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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
Wait a second if you do not roll temp WP then what is the cost of spending it? Just vulnerability to things that specifically lower your Temp WP, presumably to zero?:???:
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Mostly that. You have a limited pool that does not regenerate outside of specific events, so you have to be careful in spending it, because being out of WP is as good as game over.

Quoting V20, p120:

The rating is rolled or tested, while the pool is spent. When a player spends a point of a character's Willpower, she should cross off the point from the Willpower pool (the squares), not the Willpower rating (the circles). The rating stays constant — if a character needs to roll Willpower for some reason, she bases the roll on the permanent rating. The pool is used up during the story.
A character's Willpower pool will likely fluctuate a great deal during the course of a story or chronicle. It decreases by one point every time a player uses a Willpower point to enable his character to do something extraordinary, like maintain self-control or gain an automatic success. Eventually, the character will have no Willpower left, and will no longer be able to exert the effort he once could. A character with no Willpower pool is exhausted mentally, physically, and spiritually, and will have great difficulty doing anything, as he can no longer muster the energy to undertake an action or cause. Willpower points can be regained during the course of a story, though players are advised to be frugal with their characters' Willpower pools.
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Edit: Also some few effects do target Current Willpower, so that's another worry to keep track of.
Say Mesmerism from the Gods and Monsters special abilities.
 
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uju32 said:
They're using radios in a tactical scenario against magic opposition.
Despite Wright being well aware of how electronic surveillance fails around magic.
They're sacrifices.
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Yeah, but them being the FBI's equivalent of class D personnel wouldn't change the fact that their organization made up and routinely uses the terminology they're working with.

I get why they did it on one level, but it's still a bit like going "Lasers are such a sci-fi thing, don't be such a geek. Now CLRs, that is Coherent Light Rays for you laymen, those are serious business". While talking to an optical engineer.

On a more direct note, I'm not sure they are deliberate sacrifices. We don't know exactly how long they've been at this or what their experience had been like.

I mean, they arrested a wizard in his own home, despite having had a bad experience once before. I somehow doubt it was with a real wizard, because pissing one off at home isn't something a sane person does.

If they're used to working with minor talents they could be familiar with tech bane, but only in how it effects more complicated electronics when exposed to them directly at short range. People with the sort of tech bane necessary to screw up guns accidentally are rare, even among wizards.

As easy as Dresden says weaponizing it is, I don't think we ever see it used by small time practitioners. It might be one of those things where turning around the inherent disadvantage to an ability takes power or insight that you don't have until you've been using it for a while.

They could easily be expecting that radios will work right up until they're engaged, and that a back up set in a sealed pouch or something will be just as safe as Molly's cellphone was while in her pocket while hanging out with Dresden.

This whole thing is still stupid of them, but it could be a result of the resource constraints of illegally operating outside of their mandate and a lack of relevant organizational experience.
 
uju32 said:
Yup.
Plus temporary WP is something you can spend for automatic successes in your rolls, so its lack can be serious
Especially when you're not using a Key Ability.
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Artemis1992 said:
Mostly that. You have a limited pool that does not regenerate outside of specific events, so you have to be careful in spending it, because being out of WP is as good as game over.

Quoting V20, p120:



Edit: Also some few effects do target Current Willpower, so that's another worry to keep track of.
Say Mesmerism from the Gods and Monsters special abilities.
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Huh... the system is a lot more forgiving than I thought it was, I figured that you get worse at rolling WP as you spend it.
 
Back in Exalted there were lots of charms costing Temp WP, sometimes costing multiple Temp WP. Unarmed and you want to conjure a daiklave by magic? Glorious Solar Saber is 6m,1wp. Magical flurry of attacks with your daiklave? Iron Whirlwind is 5m,1wp. Flying asshole shooting you from thirty feet up and you can't stab him? Blazing Solar Bolt lets you sword-blast distant people with the sunlight reflecting off your blade for 3m,1wp. It was an important resource, and the willpower balance might not have been entirely preserved along with other willpower systems across the mechanics changes.
 
DragonParadox said:
Getting all the cameras at once, if it were just one it would be DC 5.
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I propably would have raised the number of successes required, not the DC.
The latter depends on what level of a Sphere is used, the former on how impressive the feat of magic should be.

Since weaponising your techbane-effect is relativly simple at its base it shouldn't take high Spheres, so just scaling it up to hit more targets is a matter of successes.

In this case it doesn't matter, if he had a lower DC he would have easily hit 5 Sux, so that works anyway.
 
