Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

The current plans are noon the same day, it doesn't exactly cost us much time.

I disagree about Mac too. It's the only Accorded neutral ground in the city and they are trying to play stupid games with us. It's one of the few places we can get a feel for each other in person where a backstab is unlikely.

If they start a fight there we get to kick back and watch Mab flay them alive for crossing Winter, so I don't see them pulling something as a negative if they try it there.
I guess. There is no guarantee that they accept the change though. We are only talking about a messenger after all.

I still don't want Mac's though. Even if it's their fault for starting things, it's still rude to bring them within swinging range of it.

We also haven't even visited the bar yet. Maybe if we were already familiar with the place then I could agree. But I don't want this to be our first introduction to the scene.
 
It adds more variety than a alll the brass all the time. Its not just our Exaltation its also mollys soul and thats certainly isn't all doom and gloom brass.
Sure, but those aren't our only two options. Both of the more complete hells our forward so far have plenty of stuff that isn't doom and gloom or random references to stuff for a laugh from behind the 4th wall.
I guess. There is no guarantee that they accept the change though. We are only talking about a messenger after all.

I still don't want Mac's though. Even if it's their fault for starting things, it's still rude to bring them within swinging range of it.

We also haven't even visited the bar yet. Maybe if we were already familiar with the place then I could agree. But I don't want this to be our first introduction to the scene.
That's what the email address is for. As I said in that same post, if they don't like it after they opened the way they did then they have to ask us for something. It just opens another round of negotiations in which we've made it clear we aren't an idiot to dictate to. If they're going to get into a snit about us not immediately coming when called like a good dog - and into an obvious trap at that - then this wasn't going to work out anyway.

I'm not that worried about Mac either; he's hosted hostile negotiations including the lesser queens of both fey courts before. This was the kind of stuff that he signed up for when he did whatever it was that got him the neutral designation.
Weren't the Jade Court (let alone Akuma) not actual signatories of the Accords?
Not totally sure about that, not being a signatory makes things hard for a major power trying to operate on earth because everyone else uses the system and may have rights under it that you don't which other parties will enforce.

Even if the Akuma aren't, starting a fight there is dangerously close to spitting at Winter without the rights granted to an Accorded nations.
 
Just for the record, this lurker is hoping that the 'Seeds of Night' are actually Emma'O's version of legally distinct cheap knock off Exalts, like cap off at essence 2-3 level cheap knock offs. This 'akuma' is going to find out its an actual Kamen Rider she is attempting to loan shark on nonexistent debt markers.

I have this idea that Emma'O is going to be compelled to cash in further on the knockoffs once it is realize the power of dishonorable copyright infringement compels to keep up the knock off's branding infringement activities. Once Molly pulls out the dragon reforged motorcycle all the knock offs are going to be forced to start hunting greater and greater mythical beings and turning them into reforged transports. This will involve lots of blatant kill stealing just to make them dishonorable enough for the brand.

Of course there will be that one idiot that is convinced he is a knock off power ranger.. who no one wants to complain to the boss about. That idiot is the once with half a dozen mythical motorcycles that turn into a giant robot combined form... poorly. Mostly because no one will help him with the project and the other Seeds of Night keep sabotaging him out of spite and jealousy.
 
COMMENTARY
Venom and rage.Usum really doesnt like Emma-O.

===
So we have an envoy of Emma-O and its entourage in Chicago.
I am interested in finding out if there's a correlation between how long between the White Council receiving the Book of Yomi Wan and the akuma showing up in the city. Or if it was just our use of shintai that drew their attention.

Note:
This Lady Eiko may not be an akuma. All we know is that it has akuma in its entourage.
For all we know, its a Shikome Assassin; originally an akuma, now something closer to a shapeshifting demon succubus, with effective invisibility. Emma-O has a lot of those in his entourage, and they are his trusted consorts, servitors and lieutenants.

Men are particularly vulnerable to these.
Very onbrand for him.

===
Also worth noting:
Its hiding its face. That could either be fashion, or it has a reasonable fear of being recognized.

The fact that the bone mask is grown means that dude has at least Bone Shintai 3, which means it can toggle invisibility, up to +6HL, +Armor and a Str+3 Agg weapon. If it has the Chi.
Respectable combat stats, and a horror to most mortals and many supernaturals.

