Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

occipitallobe · Oct 2, 2020

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Lampshade · Aug 14, 2021

TehChron said:
Clearly we're seeing different things, and I don't have any idea what it is you're missing.

Sending the troops South is the carrot, we discourage penalties for attacking Jingshen through political means and the threat of losing benefits.

Recalling them home is the stick, after showing how effective our troops are at defense, good luck getting through them all the way to the other side of the desert while your back yard is on fire.

You keep piling on the benefits of the carrot, but I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about how it compares to the stick.

TehChron · Aug 14, 2021

Lampshade said:
You keep piling on the benefits of the carrot, but I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about how it compares to the stick.

...

TehChron said:
Er...If the logic thats literally spelled out in the plan

TehChron said:
--"Make no mistake: That the Righteous Path will be unamused at our plans and actions is a supreme understatement. Thus, it is critical that in order to consolidate our gains - and retain even a fraction of what we have spent much blood and treasure building with them - it is imperative that we continue to ingratiate ourselves with the Righteous Powers. Our expertise in defeating the Abyssal Bees and Old Cannibal will be invaluable, even if the cost is providing the Joyful Blacksmiths an opportunity to analyze our Arraycraft. This is fine. When the war against the Jingshen is prosecuted in its entirety, those same Legions will also present a dire threat of their own to the Verdant South. What Righteous Path would dare risk a Thousand Song in the heart of their territory, when Old Cannibal and his three nascents wait in the wings to take advantage?"

I have no idea what is going through your head, sorry.

The most generous interpretation I can come up with is that you appear to have some kind of reading comprehension impediment or disability, and considering that possibility it would be rude and uncalled for to continue this discussion further when you are clearly having such difficulties.

Once again, I apologize.

I hope that isn't the case, and wish you all the best.

mastigos · Aug 14, 2021

Garlak said:
I wonder if in the future, if we spend Clan actions and spend money on it, and do well on Missions to integrate Jingshen people and lands and infrastructure and organizations, if we'd be able to add the "Merchants" secondary profession to our Clans assets and strength?

Personally, I'm just hoping that after this, having three nascents means we can finally have our teaching-specced nascent start lecturing.
Especially because I suspect that he could even lecture the other two nascents

TehChron · Aug 14, 2021

mastigos said:
Personally, I'm just hoping that after this, having three nascents means we can finally have our teaching-specced nascent start lecturing.

What do you mean?

We've done it at least twice already so far.

GlassOlive · Aug 14, 2021

TehChron said:
...

I have no idea what is going through your head, sorry.

The most generous interpretation I can come up with is that you appear to have some kind of reading comprehension impediment or disability, and considering that possibility it would be rude and uncalled for to continue this discussion further when you are clearly having such difficulties.

Once again, I apologize.

I hope that isn't the case, and wish you all the best.

This is super rude and apologizing doesn't really make it better.

I believe Lampshade is saying that you have given the benefits of one approach, but you haven't acknowledged or analyzed the benefits of the other approach and how they compare - as Insane pointed out, there are tradeoffs.

Meanwhile, Lampshade, I think TehChron is saying he views the benefits of sending the legions as so overwhelming that he doesn't need to analyze the other option.

TehChron · Aug 14, 2021

GlassOlive said:
I believe Lampshade is saying that you have given the benefits of one approach, but you haven't acknowledged or analyzed the benefits of the other approach and how they compare - as Insane pointed out, there are tradeoffs.

I'm not going to analyze the benefits of another approach unless I'm sold on why they're superior to the gameplan I've been formulating for months.

I have to parcel out my time somehow, and he's clearly ignoring my requests for clarification on his stance.

So either he's being deliberately obtuse or he can't help it. The latter assumption is the only one that assumes good faith. So rude or not, that conclusion was inevitable. I'm not trying to assume that everyone is arguing in bad faith here.

Olivebirdy · Aug 14, 2021

no. said:
Who cares if they die? Genuinely, who cares? Those troops are a resource, and sending them out is how we spend that resource. Do you think we're in a position where we can afford to be humanitarian?

They're our best defensive units. In the case they do get killed, it'd be because RP is moving against us. Which is exactly when we'd most need them.

SPS is likely to still need help with the Maze or the South next turn, do we really need to help them end the war this turn? NDA might be able to pull off a turnabout next turn. The war isn't completely over yet if we don't give RP the slack they need to finish the job.

Miho Chan · Aug 14, 2021

stop: rule 3

TehChron said:
I have no idea what is going through your head, sorry.

