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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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a red court vampire isn't going to bother to travel to fucking china from south america to murder a wizard (before planes and global communications for everyone) and lots of monsters and spirits and other things aren't gonna go too far from where they primarily have their dealings.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Going by Mage rules, a high Sphere in Corrospondance could be used to instantly call her Golems to her side.
Or she uses some Spirit/Prime trick to keep them immaterial until they are needed.

There are ways to get your golems in emergencies, if you have the skill to work out a way.
And golems that are either very powerful or specialised against specific foes are propably a valid weapon even in high-power combat.
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In Mage.
I havent seen that sort of Correspondence effect in Dresden. Not saying its impossible, just that I've never seen or heard of it.
The Spirit/Prime trick would be neat if you could pull it off, and had the numbers of golems necessary to keep you alive.

firefrog600 said:
Dude there are white council wizards who are old who aren't wardens.
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You'd be surprised at how many ex-Wardens there are.
McCoy used to be Warden Captain back in the 1870s.
firefrog600 said:
wizards actually largely were the long range communicators pre phones. Not the only ones obviously they did very well at it though. also nasty things don't travel worldwide either very often they have their own places they live just like everybody else.
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They were the long range communicators for humans.
Supernaturals did just fine without them; vampires are naturally able to walk the NeverNever using areas of significance as gateways, and Fae dont need no stinking roads.

Yeah, no.
Citation very much needed on that claim. The Sidhe Courts are worldwide, and demons know no borders. Nor do the Fallen.
And thats just three factions.
firefrog600 said:
a red court vampire isn't going to bother to travel to fucking china from south america to murder a wizard (before planes and global communications for everyone) and lots of monsters and spirits and other things aren't gonna go too far from where they primarily have their dealings.
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Ortega travelled from Honduras to the US to kill Dresden. So did the Eebs. And we have no reason to believe this is a new occurrence; like I said previously, its an established fact that Vampires cross into and out of the NeverNever using spots of significance. Blacks for instance use graveyards, and Raiths use strip clubs and similar places of lust.
 
I admit to have lost where the heck this discussion has been going on for a while now, so let me again try and shill for focusing on freeing Dresden and side-texting Michael with our actions instead of detouring to Bob.

1. We're already kinda visiting Dresden/Foothill by dropping off the tape, so might as well fully dedicate to springing him. Dresden is 100% an asset that'd help here.
2. Bob's main utility is giving us info on stuff Molly doesn't know about--Capricorpus and the Black Feast
3. However, Molly can likely get the deets on at least Capricorpus via visiting Dresden/bailing him and by texting her Dad. Bob might be able to give more, but I think alerting Dresden and Michael by just telling them the very sketchy conversation we've heard is more efficient than going to Bob and then alerting them since those two already know.
 
uju32 said:
In Mage.
I havent seen that sort of Correspondence effect in Dresden. Not saying its impossible, just that I've never seen or heard of it.
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I know the kind of teleportation-tricks high Corrospondence can achieve are not common in Dresden Files.

But if anyone could bend the rules a bit it would be a Senior Council member who can create her own golems in such a way to have sympathetic connection to her that makes these tricks easier.
 
uju32 said:
In Mage.
I havent seen that sort of Correspondence effect in Dresden. Not saying its impossible, just that I've never seen or heard of it.
The Spirit/Prime trick would be neat if you could pull it off, and had the numbers of golems necessary to keep you alive.


You'd be surprised at how many ex-Wardens there are.
McCoy used to be Warden Captain back in the 1870s.

They were the long range communicators for humans.
Supernaturals did just fine without them; vampires are naturally able to walk the NeverNever using areas of significance as gateways, and Fae dont need no stinking roads.

Yeah, no.
Citation very much needed on that claim. The Sidhe Courts are worldwide, and demons know no borders. Nor do the Fallen.
And thats just three factions.

