They are almost certainly magical wonders. We'd need Constructive Convergence of Principles for that.
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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Molly has not seen a Warden Sword in her life so she could not say whether or not she could make one or what it might do. That said when she asks Usum what enchantments she can make the answer is 'given enough time and enough focus learning it you can match any mortal sorcery my princess'. How much of that is literally true and how much of that is his usual manner Molly also cannot say.
- Location
- washington
would he consider demonreach mortal craft?
would he consider demonreach mortal craft?
Molly has not seen it yet IC, can't judge.
- Location
- Earth
I expect demonreach to try to imprison any infernal.would he consider demonreach mortal craft?
It might even pull it off.
- Location
- washington
probably not actually word of jim it can't hold a mortal permanently thomas will break free soonish. Thats not even mentioning our exalted freedom shit that lets us escape things and exp we could gain over time in the prison.
- Location
- washington
There any exalted powers that let you eat (metaphorically or literally) powerful and or dark beings for power? That or something similar like gain power off imprisoned beings?
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's charms to let you regain Essence by killing stuff or refresh an Infernal's Shintai, but the only way I know of for Exalted to gain a permanent power-up by killing something is by gaining XP, which you don't need a Charm for, gaining new power by overcoming opponents and challenges is just baked-in to the Exaltation.
I mean, I suppose there's cutting stuff up for magical crafting materials, but that's not really the same thing.
We could probably pull it off with the Sorcery Path of Enchantment as well, which is arguably more versatile. Harry might be able to teach it as well, given he can make some kinds of enchanted items.
The example we have from the Qiao suggests there might be some quite attractive discounts available.
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There are some things that break that rule; gifts for example generate debt with a fey unless the giver explicitly waves it, which is one of the reasons you're not supposed to accept things from them.
In general, it seems like the sort of things that'd generate debt by storybook logic also generate debt with the fey. Saving her daughter's life seems like it would count, especially when it involves kicking around an agent of her eternal enemies.
Effort and investment are relevant here. Since we have to move up a tree to get those effects we shouldn't pick up martial arts unless a majority of the tree is actually useful for us and has some amount of synergy with our other abilities.
We shouldn't treat them like they're charms we grab for one specific ability half way through the set or we'll end up wasting a lot of time and exp getting them, and in the meantime run around without abilities we need while we wait for the perfect solution.
The experience point discounts we get for learning Qiao change the calculation a bit, and we can always stop after learning two dots and not go any further.
Particularly as the one dot power is also very useful. It would have told us what Lydia was just by looking at her, for example. It's a great way of harvesting essence using the Crown.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, the first dot is useful for seeing magical creatures for what they are without passive glamours, and the second dot is useful for so many reasons.
Okay, so, one success gives you an automatic magical lie detector for everyone you can see for the entire scene. I'm pretty sure getting that for one essence spent for just one person instead of everyone was actually a Twilight Charm in vanilla Exalted that I remember, so already worth it for that alone. Two successes lets you know if the mind of anyone you see has been tampered with in any way, and three lets you detect possession at a glance. Since our expected amount of successes with the activation roll for our dice pool is roughly 3, we can pretty reliably get all of that, and Occult Excellency applies if we really want to push it. Then, if we get at least 5 successes on the activation roll, we can tell not only that someone is being mentally influenced at a glance, even if there's no visible signs to the mundane eye, we can tell who did it.
So, all together, we get all of the functionality of Hellscry Chakra, and drastically more, for the total XP cost as a 3-dot unfavored Charm, instead of a 2-dot one, before XP discounts from training, which can reduce it at max to the same total cost as a favored 2-dot Charm.
So, maybe not an immediate priority, but definitely something to get down the line. At least for the first two dots. Third dot onwards is basically just different ways of interacting with the NeverNever without physically going to the NeverNever, which is interesting, but not as much of a priority for me. Maybe when we get to the point every Elder Exalt eventually reaches where we're doing and learning stuff because we can, instead of because it's useful, but that's not in the near future, so…
Okay, so, one success gives you an automatic magical lie detector for everyone you can see for the entire scene. I'm pretty sure getting that for one essence spent for just one person instead of everyone was actually a Twilight Charm in vanilla Exalted that I remember, so already worth it for that alone. Two successes lets you know if the mind of anyone you see has been tampered with in any way, and three lets you detect possession at a glance. Since our expected amount of successes with the activation roll for our dice pool is roughly 3, we can pretty reliably get all of that, and Occult Excellency applies if we really want to push it. Then, if we get at least 5 successes on the activation roll, we can tell not only that someone is being mentally influenced at a glance, even if there's no visible signs to the mundane eye, we can tell who did it.
So, all together, we get all of the functionality of Hellscry Chakra, and drastically more, for the total XP cost as a 3-dot unfavored Charm, instead of a 2-dot one, before XP discounts from training, which can reduce it at max to the same total cost as a favored 2-dot Charm.