The most generous interpretation I can come up with is that you appear to have some kind of reading comprehension impediment or disability, and considering that possibility it would be rude and uncalled for to continue this discussion further when you are clearly having such difficulties.

Once again, I apologize.

I hope that isn't the case, and wish you all the best.

The User @TehChron has infracted for a Rule 3 Violation. Calling another user mentally disabled because they ask for clarification on an argument is both deeply uncivil and not conducive to a civil debate. As such, the user infracted has been removed from the thread for 72 hours and issued infraction points.

Olivebirdy · Aug 14, 2021

occipitallobe said:
"We are at all moments a heartbeat away from losing, and we cannot afford to lose yet. By distracting and forcing the Righteous Path into various other fronts, we can buy more time. After that, there is only one card to play, but..."

His voice trailed off.

"Well. When it is played, you will know. In the meantime, the front here can collapse for all I care."

occipitallobe said:
"Things are falling apart, and if measures are not taken we will not reach the end."

She looked at him.

"The end?"

He smiled.

"I am threading the eye of a needle, Ai'er. I am standing on a sinking ship aflame, standing in the last place of safety as I attempt to finish a great work left before me. But the ship is sinking, and time is rapidly running out. We must buy a little more time and space."

I really want to give him a little more time and space. I think he'll be able to somehow turn this around. He still hasn't used his treasure that doubles himself at full power. We're allowed to use information gotten from these interludes.

The war isn't over yet, Altar Lord hasn't lost yet. He, for some reason, is willing to lose that front.

The worse things become for RP, the more they'll need our help. The more concessions they'll be willing to give us. The less likely they are to attack us.

Don't get me wrong, even just being an observer on a Righteous council would be great for our ability to talk to other sects, it's a pretty good deal. But it's not worth letting them take Altar Lord out of the game.

I disagree, too, that our array masters would be a knife at anyone's back. They would only be ~~seven~~ several Legions, ~~seven~~ several Core cultivators. Focused on defense, not attack. Sure, they could take a fortress and hold it against anyone in their weight class. And? They've got no power projection. And they're only defensively good in their weight class. If it turned out that we actually needed them to act as a knife, either the Bees or RP could send a Nascent to crack them and the other side wouldn't raise a finger to help. They'd each be ridding both sides of a problem. Old Cannibal knows we're his enemy, and RP would know that we've got delusions of knifehood.

Edit: Best case they just leave our dudes stranded there as ablative armor, bait and/or snacks.

no. · Aug 14, 2021

Olivebirdy said:
I really want to give him a little more time and space. I think he'll be able to somehow turn this around. He still hasn't used his treasure that doubles himself at full power. We're allowed to use information gotten from these interludes.

The war isn't over yet, Altar Lord hasn't lost yet. He, for some reason, is willing to lose that front.

The worse things become for RP, the more they'll need our help. The more concessions they'll be willing to give us. The less likely they are to attack us.

Don't get me wrong, even just being an observer on a Righteous council would be great for our ability to talk to other sects, it's a pretty good deal. But it's not worth letting them take Altar Lord out of the game.

I disagree, too, that our array masters would be a knife at anyone's back. They would only be seven Legions, seven Core cultivators. Focused on defense, not attack. Sure, they could take a fortress and hold it against anyone in their weight class. And? They've got no power projection. And they're only defensively good in their weight class. If it turned out that we actually needed them to act as a knife, either the Bees or RP could send a Nascent to crack them and the other side wouldn't raise a finger to help. They'd each be ridding both sides of a problem. Old Cannibal knows we're his enemy, and RP would know that we've got delusions of knifehood.

Edit: Best case they just leave our dudes stranded there as ablative armor, bait and/or snacks.

The war's events and outcome are only important inasmuch as it helps us get away with shit. We've stacked the deck with as many incentives as possible for the SPS to let us conquer the Jingshen, and this action is part of it. If the SPS won't let us do it at this point then they literally never will. Ever.

Us gaining a seat on that council is also a step toward that - because it means the SPS can then kick us off the council as a "punishment", and thus save face despite letting us conquer Jingshen. Despite everything we have done for them this is not an ideal outcome, but it is not so bad that they will go to war with us. We are essentially burning all the trust we've built back to the level it was at the start of the game, in exchange for wiping Jingshen off the map. That's more valuable then being able to wipe them out a little bit faster but with greater risk.

In short - we're cashing out. Both on the friendship building and war-encouraging efforts.

