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The Path Unending (A Cultivation Quest)

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[X] Faster is better. We want to infuse immediately.

I want this thing done. Yes, DD would be nice, but with a charm with numbers this high that's going to take too long in real-life terms at this rate. I mean seriously, it's been nearly a real-life year since we promised to make a charm for Jai Fa, and it hasn't been made. We still need to find Wonders/Treasures for Siani's assignment. Let's clear something off our plate so we can do other stuff, and clear more stuff off of our plate.
 
[X] The higher the build target, the better. We want to double down.

Its been expressly stated that they dont care if we fail to save le dude. I also dont think theyd let zhi die. Id rather dump all our actions next week and the week after into DD and infusing, to get the charm ready before deer fight. Or just not aiming to get it down b4 deerfight and do 3 a week, idc if we fail this particular mission. This is a super important item narratively and will ve a very central charm to zhis character going forward. I want it to be as good as possible.
 
Enjou said:
I want this thing done. Yes, DD would be nice, but with a charm with numbers this high that's going to take too long in real-life terms at this rate. I mean seriously, it's been nearly a real-life year since we promised to make a charm for Jai Fa, and it hasn't been made. We still need to find Wonders/Treasures for Siani's assignment. Let's clear something off our plate so we can do other stuff, and clear more stuff off of our plate.
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In terms of IRL time, there's a difference between of two in-game weeks between these two charms, assuming that we go roughly three actions per week.

Ves noted that one of the prior weeks took a month because of the multiple socials we took. Every social is their own threadmark and one vote, after all. I believe this was the one where we talked to Xiong, and found out that we could cycle from Teachers?

Crafting weeks, on the other hand, tend to move quickly, because crafting can be condensed into one threadmark. Hence, I don't think this will take as much IRL time as you fear.
 
ReaderOfFate said:
In terms of IRL time, there's a difference between of two in-game weeks between these two charms, assuming that we go roughly three actions per week.

Ves noted that one of the prior weeks took a month because of the multiple socials we took. Every social is their own threadmark and one vote, after all. I believe this was the one where we talked to Xiong, and found out that we could cycle from Teachers?

Crafting weeks, on the other hand, tend to move quickly, because crafting can be condensed into one threadmark. Hence, I don't think this will take as much IRL time as you fear.
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It still doesn't change that while we're doing more crafting actions on this thing, we're not doing actions on other things, and the rest of the game world isn't going to stop moving because we decided to DD this charm. We have duties that we have to attend to, we have another obligation we've been putting off for a long time, and we're almost certain to gain new obligations as time goes on. I really do not want to make this charm take even longer, because it's just going to cause us more trouble.

In order to make any reasonable progress, we have to put in at least three actions a week on this thing. That's half our free actions, which we also need to use to search for Wonders, integrate Shatter the Mirror, deal with any other obligations, and maintain our friendships. It's really frustrating to have to plan around making this monster of a charm, and it just seems like a blocker to getting other things we have to do. I'd rather just get it out of the way already.
 
Enjou said:
It still doesn't change that while we're doing more crafting actions on this thing, we're not doing actions on other things, and the rest of the game world isn't going to stop moving because we decided to DD this charm. We have duties that we have to attend to, we have another obligation we've been putting off for a long time, and we're almost certain to gain new obligations as time goes on. I really do not want to make this charm take even longer, because it's just going to cause us more trouble.

In order to make any reasonable progress, we have to put in at least three actions a week on this thing. That's half our free actions, which we also need to use to search for Wonders, integrate Shatter the Mirror, deal with any other obligations, and maintain our friendships. It's really frustrating to have to plan around making this monster of a charm, and it just seems like a blocker to getting other things we have to do. I'd rather just get it out of the way already.
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Exactly. I think it would be a mistake to focus too heavily on the charm in front of us when there's so much other cool stuff to do! Also, we haven't even gotten to the next plot hook coming, and I want FV done before it does happen.
 
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[X] The higher the build target, the better. We want to double down.

