Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy

Dragonofelder · Jan 2, 2023

ELF WITH A GUN ELF WITH A GUN ELF WITH A... oh it's not likely to happen. Damn.

Might try and use the concept at some point though... maybe an omake about an alternative elven mercenary?

Will vote in a bit

Zeitgeist Blue · Jan 2, 2023

Andmeuths said:
Commander of the Ind Campaigns means she's high ranking General or at least a Staff Officer, able to command entire Campaigns, and served on the Everqueen own Command Staff. It's possible that she may still have allies and friends among the Everqueen's own court, but the Phoenix King's laws had to be respected. You combine it with Averlon Ancestry, and it won't surprise me that there's a possibility Fanriel was a Handmaiden at one time.

I actually like this image. No idea if it'll be implemented like it is but it would mean more of Fanriel's defining traits would be from her accomplishments, one of which was being a commander for a very symbolic and high-status campaign. Commander of the Ind Campaigns means she's a leader of soldiers. It means she can win battles through any combination of mind, magic, and sword.

Anyway, the martial experience is a very straightforward and direct boon considering the quest is to be a mercenary company leader. And it'll still be useful even if we start out as a one-Elf wrecking crew since our profession would be based on war and all that entails (reconnaisance, strategy, logistics, etc.), instead of just melees and personal duels with less focus on the wider context of a campaign.

aeiou! · Jan 2, 2023

[X] [ARTEFACT] Fireclaw of Vaul

[X] [BLOOD] Yes

[X] [TRAITS] Chracian Blood
[X] [TRAITS] Sapherian Tutelage
[X] [TRAITS] Survivor of the Battle of the Holy Flame
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Dreams
[X] [TRAITS] Avelornian Ancestry
[X] [TRAITS] Colonist

Magitech magnum magitech magnum elf casts elf casts magitech magnum!

Andmeuths · Jan 2, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
And yeah, artifact crafting adds versatility, but I'm not sure it's much needed, or needed at all to be honest. The whole schtick of Loremasters of Hoeth is that they're jacks of all trades, and the choice explicitly came with bonuses to all stats (which were already high from the exiled Princess choice)...we're gonna be very versatile, with objectively fairly high ratings in every stat and access to every Wind of magic. Like, we are already exceedingly versatile.

As for Survivor of the Battle of the Holy Flame, I'm skeptical, but you can try. I never voted for it, so I can't withdraw a vote and help directly. It's a really solid fit thematically, too, which makes arguing against it a lot harder.

My counter would be that it allows Fanriel to alter her loadout further - a Ghyran artifact even at low tier can definitely open up her healing options for example, even a modest improvement could prove the difference between victory or defeat. And if she's actually leading or building a company rather than staying a one-woman mercenary, artifact creation likely opens the doors to building up the quality of her company in ways probably not as readily available on the market.

What Student of the Anvil likely will displace is Charcian blood if the votes shift enough, so the question would be whether the bonuses of Charcian blood can be made up by being able to craft things like Ghur, Ghyran or Hysh artefacts right from the start, and with investment, even exceed it? Because it's possible Chracian blood opens up it's own unique prowess development tree that might be even more action efficient for building prowess than Artifact Creation.

Dragonofelder said:
ELF WITH A GUN ELF WITH A GUN ELF WITH A... oh it's not likely to happen. Damn.

If anything, Student of the Anvil will be more thematic with the idea, even if it is impossible for Fanriel to reproduce such a weapon.

Zeitgeist Blue said:
I actually like this image. No idea if it'll be implemented like it is but it would mean more of Fanriel's defining traits would be from her accomplishments, one of which was being a commander for a very symbolic and high-status campaign. Commander of the Ind Campaigns means she's a leader of soldiers. It means she can win battles through any combination of mind, magic, and sword.

True, but like the Anvil, the question is, is it worth likely displacing Chracian blood? Because that's what it boils down to if the votes top out at around 60-70 (this quest topped out at 66 votes so far). Beyond that point, things can change quite drastically.

