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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Artemis1992 said:
It's not 100% certain, he might just be a minion of Kakuri who does not owe his soul or part of it to Emma-O, but that seems unlikely.
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Usum has no way to see souls, no more than you do, he just recognized that that a young Wuan Kuei without knowledge of their traditions is most likely Akuma in at least the broader political sense. The other alternative, that they are one of those rare souls to grope their way towards enlightenment or at least sanity seemed unlikely given that he had come here as the herald of some higher power.
 
Alratan said:
2nd Age Lintha are descended from 1st Age Lintha.
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Only in the since that they share the name and alligence. But Modern Lintha are just humans with some Demon blood. 1st Age Lintha where on par with DB in power. They have fallen far, kind of like Buffy vampires the original vampires mooks where stronger then 99% of modern demons. 2nd Age Lintha can't even keep enlightened essences as a dominate trait.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
[X] Plan Hail to the Queen
-[X] Use Intimidation Excellency
-[X] Question the vampire
—[X] The nature of the mission his group is on
—[X] What Lady Eiko is like
—[X] what forces he's aware of in the area
-[X] Use the Crown
—[X] On the vampire: "What does the ultimate faction behind this messenger know of what they call the dark seed?"
-[X] Stunt: "Akuma " Molly begins, in a soft voice that doesn't so much carry over other sounds as deaden it with its passing, "I have need of your services still".
-[X] As her countless eyes open to seek answers, she pins her unnamed companion beneath the weight of her regard. "Answer me truly, promptly, and with all possible diligence and it will be as a messenger" or lie and serve as a message promised the venomous courtesy threaded through her words.
-[X] Send the vampire back carrying a message changing the location to Mac's pub at noon on the same day, and carrying an email to negotiate further details through.

Not sure about the last bit, it's mostly just to poke them back for poking us.

Even if they don't have a way to mind control him they still have a good supernatural link and the possibility of good old fashion pressure games. The possibility of owning his own soul again could lead a person into all kinds of unfortunate decisions.

Edit: fixed some errors
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I like this plan a lot, but regarding the question - why this one? Wouldn't their plans be more relevant? We have at least three foci:
1) The vampire himself
2) The place of their residence (this requires questioning the vampire about it)
3) The letter

The letter I really want to use to see if we can locate other exaltations. We need to know their plans, and we might want to know what they know of our exaltation. The plans have a priority.

Finally, I think we have to acknowledge that by serving us as a messenger, the vampire in front of us will fall under MiS. We need to mention this to him I feel. Not as a recruitment attempt. As an intimidation tactic, if nothing else "know, that by serving me even in this small way, you have been marked. My power touches you and there is no escape".
 
Yog said:
I like this plan a lot, but regarding the question - why this one? Wouldn't their plans be more relevant? We have at least three foci:
1) The vampire himself
2) The place of their residence (this requires questioning the vampire about it)
3) The letter

The letter I really want to use to see if we can locate other exaltations. We need to know their plans, and we might want to know what they know of our exaltation. The plans have a priority.

Finally, I think we have to acknowledge that by serving us as a messenger, the vampire in front of us will fall under MiS. We need to mention this to him I feel. Not as a recruitment attempt. As an intimidation tactic, if nothing else "know, that by serving me even in this small way, you have been marked. My power touches you and there is no escape".
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I don't want to burn too much essence right now, and we don't have to because we can take the letter with us to use as a focus later.

I think covering the forces he's aware of in the city will give us plenty of foci, so I don't see a need to add an additional question on the specific location of their headquarters.

On the next bit; I know you want to poke other exaltations, but I very emphatically do not. I'd rather not have dealing with that consume the quest just yet. Really, even if we do know it isn't relevant to us yet because we can't do anything about it, so it's a waste.

As to the MiS stuff, we don't owe this guy anything and he probably won't even notice if we don't point it out. I also wouldn't be that surprised if he gets vivisected if he goes back knowing he's got a trace of our power on him and is compelled to give a truthful report. Simpler just to send him on his way.

Edit:

To be clear; I want to know more IC about the exaltations, which is why I asked about it. I just have zero interest in pursuing leads to find more of them if we don't have to.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
On the next bit; I know you want to poke other exaltations, but I very emphatically do not. I'd rather not have dealing with that consume the quest just yet. Really, even if we do know it isn't relevant to us yet because we can't do anything about it, so it's a waste.
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One very possible explanation for their current interest is that they either have, or believe they can get, more exaltations in their hands. That's something we need to know. I don't want to be surprised by a full infernal circle loyal to Emma-O or Nicodemus Archeleone.
BronzeTongue said:
As to the MiS stuff, we don't owe this guy anything and he probably won't even notice if we don't point it out. I also wouldn't be that surprised if he gets vivisected if he goes back knowing he's got a trace of our power on him and is compelled to give a truthful report. Simpler just to send him on his way.
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Judging by Thomas and others, sudden removal of supernatural hunger is not something one misses. It's easily and quickly noticeable. And he'll be under the effect for at least as long as it takes him to get back to his superior, which might be more than an hour. He'll notice for sure. And the chances of him getting vivisected are higher if he can't answer "what is the supernatural effect this thief cast on you?".
 
