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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Earth-Destroyer said:
You don't understand how VEE works. Dragonnests are a background, VEE absolutely can effect them. And we would gain XP not lose it. AP spent on fixing the dragonnest is time not spent on making XP. Even just spending that time with the MA monk would be better.

It a dragonnest even if just a sucky one. If the elemental could not defend it and keep away the riffraff, he would not have it at all. And the rating of a DragonNest is about how secure and defended it is. The whole point of overhauling it to make random trash unable to try and take it.
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1)No, you dont understand the charm.

VEE is bestowed by the Infernal, and exacts a price from the recipient. Our repairing the place and tarting it up is a price for services rendered which we negotiated. You should not be trying to pay someone by putting them into debt to you.
Molly Carpenter is not going to be going back on her word.

2)It is NOT a Dragons Nest. Yet.
Else it would already have other claimants other than a single elemental.

FriedIce said:
So, a question for those coming up with xp spending plans - what's the plan for when we invest in Sorcery? Some of those Ancient Sorcery spells are completely busted after all - even if they're expensive.

I get that everyone's focussed on getting the basics covered off, and upping our survivability, but what's the long term build vision?
I assume Sorcery is part of the vision for the build, after all the thread did buy Heir of Brigid during character creation.
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WISHLIST
Blessing of the Wood Dragon: Autorepair items. Possibly techbane negation.
Invulnerable Skin of Bronze for +4 soak.
Emerald Spirit Binding for binding spirit allies
Calling the Calibration Gate: Portals into and out of the NeverNever and spirit world in general
Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism: What it says
The Tree's Many Branches: Asura's Wrath style arms for multiple attacks

Infallible Messenger(spirit message/tracker), Dragon of Smoke and Fire(guide to a location), Hound of the Five Winds(tracker/combat ally) and Servant of Infallible Location(tracker) are not in the ExWoD book, but can be imported from Exalted spells if the QM approves.
 
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[X] Point out that even if he gets away this time they will never be safe from Mab unless they reach some kind of deal
-[X] Explain how we suspect Lydia is part of Mab's plans, and how she too won't be safe from her unless some sort of deal is reached.
-[X] Propose the mantle swap
--[X] Explain how it can be done without (permanent) harm
--[X] Ask Matthews if he's interested. Point out how it would protect him from Kemmlerite retribution.
 
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Yog said:
[X] Point out that even if he gets away this time they will never be safe from Mab unless they reach some kind of deal
-[X] Explain how Lydia is part of Mab's plans, and how she too won't be safe from her unless some sort of deal is reached.
-[X] Propose the mantle swap
--[X] Explain how it can be done without (permanent) harm
--[X] Ask Matthews if he's interested. Point out how it would protect him from Kemmlerite retribution.
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I was in the middle of writing up something very similar to this plan, so I'll just scrap that and go with yours.

[X] Yog

Can you change one part, though?

Rather than this:
-[] Explain how Lydia is part of Mab's plans, and how she too won't be safe from her unless some sort of deal is reached.

Can it instead say something like this:
-[] We suspect Lydia is part of Mab's plans, as a potential new bearer of your Mantle. Lydia may not be safe from your former queen unless some sort of deal is reached.

I just don't think we need to do strongly assert that we know this is the case. We think that's what Mab is planning, but we're not sure and trying to justify it might get a bit too close to giving away secrets we don't want to share.
 
Yog said:
While true, I am willing to bet that the successes would still matter, at least in the quality of what we make. And I want to have maximum amount of successes. This is likely going to be our main base for a long time, our seat of power. We need to be at our best for it.

This doesn't matter. We were told that a door with a smart electronic lock would work to trigger CCC. We could bust the door with our sword pretty trivially. Only "Molly honestly believes that she will have to overcome active physical resistance to leave the area, unless certain condition is met" matters for the charm. @DragonParadox please confirm.

And it doesn't have to be GPS (only). Add a camera, if it's a collar, so the devil could tell when we are moving.

Then we make a mundane refrigeration suit. Those exist and are commercially available.

Mercy in Servitude yes. But mortal(ish) minions won't be able to make ourselves a seat of power worthy of an exalt. For that we need exalted crafting.
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If it is physically restraining you to the point where you would have to break something it counts as imprisonment, but a suit would not work to make it cold, it has to be the environment. That means at a minimum a room.
 