Chipsy_21 · Jan 2, 2023

Im really hoping anvil and avelorn swing it, i don't really have something against chrace but i really like the "universally skilled" angle.
I also honestly just enjoy the aesthetic of regular person+big sword more than huge person+big sword.

Dragonofelder · Jan 2, 2023

[X] [ARTEFACT] Fireclaw of Vaul
GUN

[X] [BLOOD] Yes
Might as well go with the (blood) flow

[X] [TRAITS] Colonist
We'll probably we working with humans a lot

[X] [TRAITS] Knight of Tor Gaval
Bird

[X] [TRAITS] Sapherian Tutelage
Wait, is Teclis our senpai or are we his?

[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Anvil
Possible MORE GUN. Maybe even a rifle?

[X] [TRAITS] Survivor of the Battle of the Holy Flame:
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Dreams
Honestly just feck chaos

Zeitgeist Blue · Jan 2, 2023

Andmeuths said:
True, but like the Anvil, the question is, is it worth likely displacing Chracian blood? Because that's what it boils down to if the votes top out at around 60-70 (this quest topped out at 66 votes so far). Beyond that point, things can change quite drastically.

It's looking like a narrow margin however it swings, with the tally now at 22-17 Charcian Blood and Commander of the Ind Campaigns. Personally, I'm a fan of being a leader of men and Elves. With a high diplomacy stat, no diplomacy penalty to humans, and hopefully high martial stat that's definitely what we're gonna get. Then you add in high magic too it would seem like our greatest value to any army that hires our services come not from our sword arm (but that's still reasonable good for elves, which means amazing for humans, but also already actually Elvenly amazing against Chaos from our character creation choices) but from our mind and experiences.

And you know, playing a more mentally-inclined character (but in a very impressive, awe-inspiring way) sounds like a good bit of fun. Also, we'll still be Elvrnly quite skilled with the sword being a Princely Loremaster (and also Elvenly amazing at personally fighting Chaos being a Princely Yvressian Loremaster who survived the Battle of the Holy Flame).

Derek58 · Jan 2, 2023

Dragonofelder said:
Wait, is Teclis our senpai or are we his?

We'd be his senpai

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jan 2, 2023

Andmeuths said:
My counter would be that it allows Fanriel to alter her loadout further - a Ghyran artifact even at low tier can definitely open up her healing options for example, even a modest improvement could prove the difference between victory or defeat. And if she's actually leading or building a company rather than staying a one-woman mercenary, artifact creation likely opens the doors to building up the quality of her company in ways probably not as readily available on the market.

I mean, as a Loremaster, she already has access to Ghyran healing magic. It being able to be put in artifact form isn't nothing, but it's not 'now I have healing when I didn't before'. I'm honestly not even convinced it opens up the options that much, given that we're gonna be picking her magic and healing is very much on the table for that.

It does potentially open up the ability to grant artifacts to her men, it's true, but is she really much better off doing that than spending the same number of actions improving them in some other way?

Andmeuths said:
What Student of the Anvil likely will displace is Charcian blood if the votes shift enough, so the question would be whether the bonuses of Charcian blood can be made up by being able to craft things like Ghur, Ghyran or Hysh artefacts right from the start, and with investment, even exceed it? Because it's possible Chracian blood opens up it's own unique prowess development tree that might be even more action efficient for building prowess than Artifact Creation.

I'm not sure that the utility of being able to make low tier artifacts when we already have spells that do the same thing is that high compared to just straight up being more skilled at our primary job. Particularly since we still have a round of 'resource allocation' to go. I'd be somewhat surprised if we don't get the option for troops with minor artifacts in the next stage, they're definitely getting the options for flying mounts after all...being able to make such things ourself would let us pick other choices, certainly, but I think minor artifacts will still be available with some expense and difficulty even if we can't make them ourselves.

Derek58 said:
We'd be his senpai

Also his cousin, I believe. His older attractive, female, cousin...this just went to a weird place.