Yog said:
One very possible explanation for their current interest is that they either have, or believe they can get, more exaltations in their hands. That's something we need to know. I don't want to be surprised by a full infernal circle loyal to Emma-O or Nicodemus Archeleone.
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If they had Infernals under their control, they wouldn't need or want us to share our fragmentary information on our Exaltation.

Pretty sure they want our Exaltation back as the primary motive here.
Either through our service or by claiming it after we die.
 
Artemis1992 said:
If they had Infernals under their control, they wouldn't need or want us to share our fragmentary information on our Exaltation.

Pretty sure they want our Exaltation back as the primary motive here.
Either through our service or by claiming it after we die.
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I did not say exalted. I said exaltations. Ours was found deep in the Nevernever, unearthed in an area close to Kakuri called "the Scar" clad in black jade. It's possible they have found more, or are planning to look for more. Questions regarding "how do exaltations actually work" would be relevant for them, so they can choose whether to keep using them as weapons, or to make their own exalts.
 
Yog said:
One very possible explanation for their current interest is that they either have, or believe they can get, more exaltations in their hands. That's something we need to know. I don't want to be surprised by a full infernal circle loyal to Emma-O or Nicodemus Archeleone
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That would be some ridiculous escalation, and also be revealed to us under the question I'm asking about what the Kakuri faction as a whole knows about exaltations anyway.

I also think you're assuming a lot in the idea that they have multiple exaltations in use. The letter addressed it as a singular title, and there's good odds they'd have found some in the ages they used Usum in if they were going to find a bunch of them at all.

Barring compelling evidence otherwise I think it's safe to assume there aren't full circles of people just like us but better waiting in the wings to ruin everything and dominate the quest.
Yog said:
Judging by Thomas and others, sudden removal of supernatural hunger is not something one misses. It's easily and quickly noticeable. And he'll be under the effect for at least as long as it takes him to get back to his superior, which might be more than an hour. He'll notice for sure. And the chances of him getting vivisected are higher if he can't answer "what is the supernatural effect this thief cast on you?"
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Thomas and the ghouls constantly live on subsistence diets, the hunger going away is probably pretty obvious. This jade is almost certainly of the well fed variety, so not being hungry isn't necessarily going to be as obvious to him.

Yog said:
I did not say exalted. I said exaltations. Ours was found deep in the Nevernever, unearthed in an area close to Kakuri called "the Scar" clad in black jade. It's possible they have found more, or are planning to look for more. Questions regarding "how do exaltations actually work" would be relevant for them, so they can choose whether to keep using them as weapons, or to make their own exalts.
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They've almost certainly been searching for ages, we have no reason to believe that they have anything or will for ages more. If they do asking about their knowledge of the topic is better than asking about where they are because it'd clarify more relevant details.

And you're kind of arguing a distinction without difference. If they have exaltations the problem for us would be the release of new exalts. Your own example was of them jumping us with a full circle of infernals.
 
Use our Question on the messenger to map as much of their operations as we can.
Then show up in four days, the day before the meeting, kick in the door, and show them why you make threats near Molly's family.
After all there is no implicit truce if the meeting hasn't started yet.

Also, if they do have something planned to capture us, then it's probably something nasty and esoteric. Maybe it's time to invest in a good shaping defense? It would be expensive, but with the amount of exp we have coming down the line we can afford it.
 
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It would be so satisfying to call out Emma-O as a neonate squatter pretending at ancient wisdom and kingship.

