Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Emma-O, who is ultimately responsible for the events here, is nowhere in the vicinity. Killing lesser akuma is not goimg to bother him much, especially since these appear to be the cheap ones duped as babies. More where that came from.
Destroying the Akuma isn't to hurt Emma-O. It's nice to deny him even those relatively inconsequential assets, of course, but that's not the point. The point is to destroy them so as to not send a message of weakness. We can't let it be known throughout the supernatural community that you can pull this kind of shit, act against us and our people in such a blatant manner, and expect to come out of the exchange not only alive, but having received medical care for your trouble.

Michael and his fellow Knights only have the ability to be insanely merciful and holier than thou because their backers have the biggest metaphorical and metaphysical swinging dick in existence.

The Knights leave you alive? Great, you can go on to keep doing petty, evil shit for the lulz, but you better not fuck with their families, because there's always an Archangel waiting to take you to smite town. We don't get the same backup, not for the people who we've already taken under our wing, or our friends and loved ones who aren't out parents and siblings.

These creatures targeted our people, so examples must be made. Not just for Emma-O, but for everyone who will eventually learn of this encounter.
 
We are not a random warlord Infernal, we are Molly Carpenter. First daughter of Charity and Michael.
That comes with prior characterizations and social links and investments.
If you choose to blow it up for satisfaction on a couple mooks, it comes with costs and consequences.

Emma-O, who is ultimately responsible for the events here, is nowhere in the vicinity. Killing lesser akuma is not goimg to bother him much, especially since these appear to be the cheap ones duped as babies. More where that came from.

We already killed the boss akuma permadead; gg no rez. He isnt coming back, and Emma will have issues replacing him.
5 of 8 lesser akuma here are also confirmed dead. We looted his fancy sword.
Let it go. Thats my opinion.

While this is true Molly also has a demon grafted to her soul and she just ate a soul. Choosing to just kill them (or rather suggest that) is within the range of acceptable write ins. If you take it like all other decisions it will come with its own consequences for future characterization.
 
Fuck them.

We're not Michael and we're not a Knight of the Cross.

We may not be him, but he is right there, so... you know... the way he works is important.

Also, playing Molly, daughter of Michael Carpenter, not a random Murder Hobo, you can bet her morality was influenced by the knight of the cross that, once again, is right there next to us.
 
And the consequences of letting them go, not with a slap on the wrist but actually healing them?

It tells others that you can freely attack Molly's people and she will let them go, no questions asked, worse, she will heal them and let them go.

I reiterate, we do not have the capacity to stop them from harming others, harming themselves, or stop Emma-O from pimp slapping them.

This is not just about sending a message but also actually helping them and others. Because killing them WILL bring them peace. We literally do not have any other way to end their suffering and preventing others from suffering.
 
And the consequences of letting them go, not with a slap on the wrist but actually healing them?

It tells others that you can freely attack Molly's people and she will let them go, no questions asked, worse, she will heal them and let them go.

The Great Akuma who's soul we ate right there would like to object, but he's a little too occupied being dead for that for that....
 
Destroying the Akuma isn't to hurt Emma-O. It's nice to deny him even those relatively inconsequential assets, of course, but that's not the point. The point is to destroy them so as to not send a message of weakness. We can't let it be known throughout the supernatural community that you can pull this kind of shit, act against us and our people in such a blatant manner, and expect to come out of the exchange not only alive, but having received medical care for your trouble.

Michael and his fellow Knights only have the ability to be insanely merciful and holier than thou because their backers have the biggest metaphorical and metaphysical swinging dick in existence.

The Knights leave you alive? Great, you can go on to keep doing petty, evil shit for the lulz, but you better not fuck with their families, because there's always an Archangel waiting to take you to smite town. We don't get the same backup, not for the people who we've already taken under our wing, or our friends and loved ones who aren't out parents and siblings.

These creatures targeted our people, so examples must be made. Not just for Emma-O, but for everyone who will eventually learn of this encounter.
Message of weakness? WE just permakilled a Minister of Hell in 1v1 combat.
The problem is not about strenght, its about judgement and trustworthiness.
Strength is not enough on its own. Neither is restraint. We need to exhibit both.

Its not just mercy. Its also pragmatism.
People are that much more likely to surrender to you when they can if they dont think you will stab them when they are helpless and in your power. Otherwise they will fight to the death and to spite.

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Lesser akuma are slaves.
Their opinions dont matter to the Yama Kings who send them, and they are relatively easy to replace.
Killing them isnt going to affect a Yama King's willingness to toss more into the fray.

The real damage we did here was killing the greater akuma, because THOSE are hard to replace.

Letting it be clear that surrender allows the mooks to live means that next time, the next set might break an ankle, or intentionally take injury so as to be taken prisoner and save us the trouble of having to run them all down before they can do damage.
As opposed to working in spite.

===
Dude, Shiro was tortured to death three or four years ago. In this city.
The White God and his agents have limits as to what they are willing to do, even for their Knights. The Knights are not merciful because of their backing, they are merciful because its their calling, the right thing to do, and its brought them success.