Andmeuths · Jan 2, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Also his cousin, I believe. His older attractive, female, cousin...this just went to a weird place.

I mean in canon, Tyrion slept with his cousin, Liselle Emeraldsea from his maternal side of the family when he was younger. Unlikely we are related directly to the Emeraldsea though, that's an Eatine/Lothern clan, and the Twins are heirs to Anaerion by the male line.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
It does potentially open up the ability to grant artifacts to her men, it's true, but is she really much better off doing that than spending the same number of actions improving them in some other way?

If Master Lecturer was in contention (it's only at 3 votes, RIP), I would be far more confident of improving her men via training because she would have an actual talent at teaching. We don't have that trait, and we might end up being a one-woman company just like Asarnill I suspect. Which Chracian most definitely encourages.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jan 2, 2023

Andmeuths said:
I mean in canon, Tyrion slept with his cousin, Liselle Emeraldsea from his maternal side of the family when he was younger. Unlikely we are related closely to the Emeraldsea though, that's an Eatine/Lothern clan, and the Twins are heirs to Anaerion by the male line.

That does not make it less weird , I assure you, though it is good information to have that I didn't know previously.

Andmeuths said:
If Master Lecturer was in contention (it's only at 3 votes, RIP), I would be far more confident of improving her men via training because she would have an actual talent at teaching. We don't have that trait, and we might end up being a one-woman company just like Asarnill I suspect. Which Chracian most definitely encourages.

Master Lecturer specifically improves the ability to train her people rather than grants it, which means she could still train them even without it, though obviously not as well (indeed, the whole 'met Teclis' thing was her acting as a tutor...his knowledge outstripped hers, but that's because of who he is not her being bad at it necessarily). Higher Prowess is probably useful in training up, well, Prowess so Chracian Blood probably even helps a little bit here.

And the sentiments expressed in the thread so far are mostly either a solo act or a small, elite, unit...we'll see what the actual options are in that regard next vote. I personally lean 'small elite unit' for mental health reasons (having actual comrades rather than complete isolation), but could maybe be persuaded otherwise.

Blackout · Jan 2, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I don't disagree that magic items are cool and gonna be useful, but AP hell is a real thing and we already likely have a lot of magical projects to invest time and effort into. Diplomacy is something we'll be forced to roll, probably regularly, while making magic items is something that we might get to do if we have the time.

And I think I've now talked myself into going for Avelornian Ancestry instead of Student of the Anvil. It was thinking about AP hell that did it.

SoulCaptain said:
I actually hadn't considered the expert diplomat point and I haven't really been been thinking about the AP hell given that I'm not sure what Blackout envisages for us. However, no matter how much free time we have on our hands we could either be investing it all in more magic or split between magic and magic items.

There will obviously be some degree of AP crunch. Like I've said this is mercenary mage quest, not elf magic research quest, you'll only have so much time for other pursuits.

Andmeuths said:
What Student of the Anvil likely will displace is Charcian blood if the votes shift enough, so the question would be whether the bonuses of Charcian blood can be made up by being able to craft things like Ghur, Ghyran or Hysh artefacts right from the start, and with investment, even exceed it? Because it's possible Chracian blood opens up it's own unique prowess development tree that might be even more action efficient for building prowess than Artifact Creation.

You could match the Prowess boost from Chracian Blood with enough time and resources invested into Student of the Anvil, but in that time you could have invested into other things, including raising Prowess even higher. If you want to raise a stat, it's usually more efficient to invest in that stat directly than investing into another stat that lets you invest into raising that stat.

(Also, Chracian Blood is not just Prowess, it's intimidation as well.)

But in general don't expect raising stats to be quick or easy. You're cut off from Ulthuan, and the problem with being a Loremaster is that you've already got all of the lowhanging fruits.

Derek58 said:
We'd be his senpai

You might find that Teclis disagrees with that statement.

