Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

This simply means that we need defeat Nemesis first and only then obliterate Mab.

Dresden warned Bill do not make deals wit Fae for a reason, I think. Every plan begining with "Let's take a deal with Fae" is a bad plan. Of cause, sometimes you ought to make bad desicions, but I can not see any reason to make a deal in this case.

And I do not think that we have a deficit of foes to level up any time soon.
1)Nemesis is allegedly an archangel-tier power by Word of Jim.
It is limited by the fact that its working within the Gates, but its Serious Business.
And its only one of a LOT of Outsiders; they have reserves.


2)Thats not actually true.Lots of people make deals with Fae, successfully.

The Unseelie Accords is a treaty with the Fae; every signatory is in effect in a deal with the Fae.
Marcone did with Mab in order to screw Nicodemus.
The White Council did with Winter to secure safe passage in the Never Never.

Dresden himself has done it multiple times with some of the Fae's most powerful figures and some of its weakest.

He has done deals with cobbs and brownies as well as Queens; his house is cleaned by brownies, Toot-Toot and the Za Guard protect his home and local area, and he sold access to the Carpenter household to a family of cobbs, who were looking for a place where there were lots of shoes to repair.

Most recently, Molly's rescue required that Dresden make a deal with both the Winter and Summer Ladies.

What you dont do?
Is make a deal without clearly defining the terms, or you are at risk of being screwed if the other side chooses to and is ill disposed to you. And you only make a deal on credit, or a blank check, if you're desperate.


3)There are personal enemies out to screw you personally? And enemies out to destroy your entire area code.
Ignoring the metaplot doesnt make it go away, or mean it will ignore you. After all, our very first fight after getting home was with Reds and Outsiders.
 
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Nemesis is not even a conventionally powerful foe you can beat in combat.

It's a spread-out consciousness infecting hundreds or thousands of people.

It might have some kind of physical body you can beat up and permakill on the wrong side of the Outer Gates, but we ain't going there anytime soon.
Even if our Exorcism spell works perfectly it is extremly unlikely we could banish all instances of Nemesis, simply due to the difficulty and effort of finding and banishing each one.

Nemesis is honestly a problem that Mages are much better suited to dealing with than any Exalted below Essence 7-8.
Wizards could in theory combine enough Mind/Spirit/Corrospondence skills to find and banish all instances of Nemesis in multiple bodies at once, if they knew what they were dealing with and had the Starborn-bonus to actually affecting the thing.
I guess with a lot of research and someone like Dresden being the focus of a ritual by the whole Council some spectacular options might be possible.

For us it's more or less impossible unless we invent and use a Charm like the Yozi-Fighting one from a few pages ago, which is both made for Solars and too powerful to exist in ExWod.
 
You don't defeat Nemesis by beating it in any sort of combat. You defeat Nemesis by denying it access to reality. Tear it out root and branch, then bar the Gates in such a way that it can never again intrude into our universe.

That's a tall order, but not impossible. Eventually.
 
^^^
And this is after doing a lot of research
It might well be the Outer Gates exist for a reason and that trying to seal them breaks stuff.
Badly.
 
With a large enough group of Exalted we could propably go outside the Gates, beat the Outsiders on their homeground and start Wyldshaping the Outside to restore reality to its former greatness.

But that's not really in the likely scope of the quest, even if it goes as long as Viserys' has.
 
Wizards could in theory combine enough Mind/Spirit/Corrospondence skills to find and banish all instances of Nemesis in multiple bodies at once,
Apparently it's resistant to supernatural detection, to the degree that Uriel can't find it that way himself by WoJ.

The first time we run into a victim I want to see what happens if we ask the crown for the identities of everyone else like them in the mortal world.
 
For us it's more or less impossible unless we invent and u
Depending on the rules? We could potentially cook up an ancient sorcery spell/working to do the same thing.
It would just be fucking Big, and require a lot of setup and prerequisites. Plus a lot of diplomacy to convince a lot of people its not aimed at them so they dont interfere.

Exalted 3E would handle it with a sorcerous working. Probably Solar-tier.
That would be endgame stuff though.
 
I hope that concepts and ideas from our universe seep out through the Gates to infect the Outsiders living there.

I want Outsiders to crave a good cheeseburger and cold beer on a hot day without knowing what a cheeseburger is or even having an idea of temperature. Or to want to relax with a good book, despite not having the biological and psychological mechanisms to actually "relax", let alone read.

