“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest
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questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
One silver lining to this. If things do go wrong somehow.
We could have a scenario where we have to "harm" someone for "their own good". Whether that is restraining Mami, Sayaka or using our powers to "force them to stop".
We could have a chance to see how forgiving Big Bird is in his requirements. And hell, we might get a chance of doing Punishing Bird's PUNISHMENT too if one of the girls attacks us and we subdue them in return.
It's a very tiny silver lining though. So tiny you would have to get a microscope to see it.
However, we must approach it. Nothing There finished murdering how many Magical Girls it needs for it to have "the perfect shell". This might be our last chance to approach this in a calm manner since we are going to be having a meeting with one of the deadliest abnormalities in L Corp.
Without the Qlipoth field.
At the very least, we should tell the girls about soul gems. I can agree with removing the witches from the discussion, but soul gems are SUPREMELY important in a fight, and we cannot let the girls be killed because they played dangerously with their soul gems.
We could have a scenario where we have to "harm" someone for "their own good". Whether that is restraining Mami, Sayaka or using our powers to "force them to stop".
We could have a chance to see how forgiving Big Bird is in his requirements. And hell, we might get a chance of doing Punishing Bird's PUNISHMENT too if one of the girls attacks us and we subdue them in return.
It's a very tiny silver lining though. So tiny you would have to get a microscope to see it.
However, we must approach it. Nothing There finished murdering how many Magical Girls it needs for it to have "the perfect shell". This might be our last chance to approach this in a calm manner since we are going to be having a meeting with one of the deadliest abnormalities in L Corp.
Without the Qlipoth field.
At the very least, we should tell the girls about soul gems. I can agree with removing the witches from the discussion, but soul gems are SUPREMELY important in a fight, and we cannot let the girls be killed because they played dangerously with their soul gems.
Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
Isn't it comeuppance which doesn't fit in such a case?
But yeah, we can remove Witches from the discussion, but better make sure we don't have anyone Witch out in their vicinity before our next opportunity then
E: Perhaps if NT is coming for us to have an shell-off, we can try to delay the fight by saying our shell isn't complete yet?
(Read: Get more EGO and come back later)
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questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
The thing is, the more I think about it, the more the Witch bomb seems bad.
We are going to meet NT after this. And when facing it, with it's I dunno, 50 probably or more by now, Magical Girl Frankenstein of a shell, having the girls still worry about them being Witches is REALLY bad.
It's distracting, and it wouldn't help much. It's probably best to discuss it...at another time when everyone is a lot closer to each other. Maybe in another week or so.
Edit: I have removed the witch topic from my post. Plan Pre-Planned has been edited to match my new opinions.
We are going to meet NT after this. And when facing it, with it's I dunno, 50 probably or more by now, Magical Girl Frankenstein of a shell, having the girls still worry about them being Witches is REALLY bad.
It's distracting, and it wouldn't help much. It's probably best to discuss it...at another time when everyone is a lot closer to each other. Maybe in another week or so.
Edit: I have removed the witch topic from my post. Plan Pre-Planned has been edited to match my new opinions.
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Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
So you are saying the (combat) distraction really isn't worth the *chance* to partially mitigate this issue in advance?
It is indeed true that if they find out in a combat scenario we can ...just talk to them afterwards... (Since they won't be thinking about it much and more trying to not die then)
It is indeed true that if they find out in a combat scenario we can ...just talk to them afterwards... (Since they won't be thinking about it much and more trying to not die then)
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Here's the thing. It wouldn't help "mitigate" anything if we talk about it now. Especially since most of them would probably be shaken with the soul gem already. And given that there's a none-0 chance we have to fight with NT. We can discuss it afterward if the situation calls for it.
Another reason is, for them to come to know X even more. If they can see more of the fact that a "person" who lost their humanity and has a possibility of turning into a monster can still be good if we can let the knowledge that X is a good monster seep and germinate more in their minds, that even if you are "bad" that doesn't mean you are bad.
When the time comes, it will be easier to stop them from panicking.