This is a character-defining moment for Kong Zhi. We have frequently in-character expressed our frustration with our modifications, so there's reason to only do a normal amount of investment. But I think Zhi is the sort of artist that is almost forced by his own muse to perfect his art. It's part of why he has such disdain for other crafters. They really DO make substandard work (by Kong Zhi's standards.) But for that attitude to not be simple prejudice and hypocrisy, I think he really needs to be the sort of person who won't stop at 'enough' even when he's in a hurry. When making a masterpiece (and what Kong charm is not a masterpiece?) he's going to go the extra mile to perfect it.
 
Fact of the matter is, we have a huge backlog of stuff to do.

Like... consider this, Fa fought the Duel for us LAST JULY, and we still haven't made her the Axe she requested as payment.

I get it, big numbers good, yadda yadda, but we have shit to do! We're putting off obligations, assignments, and other important stuff for a very nebulous reward.

And how do I know this? Vitriolic Retort. We DD'd that charm, and it didn't stop it from being (to paraphrase a few people) boring charm that we hardly ever use and people constantly want to sell. (Which breaks my fucking heart) TLDR, good design is more important than big numbers, we have a good design, we've put in solid work.

Stopping at this point is not being Half-assed, it's Kong Zhi shutting down his OCD and admitting that "yeah, I did a good job on this"
 
[X] The higher the build target, the better. We want to double down.

The reason for this purely emotional, so I can't really make an argument for it, but I really would like to do our best on this.
 
Enjou said:
It still doesn't change that while we're doing more crafting actions on this thing, we're not doing actions on other things, and the rest of the game world isn't going to stop moving because we decided to DD this charm. We have duties that we have to attend to, we have another obligation we've been putting off for a long time, and we're almost certain to gain new obligations as time goes on. I really do not want to make this charm take even longer, because it's just going to cause us more trouble.
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Given that you were just talking about the IRL time this would take, I answered regarding the IRL time this would take.

I'd say something about you shifting the point, but I do the exact same thing time to time so what can I say, right? :V

Personally, my perspective is that our friends had several weeks where they couldn't be social'd because of their intensive training/having to take a mission/etc etc.

Unless if you're going to suggest that they screwed themselves in the process, I'm feeling pretty good about our friendships being able to last throughout that time.

Regarding the rest, it's valid. I just don't think that taking six actions is something that will deal the death blow to any of them in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately this is only a period of three weeks where we'd have three other actions available.

If we only cycled to StM once or twice within that time period, that would be sad, but ultimately we've done the exact same thing to StM in the pursuit of our multiple weekly socials. I know you've personally expressed annoyance about that yourself, Enjou, so I understand why you wouldn't want that to continue, but let's be real, that'd be the case either way.
 
For those planning on building FV by DD'ing after the Deer, I'm not sure this is going to work out that way. The time we're in right now was explcitly granted to us by Ves to take care of things like FV and Fa's axe. We have done a... not stellar job of that. I think it's quite likely our schedule is going to get worse after the Deer, not better. After all, by that point we'll have proven we can take on Caretaker missions.

You know what would help with those missions? A very powerful charm. :wink2:
 
[X] The higher the build target, the better. We want to double down.

The numbers mean nothing to me. I want this as high a quality as we can make because of what it is. Zhi's old man gave this up to Zhi out of love despite the fact that it was seemingly a key part of his ascension to Warlord, a Step that if he fails he will probably die.

it's also going to probably be the most significant Charm we make for a very long time on basically every level. Narratively, mechanically, to Zhi personally, etc. Not going all in on it, at least in my personal opinion and sense of taste, just doesn't make a lick of sense to me and makes me very irritated.

Moreover, Zhi not going all in on this Charm of all Charms, as a character, just does not compute to me at all. Zhi reveres his father, he practically worships him and holds him in the highest esteem. The fact that Shuren, without hesitation, sent Zhi something on the level of A Love Transfixed, especially given what precisely Shuren was going to use it for himself, and trusted Zhi fully to make use of it to solve the issue of Taioyue's limbs means the absolute World to Zhi. To not put his full effort and leveraging everything he can to make this Charm of the highest possible quality he can is Anathema to my understanding of Zhi's character.

