Hmm . . . I like to think that the first "perspective" would be inwards, because introspection can be vaguely stretched into recovery.
The Path Unending (A Cultivation Quest)
- Thread starter Vesvius
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- original xianxia cultivation quest
Hmm . . . I like to think that the first "perspective" would be inwards, because introspection can be vaguely stretched into recovery.
As it stands I think the long term aspect of the Second Heart is being seriously underestimated. Think about what it means, "whenever a technique is integrated, the heart will absorb some of the perfection of anam, and spread it through body and spirit."
It takes the benefits/effects of Integrating a Technique and expands on them in some manner. Techniques are a key part of cultivation, to the point that Siani told us that we were an "incomplete" Soldier because Zhi didn't have Techniques Integrated that matched his Core and as such should not move on to the Farmers Step until he did.
The Second Heart takes this crucial aspect of cultivation and makes it more. I also severely doubt it will be something as mundane as simply giving Zhi extra stat points upon integration.
It takes the benefits/effects of Integrating a Technique and expands on them in some manner. Techniques are a key part of cultivation, to the point that Siani told us that we were an "incomplete" Soldier because Zhi didn't have Techniques Integrated that matched his Core and as such should not move on to the Farmers Step until he did.
The Second Heart takes this crucial aspect of cultivation and makes it more. I also severely doubt it will be something as mundane as simply giving Zhi extra stat points upon integration.
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I agree that this is probably true too. Giving *even more* stat points on integration would be pretty boring.
More likely would be permanent changes to our form, or new abilities, based on the technique we integrated. I don't know how far our overlords would be willing to go — certainly the abilities wouldn't be as impressive as techniques in their own right. But, for instance, SEG might have improved our sensory abilities constantly. Warhound's Cry might improve our voice, allowing us to speak more loudly. A Sage tech might permanently improve our body.
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While part of the fluff the submitter included said 'bound to only one person at a time', we don't really know if that would be carried over if it wins.
I'm also going to add In Amber Clad on further thought.
[X] A Fractal View
[X] Chrysalis of the Polestar
[X] The Forge of Idealization
[x] In Amber Clad
Forge is still #1 and I will fight all comers to see it win, but Amber ain't bad.
Heart of Kong is ok and it's additive incremental bonus when integrating techs is a cool mechanic, great job to Ensou on it's design.
I would even vote for it if it wasn't clearly the 'Keep Taiyou Monsterform' option and it wasn't an implant. I just don't want Taiyou Monsterform at all, even if its an optional toggle and KZ is human 99.95% of the time. I'd even grudgingly accept a new non Taiyou Monsterform.
I strongly believe that Monsterform shift adds far too much to KZs plate and introduces a lot of elements of disharmony. Monsterform seems like it will require dozens of AP in familiarizing and training, meanwhile KZ has 3 techniques he HAS to prioritize for integration, and has a very viable melee combat path with the Warhammer form of Cui Dao.
Reject Heart, Embrace Forge.
Just going to point out that Fractal requires us feeding it materials and possibly even treasures to gain new forms. This means that it will probably eat materials that we would otherwise be using in the crafting of a charm.
I would rather not have to debate whether a material would be better used in a Charm or being fed to Fractal every time we get a new material.
Edit: On the other side, unlike Fractal or Forge, the Heart once made and implanted requires no further investment of action or resources. Once it's in that's it.
I would rather not have to debate whether a material would be better used in a Charm or being fed to Fractal every time we get a new material.
Edit: On the other side, unlike Fractal or Forge, the Heart once made and implanted requires no further investment of action or resources. Once it's in that's it.
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CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
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What worries me about the Fractal is that folks may end up deciding to just keep upgrading it and stop working on new charms.
So, one thing I worry about with A Fractal View is that despite being a neat charm concept it'll end up being something of a hassle. Having to feed it materials and treasures (or is that Treasures, as in Natural Treasures?) in order to unlock more functionality seems like something we'd end up debating every single time we got some neat new shiny. Like, do we feed it to the puzzle box or do we make something new out of it? Or if we find a really good mat that our father would be able to use do we send it home or do we feed it to the box? Having that argument every time we get something that could be fed to the box seems like it would become a major pain and could potentially become toxic. I would hope it wouldn't, but that does feel like something that could happen.