Too unwise to actually do it but goddamn would it be satisfying
 
[X] Plan Hail to the Queen mod. Yog
-[X] Use Intimidation Excellency
-[X] Question the vampire
--[X] The nature of the mission his group is on
--[X] What Lady Eiko is like
--[X] what forces he's aware of in the area
-[X] Use the Crown
--[X] On the vampire: "What are the ultimate faction's behind this messenger plans in regards to me and mine?"
-[X] Stunt: "Akuma " Molly begins, in a soft voice that doesn't so much carry over other sounds as deaden it with its passing, "I have need of your services still".
--[X] As her countless eyes open to seek answers, she pins her unnamed companion beneath the weight of her regard. "Answer me truly, promptly, and with all possible diligence and it will be as a messenger" or lie and serve as a message promised the venomous courtesy threaded through her words.
--[X] Send the vampire back carrying a message changing the location to Mac's pub at noon on the same day, and carrying an email to negotiate further details through.
--[X] As the messenger leaves, Molly's parting words echo in his mind: "Know, even as your mistress does not, that I am more than fair in paying what is owed; you should feel my generosity for your service, short as it might be"

Added a parting line about MiS, tying it into the whole "do we owe them?" thing (no, we do not, at all, but the effect is automatic, and we might as well confuse them a bit). And changed the Crown question. The reason for this is because we have a much better focus for the question made by @BronzeTongue . We have the Big Book of Yomi Wan. We can use it to ask "what do forces talked about in this book know about the thing Emma-O refers to as the black seed?" using it, and learn not just about Emma-O's knowledge, but about all the hells knowledge.
 
Yog said:
Added a parting line about MiS, tying it into the whole "do we owe them?" thing (no, we do not, at all, but the effect is automatic, and we might as well confuse them a bit). And changed the Crown question. The reason for this is because we have a much better focus for the question made by @BronzeTongue . We have the Big Book of Yomi Wan. We can use it to ask "what do forces talked about in this book know about the thing Emma-O refers to as the black seed?" using it, and learn not just about Emma-O's knowledge, but about all the hells knowledge.
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That's a fair point, assuming we can target the book that way.

Still don't really like explaining anything. We can't hide our abilities exactly, but flashes of detail without context aren't as useful. It's a minor difference, but I'd rather not give them a free sample of the exact stuff they're here for.

[X] Plan Hail to the Queen
-[X] Use Intimidation Excellency
-[X] Question the vampire
—[X] The nature of the mission his group is on
—[X] What Lady Eiko is like
—[X] what forces he's aware of in the area
-[X] Use the Crown
—[X] On the vampire: "What does the ultimate faction behind this messenger know of what they call the dark seed?"
-[X] Stunt: "Akuma " Molly begins, in a soft voice that doesn't so much carry over other sounds as deaden it with its passing, "I have need of your services still".
-[X] As her countless eyes open to seek answers, she pins her unnamed companion beneath the weight of her regard. "Answer me truly, promptly, and with all possible diligence and it will be as a messenger" or lie and serve as a message promised the venomous courtesy threaded through her words.
-[X] Send the vampire back carrying a message changing the location to Mac's pub at noon on the same day, and carrying an email to negotiate further details through.

[X] Plan Hail to the Queen v2
-[X] Use Intimidation Excellency
-[X] Question the vampire
—[X] The nature of the mission his group is on
—[X] What Lady Eiko is like
—[X] what forces he's aware of in the area
-[X] Use the Crown
—[X] On the vampire: "What are the ultimate faction's behind this messenger plans in regards to me and mine?"
—[X] When Molly gets home, target the big book of Yomi Wan and ask "What do the factions described within this book know of what Emma-O calls the seed of darkness?"
-[X] Stunt: "Akuma " Molly begins, in a soft voice that doesn't so much carry over other sounds as deaden it with its passing, "I have need of your services still".
-[X] As her countless eyes open to seek answers, she pins her unnamed companion beneath the weight of her regard. "Answer me truly, promptly, and with all possible diligence and it will be as a messenger" or lie and serve as a message promised the venomous courtesy threaded through her words.
-[X] Send the vampire back carrying a message changing the location to Mac's pub at noon on the same day, and carrying an email to negotiate further details through.

Approval voting my old plan, and one with changes based on (part of) what you've outlined. If we're using the book for the seed of darkness stuff it seems like it'd make sense to make the mental note IC to do that later here.
 
Can I ask what the point of MiS on the messenger is? It seems like tipping our cards unnecessarily.

It's not like we have to let it activate. We can put arbitrary conditions on our service after all. Just never let MiS activate for this messenger. There seems little reason to.
 
Alratan said:
Going full 'Kneel Before ZOD!' in public and it working may have consequences though, but possibly ones that are worth it.
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That would be Crowwned With Fury (•••) (9 XP). Or Kneel or Be Knelt (••) (6 XP) although KoBK seems to suck.
Alratan said:
Basically; Iris Bulb Commerce is a legal/bureaucratic process. It's not soul surgery, it's contract law. The thing you need to steal back if you want rights to your soul is the contract.

People have apparently managed that IIRC.

We could make his soul his own by breaking into Kakuri, finding the record office, and taking the relevant document, like stealing mortgage deeds from the bank.

