Fire Emblem: Last of the Manakete

[X] Pack light, as Robin suggested. You won't be able to bring as much, but it'll make movement somewhat easier. (Top four choices will be taken)

[X] Extra money. Phoebe suggests that, if you do end up needing to get information or supplies from someone while away from Agrithe, having a good store of money will be useful. You're not quite sure how this "money" works, but you're sure Robin does.
[X] Thunder's Cry: While not as powerful as your dragon form, Thunder's Cry has gotten you out of some sticky situations. You also know exactly how to use it.
[X] A bigger map. You still have the scroll Archduke Letoro gave you, and it looks very useful. However, if you're going to be searching, it might be a good idea to dig out a bigger, more detailed map to find your way.
[X] Scrolls: Artemis has offered to keep your things from home safe, but you still want to keep learning about your heritage. Each scroll counts as an item. (Dragon Within)

[X] Pack light, as Robin suggested. You won't be able to bring as much, but it'll make movement somewhat easier. (Top four choices will be taken)


[X] Extra money. Phoebe suggests that, if you do end up needing to get information or supplies from someone while away from Agrithe, having a good store of money will be useful. You're not quite sure how this "money" works, but you're sure Robin does.
[X] Extra Medical Supplies: While nobody got seriously hurt on your first trip, this time you'll be going straight towards the bad guys. Bringing some extra healing herbs might be a good idea if you get into a fight.
[X] Extra Food: While you'll certainly take some, bringing more might make things easier. Or at least make it so Robin doesn't have to do as much work.
[X] Thunder's Cry: While not as powerful as your dragon form, Thunder's Cry has gotten you out of some sticky situations. You also know exactly how to use it.

Finally caught up, and I'm incredibly curious about everybody's growth rates, especially Ryza's (who I'm guessing has growths like Lilina; that is, phenomenal Mag at the cost of subpar growths in everything else) and Phoebe (was she the Franz to Selena's Seth, or just straight up Narron*?).

*In BigKlingy's LP of TearRing Saga, his unit bios for Narron, Raffin, and Zieg played God-Shattering Star in the background for a reason (can't remember if it played for Sasha as well, given that she's only really as good as the other Pegasus Knights, which is still good since TRS uses Thracia's Mag = Res, and Pegasus Knights can use swords, which means they can get the most mileage out of Levin Swords).

[X] Pack light, as Robin suggested. You won't be able to bring as much, but it'll make movement somewhat easier. (Top four choices will be taken)

[X] Extra money. Phoebe suggests that, if you do end up needing to get information or supplies from someone while away from Agrithe, having a good store of money will be useful. You're not quite sure how this "money" works, but you're sure Robin does.
[X] Thunder's Cry: While not as powerful as your dragon form, Thunder's Cry has gotten you out of some sticky situations. You also know exactly how to use it.
[X] A bigger map. You still have the scroll Archduke Letoro gave you, and it looks very useful. However, if you're going to be searching, it might be a good idea to dig out a bigger, more detailed map to find your way.
[X] Extra Food: While you'll certainly take some, bringing more might make things easier. Or at least make it so Robin doesn't have to do as much work.

Sir_Braazmiir said:

Finally caught up, and I'm incredibly curious about everybody's growth rates, especially Ryza's (who I'm guessing has growths like Lilina; that is, phenomenal Mag at the cost of subpar growths in everything else) and Phoebe (was she the Franz to Selena's Seth, or just straight up Narron*?).

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I'm not really sure if we can make any guesses about Phoebe since we haven't actually seen her in action yet. For Ryza though, IIRC her mother may have been a White dragon—don't quote me on that—so I'm guessing her stat spread would be pretty similar to Micaiah's, as in lots of Magic, Resistance, and Luck, and middling to poor everything else. Though hopefully with at least decent speed, even if that might not matter if our heart-form Defense is bad enough that most physical attacks will one-shot us by the midgame (though considering the usual non-boosted manakete stats, they might just one-shot us now anyway). Considering the new quest mechanics however, I doubt any of that will really matter.

That being said, I imagine Ryza's overall game plan is pretty similar to Micaiah's. She'll primarily want to target melee-focused classes from a distance, as attacking any ranged physical classes has her risk taking a counter that will leave her either at death's door or just dead, period. In fact, we'll ideally want to build her in a way that lets her stay at a safe distance from the front lines at all times, so we'd best start praying that Siege spells and Physic exist here. If we're fortunate, we may get the opportunity to use Ryza as a Res-tank, but a verdict on that will have to wait unit we actually see how well she deals with magic attacks.

…now I can't help but feel like we've pigeonholed ourselves into eventually becoming a staff-bot. A staff-bot that can turn into a dragon, but a staff-bot nonetheless. Honestly, I feel like I really should've expected this, considering this is SV and all.