Andmeuths said:
Averlornian Ancestry and Blood of Anaerion very likely means that we are of very very high birth in the ranks of the nobility. Because we probably have even more recent Everqueen Ancestry than the First Ever Queen and it won't surprise me if we are a descendant of one of the recent Phoenix Kings within the last thousand years. Exile is a long way to fall from that height.

Andmeuths said:
I mean in canon, Tyrion slept with his cousin, Liselle Emeraldsea from his maternal side of the family when he was younger. Unlikely we are related closely to the Emeraldsea though, that's an Eatine/Lothern clan, and the Twins are heirs to Anaerion by the male line.

If you take Avelornian Ancestry but no Blood of Aenarion, then the Everqueen connection is just rumours.

If you take Avelornian with Blood of Aenarion, you're a descendant of one of the Everqueens through a consort (The Phoenix King and Everqueen are free to have consorts after fulfilling their duties, but only a child born from both can inherit as the Everchild).

If you take Blood but not Avelornian, you're a descendant of the male line through Morelion.

Constenanto · Jan 2, 2023

Right now, I'm going Avelornian Ancestry, but I'm partial to Student of the Anvil and Commander of the Ind Campaigns...

Is there a way to check how many votes there are for each option that isn't going through each page and counting each vote...?

Andmeuths · Jan 2, 2023

Constenanto said:
Is there a way to check how many votes there are for each option that isn't going through each page and counting each vote...?

Under the thread tools tab, check for the Vote Tally.

It will show you how many votes are currently up for each option, and Blackout allows you to vote for as many traits as you wish, so don't feel constraint by keeping to 3-6 options if there's others you wish to see promoted.

Abhorsen · Jan 2, 2023

[X] [ARTEFACT] Lightfang

Catpetter1981 · Jan 2, 2023

L

Blackout said:
If you take Avelornian Ancestry but no Blood of Aenarion, then the Everqueen connection is just rumours.

If you take Avelornian with Blood of Aenarion, you're a descendant of one of the Everqueens through a consort (The Phoenix King and Everqueen are free to have consorts after fulfilling their duties, but only a child born from both can inherit as the Everchild).

If you take Blood but not Avelornian, you're a descendant of the male line through Morelion.

Was there any combination of options we could have taken that would have made us a distant relative of Malekith?

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jan 2, 2023

Constenanto said:
Right now, I'm going Avelornian Ancestry, but I'm partial to Student of the Anvil and Commander of the Ind Campaigns...

As of the moment, the most likely Trait to be replaced is not Avelornian Ancestry but Chracian Blood, which could get replaced by either of the others you list. Personally, I'd prefer for it to stick around, but as things stand we can have one of Student of the Anvil and Commander of the Ind Campaigns as well as Avelornian Ancestry if you're willing to sacrifice Chracian Blood.

Blackout · Jan 2, 2023

Catpetter1981 said:
Was there any combination of options we could have taken that would have made us a distant relative of Malekith?

...Blood of Aenarion?

Malekith is Aenarion's second son, and if you take Blood of Aenarion you're a descendant of either his firstborn son Morelion or his daughter Yvraine, making you Malekith's distant grandniece.

Constenanto · Jan 2, 2023

Andmeuths said:
snip

Thanks for the info. If Student of the Anvil is to be picked, it'd have to push Chracian Blood out... I'd rather take Chracian Blood, too. I don't think I'll change my vote, but I wouldn't mind it if it ended up winning. I like the thematic themes behind Commander of the Ind Campaigns, and I think more martial is always a positive, even if we do end up going solo/small group of elites, which I do prefer as opposed to a large group of competent mercenaries.

I do think prowess would be better for the kind of mercenary we're making, though, b~~ut I still think I'll vote for it,even if its not optimised at all~~ actually, I like Chracian Blood too much to drop it. Wouldn't mind if Student of the Anvil or Commander of the Ind Campaigns won though.

(Quick question - martial is one's ability to lead troops in combat, but prowess is how good you are at actually fighting?)

