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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
We didnt buy the Denarians as an Enemy Background so that we could give them freebies on information either.

Only Anduriel can hear secrets spoken in shadow, which means only those working directly with Nicky know about Molly right now, assuming that Nicky told them.
And most of them dont work with Nicky, except on special occasions; last time, only four or five Denarians were in Chicago.

Going out openly means they ALL know.
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Still, I think Reputation is better than secrecy for us.

You are right that we are not great yet, but we are no easy kill either and our power will grow very quickly by the standards of mortals who take years of apprenticeship to become good at something, or by the standards of most supernatural creatures who start with a powerset and then only get better at using it, but only grow actually stronger over the course of decades and centuries.

We are a big deal soon enough, might as well look badass.
And by the time we make our own Hell enough big players should know us that we get a chance to become part of the Unseelie Accords.
Impressing supernatural factions is vital for that goal.
 
I assume that the Denarians had an emergency meeting the moment, they even had a hint of an exalted being free. Exalted are all hands on deck problem, as an exalted killing one of them, or worse redeeming them is an real threat.
 
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Again, I will remind people that secrets are valuable in this setting.

Dresden still doesnt know that Ebenezer is his grandfather; its a secret that was kept for his protection, and when it leaked, it resulted in the kidnap of his daughter so that their enemies could use the child as a vector for a bloodline curse aimed at McCoy.
Ebenezer still doesnt know that Thomas Raith is his grandchild either.

Information is currency here. You shouldnt be giving it away without an actual plan.
Valkhir said:
Yes, and the Intimacy is Love/Resentment.
There is love, but its not untainted. Especially right now.

Emotional and people who are emotionally hurt...may not act or think rationally.
Molly probably could if she wanted with WP9 and Int 4. But WP 9 may also just make her dig in.
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Yes people are complicated.
The point made is that Molly's newborn facility at making stuff is not one of the flashpoints of their relationship
And trying to make it so is counter intuitive.

Artemis1992 said:
Still, I think Reputation is better than secrecy for us.

You are right that we are not great yet, but we are no easy kill either and our power will grow very quickly by the standards of mortals who take years of apprenticeship to become good at something, or by the standards of most supernatural creatures who start with a powerset and then only get better at using it, but only grow actually stronger over the course of decades and centuries.

We are a big deal soon enough, might as well look badass.
And by the time we make our own Hell enough big players should know us that we get a chance to become part of the Unseelie Accords.
Impressing supernatural factions is vital for that goal.
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You do realize that this leads to stuff like Nicodemus et al having a dossier of Infernal charms and abilities IC before we do?
And possibly selling it to the Red Court and every antagonist who we might run into just to fuck us and Michael over on general principles?

The typical Denarian is the host of an angel, one to whom Infernals are not news.
There's a good chance he, or at least Anduriel, has seen every standard Infernal charm and anima ability before, and knows how to counter them at need.

Im getting the vibes that you are not taking the Dresdenverse threat landscape seriously enough, not if your priorities are looking badass instead of Not Dying.
Impressing supernatural factions gets teams of heavyhitters dropped on you.
 
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uju32 said:
You do realize that this leads to stuff like Nicodemus et al having a dossier of Infernal charms and abilities IC before we do?
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If Nicodemus hears all things through shadow because of his angel occupant, its very much possible that its already too late, in which case we should just accelerate our rate of conflict, deeds and thus EXP.

We haven't been shy of talking about what we know, and the alley where we fought the Outsiders and vampires was also shadowed...along with a lot of places.

In this case, we can't win the information game, so the only thing we can try is going forward.
 
uju32 said:
You are very mistaken.

Charity is one of Molly's 3 Intimacies. The woman went to Arctis Tor for her.
Do not mistake the fact that the two of them do not agree about lifestyle choices for an assumption that Molly thinks her mother would resent her for making good armor.
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I don't think Molly would expect Charity to resent her. I think Molly would expect her to feel guilty.
 
Modus_Tollens said:
I mean, seriously, in our profession this is the business suit. It shows a proper degree of professionalism, evidence that we aren't just some fuck being carted around for bring-your-daughter-to-work-day.
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Note how Harry, when on Warden business, doesn't walk around the streets in full body armour. Neither does Michael, or the other Knights of the Cross

It's really, really not our business suit. Amongst Dresden-verse supernaturals, your business suit is a literal business suit, as seen by the multiple times we've seen the various supernatural powers wear them.

Openly wearing armour on the streets isn't professionalism, it's the opposite.

