- Location
- Germany
Interesting, I missread that one.
Then yes, Vamps will burn through their blood pretty quickly to use Celerity to its full potential.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Then yes, Vamps will burn through their blood pretty quickly to use Celerity to its full potential.
When I wrote *Too Long, Didn't Read* as the way to reduce the quote, I was being literal, your vote is too long, it is not going to even be read, something the size of Arlatan's proposition is more likely if you don't want to get this effect. Even in universe, this message is so long it's never going to work.
And the problem is that the main vote crafters are still discussing mechanics and forgot about this part of the vote at this point it would seems.
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Half a mind to find a way to write to remember to discuss what message we want to send in bright neon colors that flash as much as possible just to make sure its's seen, yes it would be petty, yes I would not be liked for it, but at this point I would be willing to take the hit to my reputation if the vote ended up discussed.
Main thing stopping me is that I'm pretty sure it would end up a discussion about what I did instead of a discussion about what I said. If you see what I mean.
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For my part it's that I think victory and destroying the soul of a greater akuma he sees fit to allow the title Kakuri's Will on Earth is message enough.
There's something to be said for sending a literal message, but generally I'd tend towards something with a more elaborate scene and laconic explicit response if doing anything at all.
Something like:
[X] Plan Sending a Scam E(iko)mail
-[X] No, you are not going to take something like this from one who is not your enemy
-[X] [Message Stunt] In the ruins of the lobby Molly moved towards Eiko with a feline grace, walking on the surface of the ankle deep water like solid ground.
—[X] Around her the light of her anima seemed to grow deeper somehow as it flashed among the falling water, like the embers of a cigarette pressed into the flesh of the mundane world.
—[X] As the green hues water dripped from the broken idols of her armor like tears, she looked down and then up as if search for silent watchers.
—[X] Finally, she spoke two words: "Do Not". Her voice didn't drip with venom, nor burn with power. There wasn't a shadow of malice or the creeping chill of cruelty.
—[X] It did however, have an unsettling weight to it. A certainty as inexorable as the sunrise and as alien as the light of distant stars. A touch of something that could not break brushing against a world that would
Which is pretty flowery as a stunt, but the actual words aren't edging into territory where we might accidentally give ourselves enough rope to hang ourselves with by trying to get too clever about things.
It's also fun because it can equally be taken as a message to Eiko about how unwise betrayal would be while the object lesson is fresh.
Plan name because bad wordplay is the best kind of wordplay, and this is technically part of the con we're trying on him.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Plan Sending a Scam E(iko)mail
I think this makes sense for chaff, but not meaningful NPC enemies.
It's worth considering that one of the roles Holden mentions that a Celestial Exalt could play is as the main antagonist for a player rin group of WoD supernaturals. That means that they're intended to be defeatable by four or five experienced vampires or mages or werewolves
[X] BronzeTongue
- Location
- Germany
There is no real message to send here.
We have to sell the fight and its aftermath for Emma-O and that's all there is.
We can't send any message here that will have an impact.
The message that might get through is soul-killing the greater Akuma after we are done with this theatre.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I mean Molly also has super speed. If anything she is faster. Which is supposed to be represented by initiative, but with the rules we are working with initiative doesn't seem to be the god stat it normally is in WoD.
The message we could send here is to other supernatural powers that we are a party they can negotiate with.
That's why I propose that Emma-O can returns the hostages and pay reparations, as that.
We do not want to get into a war to the knife with a Yama King. A single combat focused greater akuma could go through Molly and her current allies like a hot knife through butter.
And this is particularly true for a Yama King we may well want to help redeem.
Not exactly? Molly does have some super-speed, but not the same kind and Eiko had a superior one: Moly sprint fast and react fast, the first is irrelevant, the second is what saves her, Eiko reacts fast and attack fast, not the same thing, and why her attacks are dangerous.
Molly have super senses and some ability to follow on it, Eiko has actual super-speed with the action economy and the senses that go with it for a limited time. Molly can win here because she is a tank and the difference in speed isn't the worse, but a fight against any opponents that can literally run circles around you before you punch is decided before it even begins, so representing celerity with a system that will absolutely murder anyone who doesn't have their own form of super-speed is correct.
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Greater Akuma can get ten dot disciplines (the, 'Oops, was that Bangladesh?' scale), throw around stupidly large dice pools, and the like. Even if you cut that and restrict them to having nine dot disciplines, they're still going to be able to throw down things like nine dot Black Wind, Iron Mountain, Kai and the like. Elder level Kai includes such effects as 'You take seventy unsoakable unparryable levels of damage' aka, you just die without a perfect defence.