Also, looks like we're most likely going Blood of Aenarion, since the current tally is 45 yes and only 5 no.

T_of_A · Jan 2, 2023

[X] [ARTEFACT] Lightfang

[X] [TRAITS] Avelornian Ancestry
[X] [TRAITS] Master Lecturer of the White Tower
[X] [TRAITS] Sapherian Tutelage
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Dreams
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Shadow
[X] [TRAITS] Warrior of the Wailing Fen
[X] [BLOOD] Yes

DeadmanwalkingXI · Jan 2, 2023

Constenanto said:
Thanks for the info. If Student of the Anvil is to be picked, it'd have to push Chracian Blood out... I'd rather take Chracian Blood, too. I don't think I'll change my vote, but I wouldn't mind it if it ended up winning. I like the thematic themes behind Commander of the Ind Campaigns, and I think more martial is always a positive, even if we do end up going solo/small group of elites, which I do prefer as opposed to a large group of competent mercenaries. I do think prowess would be better for the kind of mercenary we're making, though, but I still think I'll vote for it,even if its not optimised at all.

I'm sorely tempted by Commander of the Ind Campaigns myself, but Chracian Blood seems more fun as well as probably being a better choice mechanically.

Constenanto said:
(Quick question - martial is one's ability to lead troops in combat, but prowess is how good you are at actually fighting?)

That's what the description says here:

Blackout said:
Prowess: This is how good you are at killing people with your own two hands. You might roll this to stab an Orc in the face.
Martial: This is how good you are at leading other people to kill people for you. You might roll this to rally your men in a pitched battle, or devise an ingenious tactic that will bring you victory.

So yeah, basically.

Constenanto said:
Also, looks like we're definitely going Blood of Aenarion, since the current tally is 45 yes and only 5 no.

Yeah, that definitely seems to be a thing that is happening.

Imrix · Jan 2, 2023

Blackout said:
You are a Loremaster.

Of Hoeth.

The God of Knowledge.

Also the "Student of X" options are literally each themed after one of the High Elf gods.

Also worth noting like

The elves are a pantheistic society. Historically speaking, the whole idea of 'patron gods' is kind of dubious; a city might have a patron god? But the people in it are going to invoke whatever gods are relevant to what they're currently doing, because gods are powerful forces that it would be foolish to spurn.

We're going to be heavily associating with the elven gods whatever we do. We're going to invoke Khaine on the eve of battle and Hoeth in our studies and Lileath when we seek/show forgiveness and Asuryan when giving commands off the battlefield and so on and so forth. That's... just what pantheistic society is like.

Fenrir44 · Jan 2, 2023

[X] [ARTEFACT] Lightfang
[X] [BLOOD] Yes
[X] [TRAITS] Survivor of the Battle of the Holy Flame:
[X] [TRAITS] Sapherian Tutelage
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Spear
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Anvil
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Dreams
[X] [TRAITS] Colonist

Kingofbooks · Jan 2, 2023

[X] [ARTEFACT] Lightfang
[X] [BLOOD] Yes
[X] [TRAITS] Survivor of the Battle of the Holy Flame:
[X] [TRAITS] Sapherian Tutelage
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Dreams
[X] [TRAITS] Colonist
[X] [TRAITS] Avelornian Ancestry
[X] [TRAITS] Chracian Blood
[X] [TRAITS] Student of the Anvil

Constenanto · Jan 2, 2023

After thinking about it, yeah I think I'd rather want Chracian Blood to win instead of Student of rhe Anvil, and if not Chracian Blood then Commander of the Ind Campaigns. As a mercenary, you can never have too much prowess or martial in my opinion, and since it seems like we're going solo/small, I believe the choice of more prowess is even better.

Whereas we have Word of God that the stuff we make is equal to mid-tier human-made magical items, which means that they shouldn't be impossibly hard to obtain like some people think they'll be. Along with this, there's also AP hell, and like Blackout said, we'll only have so much time for other pursuits.

And, personally, I just find Chracian Blood more fun.

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