Ortega travelled from Honduras to the US to kill Dresden. So did the Eebs. And we have no reason to believe this is a new occurrence; like I said previously, its an established fact that Vampires cross into and out of the NeverNever using spots of significance. Blacks for instance use graveyards, and Raiths use strip clubs and similar places of lust.
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I was talking with a friend about the faerie courts, and since we live in Australia, we were both wondering what the explanation is for the seasons being reversed in the southern hemisphere. Does Titania take a vacation down south for Christmas? Or is there a seperate pair of courts for the south?
"Oh, no, they'll just rotate interests. Mab has more power in the southern winter, Titania in the southern summer. Though, as fundamentally northern-hemisphere, basically Western European beings, they don't have the kind of absolute reign there that they enjoy in other parts of the world, and their relationships there consist more of strong alliances and consensus influence among a much larger population of Wyld fae."

also it was a response that they aren't all so knowledgeable many of said supernatural beings gather information naturally and won't know about a wizard on the other side of the world.

for how many are ex-wardens I mean yeah you just listed mccoy I'm saying there are centuries old wizards who have never been wardens that are alive.

Also is combat magic really a requirement for survival? I mean nicodemus has never been a wizard talent and hes survived two thousand years mostly with occasional rituals, sword skills, some powers, and general wit. Well at least his sorta wife has been around a thousand years without the conditional immortality of the noose. I mean combat powers definitely help.
 
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Alratan said:
The fact that she has betrayed her nature by becoming a necromancer while being a psychopomp, and betrayed her oaths to Odin make it almost certain that she is.
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Old Norse.
Its just as much in theme for them to be nasty vicious warriors who plunder who they can when they can.
Its possible that this is a Nemesis thing. I just dont see any current sign of it.

Artemis1992 said:
I know the kind of teleportation-tricks high Corrospondence can achieve are not common in Dresden Files.
But if anyone could bend the rules a bit it would be a Senior Council member who can create her own golems in such a way to have sympathetic connection to her that makes these tricks easier.
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Perhaps.
Even if she did manage this, it would be a late game trick. Not the things that kept her alive through her youth and early middle age.
 
magic is magic jims pretty much said its an energy different species use it differently though and not always the same individually.

White councils got things others dont. Also you know free will.
 
Anyone else well and truly tired of the completely off-topic tangent about the magical combat potential of a particular wizard who has not and may never make an appearance in the quest? It's been going on since I woke up early this morning, to the detriment of actually relevant stuff.
 
firefrog600 said:
Also is combat magic really a requirement for survival I mean nicodemus has never been a wizard talent and hes survived two thousand years mostly with occasional rituals, sword skills, some powers, and general wit. Well at least his sorta wife has been around a thousand years without the conditional immortality of the noose. I mean combat powers definitely help.
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Yes?
Nicodemus literally wears a "I cannot be killed" Artifact NA around his neck, and has a major Fallen watching his back.
C'mon.
 