And the consequences of letting them go, not with a slap on the wrist but actually healing them?
It tells others that you can freely attack Molly's people and she will let them go, no questions asked, worse, she will heal them and let them go.

I reiterate, we do not have the capacity to stop them from harming others, harming themselves, or stop Emma-O from pimp slapping them.

This is not just about sending a message but also actually helping them and others. Because killing them WILL bring them peace. We literally do not have any other way to end their suffering and preventing others from suffering.
See above.
The consequences mean that a non-zero fraction will consider sandbagging if they are sent to Chicago again, or have to face Molly again, as word gets round. That they will exploit any room in their oaths and instructions, like Eiko did.

There's a reason why kindness and ethics are deadly weapons against those who consider it a weakness.
 
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The Great Akuma who's soul we ate right there would like to object, but he's a little too occupied being dead for that for that....
Again, the message isn't just for Emma-O, but for everyone. The story about perma-killing the boss monster won't get around because the people who actually know what truly happened there aren't going to talk about it, it'll just look we offed the leader in combat while letting all of the survivors go with a pat on the back and a band-aid for their ouchies.
Letting it be clear that surrender allows the mooks to live means that next time, the next set might break an ankle, or intentionally take injury so as to be taken prisoner and save us the trouble of having to run them all down.
As opposed to working in spite.
What does surrender have to do with this entire encounter? The Akuma got their asses kicked and lost some limbs while in the middle of doing bad shit. They didn't lay down their arms and plead for mercy.
 
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The Great Akuma who's soul we ate right there would like to object, but he's a little too occupied being dead for that for that....
Apples and oranges comparison. It was not just the Greater Akuma that kidnapped, tortured and killed Molly's people.
Message of weakness? WE just permakilled a Minister of Hell in 1v1 combat.
The problem is, as I stated above, people, willingly or not attacked our people. Letting them go without so much as a slap on the wrist sends the wrong kind of message.

Having a silk glove is all well and good but there must be a gauntlet underneath.

So answer this, what is Molly going to say to the Jade Dogs on letting the people who tortured and killed them go AFTER healing them? What is Molly going to say to those humans who were hunted like animals by those Akuma? What about the mother of that Kid who got lifelinked? What will she say to the Vampire minions, whom she promised protection and failed.

Molly: Don't worry, we will take the moral high ground and let them go after healing them. Please go up to them and tell them that there are no hard feelings. Sure I promised to protect you and failed but hey, Moral high ground.
 
Also, what message does it send to our dependents that these fuckwads who not only killed their friends but also tortured them to the point of massive trauma are healed up and told to walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist? Do you think our people are going to be singing praises about how cool and merciful Molly is for letting these torturous fuckwads walk away and get healing as a bonus?
 
Again, the message isn't just for Emma-O, but for everyone. The story about perma-killing the boss monster won't get around because the people who actually know what truly happened there aren't going to talk about it, it'll just look we offed the leader in combat while letting all of the survivors go with a pat on the back and a band-aid for their ouchies.
Okay, thats not true.
Five out of eight akuma here are already dead.
Thats 65% of the akuma that attacked Last Station.

Permakilling the boss monster will most definitely get around.
He's a Minister of Hell. A very big deal in Kakuri, and a significant investment for Emma-O.
People will NOTICE when he doesnt come home to Kakuri, or show up again after this mission.
 
The story about perma-killing the boss monster won't get around because the people who actually know what truly happened there aren't going to talk about it

Gard and her friends will 100% talk about how we just killed a Great Akuma in a one on one where he tried to cheat without taking a scratch, there were witnesses, and not all of them wants Emma-O not to take en egg to the face, the story will be told and our accomplishments will be known by those who matters.

Apples and oranges comparison. It was not just the Greater Akuma that kidnapped, tortured and killed Molly's people.

Actually, as far as their ability to be in charge of the operation's go, yes, yes he did everything alone, the rest are set dressing and not responsible for their acts.

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Also, what Uju said about most of them being dead already.
 
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Also, what message does it send to our dependents that these fuckwads who not only killed their friends but also tortured them to the point of massive trauma are healed up and told to walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist? Do you think our people are going to be singing praises about how cool and merciful Molly is for letting these torturous fuckwads walk away and get healing as a bonus?
Again. Molly and her allies have killed the boss in charge and 60% of his troops.
Additionally, do remember that they will have concerns that 100% scorched earth will be replicated against them.

If the standards you are currently advocating were applied by the other side, they wouldnt have been under torture, they'd mostly be dead.
 
Most of that stuff already exists here.
Murphy cordoned off this area, so she already has to have provided justification for that.
Cordoning off the area has known names and faces involved, the context is sketchy but it doesn't throw immediate red flags.
Yes?
The mercs work for Odin. They were in the area and ran to the sound of the guns. They'll be out of the country before anyone gets around to asking them questions, especially if people drag their feet.
This is barely relevant because the problem is that Murphy would be claiming they worked for the police department and employed lethal force on its behalf but refusing to name or produce them. Supernatural details can get ignored, but that's something that can't be ignored on a basic administrative level.