===
This is the 30th of September. 5 days hence is October 5, so in the first week of the next turn.
The five day delay suggests that
1)Showing up at the Carpenter residence with its protections is too chancy for this thing to risk
2)They are delaying meeting until they receive reinforcements from Yomi Wan/finish recruiting/finish murdering the people they are killing in Chinatown

===
Worth noting that they are deliberately picking a meeting place that isnt a neutral venue, but rather a spot in Chinatown where they have presumably spent effort fortifying. Nor are they picking an arbitrator/guarantor from the Accords as a diplomatic mediator.
Even the Red Court picked a neutral venue with an arbitrator when they want to make an appearance of diplomacy.

Most of the Yomi Kings and their minions like to make a show of civilization , so this is curious.

Its safe to assume that violence is an option here.
On the other hand, akuma dont count as greater Creatures of Darkness, and so they are unlikely to be immune to Demonic Primacy of Essence. Its entirely feasible to show up and interrogate her instead. At least until she rolls Join Battle.

===
This is a reminder to all the people out to draw aggro with Winter. Winter exists for a reason.
I mean, its worth noting that even Mab, the Queen of Air and Darkness did not make the sorts of demands that this akuma-delivered letter has made of us.

I do wonder how much of the bluster around the Cross and Sword is bluff, and how much is sheer ignorance.
Because we know that Shiro was active in the East prior to his death, so they should know better.

===
Bright side is that, since this appears to be an akuma with Infernal Investments?
Holy water is very much a viable armament.
Stocking up on supersoakers and water balloons is potentially an option for a bunch of our allies.

Also, justification for demanding that Dresden teach us Summoning and Warding.

===
Ping Tom Boathouse is part of Ping Tom Memorial Park in Chinatown. Named for a prominent Chinese-American businessman who died in 1995, who also attended Haines Elementary. As of 2006, I dont think the boathouse been fully constructed yet; then mayor Rahm Emmanuel opened it in 2013. But this is an AU, so maybe things happened faster here.

This is what it looks like when completed:
Ping Tom Boathouse said:
Lots of water, which makes for good concealment for Yomi reinforcements to hide in and approach or retreat through, since they dont need to breathe. But also suits us very well, because Boiling Sea Mastery.

===
Note that Ping Tom attended Haines Elementary School in the 1940s.
Which confirms that the school is in Chinatown, and has been in Chicago's historic Chinatown since at least the 1940s.
Which narrows down the Recluce Murders, where the victims are all relatives of attendees of Haines.

It suggests that the akuma is hanging out somewhere in Chinatown.
 
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I don't know if we are better off going to the meeting alone or with some people. If it was in a place of desolation then bringing someone to protect would be great, but otherwise our soak isn't all that useful when we have teammates.
 
-[X] Send the vampire back carrying a message changing the location to Mac's pub at noon on the same day, and carrying an email to negotiate further details through
I strongly suggest removing this.

Like @bengalqueen said, they are not necessarily daywalkers, and for most of those who are, walking in daytime requires chi expenditure, which weakens them. This is a set of circumstances that is not going to happen. All its going to achieve is incentivize leverage. You know, like a couple civilians being sent to invite us over

And frankly, their chosen meeting point suits us just fine should they choose to engage in shenanigans.
All that water favors us, because Boiling Sea Mastery.
I disagree about Mac too. It's the only Accorded neutral ground in the city and they are trying to play stupid games with us. It's one of the few places we can get a feel for each other in person where a backstab is unlikely.
None of which prevents them from staging an ambush outside Mac's, either as we're coming or going.
Or us doing the same thing, for that matter; we wont, but they have no reason to trust us.
 
I strongly suggest removing this.

Like @bengalqueen said, they are not necessarily daywalkers, and for most of those who are, walking in daytime requires chi expenditure, which weakens them. This is a set of circumstances that is not going to happen. All its going to achieve is incentivize leverage. You know, like a couple civilians being sent to invite us over

And frankly, their chosen meeting point suits us just fine should they choose to engage in shenanigans.
All that water favors us, because Boiling Sea Mastery.
The point is more to snipe back after they treated us like loose cattle, so that they have to run another round of this to ask for something better.

I strongly disagree with the idea that any ground prepared by our enemies can ever be considered in our favor. Not without significant prior investigation at the very least.

We know our advantages, we don't know what theirs are or what they've done to the place. That should always he treated as potential dangerous, to the same degree that use asking them to take a stroll in the sunlight is.

None of which prevents them from staging an ambush outside Mac's, either as we're coming or going.
Or us doing the same thing, for that matter; we wont, but they have no reason to trust us.
All of the risk is on our shoulders for that same stuff but worse if we come to their territory though.

We aren't a supplicant and the foundation of their argument for being here is bullshit. Why give them advantages and implicitly buy into their premise?