That doesn't mean that VEE would work.
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Don't see why not. It's a flaw on the character sheet. It isn't nearly as big a deal as getting rid of Flaw: Enemy (some large organization). Of course now the person has the Flaw: In debt to the Infernal Molly.

When we get VEE then whenever we find a minion who is a minion because of some sort of coercion (blood bond, debt, kidnapped friend) we can get them to wish it away and they become our minion under even greater coercion. It's the Infernal way. End of Sadness does it all the time in Podcast game Exalted vs WOD City of the Bull God.
 
JayTar said:
Can I ask what the point of MiS on the messenger is? It seems like tipping our cards unnecessarily.

It's not like we have to let it activate. We can put arbitrary conditions on our service after all. Just never let MiS activate for this messenger. There seems little reason to.
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If we can that'd be ideal. @DragonParadox can we exclude people from benefiting from MiS while still ordering them around, or is it something that can't be avoided?
 
Uhhh, we don't know that any of the vampires we're meeting are daywalkers, they might be physically unable to make a noon meeting. Trying to insist otherwise would make us look dumb or ignorant and cost us bargaining power.

Mac's pub is a good idea, and the same one I had, but we'll probably have to settle for a nighttime meeting.

I have a stunt I've been thinking on, give me a couple hours to deal with IRL stuff and boot up my computer instead of typing on my phone, and I'll throw my own plan into the ring.
 
If we make a world. I am fine with anything. But i need its fluff to incorporate some parts of the star trek prespective, in a nod to her mind scape during the sould sight.
 
I would prefer not meeting at Mac's pub. It's not the sort of place we would want hostilities to break out.
And lets be honest here. They aren't going to be negotiating in good faith. We won't be either.

Plus, insisting that the meeting be sooner doesn't really benefit us much. They had as much time to prepare as they wanted before contacting us. Unless five days from now is some sort of magically significant time, they should already have their preparations done. So cutting down the five days just reduces how much time we have to prepare and dive into their operations.

Honestly my preferred response here would be to imply that we will be there for the meeting without committing to it. Then investigate/prepare/confer with allies.

High likelihood that they have some relation to the deaths Harry is investigating. Cross reference the information we get here with Harry's notes. That gives us enough of a casus belli to come down on them with fire and sword. No need to worry about a meeting in five days if they are all dead in four.
 
bengalqueen said:
Uhhh, we don't know that any of the vampires we're meeting are daywalkers, they might be physically unable to make a noon meeting. Trying to insist otherwise would make us look dumb or ignorant and cost us bargaining power.

Mac's pub is a good idea, and the same one I had, but we'll probably have to settle for a nighttime meeting.

I have a stunt I've been thinking on, give me a couple hours to deal with IRL stuff and boot up my computer instead of typing on my phone, and I'll throw my own plan into the ring.
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I figure the big cheese is, since she's a full Akuma and they get artificial boosts to elder status.

Bargaining power is a concern, but I don't think this will cost us much if anything. They came an made an insulting and aggressive offer, we tell them to take a barefoot jog on broken glass but still name a more reasonable location.

Then they have to come back and either work it out or directly admit they can't and ask us for some consideration. They know what we're doing, we know that they know, and so on.

It's a "fuck you too buddy" add on, but it does match their tone and force them to be the ones to ask for a compromise if they seriously want to meet.
Acolyte said:
If we make a world. I am fine with anything. But i need its fluff to incorporate some parts of the star trek prespective, in a nod to her mind scape during the sould sight.
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That wasn't exactly her mind scape though. It was Dresden's perception of her. Every wizard sees this sort of thing differently, and the accuracy is in what the metaphor expresses rather than what it literally is.

Sticking in random Star Trek crap would just be tacky.
JayTar said:
I would prefer not meeting at Mac's pub. It's not the sort of place we would want hostilities to break out.
And lets be honest here. They aren't going to be negotiating in good faith. We won't be either.
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The current plans are noon the same day, it doesn't exactly cost us much time.

I disagree about Mac too. It's the only Accorded neutral ground in the city and they are trying to play stupid games with us. It's one of the few places we can get a feel for each other in person where a backstab is unlikely.

If they start a fight there we get to kick back and watch Mab flay them alive for crossing Winter, so I don't see them pulling something as a negative if they try it there.
 
BronzeTongue said:
That wasn't exactly her mind scape though. It was Dresden's perception of her. Every wizard sees this sort of thing differently, and the accuracy is in what the metaphor expresses rather than what it literally is.

Sticking in random Star Trek crap would just be tacky
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It adds more variety than a alll the brass all the time. Its not just our Exaltation its also mollys soul and thats certainly isn't all doom and gloom brass.
 
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