Valkhir said:
If Nicodemus hears all things through shadow because of his angel occupant, its very much possible that its already too late, in which case we should just accelerate our rate of conflict, deeds and thus EXP.

We haven't been shy of talking about what we know, and the alley where we fought the Outsiders and vampires was also shadowed...along with a lot of places.

In this case, we can't win the information game, so the only thing we can try is going forward.
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Nicomedeus is only one of a very large number of enemies we'll have. Why give them free information?
 
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[X] Just go in your Sunday best, that'll confuse them

Genuinely baffled by "let's make concealable armour" followed by Michael the Five-Dot Mentor saying "better your opponent will not know you are wearing armor until they try to hit you." ...followed by "let's wear our armour openly." Are we-the-thread actually that stupid?
 
Alratan said:
Openly wearing armour on the streets isn't professionalism, it's the opposite.
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To the vast majority of people, it won't seem like armor at all. Most people are going to see a tall, well built girl in a shiny metallic bodysuit. As DP described it in the chapter, it doesn't actually resemble chainmail, instead seeming like cloth. When you've got supernatural tools and skills enhanced by Exalt BS, you can make the rings of your chainmail so small they don't even seem like rings, all while maintaining the armor's protective properties.

Most people are going to see the armor and just roll their eyes and think "Kids these days..."
 
Valkhir said:
If Nicodemus hears all things through shadow because of his angel occupant, its very much possible that its already too late, in which case we should just accelerate our rate of conflict, deeds and thus EXP.

We haven't been shy of talking about what we know, and the alley where we fought the Outsiders and vampires was also shadowed...along with a lot of places.

In this case, we can't win the information game, so the only thing we can try is going forward.
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1)Nicodemus Archleone CAN listen through shadow.
Nicodemus Archleone is NOT always listening through shadow. Anduriel his head angel has a limited ability to multitask, and lots of enemies and targets to pay attention to; he isnt listening to you 24/7.

Furthermore, a bunch of places and people are shielded against eavesdropping.
Like the home of a Knight, and his shadow.
Else Nicodemus would never be surprised.

2)Denarians do not often work together.
Nicodemus works with a small group of four to six most of the time.

The Denarians do not have all that much information at the best of times.
Unless you go out volunteering it to them.
Whats the point of crafting magic armor designed to be hidden under clothes then flaunting it?
Goldfish said:
I don't think Molly would expect Charity to resent her. I think Molly would expect her to feel guilty.
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For not being able to make magical-quality armor at 10x the speed of the best human craftsmen?
Yeah, not buying it.
 
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I think not showing off is pretty weird here.

We are a 17-year old girl and a princess of hell and a celestial Exalted!
If we can't act like handgranate at a gala-event, we are not playing this to the max.

Edit: I'm having fun with this and I want Molly to have fun with this, that's the priority.
 
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uju32 said:
For not being able to make magical-quality armor at 10x the speed of the best human craftsmen?
Yeah, not buying it.
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I guess we're just operating on very different wavelengths here.

Like I already said, it's obvious that Charity couldn't have hoped to actually craft her a set of armor this quickly. The guilt trip angle comes from the fact that she didn't even try, when she knew her daughter might soon be in dangerous situations where armor could be very helpful.

Admittedly, I never had an inner 17-year old girl to channel here, but I think the assumption holds up.
 
Goldfish said:
To the vast majority of people, it won't seem like armor at all. Most people are going to see a tall, well built girl in a shiny metallic bodysuit. As DP described it in the chapter, it doesn't actually resemble chainmail, instead seeming like cloth. When you've got supernatural tools and skills enhanced by Exalt BS, you can make the rings of your chainmail so small they don't even seem like rings, all while maintaining the armor's protective properties.

Most people are going to see the armor and just roll their eyes and think "Kids these days..."
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The people who are going to shoot or stab or slash you? Will definitely recognize it as armor.
And we specifically designed it to be hidden under clothes so that noone would be warned that we had armor and try to default to other things, like magic or gas or poison.

So flaunting it? Basically giving all that away to no obvious benefit.
Artemis1992 said:
I think not showing off is pretty weird here.

We are a 17-year old girl and a princess of hell and a celestial Exalted!
If we can't act like handgranate at a gala-event, we are not playing this to the max.

Edit: I'm having fun with this and I want Molly to have fun with this, that's the priority.
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Its been less than a week since Molly got dragged into the heart of Winter and hung off an ice tree for the amusement of fetches.
Less than a week since she had to pick up her mother and run after the woman got KO'd by agents of Winter.
Less than a week since her brother got his ass beat during a home invasion.