Edit: On the civilian stuff; I doubt it'd come to mind simply because Molly feels like one of them but stronger.

If if did occur then I don't see why they wouldn't be doing it already. Their opening offer was a death threat to compel us to come spill our guts in their clubhouse and maybe they'd forgive us for stealing a weapon they lost when Winter beat them like a red headed step child who knows how long ago.

It's so openly hostile and stupid I can't help but wonder if they think Molly is literal cattle, or if this some sort of weird false flag.
 
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I have mentioned it a few times, but City of the BullGod is a fairly good ex vs WOD podcast.

Also really interested in getting Lydia those authority charms. Dog Bakemono can be brutally effective and if we get them from yes kill animal shelters we don't have to feel bad about using them for combat.
 
The point is more to snipe back after they treated us like loose cattle, so that they have to run another round of this to ask for something better.

I strongly disagree with the idea that any ground prepared by our enemies can ever be considered in our favor. Not without significant prior investigation at the very least.

We know our advantages, we don't know what theirs are or what they've done to the place. That should always he treated as potential dangerous, to the same degree that use asking them to take a stroll in the sunlight is.


All of the risk is on our shoulders for that same stuff but worse if we come to their territory though.

We aren't a supplicant and the foundation of their argument for being here is bullshit. Why give them advantages and implicitly buy into their premise?

Edit: On the civilian stuff; I doubt it'd come to mind simply because Molly feels like one of them but stronger.

If if did occur then I don't see why they wouldn't be doing it already. Their opening offer was a death threat to compel us to come spill our guts in their clubhouse and maybe they'd forgive us for stealing a weapon they lost when Winter beat them like a red headed step child who knows how long ago.

It's so openly hostile and stupid I can't help but wonder if they think Molly is literal cattle, or if this some sort of weird false flag.
Dunno. It honestly seems useful to let them keep underestimating us.
Yes they aren't treating us with the respect we deserve. But is that really a bad thing? Let them underestimate us at their own peril.

Pushing back tells them that we can push. I would rather their downfall be as sudden and unexpected as possible.

Though, maybe it would be best to decide this after we know more about their plan? Deciding if we want to try to move the location or not depends on what they are planning after all. Maybe they have a trap. Maybe not. Maybe they think they have a trap, but it's one that we can turn against them with a little prep.
 
Dunno. It honestly seems useful to let them keep underestimating us.
Yes they aren't treating us with the respect we deserve. But is that really a bad thing? Let them underestimate us at their own peril.

Pushing back tells them that we can push. I would rather their downfall be as sudden and unexpected as possible.

Though, maybe it would be best to decide this after we know more about their plan? Deciding if we want to try to move the location or not depends on what they are planning after all. Maybe they have a trap. Maybe not. Maybe they think they have a trap, but it's one that we can turn against them with a little prep.
Being underestimated isn't an advantage if you live down to the bar they set.

Coasting on the assumption that no one could possibly do anything to beat our overwhelming power is has gotten primordials, gods, and exalts of all types killed before.
 
The point is more to snipe back after they treated us like loose cattle, so that they have to run another round of this to ask for something better.

I strongly disagree with the idea that any ground prepared by our enemies can ever be considered in our favor. Not without significant prior investigation at the very least.
We know our advantages, we don't know what theirs are or what they've done to the place.
They have obviously been here long enough to have fairly reliable intel on Molly's relationships and expected movements, else they wouldnt send a minion with a letter to this graveyard.

Remember that Lydia only asked us here two days ago, on Sept 28.
This is 30 Sept.
They know a lot more about us and our friends than Im comfortable with.

Sniping might feel satisfying? But doesnt really achieve anything, and might actually backfire.
All this actually achieves is a whammied Alex/Izzy calling us by cellphone to meet them at a riverside picnic being hosted by a nice Japanese lady who wants to meet us and talk about Important Things.

Save your grudges for when they are productive, and we have a good read on our opponents.
People who will take a turned away messenger as a declaration of war need a lot more studying.
All of the risk is on our shoulders for that same stuff but worse if we come to their territory though.
See above.
Also, this is Chicago, not their territory. They havent been here long enough to turn Chicago into a Kakuri outpost.
And we have five days.