[X] Ask Gard if she can use a muggle-repelling ward to get the agents out of the museum ASAP.
 
Michael's back home, time to milk his absence for all it's worth.

[X] Let Daedalus go first, they might find a trap or two while dying.
 
Exmorri said:
Back in Exalted there were lots of charms costing Temp WP, sometimes costing multiple Temp WP. Unarmed and you want to conjure a daiklave by magic? Glorious Solar Saber is 6m,1wp. Magical flurry of attacks with your daiklave? Iron Whirlwind is 5m,1wp. Flying asshole shooting you from thirty feet up and you can't stab him? Blazing Solar Bolt lets you sword-blast distant people with the sunlight reflecting off your blade for 3m,1wp. It was an important resource, and the willpower balance might not have been entirely preserved along with other willpower systems across the mechanics changes.
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In Ex2, you also regenerated 4 motes of Essence or 1 WP every combat turn, or every time you pulled off a 2-dot stunt.
It was spent so profligately because it was so easy to come by.
BronzeTongue said:
Yeah, but them being the FBI's equivalent of class D personnel wouldn't change the fact that their organization made up and routinely uses the terminology they're working with.

I get why they did it on one level, but it's still a bit like going "Lasers are such a sci-fi thing, don't be such a geek. Now CLRs, that is Coherent Light Rays for you laymen, those are serious business". While talking to an optical engineer.

On a more direct note, I'm not sure they are deliberate sacrifices. We don't know exactly how long they've been at this or what their experience had been like. I mean, they arrested a wizard in his own home, despite having had a bad experience once before. I somehow doubt it was with a real wizard, because pissing one off at home isn't something a sane person does.

If they're used to working with minor talents they could be familiar with tech bane, but only in how it effects more complicated electronics when exposed to them directly at short range. People with the sort of tech bane necessary to screw up guns accidentally are rare, even among wizards.

As easy as Dresden says weaponizing it is, I don't think we ever see it used by small time practitioners. It might be one of those things where turning around the inherent disadvantage to an ability takes power or insight that you don't have until you've been using it for a while.

They could easily be expecting that radios will work right up until they're engaged, and that a back up set in a sealed pouch or something will be just as safe as Molly's cellphone was while in her pocket while hanging out with Dresden.

This whole thing is still stupid of them, but it could be a result of the resource constraints of illegally operating outside of their mandate and a lack of relevant organizational experience.
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1)According to our records hack, they went after some sanctum in New Orleans with disastrous results.
If they know enough to have doubts about the veracity of electronic recording equipment overlooking a public area out in the open, they should know enough not to be relying on radio. If they're attempting a stealth approach, they shouldnt be radio chatter.

I can forgive the guns. Not the loud radio chatter.
Plus, no chemsticks. Instead flashlights.

2)As for threat assessment, do recall that the loup garou incident was less than five years ago. The one where Carmichael and a bunch of SI cops died in police lockup when the loup went berserk. Where Dresden threw a fire beam that blew MacFinn through two brick walls and across a street. Where the final confrontation between Dresden and the loup ended up online.

Hell, the Darkhallow was ten months ago, and the aftermath had dead bodies found lying around.
Let alone Sue ending up in a field.

3)We dont really see many minor practitioners in DF.
 
VOTE
[X]Quick veil should be enough to cover you,
-[X]Ask Gard to use her muggle-repelling ward

REASON
Like we saw underground, ghost possession is a risk for people with no experience or insufficient willpower.
So are actual ghost attacks fucking you up. And zombies are always in play with necromancers.

Deaths strengthen necromancy, and dead bodies are resources for necromancers, which are both good reasons to keep insufficiently prepared newbies out of the combat area.
Even from a purely pragmatic PoV, these guys are probably liabilities. Nevermind the ethics.

And I'd rather not have law enforcement witnesses to shanking someone, at least not if they can recognize us.
mastigos said:
Permanent WP is the strength of your will
Unless they have both and the flashlights are techbane detectors
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If you want a techbane detector you'd carry a cheap electronic watch. Or a calculator.
Something that wont announce your presence to everything with eyes and line of sight in half a mile.
 
I don't think the Daedalus people have any idea what they're getting into by trying to get involved with supernatural shit, but we might be reading a bit too much into their incompetence in this instance.