Goldfish said:
Anyone else well and truly tired of the completely off-topic tangent about the magical combat potential of a particular wizard who has not and may never make an appearance in the quest? It's been going on since I woke up early this morning, to the detriment of actually relevant stuff.
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yes I just don't personally agree with them and am making my opinions pretty clear. People can and do survive without combat magic for long periods of time.
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Sep 1, 2022 at 1:01 PM, finished with 171 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Get more information from Bob, maybe he knows who Capricorpus is, that's a new name
    -[X]Text Michael.Tell him you've handed off tape to Forthill. Add heads up, and ask him to get his stuff while you try getting some extra information from Harry's place.
    [X] Ask Black Rider to kill the engine so you win some time
    -[X] Search for Cindy with the Crown if you can get her out Katrina loses her leverage on Matthews
    -[X] Call Gard, ask her if she has a sister with a sideline in kidnapping children and trying to eat retired death gods. You could use some backup even if it is gangsters
    [X] Go see Harry along with Father Forthil as he shows the tape to the CPD, if you are going to spring him before Monday it's going to take some fast talking especially since the argument is 'this is weird supernatural stuff you do not want to get mixed into'
    [X] Call Gard, ask her if she has a sister with a sideline in kidnapping children and trying to eat retired death gods. You could use some backup even if it is gangsters
    [X] What did people do before cellphones?
    -[X] After leaving the tape with Father Forthill;
    --[X] Call Michael and briefly explain the situation. Tell him we're heading to Harry's to hopefully get some answers.
    --[X] Call Gard, ask her if she has a sister with a sideline in kidnapping children and trying to eat retired death gods. You could use some backup, assuming she or her associates are concerned with the activities of a Forsaken Sister.
    --[X] Call Mouse and let him know we're on the way. Ask him to text us if there anything strange or bad has happened since we left that we should know about before arriving. Or to just bark at us, Lassy-style, if there is trouble.
    -[X] At Harry's apartment;
    --[X] Get more information from Bob; Who or what is Capricorpus and what is a Black Feast? What are the common and uncommon powers typically possessed by Valkyries? Does he know anything in particular about Katrina? What can he tell us about necromancers, their common strengths and weaknesses, surprises we should be on the lookout for, etc.
    --[X] If the question and answer session with Bob is going to take 15 minutes or more, setup a bleach bath to squeeze out every bit of Essence recovery we can manage in the time available.
    [X] Go see Harry along with Father Forthil as he shows the tape to the CPD, if you are going to spring him before Monday it's going to take some fast talking especially since the argument is 'this is weird supernatural stuff you do not want to get mixed into'
    -[X] Text Michael. Tell him you've handed off tape to Forthill. Add heads up, and ask him to get his stuff while you help Forthill.
    -[X] Once you are assembled ask your Crown for the location of the girl.
    [X] Go see Harry along with Father Forthil as he shows the tape to the CPD, if you are going to spring him before Monday it's going to take some fast talking especially since the argument is 'this is weird supernatural stuff you do not want to get mixed into'
    -[X] Have Clippy text Dad with the basic details, aka "Nazi necromancers kidnapped little girl to force her grandfather to do shady stuff," and have her continue to brief him as needed and get him to meet up with us.
    -[X] After Harry has been briefed on the situation, ask him if he thinks we should call Gard for more backup against Katrina or go straight to using the Crown and then rescuing Cindy, he knows more about whatever supernatural creature they are than you do
    [X] Go see Harry along with Father Forthil as he shows the tape to the CPD, if you are going to spring him before Monday it's going to take some fast talking especially since the argument is 'this is weird supernatural stuff you do not want to get mixed into'
    -[X] Have Clippy text Dad with the basic details, aka "Nazi necromancers kidnapped little girl to force her grandfather to do shady stuff," and have her continue to brief him as needed and get him to meet up with us.
    --[X] Ensure text includes mentions of a 'Black Feast' and 'Capricorpus'
    -[X] After Harry has been briefed on the situation, ask him if he thinks we should call Gard for more backup against Katrina or go straight to using the Crown and then rescuing Cindy, he knows more about whatever supernatural creature they are than you do
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5x 6x Talk to Bob
4x Go see Harry

Is there any suggestions Im missing?
Can anyone justify calling Lydia, for example?
 
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Goldfish said:
Anyone else well and truly tired of the completely off-topic tangent about the magical combat potential of a particular wizard who has not and may never make an appearance in the quest? It's been going on since I woke up early this morning, to the detriment of actually relevant stuff.
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Oh I thought it was general world-building stuff? Lol wasn't kidding about completely loosing track of the conversation..two pages ago? Could I convince you on the merits of alerting Michael about the sketchy convo including the keyword "Capricorpus" (it is meta that we know this is a Big Deal while Molly doesn't, but I don't think it's too ridiculous for her to send a few texts to God Sword Dad about the ridiculously sketchy Nazi convo) and Dresden via seeing him in person? Bob would get us more info, but I think that is perfect getting in the way of the good where Dresden definitely knows enough to loop us in/make preparations if we give him a heads up and focus on getting him out.

firefrog600 said:
yes I just don't personally agree with them and am making my opinions pretty clear. People can and do survive without combat magic for long periods of time.
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CONGRATS ON MISSING THE POINT. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree, its that this derail has long since run its course and is going on to the active detriment of the currently active and contested vote!
 
A_Somebody said:
Oh I thought it was general world-building stuff? Lol wasn't kidding about completely loosing track of the conversation..two pages ago? Could I convince you on the merits of alerting Michael about the sketchy convo including the keyword "Capricorpus" (it is meta that we know this is a Big Deal while Molly doesn't, but I don't think it's too ridiculous for her to send a few texts to God Sword Dad about the ridiculously sketchy Nazi convo) and Dresden via seeing him in person? Bob would get us more info, but I think that is perfect getting in the way of the good where Dresden definitely knows enough to loop us in/make preparations if we give him a heads up and focus on getting him out.


