd touched a hot stove. On her forehead a brazen sun gleams, and for a moment her shadow seems crowned by slitted eyes; a trick of the light as it shines through her hair.
—[X] Taking a breath, the light disappears as Molly pauses to think.
—[X] "You're not wrong to say that knowledge can be dangerous, but I think I'm well past the point where ignorance will help me much." She says with a serious expression. "What I need is to know, so that I can judge with certainty and act with understanding."
Since we just had Molly's caste mark show up without a flare it seems like fair game to abuse it for special effects.
On a character level this seems like the right choice. Molly's response to her defining trauma was that she needed to know more so that she could choose better. We came to talk to Bob specifically because he had secret knowledge of Mab, which was obviously dangerous to know from the start.
Not everything we learn here is going to be relevant, but we don't know what might be useful until we know it.
We just need to make sure we have the social defenses to stop her from reading it out of our body language or something.
[X] Insist, the fact that she wants it held secret makes it all the more valuable
-[X] [Stunt] Reflexively Molly recoils from the thought of deliberate ignorance like she'd touched a hot stove. On her forehead a brazen sun gleams, and for a moment her shadow seems crowned by slitted eyes; a trick of the light as it shines through her hair.
—[X] Taking a breath, the light disappears as Molly pauses to think.
—[X] "You're not wrong to say that knowledge can be dangerous, but I think I'm well past the point where ignorance will help me much." She says with a serious expression. "What I need is to know, so that I can judge with certainty and act with understanding."
Since we just had Molly's caste mark show up without a flare it seems like fair game to abuse it for special effects.
On a character level this seems like the right choice. Molly's response to her defining trauma was that she needed to know more so that she could choose better. We came to talk to Bob specifically because he had secret knowledge of Mab, which was obviously dangerous to know from the start.
Not everything we learn here is going to be relevant, but we don't know what might be useful until we know it.
We just need to make sure we have the social defenses to stop her from reading it out of our body language or something.
[X] Insist, the fact that she wants it held secret makes it all the more valuable
-[X] [Stunt] Reflexively Molly recoils from the thought of deliberate ignorance like she'd touched a hot stove. On her forehead a brazen sun gleams, and for a moment her shadow seems crowned by slitted eyes; a trick of the light as it shines through her hair.
—[X] Taking a breath, the light disappears as Molly pauses to think.
—[X] "You're not wrong to say that knowledge can be dangerous, but I think I'm well past the point where ignorance will help me much." She says with a serious expression. "What I need is to know, so that I can judge with certainty and act with understanding."
-[X] [Stunt] Reflexively Molly recoils from the thought of deliberate ignorance like she'd touched a hot stove. On her forehead a brazen sun gleams, and for a moment her shadow seems crowned by slitted eyes; a trick of the light as it shines through her hair.
—[X] Taking a breath, the light disappears as Molly pauses to think.
—[X] "You're not wrong to say that knowledge can be dangerous, but I think I'm well past the point where ignorance will help me much." She says with a serious expression. "What I need is to know, so that I can judge with certainty and act with understanding."
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Gonna try for a stunt, in cast that gives us a benefit, I'm leaning no here myself but hopefully the write in will be a moment of Molly trusting Bob's (i.e. someone else's judgement) about the risks of knowing this piece of information, with similar enough reasoning behind it as when Molly was talking with Detective Murphy.
(The language is horribly clunky, so I I'd be grateful for suggestions.)
[x] Plan:Leave it be Leave it up to Bob. (Willpower Roll Required; if failed Insist will be chosen)
-[X] Stunt: You want to know. Awareness of that want flashes through your mind even as you start to think of an argument to why you should be told, how this information might be useful but then you realise what's behind this desire: Worr- fear. Fear that you might misstep with Mab and those you care for suffer as a result. And simple curiosity too. Looking at Bob you nod.
-[X] "Ok. I can lie well - at need - but something like this feels like it could change how I talk to her. And it's far from impossible that she might notice that. And in that case; Bob, do you think this is something that could meaningfully help me avoid more traps or pitfalls that might arise in my conversation with her?"
(The language is horribly clunky, so I I'd be grateful for suggestions.)
[x] Plan:
-[X] Stunt: You want to know. Awareness of that want flashes through your mind even as you start to think of an argument to why you should be told, how this information might be useful but then you realise what's behind this desire: Worr- fear. Fear that you might misstep with Mab and those you care for suffer as a result. And simple curiosity too. Looking at Bob you nod.
-[X] "Ok. I can lie well - at need - but something like this feels like it could change how I talk to her. And it's far from impossible that she might notice that. And in that case; Bob, do you think this is something that could meaningfully help me avoid more traps or pitfalls that might arise in my conversation with her?"
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I took this from a Q&A:
How often do the Ladies', Queens' and Mothers' mantles change?
Uh, the Ladies, Queens and Mothers, their mantles change very, very, very rarely in general. I mean, Mab's been there for better than 1,000 years. And Maeve's been there….there was a Winter Lady before Maeve, uh, in Mab's time. And she didn't fare so well the last time a Starborn was running around.
And added the fact that Mab and Titania are sisters and took that to mean both of them ascended suddenly and once I got there full ascension from Fey to Lady to Queen in quick succession fit more with the story I wanted to tell. Part of that story Bob is offering now.
@DragonParadox wouldn't both Bob and Molly know better than to actually call Mab Mab when talking about her and her secrets? It attracts attention. Previously we always used epithets. Was this an in-story infosec flub from Bob (and Molly for not stopping him immediately) or should I not worry?
Also... If Mab was Morgana, would Arthurian tales be a valid focus for her, or at least her past?
Also... If Mab was Morgana, would Arthurian tales be a valid focus for her, or at least her past?