If they can infect our universe with their shit, then they should get a dose of their own medicine.
 
Depending on the rules? We could potentially cook up an ancient sorcery spell/working to do the same thing.
It would just be fucking Big, and require a lot of setup and prerequisites. Plus a lot of diplomacy to convince a lot of people its not aimed at them so they dont interfere.

Exalted 3E would handle it with a sorcerous working. Probably Solar-tier.
That would be endgame stuff though.
ExWoD only supports lower circle Sorcery, here from the FAQ:
That's the general guideline to follow; ancient sorcery should be about as potent as a Terrestrial Circle spell or a powerful (but not legendary) werewolf ritual
Trying to cast something world-spanning to fuck over Nemesis is propably not included, at least not unless we go beyond the limits of the ExWoD book, which I wouldn't rule out for the Dresdenverse, but it's not exactly close by either.
 
Look, the long and the short of it is that despite some posters' opinions Winter is the faction doing the most to keep reality intact.

We are inevitably going to end up dealing with and working with them at one point or another simply because reality happens to be where we keep our stuff and we're rather attached to it. Which means we're not going to be able to avoid Mab.

And let's be clear - killing Mab is a terrible idea. It's not quite 'Awaken the Kukla' but it's pretty close.
 
You don't defeat Nemesis by beating it in any sort of combat. You defeat Nemesis by denying it access to reality. Tear it out root and branch, then bar the Gates in such a way that it can never again intrude into our universe.

That's a tall order, but not impossible. Eventually.
So we need to find someone with Nemesis and ask "Who shares this infection?", then hand Mab the list. A whole lot of people die, but at least a solid chunk of them will be the infected and not just collateral damage.
 
OK, looks like we are going to agree to call Mab.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 18, 2022 at 10:15 AM, finished with 212 posts and 36 votes.

  • [X] Yes, you will call on Mab and listen to what she has to say
    [X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."
    [X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."
    -[X]After Mab leaves? Crown of Eyes to ask what Mab knows about our exaltation. Arcane focus: footprints in ectoplasm, precise location(s) where she was standing.
    [X] Yes, you will call on Mab and listen to what she has to say
    -[X]After Mab leaves? Crown of Eyes to ask what Mab knows about our exaltation. Arcane focus: footprints in ectoplasm, precise location(s) where she was standing.
    [X] Yes, you will call on Mab and listen to what she has to say
    -[X] [Stunt] You tilt your head slightly, not quite in agreement but certainly not in dismissal "I shall seek council and make preparations". You let the implication finish the sentence and let blazing green drop to an eerie simmer, stretching your shadow long in the wizard light.
 
Apparently it's resistant to supernatural detection, to the degree that Uriel can't find it that way himself by WoJ.
The first time we run into a victim I want to see what happens if we ask the crown for the identities of everyone else like them in the mortal world.
Uriel cant? Or wont?
Can I get a citation for the claim? I would love to see the exact phrasing used.

ExWoD only supports lower circle Sorcery, here from the FAQ:
Trying to cast something world-spanning to fuck over Nemesis is propably not included, at least not unless we go beyond the limits of the ExWoD book, which I wouldn't rule out for the Dresdenverse, but it's not exactly close by either.
Thats why I said it would have to be a ritual/working, instead of a castable spell.
At least as magically complex as the attempted ritual at Chitchen Itza, and as much of a narratively big deal.

Look, the long and the short of it is that despite some posters' opinions Winter is the faction doing the most to keep reality intact.

We are inevitably going to end up dealing with and working with them at one point or another simply because reality happens to be where we keep our stuff and we're rather attached to it. Which means we're not going to be able to avoid Mab.

And let's be clear - killing Mab is a terrible idea. It's not quite 'Awaken the Kukla' but it's pretty close.
Yeah well.
A lot of people arent conversant, or comfortable with the idea of moral ambiguity.
Or the idea that NPCs have agency, and actions have Consequences.

It would be grimly hilarious to successfully murder Mab, and have her succeeded by a Nemesis-subverted Maeve.
Watch the Unseelie Accords dissolve into anarchy as the supernatural nations all turtle, and the Gates fall as Maeve opens them.
Great job breaking it hero, huh?

It would be spectacular to have Mother Winter go to war for the first time in ages.
Spectacular to watch I mean. Not to experience. :V
 
It's realy distressing.