Rather than assuming their presence in the museum is part of an operation to deal with Nazi warlocks and murderous necromancers, they could be here because a janitor or other employee reported something spooky going on before they were killed, captured, or forced to flee and word reached the Daedalus team that was in the area as part of their scheme to blackmail Harry.

They could just be playing government-sanctioned ghost hunters with no clue what's about to go down. That would explain the lack of NVG, poor radio discipline, use of flashlights and radios, etc.
 
I wouldn't want to take NVG gear anywhere that a wizard was throwing down. That isn't a sign of incompetence.

A regular flashlight is miuch more resistant to techbane than the highly complex set of microelectronics that is a set of NVG goggles.
 
Goldfish said:
I don't think the Daedalus people have any idea what they're getting into by trying to get involved with supernatural shit, but we might be reading a bit too much into their incompetence in this instance.

Rather than assuming their presence in the museum is part of an operation to deal with Nazi warlocks and murderous necromancers, they could be here because a janitor or other employee reported something spooky going on before they were killed, captured, or forced to flee and word reached the Daedalus team that was in the area as part of their scheme to blackmail Harry.

They could just be playing government-sanctioned ghost hunters with no clue what's about to go down. That would explain the lack of NVG, poor radio discipline, use of flashlights and radios, etc.
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They're Federal agents. NatSec branch, not Criminal Division.
They have no jurisdiction here; no federal crime has been committed or is in progress, and the Museum is not federal territory.
Any reports of spookiness or breakins would have gone to Chicago PD.

Someone TOLD them something was going down here, in time to get mobilized and show up.
But ommitted telling them just how serious it was.
That, when combined with the same way someone told them about "Dresden" killing Greene, screams setup.

They're dupes.
 
Alratan said:
I wouldn't want to take NVG gear anywhere that a wizard was throwing down. That isn't a sign of incompetence.

A regular flashlight is miuch more resistant to techbane than the highly complex set of microelectronics that is a set of NVG goggles.
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And quite frankly if you don't have the training required to make the most of them, it's fairly stupid to try. A flashlight may not be as effective of a tool, but it is a WHOLE lot easier to use, and won't leave you blind if someone flips on the lights.
 
uju32 said:
[X]Quick veil should be enough to cover you,
-[X]Ask Gard to use her muggle-repelling ward
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The only concern I have with this is that Harry isn't very good with veils (or most other subtle uses of magic), meaning he lacks efficiency and uses more power to create them than is necessary, and as a result his are probably going to be "louder" than we would prefer.

Fooling the muggles with the veil shouldn't be too difficult, but there is a good chance creating the veil will alert Katrina and her fellows to our presence if they aren't already aware of us. Evil Bob will likely sense the veil, even if no one else does.
 
Goldfish said:
The only concern I have with this is that Harry isn't very good with veils (or most other subtle uses of magic), meaning he lacks efficiency and uses more power to create them than is necessary, and as a result his are probably going to be "louder" than we would prefer.

Fooling the muggles with the veil shouldn't be too difficult, but there is a good chance creating the veil will alert Katrina and her fellows to our presence if they aren't already aware of us. Evil Bob will likely sense the veil, even if no one else does.
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He isnt canon Molly, but he isnt exactly bad at it. He's just comparing himself to specialists.
Besides, we're asking Gard to put up a ward.
If they dont notice that, they wont notice a nine second veil.

Though I'd be surprised if they dont already know we're here.
A single ghost watching the doors is a trivial investment for a necromancer who has been here since Friday.
 
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uju32 said:
He isnt canon Molly, but he isnt exactly bad at it. He's just comparing himself to specialists.
Besides, we're asking Gard to put up a ward.
If they dont notice that, they wont notice a nine second veil.

Though I'd be surprised if they dont already know we're here.
A single ghost watching the doors is a trivial investment for a necromancer who has been here since Friday.
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I still doubt Harry will be able to make a veil that won't be detected by the enemy, but you're probably right that they already know we're here.

[X] uju32
 
Goldfish said:
I still doubt Harry will be able to make a veil that won't be detected by the enemy, but you're probably right that they already know we're here.

[X] uju32
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The spell that took out the cameras was weaponized techbane. Anything that paying attention to magic should have been able to feel it.

And we have not been sneaking otherwise. Anyone with ears can hear the " shoes clanking almost obscenely loud in the silence between the sighs and moans of the dead"

The dead who can absolutely see us and are absolutely reporting to their masters that someone is coming.
 
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Okaaay...

[X]Quick veil should be enough to cover you,
-[X]Ask Gard to use her muggle-repelling ward
 
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