Olivebirdy · Aug 14, 2021

no. said:
The war's events and outcome are only important inasmuch as it helps us get away with shit.

Yes. Allowing Altar Lord the space to do what he needs to do will end up letting us get away with more than the goodwill we'd get from defending the South. Particularly since we can help defend the South next turn, after Old Jingshen is dead and Altar Lord pulls his last trick.

It's not a good idea to let RP finish the war that keeps us safe just so SPS can kick us off the council. It's just not a good tradeoff. They can have us pay money or they can kill some of our cultivators or demand community service instead, it's just not worth letting them win. We can give them some other fig leaf.

If you think we're not going to get to keep observing the council, we're just helping RP for the goodwill. Definitely not as good as the war continuing or Altar Lord somehow making progress against Heaven. If you think we are going to keep our observer status, RP and SPS will take the same retaliation as they would without it, with whatever difference goodwill makes.

I'd prefer they be unable to make more than a token objection because Altar Lord is still kicking than rely on goodwill to lighten their face-saving blow.

Edit: Also, we can continue building up goodwill for as long as they're busy. We don't need to build it up before we attack Jingshen, we need to build it up before we're retaliated against. Nothing stopping us from helping the South after Altar Lord does his thing and after we attack Jingshen, as long as we get it in before they get some slack.

adamashield · Aug 14, 2021

I am, once more, with the go help the SPS and 'friends' faction. that give access to that area for 20 years, allow us to get some information that don't need us to risk golden devils lives (that are spies I mean), allow the 'average' cultivator to see the devils and humanize them in their eyes. and allow for more chances of trade and place to use to cultivate 'cheaper'. Plus lots and lots and lots of mortals lives that GS saved and some of them will remember this after becoming cultivators.

Still I have a positive bias here because, In a IC perceptive, I want the brotherhood to go there once more so they have a better start for the ones that still mortals, have a greater concentration of QI location to them to train, have more people without the blood to be part of the clan/brotherhood (we still need lot of mortals to reach the max number that we can support) and this allow for more omake fuel that 'just' the conflict in the desert.

OCC- I am sure this conflict can take a lot longer and I really don't want those 'neutral' SPS elder cores that are either wounded and/or crazy and other factions deciding to take a side here. Double so for any NS that our enemies could convince to help them for the right price. Like the tree clan.

no. · Aug 14, 2021

Olivebirdy said:
Yes. Allowing Altar Lord the space to do what he needs to do will end up letting us get away with more than the goodwill we'd get from defending the South. Particularly since we can help defend the South next turn, after Old Jingshen is dead and Altar Lord pulls his last trick.

It's not a good idea to let RP finish the war that keeps us safe just so SPS can kick us off the council. It's just not a good tradeoff. They can have us pay money or they can kill some of our cultivators or demand community service instead, it's just not worth letting them win. We can give them some other fig leaf.

If you think we're not going to get to keep observing the council, we're just helping RP for the goodwill. Definitely not as good as the war continuing or Altar Lord somehow making progress against Heaven. If you think we are going to keep our observer status, RP and SPS will take the same retaliation as they would without it, with whatever difference goodwill makes.

I'd prefer they be unable to make more than a token objection because Altar Lord is still kicking than rely on goodwill to lighten their face-saving blow.

Edit: Also, we can continue building up goodwill for as long as they're busy. We don't need to build it up before we attack Jingshen, we need to build it up before we're retaliated against. Nothing stopping us from helping the South after Altar Lord does his thing and after we attack Jingshen, as long as we get it in before they get some slack.

If we cozy up to SPS this turn, that's critical mass. It's the point where the war doesn't matter anymore because even if the SPS miraculously end it in one swoop, they'll overlook us destroying the Jingshen. If we destroy Jingshen and then offer additional help, then it will be too late, and thus not as effective. That is the logic behind sending our dudes.

Besides, the cavalry legion alleviates your fears because it speeds up our invasion somewhat. TehChron's entire plan is optimized to take over Jingshen quickly while still getting away with it.

adamashield · Aug 14, 2021

And to be fair, the real war is going to be a NS one, with at most the cores helping. Unless someone really flex with a heaven defying action once more.

but once more I am really bias here.

Anyway our guys there are many Earth sizes away from what I told (Or I am remembering this wrongly?). anyway I don't see all that preparations moving really fast (less than 20 years, but still not that fast). Plus while the team fighting blood path Is the more experience one. they will only get stronger in a QI rich area. while our enemy(ies) need to burn spirit stones to fuel themselves. burn spirit stones to get favor and etc.