They're basically walking apocalypses by the rules we have for them.
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- Location
- Germany
What?
This is the only straight-damage power I can find under Kiai:
Sure, dealing your Dharma-level in Agg damage is heavy stuff, but that's not seventy and not unsoakable either.
Dharma-level per success so 5 dharma and 4 success = 20 agg, perfect or die.
- Location
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Right, you can certainly read it like that, but I think that's a bit far out there.
In the same book the higher-leveled Yin and Yang Prana offence-powers deal much less damage.
And it's levels of damage, not dice, which means that in the WoD combat resolution it skips over parrying and soaking, as they're at the stage of dice to hit and dice of damage. Once you talk about levels you're after then.
And Greater Akuma have virtual dharma 7 and can get basic dice pools of twenty and burn chi or use Internalise for more dice or successes.
It's not ambiguous in a 'but you can read it like that' kind of way, it explicitly says dharma levels of damage per success.
And yes, the higher level Yin and Yang Prana powers are a bit shit. The Companion book isn't very good at that kind of thing, because they assumed they wouldn't be in player hands they didn't try to balance them at all.
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- Location
- Germany
Cry of Blood is not even an Elder Discipline/ not-for-players Power, it's just level 5.
The ability to instagib an Elder Vampire with 8 Fortitude or Iron Mountain in one not-even-very-lucky roll is just nuts, completly out of tune with all other Disciplines I've seen so far.
That's just shit balancing or careless writing.
- Location
- Georgia
Well, this was an interesting update and went about how I expected. Why are people so... upset? confused? yes, molly is an exalted, a very fresh one, but that doesn't mean others are helpless either you know.
WoD is not shonen to have some sort of power levels that make you immune to anything below your own level.
That's a case with canon WoD splats too. Like, a rank 1 werewolf could die to a gang with shotguns (not even silver) if delirium doesn't work. or he could cast magical darkness on them.
Or for another example, as a mokole (were-reptiles) you can start with something like 17 soak dice and ability to inflict delirium on even other supernaturals. at rank 1.
you can begin play with 2 extra hands in demon shintai (mitigates penalties for extra actions) and 2 levels in black wind, spend background for spirit-awakened swords. Now you are swinging around 4 aggro damage swords, 4 times each turn at least.
*Also, black wind has weird explanation in the book. do you even spend demon chi when using it in ways that please your demon?
PCs shouldn't be immune to things like that, takes the thrill out of it.
WoD is not shonen to have some sort of power levels that make you immune to anything below your own level.
That's a case with canon WoD splats too. Like, a rank 1 werewolf could die to a gang with shotguns (not even silver) if delirium doesn't work. or he could cast magical darkness on them.
Or for another example, as a mokole (were-reptiles) you can start with something like 17 soak dice and ability to inflict delirium on even other supernaturals. at rank 1.
yeap, kuei-jin disciplines are designed weird XD
you can begin play with 2 extra hands in demon shintai (mitigates penalties for extra actions) and 2 levels in black wind, spend background for spirit-awakened swords. Now you are swinging around 4 aggro damage swords, 4 times each turn at least.
*Also, black wind has weird explanation in the book. do you even spend demon chi when using it in ways that please your demon?
yeap, some things development team really messed up.
You're missing my point. Open Eye/Fivefold Bulwark give an automatic defense, saving your dice and keeping DCs down.
Without them, under the rules quoted upthread, you cant act without stacking dice penalties up for yourself.
Just attacking and defending raises the DC for the second action from 6 to 8, an increase of 33%.
Bloodless Murk doesnt work in direct sunlight, or against anti-Creatures of Darkness magic or anti-CoD magic-enhanced attacks.
Who Strikes The Wind doesnt work if you're still.
All the Infernal PDs are deliberately hobbled like that in ExWoD as a carryover from Ex2.
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WoD Vampires have their Fortitude-equivalent, and can have combat regen by spending blood points.
Kueijin would have to spend Yang chi, but can similarly heal.
Kuejin using Demon Arts literally have an overdrive charm equivalent regenerating Demon Chi/turn, so they arent running short of combat juice midfight like Exalts might. Risk of Fire Soul, but thats it.
In-setting?