The girls are still kids, the revelations of abnormalities and soul gems are already absurd in and of themselves. And if we wanted to drop the witch bomb, we should've pulled Yuma aside and given her a forewarning first so she can dive bombe Mami, but we didn't and now dropping it without any preparation is too dangerous.
Another reason is, for them to come to know X even more. If they can see more of the fact that a "person" who lost their humanity and has a possibility of turning into a monster can still be good if we can let the knowledge that X is a good monster seep and germinate more in their minds, that even if you are "bad" that doesn't mean you are bad.
When the time comes, it will be easier to stop them from panicking.
The girls are still kids, the revelations of abnormalities and soul gems are already absurd in and of themselves. And if we wanted to drop the witch bomb, we should've pulled Yuma aside and given her a forewarning first so she can dive bombe Mami, but we didn't and now dropping it without any preparation is too dangerous.
Most of my problems with telling the witch bombs had to do with doing it before this discussion, I personally think we should absolutely do it at the end of it. Because:
Nothing There is not just a walking Lichbomb, she is also prone to telling the witchbomb, not telling right now in controlled conditions is asking for her to tell it herself when we meet her and having to instantly go in damage control on our girls in the middle of the negotiation (because making it a fight is a BAD idea).
See my previous point, she is also perfectly able to tell them the withbomb, tanking all chances of a controlled warning about it.
*Sigh*
[X] Plan Pre-Planned with Witches! And Coffee!
-[X] Abnormalities
-[X] You are an Abnormality
-[X] Your EGO Gifts (Yuma's beak, and your employee card)
-[X] The Book of Abnormality and how you will entrust it to Madoka
-[X] Nothing There
-[X] Truth about Soul Gems and how you might be able to eliminate grief-build-up
-[X] Tell the girls about the origin of witches, make sure to explain that you think it might be reversible and that you at least can make sure they won't become witches.
Edit:
Expecting us to negotiate with NT without the witchbomb becoming a topic of conversation is a fool errand, our best bet is a thorough discussion with her, and it WILL include the fact she is making sure the gems she has don't become witches.
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Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
In that case, perhaps follow Kalibrius' plan and add a note about letting her hair down? That Ms Reliable Senior X also has her own things to deal with?
Not decided yet on the Witch topic, I'll either remake my plan or vote for something else once more discussion drops in
(I believe what was meant is that even a controlled warning isn't going to leave them particularly stable for whatever comes next, and it dropping in combat at least gives them a way to shove it outside their minds until X can talk to them.
Although, if NT drops it during a non-combat scenario I'm not sure what would happen?)
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Oh right, NT does know the truth about witches as well. that makes everything infinitely more awkward, since that makes it a forced topic unless we want to attempt to keep NT from talking somehow which... don't think we have the means to do so.
[X] Plan Pre-Planned with Witches! And Coffee!
[X] Plan Pre-Planned with Witches! And Coffee!
Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
If the MGs mention they have issues with NT getting their Soul Gems, this is probably going to come out... (Not sure what the MGs reaction would be in this case though, so I'm not sure of how to vote yet)
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questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Ah fuck, that thing knows too. Welp nvm. Here goes nothing. Nothing There. Hey at least if something goes wrong, we can just kill them and obtain Big Bird's E.G.O.
Totally the best trade deal in the history of trade deals. Possibly EVER!
[X] Plan Pre-Planned with Witches! And Coffee!
Totally the best trade deal in the history of trade deals. Possibly EVER!
[X] Plan Pre-Planned with Witches! And Coffee!
I am wondering if Homura will time stop us if she figures out that we are about to spill the lichbomb/witchbomb. Though I am curious where the apparent shift in opinion on handing out witchbomb came from, was it NT coming in? It's hard for me to say if the group setting will help or hurt, I'm going to think on it some more.
Kamihama is a separate city from Mitakihara, so it is currently heading away I think? It looks like Magia Record spinoff girls may start getting involved. Though I guess we may want to meet with our ever so helpful employee anyway, because it can only improve as more bodies get added.
Especially since, as I told, we DON'T want a fight, our best bet is talking with her, even if you think she is a monster (you monster), she is too powerful for fighting to be a good idea.
