The notion that Skaven may have better built-in mechanisms to cut off the spiral of civilizational self-extinction compared to humans (climate change, nuclear Armageddon, etc), strikes me as both hilarious and also very sad.
Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy
- Thread starter Blackout
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- Fantasy
The notion that Skaven may have better built-in mechanisms to cut off the spiral of civilizational self-extinction compared to humans (climate change, nuclear Armageddon, etc), strikes me as both hilarious and also very sad.
Andy0915
I should write something clever here but...effort.
- Location
- Planet Earth
[X] Offer a compromise option to gather the corpses into a pile and then burn them with your spells.
Hurray! Everyone of importance(to us at least) survived!
And best of all; our clients are still alive so we are still on track to getting paid.
Hurray! Everyone of importance(to us at least) survived!
And best of all; our clients are still alive so we are still on track to getting paid.
Xexilf
Oblivion Sempiternum Daemonis
They kinda have to have such things? I mean their society is by design in a more or less constant state of low intensity chaotic civil war, backstabbing and plotting, and somehow stays functional enough to be a threat in spite of that. Some of that is probably their god, who is one of the more active ones, tilting things to keep them working, but since he hardly will personally fix every little thing, the whole system must be somehow built to keep working even in these conditions.
Modifiers
Blackout
Fed By Comments
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- Who knows?
So anyway, with the first battle of the quest now behind us, I thought I'd take a moment to talk about some of the mechanics of the quest, specifically modifiers to the rolls that are made over the course of the game.
The most important modifiers are of course the statistics, which usually stay unchanged. The inherent abilities of one's species are generally already baked into one's stats- Fanriel's Prowess score already includes her inhuman speed and reflexes as an elf, and her Magic stat includes her innate elven attunement to the Winds. However, in a situation that specifically favours speed and agility, like trying to dodge and deflect missile attacks, she may receive a bonus for being an elf, because her Prowess score only represents her general combat ability in a vacuum. Equally she might avoid miscasts better than a human wizard of equal Magic score, because elves are inherently good at predicting the ebb and flow of magic and adjusting to it. A dwarf might receive a similar bonus to armwrestling or trying to throw off the effects of poison, while an ogre would get one when charging into combat or lifting things.
Situational modifiers are naturally also prevalent, and can range from favorable terrain to just being really pissed off. As you would think these are highly context-specific, like the Marauders getting a +20 for the cavalry charge but changing into a +10 for being mounted once the force of the charge had been spent, and obviously there would have been no such modifier if both sides were mounted. Also, I am the final authority on what these modifiers are in the end, and don't expect them to be the same numbers every time, because again, context-dependent.
An important source of situational modifiers is equipment, which broadly speaking represents how much better your equipment is than your opponent's. You may have noticed that Fanriel got a +30 modifier against the lightly-equipped Marauder Horsemen, but it dropped down to +25 against the Champion with notably better armour. If she were to fight, say, Tyrion wearing the Dragon Armour of Aenarion and wielding the Sunfang, then he'd be the one getting an equipment modifier against her. Like other modifiers, these are subject to change depending on the situation: plate armour might not give as much of a bonus if fighting someone with warhammer that pierces through armour. Nor are the effects of equipment entirely confined to the modifier: for an example, Fanriel's bonus during the battle included the extra strength and toughness granted by the Silverine Plate, but not its automatic deflection feature that would've only activated if she'd lost really, really badly, and the reason the Swordmasters only took some injuries despite a difference of 40 in their end result compared to the Marauders was, besides Fanriel in turn beating the Kurgans by 50, that they are all wearing masterwork Ithilmar chainmail.
Speaking of which, modifiers can also affect how the end result is interpreted, to some degree. The defensive bonus from channelling Azyr through Lightfang might help you win a round of close combat and prevent your opponent from hurting you, but it won't help you inflict damage on them in turn. Vice versa for the Ghur effect, and so on.