Olivebirdy · Aug 14, 2021

no. said:
If we cozy up to SPS this turn, that's critical mass. It's the point where the war doesn't matter anymore because even if the SPS miraculously end it in one swoop, they'll overlook us destroying the Jingshen.

No offense, but sez who? Where is the boundary beyond which RP will be okay with us destroying Jingshen and why is it specifically after we build them arrays and bringing in Hong Xuan?

If we destroy Jingshen and then offer additional help, then it will be too late, and thus not as effective. That is the logic behind sending our dudes.

How's that? If we kill Old Jingshen and start taking his mines, RP will be quite peeved at us. If we continue being useful, they will be less peeved at us. If they're busy with a war on three fronts, they will have to delay our punishment. If we assist with that war, our punishment will be lessened when they get around to it.

Besides, the cavalry legion alleviates your fears because it speeds up our invasion somewhat. TehChron's entire plan is optimized to take over Jingshen quickly while still getting away with it.

Thank you for the consideration, but I'll admit that the efficiency and speed at which we take hardpoints is my secondary priority. My top priority is giving Altar Lord a little more space. If he gets a little more breathing room, he should be able to do something drastic, finish his great work against Heaven, his life's work, the whole point of his going through Blood Path. He's the last Altar Lord and everything he's done was leading up to this. It's not going to be on the level of rising a stage or two, he's got larger goals than that. My bet is on giving Heaven another wound.

How does that help us? Well, odds are really good that it'll be a hell of a distraction to the Heaven-influenced Righteous Path, and that it'll be something they have to contend with. I'm hoping it will weaken our curses even more. Setting aside whatever mysterious magnum opus megaproject Altar Lord is desperately trying to finish in time, if RP can't finish off NDA this turn, they'll have a stronger NDA to contend with next turn. They grow quickly, infighting or no. If NDA survives another turn, that's another ball RP still has to deal with along with the Bees and the Maze. It's harder to decisively resolve issues if you're spread thin. The war will be extended.

Also, we'd be much better at keeping the hardpoints once we got them if we brought our array engineers along. Having an extra seven defensive legions won't hurt, either.

[ ] Plan: Altar Lord's Last Chance
[ ] Jin Muyi was a fallen hero of the Clan, a victim of his own techniques
[ ] Don't
[ ] War (Jingshen) - Simply invade. Strike with all your might and seize territory. Kill cultivators. Requires your personal attention to prevent Nascent Souls simply obliterating your forces. Uses your personal Action for the turn.
-[ ] Manuel - Hunt An Enemy (Old Jingshen) - To be abandoned if our troops are attacked by a Nascent.
-[ ] Kleisthenes - Work with Lady Yao to assassinate or subvert the Jingshen Nascent Soul candidates and steal their Nascent Soul Tribulation treasures.
[ ] Raise Two Scorpion Legions (1 Purchase)
[ ] A Thousand Spies, Ten Thousand Eyes on the Blood Oak (1 Purchase)
[ ] Grow a Shambler Legion (Major Purchase - costs 2 Purchases)

I'm choosing to not assist SPS with our legions and array engineers, with the Hong Xuan Irregulars, or by paying them 10 Wealth for the mirror.

They would use each erg of assistance on finishing the war.

Instead, we'll boost Sheng Yu's legions as much as possible with scorpions and plant zombies, as well as making sure we don't get any nasty surprises from Magic Oak.

I'm not choosing the Hunt Old Jingshen action, as War seems to require a Nascent to babysit our forces. If it's possible to do both, that would be better, but I don't see a way to stalk OJ while also guarding our troops against Jiao's Soul Crush.

Edit: TehChron pointed out that Manuel didn't need to be fully in reserve in the war with the Cannibals. His personal action was simply interrupted when Old Cannibal showed up.

I'll add flavor text to the plan if there's interest in helping Altar Lord complete his life's work.

no. · Aug 14, 2021

Olivebirdy said:
No offense, but sez who? Where is the boundary beyond which RP will be okay with us destroying Jingshen and why is it specifically after we build them arrays and bringing in Hong Xuan?

How's that? If we kill Old Jingshen and start taking his mines, RP will be quite peeved at us. If we continue being useful, they will be less peeved at us. If they're busy with a war on three fronts, they will have to delay our punishment. If we assist with that war, our punishment will be lessened when they get around to it.