CONGRATS ON MISSING THE POINT. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree, its that this derail has long since run its course and is going on to the active detriment of the currently active and contested vote!
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the votes not very contested lot of varied votes sure there is a fairly clear winner if we're talking by percentage though. Also missing the point? The point was to argue my points previously now I've moved on since its been pointed out.
 
@uju32, are you completely opposed to contacting Gard?

For those voting to ask Harry for information, you should keep in mind that the feds who kidnapped him with plans for blackmail have absolutely no reason to respect his right to attorney client privilege or general privacy. They're already off the legal reservation, so one more violation of Harry's rights is basically guaranteed at this point.

Also, Harry is not nearly as knowledgeable as Bob about pretty much any magic-related topics you could think of, especially necromancy. He might not have the slightest clue what a Black Feast is, for example, while Bob was probably looking over Kemmler's shoulder when the ritual was devised.

[X] uju32
 
DragonParadox said:
Very fair point, let's just drop the Ancient Mai tangent for now and focus on the vote.
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That long? Damn.

uju32 said:
5x 6x Talk to Bob
4x Go see Harry

Is there any suggestions Im missing?
Can anyone justify calling Lydia, for example?
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Just ask for more people to vote. Its just a lack of interest.

The actual contents of votes matters incredibly little compared the the name attached to it.

edit:
See goldfish switching just to get things moving along. Speaking of which.

[X] uju32
 
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A_Somebody said:
Oh I thought it was general world-building stuff? Lol wasn't kidding about completely loosing track of the conversation..two pages ago? Could I convince you on the merits of alerting Michael about the sketchy convo including the keyword "Capricorpus" (it is meta that we know this is a Big Deal while Molly doesn't, but I don't think it's too ridiculous for her to send a few texts to God Sword Dad about the ridiculously sketchy Nazi convo) and Dresden via seeing him in person? Bob would get us more info, but I think that is perfect getting in the way of the good where Dresden definitely knows enough to loop us in/make preparations if we give him a heads up and focus on getting him out.
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Thats the point of including a headsup in the text message while Molly goes to see Bob.

Im not sure if we want to be too frank on the phone anyway
The Daedalus Group people are still out there, and Im not putting it past those guys to have wiretaps.
Better face to face.
 
Goldfish said:
@uju32, are you completely opposed to contacting Gard?

For those voting to ask Harry for information, you should keep in mind that the feds who kidnapped him with plans for blackmail have absolutely no reason to respect his right to attorney client privilege or general privacy. They're already off the legal reservation, so one more violation of Harry's rights is basically guaranteed at this point.

Also, Harry is not nearly as knowledgeable as Bob about pretty much any magic-related topics you could think of, especially necromancy. He might not have the slightest clue what a Black Feast is, for example, while Bob was probably looking over Kemmler's shoulder when the ritual was devised.

[X] uju32
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hes not hes said previously its a good idea to get in contact with them hes just doing these two things first.
 
Goldfish said:
@uju32, are you completely opposed to contacting Gard?

For those voting to ask Harry for information, you should keep in mind that the feds who kidnapped him with plans for blackmail have absolutely no reason to respect his right to attorney client privilege or general privacy. They're already off the legal reservation, so one more violation of Harry's rights is basically guaranteed at this point.

Also, Harry is not nearly as knowledgeable as Bob about pretty much any magic-related topics you could think of, especially necromancy. He might not have the slightest clue what a Black Feast is, for example, while Bob was probably looking over Kemmler's shoulder when the ritual was devised.

[X] uju32
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I want to talk to Gard.
She's the third person I want to talk to. After we talk to Bob, then Michael.
We could use the backup and any intel she is willing to share.

Furthermore, if Molly or Michael dont kill Kattrin, and she doesnt escape, having a Valkyrie and/or Einherjar to take custody would be great. Plus, if I'm wrong and Alratan is right that this is a Nemesis op, being able to deliver her to Daddy Odin would have all sorts of potential future benefits.

But GM says she needs a phone call and a meeting. So Bob first.
Shouldnt take more than 15-30 minutes to get a Cliff Notes summary from Bob, which is faster than going to federal lockup with Forthill, or trying to arrange a meeting with Gard first.
 
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