At the moment I'm handling combat as opposed rolls because I like the granularity in interpreting the results it provides, but I may transition into a model where there's only one roll and your stats count as bonuses while the enemy's count as penalties, especially if the amount of rolls I need to do per update becomes too much.
The most important modifiers are of course the statistics, which usually stay unchanged. The inherent abilities of one's species are generally already baked into one's stats- Fanriel's Prowess score already includes her inhuman speed and reflexes as an elf, and her Magic stat includes her innate elven attunement to the Winds. However, in a situation that specifically favours speed and agility, like trying to dodge and deflect missile attacks, she may receive a bonus for being an elf, because her Prowess score only represents her general combat ability in a vacuum. Equally she might avoid miscasts better than a human wizard of equal Magic score, because elves are inherently good at predicting the ebb and flow of magic and adjusting to it. A dwarf might receive a similar bonus to armwrestling or trying to throw off the effects of poison, while an ogre would get one when charging into combat or lifting things.
Situational modifiers are naturally also prevalent, and can range from favorable terrain to just being really pissed off. As you would think these are highly context-specific, like the Marauders getting a +20 for the cavalry charge but changing into a +10 for being mounted once the force of the charge had been spent, and obviously there would have been no such modifier if both sides were mounted. Also, I am the final authority on what these modifiers are in the end, and don't expect them to be the same numbers every time, because again, context-dependent.
An important source of situational modifiers is equipment, which broadly speaking represents how much better your equipment is than your opponent's. You may have noticed that Fanriel got a +30 modifier against the lightly-equipped Marauder Horsemen, but it dropped down to +25 against the Champion with notably better armour. If she were to fight, say, Tyrion wearing the Dragon Armour of Aenarion and wielding the Sunfang, then he'd be the one getting an equipment modifier against her. Like other modifiers, these are subject to change depending on the situation: plate armour might not give as much of a bonus if fighting someone with warhammer that pierces through armour. Nor are the effects of equipment entirely confined to the modifier: for an example, Fanriel's bonus during the battle included the extra strength and toughness granted by the Silverine Plate, but not its automatic deflection feature that would've only activated if she'd lost really, really badly, and the reason the Swordmasters only took some injuries despite a difference of 40 in their end result compared to the Marauders was, besides Fanriel in turn beating the Kurgans by 50, that they are all wearing masterwork Ithilmar chainmail.
Speaking of which, modifiers can also affect how the end result is interpreted, to some degree. The defensive bonus from channelling Azyr through Lightfang might help you win a round of close combat and prevent your opponent from hurting you, but it won't help you inflict damage on them in turn. Vice versa for the Ghur effect, and so on.
At the moment I'm handling combat as opposed rolls because I like the granularity in interpreting the results it provides, but I may transition into a model where there's only one roll and your stats count as bonuses while the enemy's count as penalties, especially if the amount of rolls I need to do per update becomes too much.
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As a mechanics note, opposed rolls create results that tend to be more average. A single role has a flat distribution where rolling the worst roll is exactly as likely as rolling the median roll.
Opposed rolls have a bellcurve. You are 100 times more likely to roll the median result (Rolling the same as the opposition) as you are rolling the worst result (rolling a 1 while they roll a 100).
I encourage you to consider how swingy you want combat to be when determining if you want to use a single or opposed rolls. Opposed rolls tendency to produce more median values actually makes modifiers more important as the one with the highest modifier is less likely to have the roll upset that advantage.
My preference is opposed rolls.
Opposed rolls have a bellcurve. You are 100 times more likely to roll the median result (Rolling the same as the opposition) as you are rolling the worst result (rolling a 1 while they roll a 100).
I encourage you to consider how swingy you want combat to be when determining if you want to use a single or opposed rolls. Opposed rolls tendency to produce more median values actually makes modifiers more important as the one with the highest modifier is less likely to have the roll upset that advantage.
My preference is opposed rolls.
Where would single rolls that include the enemy's opposing stats fall, in your opinion?
