- It does not say in the book (even though other powers do have a specified time *grumble grumble*) so I am going to say an hour sounds fair and like something the Shih would find reasonable in their line of work
- Anima would trump this yes as it is a direct manifestation of your soul into the mortal world
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
She has played Oblivion yeah, Paladin of the Nine Divines with the expansion. One thing about the super energy drink is that while it may remove the need for sleep it does not give you willpower.
Remember that potions take time to make and then they only last for a short amount of time before they go off.
But it doesn't remove the need for sleep? It reduces the need for sleep to one hour per night, at no negative effects, which likely means that it makes sleep more effective.
We could afford to spend several hours per week to brew it.
Oh sure then that one hour gets you the willpower regen, though it would also come with the risk of nightmares same as if you had slept longer.
Just to articulate why this approach bothers me so much further; in my mind there are basically two major things to keep in mind for character design, narrative and mechanics.
Narratively I find this entire approach distasteful. It reads to me like someone looking to avoid dealing with their problems through the application of fantastic cosmic powers and succeeding at precisely that.
Meng doesn't actually address the trauma causing the nightmares, it adds something to suppress them. If we for some reason went to sleep properly after acquiring the skill we'd still roll against them. Which doesn't matter mechanically because we'd basically never do that, but demonstrates the character issue.
It's the difference between going to physical therapy and choosing to just take pain pills forever.
Even worse, it's something that is almost certainly something that will take more effort to accomplish in it of itself. Which paints the classic narrative of a young person thinking they can solve everything with power and going to a lot of trouble that ultimately only handles the surface issues they were dealing with.
A narrative Molly has already gone through prior to the start of the quest.
Mechanically that translates to spending mutually exclusive opportunities, exp, and ap on something in excess of what's needed to solve our actual problem so that we can force a particular patch into place.
So from where I sit it seems like a failure on all fronts. It's being billed as a quick fix when it isn't actually that quick or really a fix. Its only virtue is being straightforward to implement.
This is highly subjective, so I don't expect everyone to agree, but I wanted to make a broader argument than just "spending exp bad" which is where I've sort of been drifting rhetorically.
Narratively I find this entire approach distasteful. It reads to me like someone looking to avoid dealing with their problems through the application of fantastic cosmic powers and succeeding at precisely that.
Meng doesn't actually address the trauma causing the nightmares, it adds something to suppress them. If we for some reason went to sleep properly after acquiring the skill we'd still roll against them. Which doesn't matter mechanically because we'd basically never do that, but demonstrates the character issue.
It's the difference between going to physical therapy and choosing to just take pain pills forever.
Even worse, it's something that is almost certainly something that will take more effort to accomplish in it of itself. Which paints the classic narrative of a young person thinking they can solve everything with power and going to a lot of trouble that ultimately only handles the surface issues they were dealing with.
A narrative Molly has already gone through prior to the start of the quest.
Mechanically that translates to spending mutually exclusive opportunities, exp, and ap on something in excess of what's needed to solve our actual problem so that we can force a particular patch into place.
So from where I sit it seems like a failure on all fronts. It's being billed as a quick fix when it isn't actually that quick or really a fix. Its only virtue is being straightforward to implement.
This is highly subjective, so I don't expect everyone to agree, but I wanted to make a broader argument than just "spending exp bad" which is where I've sort of been drifting rhetorically.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Oh, I know. Personally, I am in favor of actually finding a therapist, or at the very least buying "no nightmares" option. Talking to the monk, but not going for the martial arts is the start of that path for me.
The only reason to learn different martial arts right now I can see is to be able to recreate Celestial Martial Arts from first principles and multiple terrestrial ones. With Constructive Convergence of Principles.
- Location
- Georgia
there exists running meditation IRL, it should work for Infernal.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Huh. The vote is a simple [] Yes so I thought you were voting yog blankly.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Don't know about auto-fail Exalted detect people sneaking up on them when sleeping all the time (and we have a demon in our head to help pay attention), but I would expect the difficulty of perception to increase.
Using charms and Shih arts to get around the need to sleep is not precisely throwing power at the problem, it is more... transhumanist than that, at least as I see them. The nightmares are the issue you guys are trying to get around, one which the Shih can put off for a time using the Bridge of Dreams, but which even their iron-forged will must eventually face (or else go to the perilous extreme of attempting to cut from their own minds). Molly however is not human, there are ways she can change that, wholly abandon the need for sleep. Should she go that route? Well that is up to a future vote, but it is a thing you guys can do.
I will look into that if and when there comes a time for me to describe this
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I personally hope that learning both will lead us to be able to come up with a celestial upgrade to the technique. "Nightmare eating style" maybe. Where where we can use our nightmares and the nightmares of others as a source of strength.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Sure why not lets be more specific.
[x] Yes
I think we'd need Constructive Convergence of Principles to make Celestial Martial Arts. Because that's definitely a wonder.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Yes
-[X]... and ask to learn the Qiao of the Meng starting next month (Locks Action)
-[X]... and ask to learn the Qiao of the Meng starting next month (Locks Action)
- Location
- Germany
[X] Yes
-[X]... and ask to learn the Qiao of the Meng starting next month (Locks Action)
-[X]... and ask to learn the Qiao of the Meng starting next month (Locks Action)
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Maybe. Right now our exaltation is in power saving mode and only slowly waking up. In creation exalted invented new charms all the time based on need, but we are likely going to not get ours out of power saving mode first.
I can see that perspective, and even agree with it to an extent. My specific issue is the way we're using it to get around trauma rather than the need to sleep for the sake of self improvement.
I get that, just saying that I would not present this as 'Molly screwed up and counted on magic too much again', it is not going to be straight character regression, though of course other characters IC might point stuff like that out
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay, just to articulate to you part of what I'm thinking with voting for this: I do not want to get Meng because it "replaces sleep," because it doesn't do that: Meng is way better than sleep.
WoD sleep by default only restores one point of willpower per full night of sleep. That means we can only sustainably spend one point of willpower a day without eventually running out, taking multiple days off from spending any willpower at all to recover, or getting some other method of restoring willpower. And every willpower restore method except for Meng is generally clunky and only restores a single point at a time.
We are going to want to be able to spend a lot more than one willpower a day without multi-day recovery breaks. There's just so many things we can use it for! We can spend willpower for extra successes per roll, which is great for anything really important, we spend two points of willpower every time we activate Shintai, Qiao of the Devil uses a lot of it for awesome effects once we eventually get it up and running, and Sorcery Paths spend it like crazy once we learn those.
Compared to all those expenses, a measly one willpower a day from getting a good night's sleep just doesn't cut it, so before we can really invest in and really effectively use any of the powerful effects that cost willpower, we really need Qiao of the Meng. We'd still want it really badly even if the nightmares weren't a thing for exactly that reason.
So, yeah, that's why I'm voting to learn Qiao of the Meng. The nightmares are just a good excuse for me.
We are just going to spend 5 do to get rid of the flaw. Not that it is at all an issue. The chance of failing the roll is so minute it is hardly worth mentioning ever.