His desire to fix the Limbs, his pride as a Kong Charm Crafter, and his respect for his Father and the sacrifice he made for this demand nothing less.
 
@ReaderOfFate Ya wanna talk about IRL time?

Okay, how's this. We got this material back in October 2020. The Vote on what charm to make with it Closed on February 7 2021

Alotta of people are tired of dragging this thing out!

Yeah, numerically, it may only be a few actions more. But we have more stuff going on that just crafting! We could have this thing done within THIS WEEK, this REAL LIFE WEEK.

If y'all force us to DD this thing tho... who knows how long it will take IRL to be done with this thing. It's getting to the point where I'm starting to lose interest in what the fucking thing even does! Can we just finish the damn thing and close this chapter of Kong Zhi's life for the sake of all that is holy?!!
 
Knight-Radiant said:
@ReaderOfFate Ya wanna talk about IRL time?

Okay, how's this. We got this material back in October 2020. The Vote on what charm to make with it Closed on February 7 2021

Alotta of people are tired of dragging this thing out!
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If you wanna talk about dates, let's talk about context, then.

Back when we got A Love Transfixed, it hadn't even been the Deeps yet, so naturally we were focusing on the Deeps instead because that was what we needed to get our Sigil.

Without our Sigil, apparently that itself would have been quest end.

As was said by Ves during the vote we voted for the design in, a big part of why it was taking so long was because there was a massive amount of conflict regarding the Charm's design itself.

I remember that drawing out over a 100 votes, and it was a close one as well.

My perspective is, if people care enough about this Charm already, why skimp out on the finishing lap just to get to see it earlier?

That's like marinating up a brisket for a whole day, and then tossing in the smoker and just forgetting about it instead of carefully tending to the smoker throughout. (Sorry, been watching a lotta BBQ videos on Youtube, it's messing with my metaphors.)

And like, I said it already. It's not going to be until August or something, it's much more likely that we'll be seeing it in June, if not sooner if we commit to the next two weeks. Remember, Ves condenses crafting actions into the same threadmark, unlike socials which each take a threadmark and a vote. In other words, 5 crafting actions can be shoved out of the way in the space of one update.

Ofc, if you don't think that the reasons I brought up earlier regarding why we should put extra effort into this are valid so it doesn't matter how relatively quick it's gonna be, then that's fine. I was arguing from my feelings on the matter anyway, which isn't something that perfectly transfers person to person, because we're all different.

By the way, do you mind not saying I'm forcing things, KR? I'm in the same position as all of you guys, all I can do is argue and hopefully it resonates with someone, which is much different from the sort of guaranteed, and frankly, malicious action that forcing implies.
 
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ReaderOfFate said:
My perspective is, if people care enough about this Charm already, why skimp out on the finishing lap just to get to see it earlier?
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Except that's just the thing!!!

Our Side sees the finish line and are happy that we'll be done soon, then y'all say "That's not enough! We should do all the laps over again! Because then it will feel more satisfying!"

I don't agree! And the simple thing is, pushing completion out further is actively KILLING MY INVESTMENT in this charm CT. Do you get that? I'm getting to the point where I don't even care.

I'm TIRED of putting other things aside for this thing and don't want to double the amount of time spent on this charm. Is that so hard to understand?

ReaderOfFate said:
And like, I said it already. It's not going to be until August or something, it's much more likely that we'll be seeing it in June, if not sooner if we commit to the next two weeks. Remember, Ves condenses crafting actions into the same threadmark, unlike socials which each take a threadmark and a vote. In other words, 5 crafting actions can be shoved out of the way in the space of one update.
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Okay, what about the simple fact that

Me, and alot of other people, don't WANT to drop everything for the next 2-3 in game weeks to craft when we could have finished it as part of next week and gone on to our various other shelved things. I want to make other shit, finish learning techs, go out and do fun adventure shit!

It's especially frustrating in my case because, I didn't WANT to Start FV when we did, I wanted to do Fa's Axe first but people wanted to kill the deer and FV squeezed it's way into the plan.

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TLDR; This is a game I'm participating in to have fun. All this delay around FV is making it not fun for me. I want it done and over with already so we can go on to fun things again.
 
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