Edit:
For me in particular, it wasn't a change in opinion, my main reason for not telling earlier was that I wanted to do it now, when everyone is there and without having Mami in a panic before we explain to the others.
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Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
Oops
Let me rethink my arguments for a bit
Getting timestop'd for the Lich Bomb is unlikely, and even if Homura wants to get us to stop talking for the Witch Bomb after the Timestop she can't without drastic measures that will leave her even more isolated (from Madoka too), soooooo
E: On a lighter note, could someone help me make a Draugr training meme starring X (socialling) and NT (collecting MGs)?
Let me rethink my arguments for a bit
Getting timestop'd for the Lich Bomb is unlikely, and even if Homura wants to get us to stop talking for the Witch Bomb after the Timestop she can't without drastic measures that will leave her even more isolated (from Madoka too), soooooo
E: On a lighter note, could someone help me make a Draugr training meme starring X (socialling) and NT (collecting MGs)?
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- Location
- America
Also, in a previous instance of Mami being witch bombed and living, she had been essentially told "you can't break down right now, you have people to save"
So, Nothing There interrupt might save Mami from a immediate breakdown, similarly, the fact that she now has a little sister to take care of may make "murder-suicide" a less tenable option as she is responsible for a life that is not 'damned' yet, thus she still has a job to do beyond being a magical girl.
So, Nothing There interrupt might save Mami from a immediate breakdown, similarly, the fact that she now has a little sister to take care of may make "murder-suicide" a less tenable option as she is responsible for a life that is not 'damned' yet, thus she still has a job to do beyond being a magical girl.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
I still think we should talk about Soul Gems with Sayaka and Mami in turn, not at the same time. Perhaps right after this conversation. I'm sure we can explain things to them without pushing the worst of their buttons, but we'll have to be really careful about that. The lack of a demo where the Magical Girl simply passes out after moving away from her Gem should help. Perhaps if we focus more on what this means for them in terms of combat, we will soften the worst of the existential crisis, but I wouldn't count on it too much.
Besides, even if we just say it's deadly to let the abno damage their Soul Gems, that's enough. We don't have to explain things right away to warn them. Abnormalities are weird, things about them don't have to make sense.
In fact, there will be no negotiations between NT and the rest of the girls. Either we will talk and then X will do it alone, because there is no chance in hell that she will let her children approach such a dangerous ALEPH, or it will be a fight, and then we will abuse Homura's time stop, there will be no talk
Besides, even if we just say it's deadly to let the abno damage their Soul Gems, that's enough. We don't have to explain things right away to warn them. Abnormalities are weird, things about them don't have to make sense.
In fact, there will be no negotiations between NT and the rest of the girls. Either we will talk and then X will do it alone, because there is no chance in hell that she will let her children approach such a dangerous ALEPH, or it will be a fight, and then we will abuse Homura's time stop, there will be no talk
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questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
If you think Big Bird's fight was bad. Lmao.
Nothing There can literally point at X and delete her head clean off her shoulders with a supersonic projectile.
A single flick from Nothing There in her current unrestrained by Qlipoth state will turn our head into fine red mist.
We are talking about an abnormality that can overpower the Red Mist when it's in a restrained state. If we fight it now when it's free in the world, we are dead.
Maybe if all our current E.G.O miraculously get synchronized- no, integrated status, we might have a chance at beating it in combat then.
Nothing There can literally point at X and delete her head clean off her shoulders with a supersonic projectile.
A single flick from Nothing There in her current unrestrained by Qlipoth state will turn our head into fine red mist.
We are talking about an abnormality that can overpower the Red Mist when it's in a restrained state. If we fight it now when it's free in the world, we are dead.
Maybe if all our current E.G.O miraculously get synchronized- no, integrated status, we might have a chance at beating it in combat then.
That's quite optimistic, who said we will be the one who choose when she approaches us? Because I don't think we will be able to.
As for fighting with Timestop: Big Bird already strained us quite a lot, NT is far, far more tanky, and regenerate, and is very, very fast, I don't predict it'll be that easy.
Edit:
And even if we manage to choose to approach her alone, we can't know it will be the case right now, we have to hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and said preparation includes the withcbomb.