I guess we wont agree.
Thanks for answering anyway. Will put up a vote of my own in a couple minutes, using yours as a basis,
 
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VOTE
[X] Plan Demon-Empress Inquisition
-[X] Etiquette Excellency is still active. Renew if necessary
-[X] Question the vampire
—[X] Where are they dwelling
—[X] What Lady Eiko is like
—[X] How long have the servants of Kakuri been in Chicago
—[X]The nature of the mission his group is on
-[X] Use the Crown
—[X]On the vampire: "Who have his party fed on/killed since arriving in Chicago?"
—[X]On the Letter: The nature of the mission(s) his group is on. Ask after he has left
-[X] STUNT: "Akuma" Molly begins, in a soft voice that doesn't so much carry over other sounds as deaden it with its passing, "I have need of your services still". As her eyes seek answers, she pins her unnamed companion beneath the weight of her regard. "Answer me truly, promptly, and with all possible diligence and it will be as a messenger" or lie and serv re as a message promised the venomous courtesy threaded through her words. "First, I would have your name of you."


RATIONALE
Editing @BronzeTongue 's plan.
Got rid of what I didnt like in the stunt, and rearranged the order of questions so we could get the high yield questions first.

Trying to minimize what information we give away for free. If we can avoid flaring our anima banner, great.
We already have an Etiquette Excellency running.
Intimidation, Empathy and Etiquette are all 4, so we dont benefit from switching.

Questions in order of importance are those that give us subsequent avenues for investigation.
1)Their current lodgings is our Priority question.
It can be investigated and scouted in the daytime, the neighbors questioned, and the place staked out.
Even if they immediately move, it remains a Crown focus we can use to ask questions about their business.

2)Use the vampire akuma as a focus to identify their victims since arriving in Chicago.
Then use their victims, victim homes and if necessary graves, as focuses to ask Crown questions like what Emma-O knows about the Seed of Eternal Night.


3)We can use the Letter as a focus for their intentions/orders.
Which is something you dont really expect a lowlevel herald to know the details of.
And even if they know, they might not have the free will to talk about their orders, if they are akuma.
 
Being underestimated isn't an advantage if you live down to the bar they set.

Coasting on the assumption that no one could possibly do anything to beat our overwhelming power is has gotten primordials, gods, and exalts of all types killed before.
And thus we should fake humility to lull them into a false sense of security. That very assumption is the knife we will wield.
I don't think we have overwhelming power. But I do think that given time to build up an information advantage we can break anything they can make. So long as we don't put them on their guard until it's too late.

[X] Plan Demon-Empress Inquisition
 
They have obviously been here long enough to have fairly reliable intel on Molly's relationships and expected movements, else they wouldnt send a minion with a letter to this graveyard.
They'll clearly don't give a shit about playing nice, so why didn't they lead with that?

If anything other than compliance is going to get the table flipped we might as well flip it now. Question this guy, then kill him and proceed to burning their local shelter down tonight.

I guess we wont agree.
Thanks for answering anyway. Will put up a vote of my own in a couple minutes, using yours as a basis,
Fair enough, I don't expect to agree with everyone all the time. I just don't see any value in gambling with these guys. If we negotiate at all we should force them to somewhere neutral and if we're skipping to violence we should skip to violence.
And thus we should fake humility to lull them into a false sense of security. That very assumption is the knife we will wield.
I don't think we have overwhelming power. But I do think that given time to build up an information advantage we can break anything they can make. So long as we don't put them on their guard until it's too late.

[X] Plan Demon-Empress Inquisition
This feels a bit like trying to convince someone we're an idiot through the cunning plan of making bad decisions. The bad decisions still have consequences.

Signaling that we aren't a serious party makes negotiations harder, implicitly buys in to their premise, and puts us in the worst position available for starting a fight.

What makes this approach superior to hunting them down and murdering them on our terms?
 
They'll clearly don't give a shit about playing nice, so why didn't they lead with that?

If anything other than compliance is going to get the table flipped we might as well flip it now. Question this guy, then kill him and proceed to burning their local shelter down tonight.
Ok
[X]Plan flip the table
-[X] Etiquette Excellency is still active. Renew if necessary
-[X] Question the vampire
—[X] Where are they dwelling
—[X] What Lady Eiko is like
—[X] How long have the servants of Kakuri been in Chicago
—[X]The nature of the mission his group is on
-[X] Use the Crown
—[X]On the vampire: "Who have his party fed on/killed since arriving in Chicago?"
—[X]On the Letter: The nature of the mission(s) his group is on. Ask after he has left
-[X] STUNT: "Akuma" Molly begins, in a soft voice that doesn't so much carry over other sounds as deaden it with its passing, "I have need of your services still". As her eyes seek answers, she pins her unnamed companion beneath the weight of her regard. "Answer me truly, promptly, and with all possible diligence and it will be as a messenger" or lie and serv re as a message promised the venomous courtesy threaded through her words. "First, I would have your name of you."
-[x]If they have killed anyone in Chicago then kill the messager take a bleach bath and go to the their dwelling in the morning to fuck them up.