Thank you for the consideration, but I'll admit that the efficiency and speed at which we take hardpoints is my secondary priority. My top priority is giving Altar Lord a little more space. If he gets a little more breathing room, he should be able to do something drastic, finish his great work against Heaven, his life's work, the whole point of his going through Blood Path. He's the last Altar Lord and everything he's done was leading up to this. It's not going to be on the level of rising a stage or two, he's got larger goals than that. My bet is on giving Heaven another wound.

How does that help us? Well, odds are really good that it'll be a hell of a distraction to the Heaven-influenced Righteous Path, and that it'll be something they have to contend with. I'm hoping it will weaken our curses even more. Setting aside whatever mysterious magnum opus megaproject Altar Lord is desperately trying to finish in time, if RP can't finish off NDA this turn, they'll have a stronger NDA to contend with next turn. They grow quickly, infighting or no. If NDA survives another turn, that's another ball RP still has to deal with along with the Bees and the Maze. It's harder to decisively resolve issues if you're spread thin. The war will be extended.

Also, we'd be much better at keeping the hardpoints once we got them if we brought our array engineers along. Having an extra seven defensive legions won't hurt, either.

[ ] Plan: Altar Lord's Last Chance
[ ] Jin Muyi was a fallen hero of the Clan, a victim of his own techniques
[ ] Don't
[ ] War (Jingshen) - Simply invade. Strike with all your might and seize territory. Kill cultivators. Requires your personal attention to prevent Nascent Souls simply obliterating your forces. Uses your personal Action for the turn.
-[ ] Manuel - Hunt An Enemy (Old Jingshen) - To be abandoned if our troops are attacked by a Nascent.
-[ ] Kleisthenes - Work with Lady Yao to assassinate or subvert the Jingshen Nascent Soul candidates and steal their Nascent Soul Tribulation treasures.
[ ] Raise Two Scorpion Legions (1 Purchase)
[ ] A Thousand Spies, Ten Thousand Eyes on the Blood Oak (1 Purchase)
[ ] Grow a Shambler Legion (Major Purchase - costs 2 Purchases)

I'm choosing to not assist SPS with our legions and array engineers, with the Hong Xuan Irregulars, or by paying them 10 Wealth for the mirror.

They would use each erg of assistance on finishing the war.

Instead, we'll boost Sheng Yu's legions as much as possible with scorpions and plant zombies, as well as making sure we don't get any nasty surprises from Magic Oak.

I'm not choosing the Hunt Old Jingshen action, as War seems to require a Nascent to babysit our forces. If it's possible to do both, that would be better, but I don't see a way to stalk OJ while also guarding our troops against Jiao's Soul Crush.

Edit: TehChron pointed out that Manuel didn't need to be fully in reserve in the war with the Cannibals. His personal action was simply interrupted when Old Cannibal showed up.

I'll add flavor text to the plan if there's interest in helping Altar Lord complete his life's work.

As an approach, I am not entirely aligned with this but at least it fully embraces one course of action as opposed to going for the best of both worlds. I just have one question: why the Blood Oak spies? There's no indication that that would be helpful to the war effort at all. Wouldn't it be better to just save up the money?

GlassOlive · Aug 14, 2021

Olivebirdy said:
[ ] Plan: Altar Lord's Last Chance
[ ] Jin Muyi was a fallen hero of the Clan, a victim of his own techniques
[ ] Don't
[ ] War (Jingshen) - Simply invade. Strike with all your might and seize territory. Kill cultivators. Requires your personal attention to prevent Nascent Souls simply obliterating your forces. Uses your personal Action for the turn.
-[ ] Manuel - Hunt An Enemy (Old Jingshen) - To be abandoned if our troops are attacked by a Nascent.
-[ ] Kleisthenes - Work with Lady Yao to assassinate or subvert the Jingshen Nascent Soul candidates and steal their Nascent Soul Tribulation treasures.
[ ] Raise Two Scorpion Legions (1 Purchase)
[ ] A Thousand Spies, Ten Thousand Eyes on the Blood Oak (1 Purchase)
[ ] Grow a Shambler Legion (Major Purchase - costs 2 Purchases)

I like this plan a lot. My only concern is the Shambler Legion - it seems anti-synergistic with disavowing Muyi. The RP will maybe be a little less likely to assist the Jingshen if we aren't blatantly throwing pseudo-Blood Path armies at them. I'm also not entirely convinced that they're going to make a significant difference in the war effort.

If we buy the Hateful Mirror instead, then we can be assured our second Nascent won't get sniped by Old Jingshen or Jiao while we're on the other side of the desert hunting. There's also the far-outside shot that using it and making Jiao Accept it could stagger her briefly.