Anyway. The way I see it, Ryza's two biggest counters while she's in her heart-form are Pegasus Knights and Archers. Pegasus Knights are natural mage slayers thanks to their good Resistance and Ryza isn't particularly skilled at the magic type they're weak to, so if one gets close enough to her, that's practically game over as they will strike twice, and they will likely deal enough damage to kill thanks to Ryza's physical squishiness.
Archers on the other hand will likely prove just as dangerous thanks to Ryza's flying unit status making her weak to bows. We might have to work on training Ryza's battlefield awareness sometime soon, lest we end up getting sniped by a cheeky dick waffle from deep left field when we least expect.
To take this further, we will also need to be very, VERY careful if we get even the slightest hint of the enemy deciding to deploy Ballistae, as we will probably be the single juiciest target they will ever get. I mean, come on, we're a flying mage with average-to-poor Speed. Even Pegasus Knights are harder targets than we are.

3-13 Sniper said:

For Ryza though, IIRC her mother may have been a White dragon

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She was not, the mixed-color option did not win that vote.

3-13 Sniper said:

In fact, we'll ideally want to build her in a way that lets her stay at a safe distance from the front lines at all times, so we'd best start praying that Siege spells and Physic exist here.

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On one hand, all valid points. On the other hand, Nosferatanking may well salvage our enemy phase if we can manage it


That said though, narrative; anything can reasonably be dangerous to us. Your reasonings may be a bit too gamified to hold true.

Yeah, Fire Emblem mechanics don't lend themselves to narrative play. At all.

The more RNG-heavy a system is, the harder it becomes to write a plausible story around the dice rolls.

3-13 Sniper said:

now I can't help but feel like we've pigeonholed ourselves into eventually becoming a staff-bot. A staff-bot that can turn into a dragon, but a staff-bot nonetheless. Honestly, I feel like I really should've expected this, considering this is SV and all.

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And now I remember we should probably study wind to get Warp and Rescue.

Because we could try come up with a brilliant plan to rescue Sypha...

OR WE COULD JUST USE THE WARP/RESCUE SPELL.

LTC and Bismix memes aside, Warp and Rescue are incredibly good spells to have. Plus Rescue probably would have trivialized this mission.

Sir_Braazmiir said:

And now I remember we should probably study wind to get Warp and Rescue.

Because we could try come up with a brilliant plan to rescue Sypha...

OR WE COULD JUST USE THE WARP/RESCUE SPELL.

LTC and Bismix memes aside, Warp and Rescue are incredibly good spells to have. Plus Rescue probably would have trivialized this mission.

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I'm afraid it'd be a little unrealistic to grind to two of the highest level Green spells in the time it should hopefully take to save Sypha.

Yeah, there's probably a bunch of really good options spread across all the magic types and no realistic way to get all of them. Such is life.

[X] Pack light, as Robin suggested. You won't be able to bring as much, but it'll make movement somewhat easier. (Top four choices will be taken)

[X] Thunder's Cry: While not as powerful as your dragon form, Thunder's Cry has gotten you out of some sticky situations. You also know exactly how to use it.
[X] A bigger map. You still have the scroll Archduke Letoro gave you, and it looks very useful. However, if you're going to be searching, it might be a good idea to dig out a bigger, more detailed map to find your way.
[X] Extra Food: While you'll certainly take some, bringing more might make things easier. Or at least make it so Robin doesn't have to do as much work.
[X] Extra Medical Supplies: While nobody got seriously hurt on your first trip, this time you'll be going straight towards the bad guys. Bringing some extra healing herbs might be a good idea if you get into a fight.

Sir_Braazmiir said:

And now I remember we should probably study wind to get Warp and Rescue.

Because we could try come up with a brilliant plan to rescue Sypha...

OR WE COULD JUST USE THE WARP/RESCUE SPELL.

LTC and Bismix memes aside, Warp and Rescue are incredibly good spells to have. Plus Rescue probably would have trivialized this mission.

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Depending on if we could learn it in a reasonable amount of time and how its Fire Emblem mechanics translate into Quest realities. (Like, how far is one "tile"? Do we need to be able to see Sypha to Rescue her?)

Also, we'd probably need an actual Rescue staff, and they're one of the rarer staves—aside from Awakening and Three Houses, no game in the series lets you get more than four, with half of them only having one in the entire game.

Hmm. It probably would have been better to do this as a plan vote. Things that cover the same niches won together, this way. Oh well, perhaps next time, unless the QM wants to redo it.

Alright, counting the repeated votes because of the [X] and -[X] distinction, the results should be as follows:

Extra food - 21
Extra money - 20
Thunder's cry - 20
A bigger map - 19
Extra medical supplies - 14
Dragon Within scroll - 11
Practical Magic scroll - 4
Tome - 4

Everyone voted for packing light, nobody voted for packing normally.

GreatWyrmGold said:

Depending on if we could learn it in a reasonable amount of time and how its Fire Emblem mechanics translate into Quest realities. (Like, how far is one "tile"? Do we need to be able to see Sypha to Rescue her?)

Also, we'd probably need an actual Rescue staff, and they're one of the rarer staves—aside from Awakening and Three Houses, no game in the series lets you get more than four, with half of them only having one in the entire game.

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That's the problem. They're either B or A rank, when our Wind skill is only rank E (assuming skill ranks work like 3 Houses, where nobody gets any spells until Rank D Reason/Faith (black/white magic, respectively)).