E.g. 1d100 +30(Fanriel's Prowess)-20(Marauder Champion's Prowess)
As it's a single roll, it'd still be a more flat distribution, right? Since all that's been done is shift the numbers so the maximum and the minimum ends of the distribution change by a fixed amount. I'm curious as to your opinion on that method of representing opposition with dice.
Also, aaaaaaaaaaaaah!
The update was so good! Fanriel went absolutely bananas!
Who needs the Lore of Dark Magic when you can be your own Bladewind?
I know I've said it before but I get super happy every time I see the beloved crew of fanmade Swordmasters.
Also:
Liandra: "Am I being stereotyped?"
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[X] Offer a compromise option to gather the corpses into a pile and then burn them with your spells.
The update was so good! Fanriel went absolutely bananas!
Who needs the Lore of Dark Magic when you can be your own Bladewind?
I know I've said it before but I get super happy every time I see the beloved crew of fanmade Swordmasters.
Also:
Got to have some folks start killing every enemy left nearby. Get the officer to take command on it and give him the angry elf and the Nagarythian to dispatch the remaining wounded/cohesionless foes.
Liandra: "Am I being stereotyped?"
(
)[X] Offer a compromise option to gather the corpses into a pile and then burn them with your spells.
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That creates a flat distribution. It doesn't matter where the dice fall, what matters is the distribution of end results. Flat modifiers don't modify the distribution shape. They only shift that distribution back and forth without actually changing it's shape.
Basically it boils down to this -
1d100 produces a result between 1 and 99. It is as likely to produce a 1 as it is a 100 as it is a 50.
1d100-1d100 produces a result between -99 and 99. It is as likely to produce a -99 as a 99, but it is 100 times more likely to produce a 0 than ether a -99 or 99.
If we assume that the best and worst outcomes are determined by the event (so rolling a 1 and a -99 are the same mechanically) you can see that a flat +1 is worth twice as much in a single die roll as an opposed roll because the single die roll has half the spread of a double die roll. The thing is that in a flat roll each additional +1 has the same effect as the last, adding 5% to the odds of victory. In an opposed roll this isn't the case. A +1 adds about 1% success chance to the roll, but each additional +1 adds more than +1% success chance. Advantage rapidly becomes a bigger deal.
Where you stick modifiers really doesn't matter. You can move a +X from one side of an equation to the other by flipping the sign without actually changing the math.
Gotcha, that's what I thought. Thank you for clarifying in detail!
Blackout
Fed By Comments
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Hmm, I see what you mean. I'll have to think about it.
If the shoe fits, the defence moves to acquit, Ms. Sword of Damocles.
Also glad you liked the update.
I deserved that
If you want to go to a single "Roll" that you add modifiers to producing a result you can always just roll 2d50 instead of 1d100. It produces a bell curve over the same maximum and minimum that you can add a collective modifier to.
While I have my preferences, whatever you decide is fine. I just think it's best if people understand the difference between two options when thinking it over.
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[X] Offer a compromise option to gather the corpses into a pile and then burn them with your spells.
- Pronouns
- He
[X] Offer a compromise option to gather the corpses into a pile and then burn them with your spells.
Lookashiny
First and Only
- Location
- Tanith
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Offer a compromise option to gather the corpses into a pile and then burn them with your spells.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
An elf necromancer would be terrifying. The natural resistance to mutations of the elves gives them less risks of becoming stark-raving mad. Druchii sorceresses are pretty messed in the head, but they're still able to function fairly well in a society. Combined with the elvish talent for using the Winds and a live that doesn't need dangerous experiments to lengthen, they would basically be saner Necrarchs.
Their name would be... Drachelfels!
And on the other hand an elf would be less likely to be drawn to necromancy in the first place because they live so long anyway. Why mess about with dark magics to sustain yourself when you can just use khainite blood sorcerery to do the same at much less cost.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Offer a compromise option to gather the corpses into a pile and then burn them with your spells.