Mochinator · Aug 15, 2021

Olivebirdy said:
Yes. Allowing Altar Lord the space to do what he needs to do will end up letting us get away with more than the goodwill we'd get from defending the South. Particularly since we can help defend the South next turn, after Old Jingshen is dead and Altar Lord pulls his last trick.

It's not a good idea to let RP finish the war that keeps us safe just so SPS can kick us off the council. It's just not a good tradeoff. They can have us pay money or they can kill some of our cultivators or demand community service instead, it's just not worth letting them win. We can give them some other fig leaf.

If you think we're not going to get to keep observing the council, we're just helping RP for the goodwill. Definitely not as good as the war continuing or Altar Lord somehow making progress against Heaven. If you think we are going to keep our observer status, RP and SPS will take the same retaliation as they would without it, with whatever difference goodwill makes.

I'd prefer they be unable to make more than a token objection because Altar Lord is still kicking than rely on goodwill to lighten their face-saving blow.

Edit: Also, we can continue building up goodwill for as long as they're busy. We don't need to build it up before we attack Jingshen, we need to build it up before we're retaliated against. Nothing stopping us from helping the South after Altar Lord does his thing and after we attack Jingshen, as long as we get it in before they get some slack.

Point of consideration. Getting on the council and cozying up to SPS main objective is to use diplomatic means to prevent from being squished. But after we take out the jingshen and seize full control of the desert, we don't need to worry as much about the war in the plains because it's genuinely unlikely to affect us at all.

Right now, our main reason for caring for the War In the Plains purely for it's use as a distraction for the Righteous Powers and how it eats up most of their resources allowing us to make offensive moves. Even sending aid there isn't because we care drastically on if the Righteous lose a city or two. It's purely for diplomatic currency which we're planning to use to sooth over the whole take over the Jingshen thing.

Once we do take over the Jingshen and gain hegemony of the desert, their influence over us weakens because of the fact that we really no longer need anything from the Plains. We have the wealth from the mines to turn the desert into a fortress and build up gradually over the years with only worrying about the Trial. In that aspect, the war not ending or the Righteous losing is an advantage because it prevents them from even attempting anything in the desert due to a lack of resources.

But on the diplomatic front, we can use said currency earned from sending our legions to hopefully negotiate a new relationship with the SPS/Righteous Powers. Be it via sending legions as mercs or providing better rates for Spirit Stones etc. The more diplomatic currency we build up before the attack, the more can be sent to weaken any fallout that can occur which in turn allows for better chances in negotiating a new relationship

And getting on the Council so we can be kick out for the invasion counts. Because it allows the SPS to present a tough front showing that no matter the aid they give us, we act for justice! But backchannelwise, this Face-saving could lead to them transitioning to negotiation with us because the "punshiment" for the invasion has been done via the kicking out.

In contrast to them having to make a token show of force as the "punishment". Of course this interpretation of their actions could be wrong, but chances are that if diplomatic currency is present it'll be the first thing to be burnt as fallout for the invasion

Shard · Aug 15, 2021

I would rather not disavow Muyi even if convenient.

Sirrocco · Aug 15, 2021

Olivebirdy said:
[ ] War (Jingshen) - Simply invade. Strike with all your might and seize territory. Kill cultivators. Requires your personal attention to prevent Nascent Souls simply obliterating your forces. Uses your personal Action for the turn.
-[ ] Manuel - Hunt An Enemy (Old Jingshen) - To be abandoned if our troops are attacked by a Nascent.
-[ ] Kleisthenes - Work with Lady Yao to assassinate or subvert the Jingshen Nascent Soul candidates and steal their Nascent Soul Tribulation treasures.

Pretty sure this is not legit. Going to war explicitly uses our personal action for the turn. It says so right there on the tin. We can't both go to war and hunt old Jingshen.

@occipitallobe - could we have a confirm one way or the other on this one? There appears to be some confusion.

Katana1515 · Aug 15, 2021

Yeah, I think people are trying to use the personal actions to flavour how our Nascents contribute in the war. Which is understandable, but might be jumping the gun a bit, since we will likely be given the chance to do that in the War Sub Turns that follow.

occipitallobe · Aug 15, 2021

Moriatorum is over. Sorry about the few extra hours!

Sirrocco said:
Pretty sure this is not legit. Going to war explicitly uses our personal action for the turn. It says so right there on the tin. We can't both go to war and hunt old Jingshen.

@occipitallobe - could we have a confirm one way or the other on this one? There appears to be some confusion.