J went out of town for how long? To where? He didnt hear of his own death on the news? None of his coworkers called his cellphone? Why was his car still at his apartment? He took a flight with what ticket?

You are explicitly going with a much weaker alibi, and relying on J being able to sell a story instead of crumbling when pushed, whether by cops or journalists.
His death wasn't big news, we didn't even know about it until we were wandering in the local area ourselves.

He went camping off the grid and didn't really see anything, or maybe fishing on the lake. It's weird but not out of bounds for things that get ignored for the supernatural.

Your alibi sticks him at the center of a serious investigation and hopes he won't crack.
It's important to remember that the lesser akuma are likely slaves dug up from their graves and fed BS.
This is true, but not necessarily a defense.

The important measure here is recidivism. The human half of a Denarian can quit, an Akuma largely can't.

It's tragic, but not having a choice doesn't stop them from being monsters supporting monstrous stuff.

Who matters more, the (hypothetically) innocent person coerced into holding a gun or the people looking down its barrel?

The way I see it we either need to sit on them and try to break Emma-O's hold or kill them here and now.

Letting them run off simply because we don't feel like being responsible for them while they're in our power isn't a some sort of great moral achievement.
 
Actually, as far as their ability to be in charge of the operation's go, yes, yes he did everything alone, the rest are set dressing and not responsible for their acts.

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Also, what Uju said about most of them being dead already.
Responsibility isn't the issue here. I'm not voting to destroy the surviving Akuma because they're responsible, or because they need to be punished. Arguably, leaving them alive at this point would be the greatest cruelty we can inflict upon them. I don't want them to suffer. I want their death to have a purpose, namely further establishing the consequences of fucking with Molly.

And so what if they're already mostly dead? Even if there was just one of them left, healing them up and sending them on their merry way would be just as detrimental as three, five, or all of them getting to live to murder and victimize another day.
 
Again. Molly and her allies have killed the boss in charge and 60% of his troops.
Additionally, do remember that they will have concerns that 100% scorched earth will be replicated against them.

If the standards you are currently advocating were applied by the other side, they wouldnt have been under torture, they'd mostly be dead.

100% scorched earth would be Burning down the entirety of Kakuri with radioactive hate fire then salting the ashes and burning those too. We're not doing that.
 
Apples and oranges comparison. It was not just the Greater Akuma that kidnapped, tortured and killed Molly's people.

The problem is, as I stated above, people, willingly or not attacked our people. Letting them go without so much as a slap on the wrist sends the wrong kind of message.
Having a silk glove is all well and good but there must be a gauntlet underneath.

So answer this, what is Molly going to say to the Jade Dogs on letting the people who tortured and killed them go AFTER healing them? What is Molly going to say to those humans who were hunted like animals by those Akuma? What about the mother of that Kid who got lifelinked? What will she say to the Vampire minions, whom she promised protection and failed.

Molly: Don't worry, we will take the moral high ground and let them go after healing them. Please go up to them and tell them that there are no hard feelings. Sure I promised to protect you and failed but hey, Moral high ground.

None of the proposed actions does fuckall
In fact, it just mean that next time(and there WILL be a next time) the opposition will be incentivized to get their murder on first.
I mean, you're describing a situation where we delimbed three people, and killed seven as a slap on the wrist.

Exactly what her father does: I wont kill people in cold blood.
I dont know why its supposed to be controversial; Dresden doesnt kill people in cold blood, let alone Michael.

Promised protection and failed?
She literally came through fire and shadow for them.
I think you vastly understimate what that means to people who were abandoned to penury by their families.
 
100% scorched earth would be Burning down the entirety of Kakuri with radioactive hate fire then salting the ashes and burning those too. We're not doing that.
......
Dude.
We have, as of this point in time, caused the death of 1x bakemono, 5x lesser akuma and 1x greater akuma.
The 3x surviving lesser akuma are missing their upper limbs. The girl bakemono is in custody.

And that does not count the people or demons Michael and Dresden killed.
If these were mortals, this place would be awash with blood.
 
Out of curiosity, are you voting for killing them or letting them go? You have yet to vote for any of the two options.

Definitely not to release them, for the reasons I outlined. I will approval vote saving them via recruitment though. They aren't safe minions right now, but we can put them on house arrest until we've worked something out if we go that route.

[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
-[X] Offer, but do not suggest, to make the body disappear without trace, if it existing is an issue for Murphy or Butters.

[X] [AKUMA] Destroy them

[X] [AKUMA] Try to recruit them, it's clear they have been tricked into this
 
hey aren't safe minions right now, but we can put them on house arrest until we've worked something out if we go that route.
Yeah, I would vote this too but we do not have the ability to do so unfortunately. It would also open the can of worms but if we take them as minions but that would have been workable if we had the capacity.

As it is, they are very unhealthy to be around for our vampire minions.
 
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