So, maybe not an immediate priority, but definitely something to get down the line. At least for the first two dots. Third dot onwards is basically just different ways of interacting with the NeverNever without physically going to the NeverNever, which is interesting, but not as much of a priority for me. Maybe when we get to the point every Elder Exalt eventually reaches where we're doing and learning stuff because we can, instead of because it's useful, but that's not in the near future, so…
It changes it a little, but the fact remains that we need to hunt down and arrange for tutoring to learn it, and then learn prerequisites to get whatever particular effect we want. Getting them because the majority of the effects are good for us is one thing, but taking dips just makes it an exp and time sink.
They're also not charms, which it sounds like makes them more vulnerable to conventional interference.
It's also worth keeping in mind the old adage that perfect is the enemy of good. Spending arc after arc without useful abilities because we're chasing the best possible variant could leave us worse off over all. Obviously there needs to be some balance here, but overall I think we should tend towards using MA that give us abilities that we don't have a native option for.
- Location
- florida
It's one of the reasons I'd think... pffft.
Demonic primacy of essence and viridian legend exoskeleton for next vote? Maybe some more skills.
Mix in some combat and utility. Just nice to have.
Something like that. I'm kind of leaning towards more explicit combat charms since we primarily have utility and circumstantial buff effects right now.
In particular, the counter conceptual perfect defense is tempting. Sure it's the most expensive, but per that ruling we got it can also pull double duty as a (possibly partial) shaping defense and doesn't have a flaw that causes immediate failure.
More Abilities means more chances to do things, which means more chances for XP.
I disagree. We should use Qiao to gain effects that are useful to us when they're better than our native charms. In this case the Qiao of Jade Harmony is strictly better than our native charms, and not by a small amount.
And taking a couple of dots in a Qiao in no way obligates us to take more. Both of the first two ranks of Jade Harmony are very useful for us. We can dip into it and stop there.
Our teacher knows other Qiao behind the ones he's currently willing to teach. Hopefully that includes Jade Harmony, so we just need him to trust us enough by demonstrating suitably heroic behaviour,
In exalted if you start learning a MA you have to learn the whole thing before learning another.
My point is essentially to take opportunity costs and marginal gains into account when making decisions.
The cost isn't just the exp, it's the time and effort to set up training, the payment for receiving it if any, the things we could have been doing with the available alternatives, and a many more factors.
Training from the set we have available that are better than what we can otherwise access is useful, but putting things off in hopes of eventually getting a better alternative isn't free.
- Location
- Hive City Ares, Armageddon, Segmentum Solar
[X] uju32
consolidating my vote
consolidating my vote
That rule doesn't exist with regards to Qiao (or sidereal not-martial arts) in ExWoD.
I'm also not sure it ever did in Exalted.
We have lots of otherwise useful things we can spend XP on in the interim, not just charms but also attributes, abilities, and hedge magic.
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Ok, let's see how well you do with this one.
Yes? I mentioned that on the previous oage.
One of the Whites in White Night had a pair of bracelets that did much the same thing to hostile magic, so its not limited to sword form. Ramirez had to stab it with a Warden sword to destroy it.
......Huh, you're right.
I was thinking she'd heard of the Wardens with their grey cloaks and swords, and forgot she hadnt actually met one officially.
And while Ebenezar was apparently Warden-Commander in the 19th century, Im not sure if he still carries a Warden sword now.
At least Bob's previous holder was a Warden, with a Warden sword.
If we need a detailed description, he can probably make a decent standin.
And she's seen both Gard's axe and all three Swords; Fidelacchius should still be in Harry's apartment somewhere.
would he consider demonreach mortal craft?
Demonreach is basically an Exalted manse.
Mortal craft IMO.
Very impressive mortal craft, but still mortal craft.
Sorcery Path Enchantment costs 23XP for 4 dots: 4XP for Enchantment 1, 3XP for Enc 2, 6XP for Enc 3, and 9XP for Enc 4.
And its not maxed yet; Paths go up to 5 or 6 dots.
CCP costs 20XP flat.
And I dont think there's any indication that Enchantment is more versatile.
The main benefit of Enchantment is that it has lower upfront costs if you just want to dabble a little; every wizard/sorcerer has a couple focus items they have to make, even if they arent all-in on Crafting.
However, CCP is a vastly superior investment for a serious artificer. It just costs more up front.
Demonic Primacy of Essence: 3XP
Viridian Legend Exoskeleton: 6XP
Boiling Sea Mastery: 3XP
Rage Recast: Flight: 6XP
Allies 1-2: 3-6XP
We definitely want VLE. We can negotiate over the rest.
I dont think thats true by RAW.
Certainly wasnt true in practice for most players tables I heard of.
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- Location
- Earth
Harry's apartment was ransacked once with a Sword inside.
No one noticed the thing.
I wouldn't bet on Molly having seen it.
The dude in Warrior did. The Swords exercise their invisibility selectively.
Anyway, she has seen them because their wielders have been at her home, back when Shiro died in Death Masks, and she was magically sensitive at the time. Nothing like now, of course.
I cant remember if Dresden brought Fidelacchius to Arctis Tor; I dont think so, but I havent reread Proven Guilty recently.