Yeah, war uses your action. You'll have additional war-votes if you go to war on where you put your Nascent focus, however.

Shaper47 · Aug 15, 2021

[X] Plan: The most important part of any summary execution is to remember to have fun and be yourself
-[X] Jin Muyi was a fallen hero of the Clan, a victim of his own techniques
--[X] Alas, for Jin Muyi a beloved hero of the Clan has fallen to the blood path in his lust for power and had to be struck down, he was tricked into being overcome by a blood path legacy by the scheming Jingshen who have been revealed to be blood path users
-[X] Send the Clan's best Array-Engineers as well as several Legions south from the Great Battlefield to the Verdant South
--[X] Given how we and the Strength Purity Sect have such an eternal friendship we will of course aid them against the vile blood path. Though times may be hard, together we stand against the demonic forces of the blood path.
-[X] War - Jingshen
--[X] The foul Jingshen have gone too far, they have assaulted the beautiful righteous Yao Zhihao with intent to murder her and consume her flesh using the vile blood path, they even used one of their secret blood path legacies to corrupt our beloved hero Jin Muyi. In hindsight we should have know that the Jingshen were blood path users from how they go about slaughtering mortals. Still it is to late to change the past all that remains in front of us in justice found in their summary execution.
-[X] Manuel - War on Jingshen
-[X] Kleisthenes - War on Jingshen
-[X] Grow a Shambler Legion (Major Purchase - costs 2 Purchases)
-[X] Raise Two Scorpion Legions (1 Purchase)