Rampires in the Dresdenverse are supernaturally tough enough that if you dont hit their blood reservoir, they can walk off headshots; Murphy had to shoot one half a dozen times in the head before it stopped moving in Love Hurts. And Dresden has cut them in half with fire and had them still alive and screaming in Changes.
Whites have literal Wolverine regen as long as they are wellfed; we see Madrigal Raith regrow his ankles after they got shotgunned by Thomas Raith in Proven Guilty.
And Blampires are just fucking bullshit against anything not a bane like garlic or sunlight or holy water or fire.
You underestimate just how tough a lot of supernaturals are to mortal attack in our place.
Its just that in canon most of them are seen in fights with ppl who know their strengths and weaknesses.
And Fire always deals Agg, especially when wielded by wizards.
Probably an Investment.
She doesnt appear to be Elder-equivalent to my eyes, which implies at least the potential for broader based competency outside her primary focus. If she was Dharma 6-equivalent, for example, you'd have been looking at 6 dot trait maximums, and 12-ish dice pools prior to any buffs.
I would be much less cavalier about a shikome assassin that potentially had Dex 6, Brawl 6 as base stats before activating Demon Shintai or Black Wind.
Or Appearance 6/Charisma 6/Manipulation 6.
Remember:
A combat Attribute 6/Ability 6 shikome with Demon Shintai 5 and Black Wind 2 has effectively 18 dice by putting all their BW points into auto successes.
With shintai up and an Excellency, we're rolling 26 dice(28 with a stunt) on Dex + Melee and had a HP pool of 23 HLs.
Like I said, we'd have gotten mauled attempting to 1v1 the godmonster Iku Turso if we had to worry about getting hammered by multiple actions and had to suffer penalties for each parry.
Also its suggesting that we were at mortal risk with Don Juan's rampire covert action teams when we approached them alone.
And against the Fomor servitors accompanying Rhys the Ragged.
And against the malks in Undertown.
Essentially, a single Rampire hit team is now a mortal threat, which is not what I was led to believe by the ExWoD mission statement.
Do recall this was the vision of ExWoD:
A single Solar walking into a nightclub full of vampires, and killing everything that even looked at him funny.
The point I was making is that rules for Exalts =/= rules for mortals.
This holds true for soak, healing times, countermagic defenses et cetera. It isnt really fair to use mortals as a relevant comparison.
Someone wielding a Sword designed to level the battlefield of fights against everything from hobs to Blampires to Fallen Angels, Dragons and Titans doesnt really operate by mundane mortal rules in combat either.
At least as long as they wield the Sword.
And sometimes when they dont; we do see Micnael deal with multiple Red Court attackers in Grave Peril without Amoracchius, and he ignored multiple attacker and multiple attack prmalties
Exalted canonically had reflexive flurrybreakers for dealing with multiple attacks, to avoid the embarassment of getting killed by mortals with sledgehammers. Or in this case, handguns.
Their general absence here in the charmset implies they arent necessary,
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What Im trying to convey is that under these rules? Base InfernalMolly is already carrying penalties to her actions.
Just deciding to attack and defend represents a process of stacking a 33% difficulty increase on her chosen second action, as it goes from what would normally be DC6 to DC8.
Scenario 1: One Action In A Turn(Excellency, no buffs)
Full Attack/Full Defense: 20 dice at DC6
Scenario 2: Two Actions In A Turn(Excellency, no buffs)
Attack: -1 dice, +1 DC = 19 dice at DC7
Defend: -2 dice, +2 DC = 18 dice at DC8
Scenario 3: One Action In A Turn(No Excellency, no buffs)
Full Attack or Full Defense: 9 dice at DC6
Scenario 4: Two Actions In A Turn(No Excellency, no buffs)
Attack: -1 dice, +1DC = 8 dice at DC7
Defend: -2 dice, +2DC = 7 dice at DC8
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Forgive me if it seems a little pedantic.
But mechanically, this appears to be a rather significant nerf to Molly's capabilities and survivability.
In my opinion.
Three types of chi: Yin, Yang and Demon.
You spend Demon Chi on Demon Arts like Demon Shintai and Black Wind.
Thing is, kueijin have what Exalted would classify as overdrive: chi recovery, at least for Demon Chi.
So if they are using a Demon Art like Shintai or Black Wind, they are recovering Demon Chi almost as fast, or faster, than they are spending it.
So while an Exalt is managing Essence in combat, kueijin generally know they wont run out of combat juice.
They might frenzy, but not run dry of juice.