Magic is life, magic is fundamental to who she is.
But I put it to you that Molly's priorities at her first underworld meetup are not showing off and having fun.
This isnt a debutante's ball.

EDIT Not to mention that she has a demonic guide in her head.
 
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uju32 said:
The people who are going to shoot or stab or slash you? Will definitely recognize it as armor.
And we specifically designed it to be hidden under clothes so that noone would be warned that we had armor and try to default to other things, like magic or gas or poison.
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Ultimatly the armor is a tiny difference.
It won't protect us from guns. People will still try to shoot or stab us, knowing that a very light armor like this doesn't do much.

It's one die against the three we get normally, from being an Exalted who can soak any kind of damage.

I want it to impress people by its craftmenship and the possibly-magical intimidation-factor.
In it's function as armor it is not too serious and mooks who would be stupid enough to shoot the unknown factor Molly are also stupid enough to shoot the slightly armored unknown factor Molly.

uju32 said:
Magic is life, magic is fundamental to who she is.
But I put it to you that Molly's priorities at her first underworld meetup are not showing off and having fun.
This isnt a debutante's ball.
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It kinda is.

It is out first outing in the local underworld and it's very much natural to want to look your best for it.
People will later associate you with that look after all.
That's also why I would be voting for the punk-look if we hadn't made the cool armor.
I want to make an impression and I want it to be one that is very Molly, not some disguise.
 
Suddenly going from zero to eleven, Exalt style, is probably significantly more impressive than trying too hard and trying to show off.

We want respect rather than eye rolling.
 
DragonParadox said:
The demonic guide wants what she wants, but if you pushed him he would say... make them bow before your glorious might Righteous Tyrant of the Age-To-Come. Don't expect him to advise hiding your (hell-) light under a bushel.
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Surely he's pretty agnostic about whether to shock and awe them after taking them by surprise or whether to go all out from the get go?
 
Artemis1992 said:
Okay seriously, if you want to hide the armor that's one thing, but additional to that you want to look boring?

We are the heir of these very fine people:
Do they look like they approve of bland clothing?
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Why would you imagine that Molly's Sunday best is boring and bland?

It may not fit her current tastes, but as Charity is a very skilled craftswoman, there's a better than average chance that it's actually beautifully made and extremely elegant, if probably very modest,
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Ultimatly the armor is a tiny difference.
It won't protect us from guns. People will still try to shoot or stab us, knowing that a very light armor like this doesn't do much.

It's one die against the three we get normally, from being an Exalted who can soak any kind of damage.

I want it to impress people by its craftmenship and the possibly-magical intimidation-factor.
In it's function as armor it is not too serious and mooks who would be stupid enough to shoot the unknown factor Molly are also stupid enough to shoot the slightly armored unknown factor Molly.
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You are mistaken.
Mechanically, right now Molly's Soak is 4 with her armor. IIRC, thats enough to soak getting hit by a light pistol or a SMG's 4L. And mortals cant soak damage at all without armor.

With no visible armor, and no obvious nonhuman features, any attacker will assume that claw and sword and pistol is enough.
With obvious armor they break out the longarms, assault rifles, shotties and exotics.

Dresden enjoys the same advantage in the stories from wearing an enchanted trenchcoat; most of his enemies never realize its armor that can stop assault rifle fire, especially since he can and does throw up shields as well.
There are big advantages.
Artemis1992 said:
It kinda is.
It is out first outing in the local underworld and it's very much natural to want to look your best for it.
People will later associate you with that look after all.

That's also why I would be voting for the punk-look if we hadn't made the cool armor.
I want to make an impression and I want it to be one that is very Molly, not some disguise.
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No it isnt.

There are actual social occasions in the Dresdenverse where looking your best matters.
Michael went to one in Grave Peril at Red Court vampire Bianca St Clair's place with Dresden and Mavra the Black Court vampire and the Leanansidhe of the Winter Court and Ferrovax the Dragon and Thomas Raith of the White Court.

Dresden goes to social things in the White Council and the Winter Court and Summer Court.

A handover? Is Business.
Especially when you are pulling security and there is a nonzero chance of violence breaking out.

Besides, I will remind you that images are not immutable.
Dresden's reputation started as the PI with the marketing gimmick of calling himself a wizard, and is now the one man magical wrecking ball of Chicago.
 
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