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The Lost Primarch Quest

Flagship Name

  • Spirit of Fire

    Votes: 21 47.7%

  • Vigilance

    Votes: 23 52.3%
  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
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jjffjhjf said:
Including ours? I was under the impression our areas didn't really have that to as much of an extent, nor like Vulkan's?
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Your area absolutely allows the various human rights violations that the Imperium does. As does Vulkan, mainly just due to both of you taking cues from the rest of the Imperium.

To the Imperium, good and evil are easy to sum up. Good means you join the Imperium, evil means you don't. Nothing else really matters.

Edit: A part of why it hasn't been seen by Kesar is why would it? There's no reason for him to visit slums, that's not who has any power.
 
jjffjhjf said:
Including ours? I was under the impression our areas didn't really have that to as much of an extent, nor like Vulkan's?
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Kesar is less tolerant of the worst stuff, but this just means we pick fights more often. We got into a really bad compliance before.

For the most part, post Compliance Kesar tries to raise the standards of living, and due to the Mechanicus bankrolled the efforts partially, the Nobility cannot complain without putting not only that at risk but pissing off a Primarch so beloved as Kesar.

Kesar has REALLY good PR. He is right up there with Horus and Sanguinius. Vulkan has less leverage than Kesar in some ways, Kesar's methods are basically enabled by the Mechanicus and his reputation in a lot of ways.
 
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Ontop of that we do truly engage in diplomatic ways to try to bring places in, and it's by this point canon that we actively promote abolitionists within the imperial army in our area and tend to try to assign those that are more progressive any political power in our domain. Look through a lot of the Baldur Omakes. The domain omake sheet also shows something around 50-70% of our worlds added per year tend to come in with none to little conflict. Mostly done through talks or the occasional display of our might via our ships shooting one of theirs down and then coming to terms.
 
Altered said:
Ontop of that we do truly engage in diplomatic ways to try to bring places in, and it's by this point canon that we actively promote abolitionists within the imperial army in our area and tend to try to assign those that are more progressive any political power in our domain. Look through a lot of the Baldur Omakes. The domain omake sheet also shows something around 50-70% of our worlds added per year tend to come in with none to little conflict. Mostly done through talks or the occasional display of our might via our ships shooting one of theirs down and then coming to terms.
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One thing to keep in mind is that having most of your compliances be peaceful does not help here. Mainly as it means the transition is smoother so the people in charge stay in charge.
Crake said:
Kesar is less tolerant of the worst stuff, but this just means we pick fights more often. We got into a really bad compliance before.

For the most part, post Compliance Kesar tries to raise the standards of living, and due to the Mechanicus bankrolled the efforts partially, the Nobility cannot complain without putting not only that at risk but pissing off a Primarch so beloved as Kesar.

Kesar has REALLY good PR. He is right up there with Horus and Sanguinius. Vulkan has less leverage than Kesar in some ways, Kesar's methods are basically enabled by the Mechanicus and his reputation in a lot of ways.
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Kesar does have a habit of improving things, although he is more concerned with improving productivity than standards of living.
 
As much as the Emperor seems not to be concerned about it, and as much as Malcador is trying to prevent it, there are natural faultlines in the Imperium's edifice that leave it primed for a civil war.

Malcador thinks he can band-aid the problem until later, possibly never, and the Emperor doesn't even conceive of a reality that humanity doesn't go along with him due to fucking with his spirit meats.

Either we decide when and how and under what circumstance conflict breaks out (hopefully the Primarchs + Emperor and most of the upper leadership siding with each other versus all the dissenters), or it will just turn into a cluster fuck.
 
jjffjhjf said:
Well then. Sounds like the imperium rather needs a nice strong civil war soon.
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That's debatable, yes some of the stuff the Imperium allows is unforgivably horrible, however the fact remains that the only ones that win if the Imperium falls into a civil war are the Chaos Gods and other horrors that exists in the 40k galaxy.
 
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Jack_Trade said:
That's debatable, yes some of the stuff the Imperium allows is unforgivably horrible, however the fact remains that the only ones that win if the Imperium falls into a civil war are the Chaos Gods and other horrors that exists in the 40k galaxy.
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Ehh, soon is probably a bad word. But we're definitely going to need to fix things eventually. And well, I fully expect Vulkan to succeed and relatively quickly make the rest of the Imperium look bad in productivity. Once that happens, the Mechanicum will follow with all their stuff, and at that point the Vulkan followers will have a rather significant advantage.
 
One of the major problems with a civil war happening now, albeit one we have zero control over, is that it makes it so that most of our enemies can either take a massive breather or gain the advantage. But like I said, we can't control that. We can, technically, escalate the civil war in so many ways that could benefit the Imperium and us in the long run.

It's the problem of geo-politics in this instance. The right moves are somewhat murky or just downright deplorable to consider.
 