We actually don't know what the combat form would be, exactly, since the mechanics of it aren't entirely certain. Honestly, I kind of expect the combat form will evolve heavily as we integrate techniques. In that case I'd expect it to become more and more Zhi's thing than Taiyoue's.
We actually don't know what the combat form would be, exactly, since the mechanics of it aren't entirely certain. Honestly, I kind of expect the combat form will evolve heavily as we integrate techniques. In that case I'd expect it to become more and more Zhi's thing than Taiyoue's.
- Location
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I like the physical design of the heart but unfortunately the mechanics really put me off - I really, really don't want a monstrous combat form, nor do I want to implant anything in us.
I wish In Amber Clad got more attention, it's my favorite of the bunch aside from my own illustrious entry.
I wish In Amber Clad got more attention, it's my favorite of the bunch aside from my own illustrious entry.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Do you really though? You think there's a realistic chance that we're gonna not work on new charms, after this huge outpouring of ideas that shows you how much the thread likes charmcrafting?
It's one thing to have concerns about competition for mats between charms and this, but come on.
- Location
- United States
If that was your intent, I really wish you had made it more clear.
Steel, Smoke, Time. It's not a monster form people. It's a grey Power Ranger (from Time Force?).
Or maybe a Warframe. The point is the transformation will probably be something influenced by KZ's design and aesthetic choices and will gain traits from the techniques we integrate.
Evonix
Aspiring Lovecraft antagonist.
- Location
- Canada to 2 sigmas
[X] Chrysalis of the Polestar
[X] The Forge of Idealization
[X] The Forge of Idealization
Entirely fair, they all do fit into one of these categories approximately anyway. I will post them anyway though because I think you'll like them.
Anam: Blood/Star/Perception
Materials: A Love Transfixed, Kong Zhi's own still living eye, Kong Zhi's own still living heart
Preparations: This is not a masterpiece, one of those is an embodiment of the height of one's craft, this is made when capable of truly beginning. As it is Zhi does not know enough to know the extent of what he does not know about fleshshaping, he should not begin until he can say that he is a student of fleshshaping with the same confidence that he can say he is a student of gemworking or of the Kong method of crafting, internalizing the fundamental concepts of fleshshaping to the same degree that allows him to reliably craft without diagrams will take time, but time well spent. Tools must be made and will be charms in their own right. An expert will need to be hired to monitor the final process.
Creation: Firstly A Love Transfixed will be refined to be a matrix for organic growth, an incredible degree of detail will be required, specialized tools will be needed. He will remove but not detach his own heart and eye, preperations will be made to allow this to happen without discomfort or impediment. Heart and eye will be disassembled fundimentally in a manner that frees their fundamental structure without damage, they will be regrown around and through A Love Transfixed into a new organ while simultaneously A Love Transfixed gains fleshy properties and will grow with it.
Description: The fundamental nature of this charm/organ is, for better or for worse, a declaration of Zhi's authority over his own flesh, and thus to fundamentally alter the manner in which the body relates to the mind. All other effects are a result of or aid to this concept. It provides total awareness of and although slow, total control of his own body including this organ. With this Kong Zhi's only real limit is his understanding and our imagination though that isn't always a good thing. The limits to what people can make their body do is generally for their own good, though they are not for an intelligent mind with it's own discipline, Kong Zhi will be able to handle the responsibility, hopefully. May need an action each week dedicated to physical management.
Effects: Total understanding of own physical state and the ability to slowly alter it; resistance to poison, diseases and physical sabotage based attacks proportionate to Zhi's understanding of the method of attack; Bonus physical stress boxes from empty mental boxes, mental breakdown can thus lead to a degree of physical breakdown; resistance to all physical modifications from outside, any that are made will slowly revert, this makes healing Zhi difficult; penalty to passive healing; bonus to active healing; can mitigate the loss of one of most other internal organs; can specify body parts as crafting ingredients; body refinement and alteration techniques only need the raw materials, if any and generally go smoother though cannot use external forces or help; Kong Zhi's understanding is really the only limit to his physical abilities in the end; can give a bonus to physical abilities in exchange for stress boxes, this could be something of a double edged sword. Will need to spend an action per week on self-maintanence. If he doesn't pay attention his appearance may drift.