[X]Plan: Destasia Unleashed

nothingtoseehere · Aug 15, 2021

[X] Jin Muyi was a fallen hero of the Clan, a victim of his own techniques

Insane-Not-Crazy · Aug 15, 2021

[x] Plan For Forgiveness, Not Permission
-[x] Jin Muyi was a hero of the Clan to the very last
--"The Tragedy of Jin Muyi the Deep-Rooted is a tale of endless sacrifice for the Clan. For Seven Days, he put his very soul at risk to bring the Indomitable Thirteen to Pleuron, at the end giving up even his human form to grant the opening for a Miracle. A hundred years later he did so again at Fated Pleuron, pushing himself to the limit of Formation Establishment and beyond, slaying Hunters above his cultivation realm like one of our Paragons of old. To the last, that very strength was sacrificed, seeking to eliminate an ancient threat to our Clan, resulting in him...being subverted, if only temporarily, by a direct disciple of monstrous Soup Chef possessing him. Leading to a final sacrifice: His life, creating an opening against a monster which at Core Formation was already overwhelming the Nascent Souls of our clan. Jin Muyi was a Hero, and he has endlessly saved our Clan from threats. Let it be spread far and wide: One of Soup Chefs most perfidious legacies was destroyed at his hands, if at great cost."
-[x] Send the Clan's best Array-Engineers as well as several Legions south from the Great Battlefield to the Verdant South.
--"Make no mistake: That the Righteous Path will be unamused at our plans and actions is a supreme understatement. Thus, it is critical that in order to consolidate our gains - and retain even a fraction of what we have spent much blood and treasure building with them - it is imperative that we continue to ingratiate ourselves with the Righteous Powers. Our expertise in defeating the Abyssal Bees and Old Cannibal will be invaluable, even if the cost is providing the Joyful Blacksmiths an opportunity to analyze our Arraycraft. This is fine. When the war against the Jingshen is prosecuted in its entirety, those same Legions will also present a dire threat of their own to the Verdant South. What Righteous Path would dare risk a Thousand Song in the heart of their territory, when Old Cannibal and his three nascents wait in the wings to take advantage?"
-[x] War against the Jingshen Clan- Simply invade. Strike with all your might and seize territory. Kill cultivators. Requires your personal attention to prevent Nascent Souls simply obliterating your forces. Uses your personal Action for the turn. War will open a set of new sub-turns.
--"The time has come. It would be a lie to say that there is a deep seated enmity between us. We have been rivals. Not foes. But in this cruel world, even apathy and a conflict of interests results in potential genocide at the hands of those whom you have done no great wrong. We Golden Devils know this fact quite keenly, far better than most. That is why we hold no hesitation. We shall avenge the insult done against our ally, Lady Yao of the Flood Dragon gang. As many Juniors as Old Jingshen has, we will kill."
-[x] Manuel - Hunt An Enemy (Old Jingshen) - Why not? Hunt down enemies, see if you can kill someone. Usually used against an opposing Nascent Soul. Potentially very dangerous.
--"You have watched us for quite some time, haven't you my old friend? For so very long, the three of us have had our dance, and the two of us in particular stood in Alexios' shadow. In that regards I can understand you, hesitant to face such an overbearing man. But you know, it's interesting in a way that I see parallels between you two as well. Yes. Both of you dying to save your family, and failing miserably in the attempt. Let me carve Alexios' final lesson to carry with you into the next world as a gift to him."
-[x] Kleisthenes - War - Work with Lady Yao to Assassinate or Subvert the Jingshen Nascent Soul candidates and steal their Nascent Soul Tribulation treasures. Ensure that a third Jingshen Nascent Soul does not arise, let alone a fourth.
--"Your efforts and assignment in these initial moves is perhaps the most vital part of the opening stages of this war. It is impossible for the Jingshen to resist a conventional invasion from us for overlong. Thanks to the ascension blood, technique palace, and the Heavenly Bandits assistance the Jingshen juniors simply lack the capability to match us in warfare, that shall be an inevitable slog. Your true task is to contain contain not just hypothetical Nascents, but to force Jiao to split her focus several ways. She can either interfere with you, or she can assist in the defense of her territory, but not both. So long as you move together, you will present an irresistible threat to their heartlands. And even if she should attack you both together, it will present an immense risk to Jiao as well. Do not try and kill her if it comes to that; merely drive her off or otherwise wound her to the point of fleeing. Killing her comes next."
-[x] The Hong Xuan Division (1 Purchase)
--"It goes without saying that the Righteous Path will be less than amused by our invasion of the Jingshen. However, we have the excuse. We have the strength to do so. We have the need. And if the Hong Xuan can be pacified somewhat after the results of the previous decades, then this can only be called a benefit. Further, the more bodies we have in those Legions, the more of a potential check it serves against the Righteous Path should they seek to turn against us in rebuke. A forceful method, but an appreciable one nevertheless. Only a fool negotiates from a position of weakness. We have not forgotten."
-[x] Purchase a Nascent Treasure - The Hateful Mirror (Major Purchase - costs 2 Purchases)
--"I understand, Second Elder. Our lives are...valuable, are they not? Even as we give up more and more, enduring whatever may come due to the burdens we shoulder. It is only natural that we do what we must to protect the core health of the Clan in this dangerous and unforgiving world."
-[x] Raise Two Scorpion Legions (1 Purchase)
--"With the forces deployed into the Verdant South, it goes without saying that we must shore up the weakness that sending so many of our best West opens up in such a campaign. Thankfully, speed is what we need most, for the Jingshens juniors are but ants in comparison to us on a pound for pound basis. The swifter we strike into their heartlands, the longer it will take for them to raise stiff defenses to resist our advances. The more easily you can take advantage of the chaos left in the wake of the Second Elder and Lady Yao, the better."

[X] Plan Conventional War
-[x] Jin Muyi was a fallen hero of the Clan, a victim of his own techniques
-[x] Don't
-[X] War (Jingshen) - You are as ever a loyal ally. The Flood Dragon Gang has called upon you to help them repay the insult made by Jingshen personally to Lady Yao. You march with the Gang to demand a reckoning and force out the Jingshen Nascents.
-[x] (War) Manuel
-[x] (War) Kleisthenes
-[x] The Hong Xuan Division
-[x] Purchase a Nascent Treasure - The Hateful Mirror
-[x] Raise Two Scorpion Legions

Edit: I'm offering a bandwagon to anyone who wants to drop sending away troops away without demonizing Jin Muyi because I haven't seen one. Our map reveal might change some minds

[X] Plan Ok These Guys are Tough
-[X] Jin Muyi was a hero of the Clan to the very last
-[x] Don't
-[X] War (Jingshen) - You are as ever a loyal ally. The Flood Dragon Gang has called upon you to help them repay the insult made by Jingshen personally to Lady Yao. You march with the Gang to demand a reckoning and force out the Jingshen Nascents.
-[x] (War) Manuel
-[x] (War) Kleisthenes
-[x] The Hong Xuan Division
-[x] Purchase a Nascent Treasure - The Hateful Mirror
-[x] Raise Two Scorpion Legions

Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

mook.

One with too many ideas

mook.

Pink Flamingo Cabal Grand Vizier

mook.

Pink Flamingo Cabal Grand Vizier

mook.

Pink Flamingo Cabal Grand Vizier

Protect the weak against the evil strong.

One and Many

Pedantic