- Location
- Germany
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I think you're risking failure here if we mess up the Occult roll. We can't ask the same question twice even with different focuses, I believe.
? We get the information in any case, with no roll needed. The occult excellency roll is to check if the idea is even feasible on the spot.
We need to make Occult roles to comprehend what the Crown tells us when we ask questions with complex answers.
Understanding the details of the ritual may itself take an Occult roll.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Why are we going for this complicated plan instead of just attacking early during the day?
Yes. Which is why I am using Occult Excellency.
[x] So you speak up, you do not need that kind of risk taken, now that you know the Akuma are messing with the local dragon lines you can call your own expert in the matter in the from of Porter
The other side of the Wall here is Faerie. Deep Faerie, with paths to Chicago-on-Chicago and Arctis Tor.
Thats a great way to get Winter and Summer to get together and wipe out your Hell.
Not just depose the Yama King, but kill him, blow up his realm and have rival YKs claim the scraps.
Doesnt appear to work on spirits by the mechanics.
There is a difference between avoiding a prepared, planned hostile magic ritual whose parameters and backers are obfuscated.
And declining to engage an akuma with a wielder of Amoracchius backing you up.
Molly was not a wizard. She had the talent but no training.
Dresden didnt know she had magical talent until she was kidnapped, and the people who kidnapped her were Winter servitors, who are hostile to Yomi Wan. This is not public information.
Besides, wizards and how they work are no mystery to Yomi Wan. Good odds there's been several in Emma-O's Hell.
The Dresdenverse fudges this a lot, but wizards do not appear to run primarily on internal power.
See the Archive and Dresden both running out of mojo when caught in that circle at the Aquarium in Small Favor.
Soulfire is something usually seen in angels for a reason.
Running on the power of her soul?
Yama Kings know from experience how much power you can squeeze out of a mortal soul at a time.
Wan Kuei, and the Wan Xian before them, have always been made/chosen, not born.
However Molly isnt running game on the power of her lifeforce, she's running on the Exaltation Shard.
And its the Shard thats presumed to be drawing power from environmental chi, not the relatively meager lifespan of a mortal.
It doesnt have a soul to burn for power either.
I dont think thats plausible.
The events there arw just as, if not more consistent, with the idea that Shagnasty was aware of Demonreach and, more importantly, the fact that it didnt currently have a Warden at the time. Dresden only pacted with it like a day before.
Without a Warden, Shagnasty had nothing to fear. With a Warden who knew what he was doing, Demonreach imprisoned a Titan.
The human Warden is an important part of the setup.
Yomi Wan is in the NeverNever. If a YK can send an army to Winter, Mab can certainly retaliate.
Mab wouldnt have all that much cred if she couldnt threaten retaliation for infractions.
The Leanansidhe walked across the NeverNever into the heart of Red Court power in Changes .
Mab sent Winter Knight Harry into the heart of Hades' power without issue in Skin Games.
Both significant deployments of military force. We know its possible because we see it done.
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And both can fail.
Yama Kings are incredibly powerful in their hell because they control the environment to the degree of creating volcanoes. They can be defeated or slain outside it but if a Fae army marches into Kakuri they're not marching out again, and Emma-Oborbabkt says thanks for the power up from all the souls he gets to torment.
Which I'm not confident is enough. We may well want something like 15 successes on this roll to know the ritual well enough to subvert it quickly.
The disciple level explicitly says soul or spirit in one place. It's called Spirit Eating. It should be able to eat spirits.
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Kakuri is a fraction of the Thousand Hells.
In this setting, Winter is a third or half of Faerie, which is a much more powerful faction in the first place.
There's a reason its called the Unseelie Accords, and not the Kakuri Accords.
The Accords would not exist if Mab and her forces were not a credible deterrent against fuckery, regardless of where the opponent ran to.
Yes, Yama Kings are incredibly powerful inside their Hell and weaker outside it.
No, they are nowhere near invincible inside it.
Emma-O himself will tell you that, having participated in the invasion of the domain of the First of the Fallen, and the murder of that ruling Yama King and his second in command.
Not to mention all the wandering powers in Kakuri itself that he's been able to do fuckall about.
And you can always ask Ravana about his opinion of the invincibility and untouchability of YKs in their Hell.
Or alternatively, Yen-Lo.
If you can find his body.
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They're not omnipotent in their hell, but they're very powerful because of their control of the environment. What's a fae army with swords on horses going to do if Emma-O sets off a volcano beneath their feet, for example?
Yama Kings are killable in their hells, but they're very, very hard to kill with armies rather than super-combatants.
And yes, there's an arhat wandering around Kakuri that gives Emma-O the finger. That arhat may literally be Emma-O's better half, or a literal Bodhisattva. It's the exception that proves the rule.
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We don't need to know precisely how to subvert it right there - we need to understand enough to know in broad terms that it's subvertable in the time we have. We'll work out the details in the next several hours.
We get one chance to us the Crown to ask about the ritual, and one chance to understand what it's showing us. We don't get a second chance on this as I understand it.
Actually, our limitation is on what we use to ask the question, not on the question, we can reask it, just has to find another thing that allows us to ask, like the place the shaman lived, his body, another victim….
There is no suggestion that Emma-O, or any of the other YKs, has environmental shaping of that scale as a tactical option.