The big issue is that war is coming a lot sooner than Malcador thinks. Without chaos corruption fucking with them the primarchs are increasingly unhappy with what they're asked to do and tolerate in the name of the great crusade and many of them can see how much better things would be if they could focus on qualitative improvements more. Not to mention the absolute fuckstorm that was Angron's domain.

That said we can't afford a real civil war so we have to take the wheel of this somehow. Even then we're only considering this because we expect the next/last big catastrophe to be the Blood and Thunder Incursion which is looking to be a containment effort more than fighting a war against another empire, so concentration will be more important than coverage.
 
Good News Emps: You avoided a Chaos-based Heresy for now.

Bad News Emps: in return for a likely Rebellion launched by your most anti-chaos child against you to....literally save You from yourself.
 
@Daemon Hunter Can you advise just what exactly is expected to happen if we go into the Maelstrom a second time without Malc's explicit approval? Along with what we might know is going to happen in terms of "You aren't getting X, Y, and Z."
 
Ruirk said:
@Daemon Hunter Can you advise just what exactly is expected to happen if we go into the Maelstrom a second time without Malc's explicit approval? Along with what we might know is going to happen in terms of "You aren't getting X, Y, and Z."
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That's a somewhat complex question as what Kesar expects will happen and what will actually happen are two different things. For Kesar, he expects Malcador to do something to limit his influence as well as something to ensure he doesn't upend his plans further. As for the Maelstrom, he knows he isn't going to get much out of it considering it was intended for Vulkan. He isn't going to get the planets, he isn't going to get the loot, and a part of him wonders if he'll have to supply the guardsmen for it. He does expect that he will be completely in charge, but as mentioned, what Kesar expects and what will occur are rather different.
 
[] "Perhaps not, but making you choose between us would hurt me more." - Omegon will tell Malcador about your plans.

I would say this as I would think with this Malcador would be able prepare to have kesars actions be more hush hush to the wider Imperium. As I would think that these actions would be more for the Emperor in letting him know that things needed to be changed because if a great number of his sons are in protest then.

But if there would be a write in that would be more focused on maybe saying to Omegon to like maybe do some preparation so that the news of what would be happening wouldn't spread far or wide into the empire, and then telling Malcador close to the date that walk out would happen.

Edit: changed vote.

[X] Write in: Write a letter for Omegon to read and take to Malcador (you know he will and would be a bit insulted if he didn't). Kesar will detail his intended goals and hopes for what he is planning, acknowledging that this will most likely cost him at the very least Malcador's trust in Kesar and far more besides. Kesar details what he hopes to accomplish and why, and only hopes that in time Malcador will come to forgive him, even if the Sigilite will not be able to rely on Kesar any more
 
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Daemon Hunter said:
That's a somewhat complex question as what Kesar expects will happen and what will actually happen are two different things.
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This is basically the comment I made on Discord about how you are now limiting our knowledge of what Malc might or might not do in regard to us because we are now outside the circle of trust. :p

Not punishing us in any mechanical sense, just won't get as many straight answers now.
 
Ruirk said:
This is basically the comment I made on Discord about how you are now limiting our knowledge of what Malc might or might not do in regard to us because we are now outside the circle of trust. :p

Not punishing us in any mechanical sense, just won't get as many straight answers now.
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Malcador is going to start keeping more secrets from you now. :p
 
[X] "Maybe, but I trust you to do what is right." - Omegon will decide on what to do on his own.

The matther this serious needs to be done with the faith of one's own. He's a Primarch, this would better for him in long run.
 
[x] "Perhaps not, but making you choose between us would hurt me more." - Omegon will tell Malcador about your plans.

[X] Write in: Write a letter for Omegon to read and take to Malcador (you know he will and would be a bit insulted if he didn't). Kesar will detail his intended goals and hopes for what he is planning, acknowledging that this will most likely cost him at the very least Malcador's trust in Kesar and far more besides. Kesar details what he hopes to accomplish and why, and only hopes that in time Malcador will come to forgive him, even if the Sigilite will not be able to rely on Kesar any more...
 
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[X] "Maybe, but I trust you to do what is right." - Omegon will decide on what to do on his own.
[X] Write in: Write a letter for Omegon to read and take to Malcador (you know he will and would be a bit insulted if he didn't). Kesar will detail his intended goals and hopes for what he is planning, acknowledging that this will most likely cost him at the very least Malcador's trust in Kesar and far more besides. Kesar details what he hopes to accomplish and why, and only hopes that in time Malcador will come to forgive him, even if the Sigilite will not be able to rely on Kesar any more...

In this case, I leave it up to our bro. Whatever he decides I'm sure will be ultimately for the best
 
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@Daemon Hunter A possible suggestion for Kesar in this situation. Can we maybe write a thoroughly detailed letter explaining why we are doing this to Malc, and give it to Omegon for when he leaves?

This doesn't resolve anything, but it might make for a good step as a means of allowing Kesar to claim that he took steps to reach out to Malc after being "advised" on the situation by Omegon.
 
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