[X] Point out that even if he gets away this time they will never be safe from Mab unless they reach some kind of deal
-[X][Stunt] "How often has Lydia made friends only to be forced to leave them behind?" you ask, "if you run today, she'll have to do it again. Will it ever change?"

[X] Point out that even if he gets away this time they will never be safe from Mab unless they reach some kind of deal
 
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uju32 said:
VEE is bestowed by the Infernal, and exacts a price from the recipient. Our repairing the place and tarting it up is a price for services rendered which we negotiated. You should not be trying to pay someone by putting them into debt to you.
Molly Carpenter is not going to be going back on her word.
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Do you not understand that HMP gives us unlimited wishes, just assign half a dozen bots to live in the place and have each of them wish it better. It a place all that matters to VEE is if its on their character sheet.
 
DragonParadox said:
Once King's Words
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-Horned helmets ugh.

-I didnt start out with a great impression of this dude, and he's not helping his case by threatening Dresden after Dresden helped save his life. Could just be my bias though.

-Also notably, he is threatening the one person he thinks is the least threat to him here; he didnt threaten Gard, because Gard is both a demigoddess and a servant of Odin, who is someone he doesnt want to court the enmity of.
And he's not threatening Molly because she currently looks like Serious Business.

DragonParadox said:
Rolls
You jump off the sub
Lydia jumps, her excellency has run out
Laying the dead to rest Arawn
Laying the dead to rest Gard
Asking Harry what the Shintai form feels like (full honesty)
Harry is surprisingly diplomatic
Arawn reads into Harry's words... 2+2 means Mab plot
Reading Arawn, he is grateful but also he had priorities
Death god solidarity? Nope, but Gard is not here for him so all she'll do is warn him
Ancient God of the Underworld making an argument against feudal bonds
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Loling here that Gard is better at laying ghosts to rest than Arawn.
Yes, ancient king is making an argument against feudal bonds when they bind him. The effrontery.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Do you not understand that HMP gives us unlimited wishes, just assign half a dozen bots to live in the place and have each of them wish it better. It a place all that matters to VEE is if its on their character sheet.
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Spirits created by HMP are not metaphysically weighty enough to make wishes of VEE, at least not all of them are. Clippy could do it eventually as she grows, but you do not get infinite wishes with One Weird Trick
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Do you not understand that HMP gives us unlimited wishes, just assign half a dozen bots to live in the place and have each of them wish it better. It a place all that matters to VEE is if its on their character sheet.
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The Infernal can grant any of the following: a dot of an Attribute; a dot of an Ability; a dot of a Background; a Merit; or she can remove a Flaw. No character can have more than one wish granted in the course of a year.
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I am not reading anything about it repairing a place. Or even Molly having such fine control of it.

But most of all what you propose sounds very very boring.
Yog said:
--[X] Ask Matthews if he's interested. Point out how it would protect him from Kemmlerite retribution.
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Why would Matthews want it? Presumably he'd have to work for Mab if we don't want to piss her off.
Why should he want that?
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Do you not understand that HMP gives us unlimited wishes, just assign half a dozen bots to live in the place and have each of them wish it better. It a place all that matters to VEE is if its on their character sheet.
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This is a game run by a human GM, not a janky simulation run by a game AI.
You can not expect to exploit your way to victory; its a violation of the implicit agreement between players and GM.
This is an obviously gamebreaking interpretation; no way the QM would permit it.
===
Rule Zero (as this is frequently called, hence the [Trope Name]) is a reminder to the players that the GM of any tabletop game has to exercise some common sense, and is permitted to supersede the rules when the rules would ruin enjoyment and fair play. You could cite all the rules and mechanics you want that said you just one-shotted the Big Bad by using the best weapon in the game to invoke the Chunky Salsa Rule; too bad. If the GM says it didn't happen, then it didn't happen. Period.
 
uju32 said:
This is a game run by a human GM, not a janky simulation run by a game AI.
You can not expect to exploit your way to victory; its a violation of the implicit agreement between players and GM.
This is an obviously gamebreaking interpretation; no way the QM would permit it.
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Infernals are the weakest at making minions, if we where a solar all of Molly family would be WC level mages already. And the whole point of infernal is exploiting their powers off of each other, that is their entire point.
 
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LightLan said:
Why would Matthews want it? Presumably he'd have to work for Mab if we don't want to piss her off.
Why should he want that?
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For a couple of reasons that leap to mind; A) He's an old man and likely not a powerful enough practitioner to get much of an extended lifespan like wizards enjoy, and B) He is genuinely remorseful about his past actions and those of the people he associated with, who were themselves among the most vile and destructive necromancers in recorded history.