It would be grimly hilarious to successfully murder Mab, and have her succeeded by a Nemesis-subverted Maeve.
Watch the Unseelie Accords dissolve into anarchy as the supernatural nations all turtle, and the Gates fall as Maeve opens them.
Great job breaking it hero, huh?
We simply need to change Maeve on the post of Winter Lady and only then annihilate Mab (which is a late-game project anyway).
 
It would be spectacular to have Mother Winter go to war for the first time in ages.
Spectacular to watch I mean. Not to experience. :V
Hopefully we'll have our Hell ready before Mother Winter has to go full Snowpiercer and turn the Earth into a frozen, lifeless wasteland, if that worst case scenario ever comes to pass.

On the bright side, we could eventually repopulate the Earth with Humans and other denizens of our Hell.
 
It's realy distressing.

We simply need to change Maeve on the post of Winter Lady and only then annihilate Mab (which is a late-game project anyway).
Killing the head of state of the local superpower means that their successor will come after you.
If you'd had the former POTUS assassinated, the new one would come after you.

Note that the Red Court were the people who gifted Lea with the Nemesis-infected athame that infected Lea and later Maeve.
In return, Mab helped genocide them as a species a decade later.
Dresden was Winter Knight when he did it, and Lea was given a hunting licenses to fuck them up.

There are fights you dont want to pick if at all avoidable.
 
Thats why I said it would have to be a ritual/working, instead of a castable spell.
At least as magically complex as the attempted ritual at Chitchen Itza, and as much of a narratively big deal.
Workings are not even adapted to ExWod.

I would really recommend supporting the Wizards, they are better at ritual-casting than we are and much more free in designing the intended effects.
We can add lore and possibly power, but the base-ritual functions better for their system than ours.
At least I think so, possible that it can't work anyway.

In which case trying to find something that counts as enough of He who walks Besides that we can fight it and use spirit-killers seems like the next-best idea.
I'd prefer to have Abyssal friends for that though, if you need something really killed for good with no takebacks they are the best choice.
 
Killing the head of state of the local superpower means that their successor will come after you.
If you'd had the former POTUS assassinated, the new one would come after you.
I'll be surprised if she leave us on our's own and will not give us a pleanty of casus belly. Actually, she is already meddling with us which we failed to avoide.
 
Winning vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 18, 2022 at 10:15 AM, finished with 212 posts and 36 votes.

  • [X] Yes, you will call on Mab and listen to what she has to say
    [X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."
    [X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."
    -[X]After Mab leaves? Crown of Eyes to ask what Mab knows about our exaltation. Arcane focus: footprints in ectoplasm, precise location(s) where she was standing.
    [X] Yes, you will call on Mab and listen to what she has to say
    -[X]After Mab leaves? Crown of Eyes to ask what Mab knows about our exaltation. Arcane focus: footprints in ectoplasm, precise location(s) where she was standing.
    [X] Yes, you will call on Mab and listen to what she has to say
    -[X] [Stunt] You tilt your head slightly, not quite in agreement but certainly not in dismissal "I shall seek council and make preparations". You let the implication finish the sentence and let blazing green drop to an eerie simmer, stretching your shadow long in the wizard light.
 
Arc 2 Post 59: At Battle's End
At Battle's End

22st of July 2006 A.D.

Quit while you are ahead, the saying goes. You do not exactly feel 'ahead' right now, just not entirely left in the dirt, but from what Usum has told you about Mab as well as the look on Gard and Harry's faces you have a feeling that is as close to putting one over on the queen of Air and Darkness as you are likely to get.

"Alright," you shrug with just enough nonchalance to make it clear her glamor isn't doing anything without, hopefully, making it into a challenge "Is that soon my the measure of men or of the deathless fey." Hopefully that is the kind of flattery the likes of Mab would appreciate, not of beauty or grace, not even of power or wits, but of perspective.

Though you still cannot read her expression beyond those flashes you had seen earlier you think it landed, or else she is fine with waiting because she answers: "Before the turning of the seasons on Samhain." Which... whatever she knows about my not-Mantle it isn't how fast it seems to grow. You can feel it now like a fire stoked higher and higher in the hearth ready to burst forth, a growing glacier about to spill forth an avalanche before settling back in.

Seeming content with how she had dealt with you and Harry Queen Mab turns her eyes first to Gard whom she offers an infinitesimal tilt of the head, which might be a nod for a job well done or something else you cannot even guess at between centuries old beings, then to Lydia.