Sir_Braazmiir said:

That's the problem. They're either B or A rank, when our Wind skill is only rank E (assuming skill ranks work like 3 Houses, where nobody gets any spells until Rank D Reason/Faith (black/white magic, respectively)).

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Wiki says Heal is an E-rank staff in every game except Genealogy of the Holy War, including Three Houses, and it seems to be the only one (aside from some booby-prize staves in Awakening).

Not that I'm sure what relevance that has to your point, when I'm not sure what your point is. But I'm pretty sure that wind magic not being staves is a mark against it.

GreatWyrmGold said:

Wiki says Heal is an E-rank staff in every game except Genealogy of the Holy War, including Three Houses, and it seems to be the only one (aside from some booby-prize staves in Awakening).

Not that I'm sure what relevance that has to your point, when I'm not sure what your point is. But I'm pretty sure that wind magic not being staves is a mark against it.

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Hang on, let me check what the scrolls said.

Found it.

SoaringHawk218 said:

Every day, Green manakete fly on air currents of their own making, reach speeds unattainable by wing alone, and even twist space in such a way that they can travel leagues in a single step or yank a distant friend out of harm's way with a flick of the wrist.

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So it's actually called Green, not Wind. Regardless, the bolded part implies Warp and Rescue are Green spells like Wind (and I presume Elwind, Arcwind, Tornado, Blizzard, and all the -calibur spells).
And I know from my experience playing 3 Houses (and checking Serenes Forest to confirm) that absolutely none of the playable cast gets any spells at E rank (earliest is Rhea learning Fire at E+).

So yes, if we had focused on Green instead of White back in Castle Legerius, we would have closer to learning Warp/Rescue (whichever is the lower rank). Alas, that was before I started watching, and Heal is hella useful anyways, but my point stands.

By that same logic, red magic would cover mind-altering staves like Berserk...

SoaringHawk218 said:

Beyond simply conjuring firestorms, Red magic can whip up storms of emotion. Feelings of bravery, anger, fear, and countless others can be stoked by a talented Red manakete, either helping their friends find emotional balance or throwing their enemies into chaos, driven by emotions they cannot control or overcome.

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...while black magic would cover mind-altering staves like Berserk.

SoaringHawk218 said:

As a spiritual magic, Black magic is the equal and opposite of White magic. Where the light will clarify, the shadows will distort. Where the light will heal, the shadow will hinder. Foes will find their minds clouded by exhaustion, tormented by illusory terrors, and slowed by the limitations of their own mind.

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It's possible that certain staves are tied to specific categories of magic. It's also possible that it works like it does in most Fire Emblem games, where staves and tomes are distinct skills learned by different classes. And it's also possible that it works like in Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia, where all "staves" are white magic.

Until we learn something about how staves work in this system/continuity/region, I'm gonna assume that staves work like they do in most FE games.

GreatWyrmGold said:

By that same logic, red magic would cover mind-altering staves like Berserk...

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GreatWyrmGold said:

...while black magic would cover mind-altering staves like Berserk.

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I think there's an error here somewhere.

SoaringHawk218 said:

So the difference between staves and tomes is a human construct, manakete didn't see any difference in the magic. For humans, it's more of a cultural thing, though there are some technical differences that Artemis wouldn't be able to explain (translation, I haven't made them up yet.)

As for which staves attach to which schools, here's a rough rundown.

Red/Fire: Beserk, Hammerne, Torch, Strength, Defense (both the extremes of emotion and the concept of fire-as-tool-of-creation)

Yellow/Thunder: Magic Up, Barrier, Silence, Anew/Dance (Affecting magic for good and ill, as well as energizing allies)

Green/Wind: Warp, Rescue, Rewarp, Speed (Basically, if it involves moving something, that's green magic's purview)

White/Light: All healing, Restore, (Self-explanatory)

Black/Dark: Sleep, Fear, Slow, Watch (A combination of debuffs that don't fit neatly into one or more of the other schools as well as perceiving hidden things)

There are others not on this list, but these are the big ones that I'd already divided up.

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If you'll entertain a fundamental question, how is the way staff/tome magic works different from the way manakete magic works? We've gotten a little bit so far, about how Manaketes use will, practice, and sometimes ritual to direct their inner magic into the shape they desire, but I don't think the way tomes and staves enable humans to do magic has been explained. I'm guessing that the staff/tome itself serves as a source of magic for the user to focus, but I'm unclear on where that magic comes from.

TaliesinSkye said:

If you'll entertain a fundamental question, how is the way staff/tome magic works different from the way manakete magic works? We've gotten a little bit so far, about how Manaketes use will, practice, and sometimes ritual to direct their inner magic into the shape they desire, but I don't think the way tomes and staves enable humans to do magic has been explained. I'm guessing that the staff/tome itself serves as a source of magic for the user to focus, but I'm unclear on where that magic comes from.

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So, there are some spoilers in this, so I'll put it in a spoiler tab in case people don't want to know until Ryza finds out.

Ah, I was afraid that was the case, but it makes altogether too much sense.

…Spirit Dust is a much more morally complicated item on this continent, isn't it?