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Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
Changing things around: Suppose we aren't meeting NT today. Then, when and where, with what prepwork will we be dropping the Witch Bomb?
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Time stop is the only way to beat it. It's FAR MORE vulnerable when it's in a shell state. We can probably kill it if we skewer the damn thing with 100 swords of despair in its first phase.
Hell, if we can kill it before it can take on the cocoon, we will win immediately. Because we aren't gonna beat it in the Combat Mode (Phase 3, aka Mimicry). There's no way in hell are we gonna DPS it down in its second phase either.
Hell, if we can kill it before it can take on the cocoon, we will win immediately. Because we aren't gonna beat it in the Combat Mode (Phase 3, aka Mimicry). There's no way in hell are we gonna DPS it down in its second phase either.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
The moment NT is there, X's only reaction will be: everyone moves at least half a kilometre away, no objections. So I'd say it's actually a pretty reasonable guess.
Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
So we target the Soul Gems, and give it the Big Bird (Walpurgisnacht) treatment? (Otherwise, regen and all...)
New Abilities though, Tripwires are not impossible to have around
E: Uh, when NT arrives it's probably going to be too late to do anything - MGs can't move that fast ven if they talk for a while
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- Location
- Somewhere
Just to remind people. Kamihama is where currently:
The Adult Who Tells Lies resides.
So let us not forget that TWO Alephs are about to meet up soon-ish.
---
But in regards about "The Truth of Soul Gems".
This could just be an AU thing for this story (and I'd approve if it is), but Lobotomy - which modifies the "self":
Brings the tree of their "self" out of their Bodies and not their Soul Gems.
So at least in this story X's skepticism in regards to Soul Gems actually being the Person's Soul has at least some valid justification.
So putting Soul Gems as deeply related and the now most vital organ of a Magical Girl, but not actually the Magical Girl herself may be a valid option with this supporting evidence.
---
And at least for the Witch reveal: X can just be very gentle with the wording.
Especially with the doubt cast on how much the Soul Gem actually makes up the MG in this story.
Kyubey is currently occupied and so can't twist the knife. So we should use this opportunity to inform how the kids think about the topic.
Even if only in a "This could happen and is not the only or most natural way for this to go" way.
Doesn't have to be 100% true, just needs to be digestible enough that the kids don't immediately break down.
And give them resistance for when Kyubey tries to tell them the "You are made to turn into monsters and fuel the universe" spiel.
Let's not forget, in this story Kyubey:
Doesn't actually know for certain.
And thus having X ease the kids that Witchdom is just a disease that X may very well be able to cure even soon-ish should help a lot with dealing with it.
Also in canon Kyoko is one of those who deal with the Witchbomb terribly (AFAIR from PMAS discussions on the topic).
So whatever let her deal with it well here, may very well help convince Mami that not all is lost.
If it was good enough to give Kyoko peace, it should well allow her - in turn - to help ease Mami.
And as these last two sentences read a bit oddly, but I am not made of Time TLDR:
Kyoko usually deals badly with the Witchbomb, now she doesn't.
She will be here for that if the reveal happens and so can Friendship-speech at Mami to help us.
We have X, Yuma and a weirdly well-adjusted Kyoko here to give emotional aid.
And the Homura Timestop + Aleph Lobotomy Panic buttons.
As long as Homura is away enough from Mami to activate the shield before getting tagged by a Ribbon even many of the worse case scenarios should be handleable.
But I am also one who would never be comfortable with the Witch Reveal, so I do not think I have much more to add here.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Hm. Give them the Binah and Hokma speeches. Since the nature of Witches involves the Past and the Future.
As for the combat thing, I was joking. We aren't gonna be able to kill it with just 100 swords of despairs, Since it took us around 50 or so to kill BIg Bird, killing NT will need at least 300
Just for the sake of theoritical combat, Nothing there is weakest to Pale damage in all 3 phases, tied resistant to White and Black damage in all 3 phases, and heavily resistant to red in phase 1 and outright immune to red in phases 2 onwards.
Red tending to be physical damage... yeah...
Red tending to be physical damage... yeah...