I think that God will forgive us for skipping church this week if we do it for the good cause of swording a bunch of people eating Akuma.

[X]Yog
 
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We do not know he is an Akuma or not. Just suspect it. But i do not have any other problems.
Oh, he is Akuma. Usum confirmed it when he said that was one who had known the touch of Kakuri.
What we dont know is whether his boss is akuma or something else.

Emma-O tends to use shikome in positions of trust, so there's a significant chance that Lady Eiko is not akuma.

Edit: On the civilian stuff; I doubt it'd come to mind simply because Molly feels like one of them but stronger.

If if did occur then I don't see why they wouldn't be doing it already. Their opening offer was a death threat to compel us to come spill our guts in their clubhouse and maybe they'd forgive us for stealing a weapon they lost when Winter beat them like a red headed step child who knows how long ago.

It's so openly hostile and stupid I can't help but wonder if they think Molly is literal cattle, or if this some sort of weird false flag.
I considered the prospect of a false flag due to the mask and dismissed it because Usum eyeballed this fellow as being from Kakuri. While another YK might be willing to pull something like that, they wouldnt do it blind.
And the akuma/demon diplomat would be recognizable.

===
Having thought about it? One word: Hubris. Its an occupational trait for the Yomi Kings.
Their entire history is rife with episodes of it, both individually, like the guy who tried to go sup on the poisoned aftermath of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings and has been in a poisoned coma ever since, and institutionally, like when they collectively defied the August Personage in Jade.

In the last thousand years in this AU, Emma-O and his subjects have tried to come to conclusions with Winter itself and gotten slapped down hard, and their then-toy taken away and buried in the heart of Mab's domain; thats where we found Usum.


Emma-O was canonically around back in 2000 BC, making his reign at least 4000 years and counting.
Older than Christianity, older than the Faerie Courts as they currently exist.
Arrogance would usually be justified towards a mortal 17 year old with a three month old investiture of Power.


And under normal circumstances, they'd be right: Even if we had the personal power of an Methuselah, or a Jade Court arhat, we'd still be one person against the might of one of the top five Yomi Kings and his supernatural nation. It would be like the US sending a diplomat to make demands of an African oligarch; doesnt matter if they come off as arrogant or insulting.

The fuck are you gonna do about it?

Unfortunately for them, we're a Solaroid. An Infernal.
And as evinced by his demands, he doesnt have any idea what that means. Not yet.
He will. I can wait to enlighten him.


Also worth remembering:
The Jade Court are not officially signatories of the Accords, but are treated as if they are. The Yomi Kings, as far as we know, are not. And even if some of them are, that doesnt mean the rest are, or that they wont break it if they see advantage.

Its like with the Denarians.
The Order of the Blackened Denarius were signatories to the Accords, at least until they saw a reason to break it in Small Favor.
Nicodemus Archleone and Anduriel, explicitly were not.

I would caution against assuming Emma-O or his subjects care about breaking the Accords, or violating Mab-guaranteed neutral places if its convenient. I mean, its not like they havent gone to war with Winter before.
And the heart of their power is, by Word of QM, far from where Winter's power is strongest.
 
This feels a bit like trying to convince someone we're an idiot through the cunning plan of making bad decisions. The bad decisions still have consequences.

Signaling that we aren't a serious party makes negotiations harder, implicitly buys in to their premise, and puts us in the worst position available for starting a fight.

What makes this approach superior to hunting them down and murdering them on our terms?

Hunting them down on our terms is in fact exactly what I am expecting we will do. The superior part is that we can spend three days investigating them and securing allies before sweeping them on the fourth.
Whereas if we kill the messenger then the clock starts now. They will know the game has changed and start reacting.

Admittedly we may discover something that makes us want to show up for the negotiation/ambush. Like if they are expecting reinforcements to arrive, and we decide we want to set up a counter ambush to wipe out their reinforcements too. Best to keep our options open.

But playing the negotiation game buys into the premise that we care about negotiating with them at all. Whereas I would prefer to let them think that everything is going to plan right until we kick in the door.

Either way even if we do want to start making diplomatic moves, we really don't know enough about the board. How much do they know? How much force did they bring? Is the letter bluster, or will they try to force us into the meeting if we try to change the location?
Making a diplomatic power play before we are even sure of what game we are playing seems risky to me.
 
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