Taking on the Eldest Ankou Mantle means he'll be around for a long time, allowing him to watch over his granddaughters, plus he would be able to atone for his past by hunting necromancers.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Infernals are the weakest at making minions, if we where a solar all of Molly family would be WC level mages already. And the whole point of infernal is exploiting their powers off of each other, that is their entire point.
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Yes, but some exploits are more broken than others. If you found an exploit as a Dawn allowing you to be One Punch Man I would nix that as well even though it is in theme. Being fitting gives an exploit more leeway, it does not offer an automatic free pass and 'infinite wishes' does not sound like a fun sort of synergy to me.
 
DragonParadox said:
"Like a star of destruction going supernova only to be focused down to a laser point, like an ocean of darkness flowing through a narrow, unbreakable channel."
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So if I'm translating Harry speak properly, we shouldn't need to worry about accidentally exploding the heads of any nearby Sensitives in classic Scanners-style, but they might have gotten a case of the screaming heeby jeebies or sense of "duck and cover!" existential doom?

I wonder what the non-Human supernatural community will make of it?
 
Man, wondering if we can respec to get Wicked City as a preferred path, we seem to be getting the most mileage from it's charms and it seems to have so many other cool things.

Also, Arwan's aesthetic is pretty cool. I admit half my reason for wanting the mantle swap is to see the ritual being done.

[X] Point out that even if he gets away this time they will never be safe from Mab unless they reach some kind of deal
-[X][Stunt] "How often has Lydia made friends only to be forced to leave them behind?" you ask, "if you run today, she'll have to do it again. Will it ever change?"
-[X] Propose the mantle swap
--[X] Explain how it can be done without (permanent) harm
--[X] Ask Matthews if he's interested. Point out how it would protect him from Kemmlerite retribution.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Infernals are the weakest at making minions, if we where a solar all of Molly family would be WC level mages already. And the whole point of infernal is exploiting their powers off of each other, that is their entire point.
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Yeah thats wrong.
We can literally get a civilization full of minions at E3 that we can spec as Loyal or Fanatical, with a significant percentage as explicit supernaturals. We can feed people and animals food and make them into loyal fomori.

Infernals play differently from Solars.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Yes, but some exploits are more broken than others. If you found an exploit as a Dawn allowing you to be One Punch Man I would nix that as well even though it is in theme. Being fitting gives an exploit more leeway, it does not offer an automatic free pass and 'infinite wishes' does not sound like a fun sort of synergy to me.
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Alright, then I'm going to run this exploit I thought of by you to see if you think it would work. HMP cyberdevils can share data with each other anywhere, so if we used something like a Technology Excellency to build an unholy hybrid of a wireless router and a cell phone tower and used HMP on it, would that allow Clippy to get access to internet and cell service from literally anywhere including the NeverNever so we wouldn't have to create a custom charm for the task? Because that's something people want and it seems workable.
 
uju32 said:
-I didnt start out with a great impression of this dude, and he's not helping his case by threatening Dresden after Dresden helped save his life. Could just be my bias though.
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I like the honesty.
He didn't threaten Dresden, he outright told him he'll pur him in a coma if it comes down to it.
That's confidence.

Also I did like that he immediatly did his job with the lingering ghosts, even while there's still danger from Dresden calling Her.
You can say that he abandoned his duty to Winter, but between going after Capri and now helping the guard's souls I'd say he's at least loyal to his duty as a psychopomp.

uju32 said:
-Also notably, he is threatening the one person he thinks is the least threat to him here; he didnt threaten Gard, because Gard is both a demigoddess and a servant of Odin, who is someone he doesnt want to court the enmity of.
And he's not threatening Molly because she currently looks like Serious Business.
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He picked out Harry because he could tell that he's working for Mab.
His words to us and Gard are about getting us on his side, he knows he can't do that with someone in debt to Mab.
 
bengalqueen said:
Alright, then I'm going to run this exploit I thought of by you to see if you think it would work. HMP cyberdevils can share data with each other anywhere, so if we used something like a Technology Excellency to build an unholy hybrid of a wireless router and a cell phone tower and used HMP on it, would that allow Clippy to get access to internet and cell service from literally anywhere including the NeverNever so we wouldn't have to create a custom charm for the task? Because that's something people want and it seems workable.
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I guess the Wi-Fi password for that router would be 666? :p
 
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