"Know this child the debts of your sire shall have to be paid sooner or later and lighter will they be paid by you than him. I shall not speak of them here and now with you so new to your true self, but recall well that treason never prospers. Those who bear its mark are well advised to leave it behind and in honorable service find their place."

The girl, tired, bruised and still with blood on her clothes, though thankfully not her own looks her dead in the eyes, obviously struggling under the power of fey glamor. "Sir Jack Huntington lived around your time did he not? Midsummer Night's Dream was first portrayed while he lived. He too said treason doth never prosper. Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

Mab just stops, not like a flesh and blood woman would pause to take stock, more like water turning to ice with a sudden frost. "Child be thou a thousand times mightier and a thousand times again you shall not stop me from daring to call a true thing true. I have dared grater peril than you can in your darkest nightmares contemplate."

With that she is gone with the sound of a great stone door closing far away and a final blast of frozen wind.

Somehow Lydia is the first to find her voice. "Damn should have gone with 'you definitely look bigger than an agate-stone'. You know imply her new diet definitely isn't working."

This time you don't laugh, but there's no way you're keeping back a smile.

For his part poor Harry looks as harried as you have ever seen him. Something tells you that he is used to being the one to make quips to absurdly powerful beings not dealing with other people doing it. "Alright, let's just not call anymore attention to ourselves and clean up here before the FBI show us and try to arrest everyone."

Slowly, perhaps unwillingly his gaze falls back on the circle Arawn had passed through.

You anticipate the obvious question: "I have no idea what most of the writing is but my power told me it... fit with what we were doing. The only part of it I can still read is 'Perfected Principle of Consumption'. Don't worry it looses basically all of its meaning in English..."

"I would suggest," Gard says, speaking very deliberately. "Cleansing that with fire until the stone flows like water."

But... There are words in there you cannot read, words that might be important. You open your mouth to argue for snapping a picture of the whole circle first, but then you think of how that might look. You've been doing very spooky things all evening. Maybe you shouldn't push your luck by appearing too interested in the Ominous Writing of Ominousness. But it seems important though...

What do you do?

[] Snap a picture of the circle before Harry melts it

[] Leave be and continue with what clean up you can

[] Write in


***​

There's sadly nothing you can do about the bodies without leaving too many signs for the Daedalus people, or anyone else investigating to trace back to you. At the very least you can make sure that the ritual tools inside and outside the submarine are rendered harmless as well as getting rid of obvious forensic traces for the mortal authorities to follow. Where Gard learned so much about cleaning up a crime scene you do not know and you are not sure you want to, but you are glad of the expertise.

By the time you are done there are only a few things of great note to deal with Katrina's body which Gard takes responsibility for disposing and her effects. The gun is nothing special, it's made out of fancy polymers and not steel so it can pass through a metal detector, but when it comes to its damage Katrina had obviously derided that being able to shoot people in the back of the head point blank was more than enough to be getting on with.

Now the runeblade... it certainly has power of its own, 'an ever-changing ever grasping aura' Harry calls it, explaining that it will seek the weakness of any foe it encounters and seek to mimic it once it has drawn blood. He reluctantly proclaims that it probably would not curse the user and Gard concurs: "Katrina would never lay an enchantment against a foe wielding her weapons because that would be planning for defeat."

The jacket, also cleared of being evil, though not of being gross, you had seen it in action trying to thicken in response to a blow, like the hide of some great beast that can turn sword, axe, arrow and now bullet in equal measure. It does look kind of cool too admittedly.

What do you do about Katrina's effects?

[] Try to claim one of them, they might be useful or at least interesting
-[] The runeblade

Each time the weapon wounds an oppoment roll a d10. On a toll of 7+ the runeblade seeks to mimic the weakens of the opponent. Given blood from a specific foe the sword can also be anointed to have that quality before battle, though the effect will last until the next sunrise or sunset and cannot be changed until then even if a foe with a different weakness is wounded. This applies to most supernatural banes like cold iron, silver, yew and similar but not to very specific weaknesses like a Loup Garou's to inherited silver
-[] The jacket
Allows one to re-roll soak 3/day no more than 1/encounter

[] Leave them for the others

[] Write in


OOC: After this it will be the end of arc XP spending vote so I wanted to handle the whole clean up. I hope the transition isn't too abrupt.
 
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I'd only be willing to take the sword if we could fuse it to the Demon Blade for a new Pact Weapon, so to speak :V
 
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