Can they do it? Yes. Undoubtedly yes. Can they do it fast enough or cheaply enough to be relevant in a war?
No evidence so far Im aware of.
And can they afford an invasion with an enslaved population who might take the opportunity of a diversion of forces to revolt?
A population that provides the power of the Yama King, and the loss of control of which weakens him/her?
Also no evidence Im aware of.
I mean, Winter's forces(and to a lesser extent, Summer's) are rated O for Outsider.
A significant chunk of their soldiers sally beyond the Gates most days to bleed the Outsiders before they can reach the walls.
The rest of their permanent army is presumably rated to the same standards.
I'd bet on them to comprehensively body whoever Emma-O puts in the field.
But thats my opinion.
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Why would it cost them anything or take effort or time? The Thousand Hells book simply says 'reality itself shifts to appease them' and describes it happening in response to their emotional fluctuations, such as their anger freezing an ocean. Lord of the Land, which is Molly's equivilent, doesn't have cost or time limitations, so why would they be different?
Emma-O fought Mikaboshi for centuries, pushing the borders of their Hells back and forth. Managing the souls in his Hell while at war is something he's more than capable of.
And fighting Outsiders clearly isn't that impressive, because the fae aren't that impressive. Put an armoured division against the forces of Winter and Summer that fought around the Stone Table and the fae would have been trivially annihilated.
When we asked DP about using the Crown on Wan Kuei he suggested the opposite, I think.
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Winter vs. Yami Wan is interesting, but not super relevant to this discussion. If Emma-O overstepped here then he'll have to deal with it, but it doesn't guarantee us anything over the next three days.
The salient point here is that Molly isn't a ritualist, for all she has a great occult score and makes a great consultant when crafting one. The Akuma presumably are and have a plan here.
Even on an OOC level we don't really know what to expect in terms of timing, requirements, resources, or development time. Even using the crown is just enough to point us in the right direction.
So we'd be taking a blind leap without knowing if wild success would actually translate to a useful result and with no backup plan if we don't get a supremely easy tool that we can just walk out of the lab and use.
To be clear about our requirements here, we need a ritual that will:
1) Counter entrenched opposition
2) Do so with the resources we have on hand, because a perfect ritual that requires us to have a bottle of the genuine remorse of a redcap on hand doesn't help us
3) Be possible to set up in a little more than three days
4) Act remotely and quickly so that the Akuma can't screw with us
5) Be safe enough to use that we don't risk doing something nasty to all the people living around the magical oil pipeline we're going to be arm wrestling over
I don't doubt that an exalt can be capable of those things but getting all of them at once with no training, experience, or dedicated build elements is a lot to ask for.
The salient point here is that Molly isn't a ritualist, for all she has a great occult score and makes a great consultant when crafting one. The Akuma presumably are and have a plan here.
Even on an OOC level we don't really know what to expect in terms of timing, requirements, resources, or development time. Even using the crown is just enough to point us in the right direction.
So we'd be taking a blind leap without knowing if wild success would actually translate to a useful result and with no backup plan if we don't get a supremely easy tool that we can just walk out of the lab and use.
To be clear about our requirements here, we need a ritual that will:
1) Counter entrenched opposition
2) Do so with the resources we have on hand, because a perfect ritual that requires us to have a bottle of the genuine remorse of a redcap on hand doesn't help us
3) Be possible to set up in a little more than three days
4) Act remotely and quickly so that the Akuma can't screw with us
5) Be safe enough to use that we don't risk doing something nasty to all the people living around the magical oil pipeline we're going to be arm wrestling over
I don't doubt that an exalt can be capable of those things but getting all of them at once with no training, experience, or dedicated build elements is a lot to ask for.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow as we look into the the dragonlines and how they might or might not be used.
[x] So you speak up, you do not need that kind of risk taken, now that you know the Akuma are messing with the local dragon lines you can call your own expert in the matter in the from of Porter
There was a discussion a couple months ago about helping Lydia keep up as things escalate.
Occurred to me that a simple way to give Lydia would be access to those Secret Arts that are thematically appropriate for a notExigent of Death.
As a Brawl primary, more Martial Arts would be appropriate, and as a death associated Exigent, learning long forgotten secrets from the dead is thematic. And there is some symmetry in Molly the Celestial stepping down to learn mortal martial arts while Lydia the Exigent steps up to learn notSidereal Martial Arts.
I'd specifically recommend taking a look at The Prismatic Arrangement and The Kaleidoscopic Border.
Thought I'd share.
Current Tally:
Occurred to me that a simple way to give Lydia would be access to those Secret Arts that are thematically appropriate for a notExigent of Death.
As a Brawl primary, more Martial Arts would be appropriate, and as a death associated Exigent, learning long forgotten secrets from the dead is thematic. And there is some symmetry in Molly the Celestial stepping down to learn mortal martial arts while Lydia the Exigent steps up to learn notSidereal Martial Arts.
I'd specifically recommend taking a look at The Prismatic Arrangement and The Kaleidoscopic Border.
Thought I'd share.
Current Tally:
- Location
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Obsidian Shards might be the more fitting for her Charms.
Control over the Shroud is essential to the work of a Deathgod.
Though I think she might want to start with Terrestrial Martial Arts before going for the Siddies tricks.