Materials: A Love Transfixed, Kong Zhi's own still living eye, Kong Zhi's own still living heart
Preparations: This is not a masterpiece, one of those is an embodiment of the height of one's craft, this is made when capable of truly beginning. As it is Zhi does not know enough to know the extent of what he does not know about fleshshaping, he should not begin until he can say that he is a student of fleshshaping with the same confidence that he can say he is a student of gemworking or of the Kong method of crafting, internalizing the fundamental concepts of fleshshaping to the same degree that allows him to reliably craft without diagrams will take time, but time well spent. Tools must be made and will be charms in their own right. An expert will need to be hired to monitor the final process.
Creation: Firstly A Love Transfixed will be refined to be a matrix for organic growth, an incredible degree of detail will be required, specialized tools will be needed. He will remove but not detach his own heart and eye, preperations will be made to allow this to happen without discomfort or impediment. Heart and eye will be disassembled fundimentally in a manner that frees their fundamental structure without damage, they will be regrown around and through A Love Transfixed into a new organ while simultaneously A Love Transfixed gains fleshy properties and will grow with it.
Description: The fundamental nature of this charm/organ is, for better or for worse, a declaration of Zhi's authority over his own flesh, and thus to fundamentally alter the manner in which the body relates to the mind. All other effects are a result of or aid to this concept. It provides total awareness of and although slow, total control of his own body including this organ. With this Kong Zhi's only real limit is his understanding and our imagination though that isn't always a good thing. The limits to what people can make their body do is generally for their own good, though they are not for an intelligent mind with it's own discipline, Kong Zhi will be able to handle the responsibility, hopefully. May need an action each week dedicated to physical management.
Effects: Total understanding of own physical state and the ability to slowly alter it; resistance to poison, diseases and physical sabotage based attacks proportionate to Zhi's understanding of the method of attack; Bonus physical stress boxes from empty mental boxes, mental breakdown can thus lead to a degree of physical breakdown; resistance to all physical modifications from outside, any that are made will slowly revert, this makes healing Zhi difficult; penalty to passive healing; bonus to active healing; can mitigate the loss of one of most other internal organs; can specify body parts as crafting ingredients; body refinement and alteration techniques only need the raw materials, if any and generally go smoother though cannot use external forces or help; Kong Zhi's understanding is really the only limit to his physical abilities in the end; can give a bonus to physical abilities in exchange for stress boxes, this could be something of a double edged sword. Will need to spend an action per week on self-maintanence. If he doesn't pay attention his appearance may drift.
A Love Transfixed Construction: A Love Transfixed is carved into a series of smooth curved oval plates with the concave faces carved with an incredibly complex pattern, more like one rune on each than a series of separate runes. To complete it he lies face down and arranges them along his spine with the largest on the base of the neck and the rest arranged along to slightly below the shoulder blades, when properly arranged and activated he will sink into a deep sleep as it slowly sinks into his skin to eventually merge with his spine. The whole process takes a day or two Description: Once properly merged four ephemeral arms emerge from from the small of the back, they look like openings onto a star field though more varied and colorful than one would normally see in the night sky, if one let's the mind wander and the arms are still the patterns seen through them seem to suggest veins and nerves. They lack the weaknesses of true flesh, they do not have imprecision, no fixed arrangement of fingers, of course they do not have the strengths either, they do not work from muscle memory and lack the speed and reaction time of muscle, they are quite useless in a fight under normal circumstances. They work as an extension of but not precisely part of Zhi, they do everything they're made to and them some, the intention that flows through them is refined and amplified, approaching the perfection that is known but not understood. Or to hopefully put it clearer, the conscious intent is the same but the subconscious intuition and understanding that fills out the details is drawn from the stars themselves(or the understanding embedded in the anam that represents the stars, dunno if it'd literally be the stars, seems impractical), it is difficult to consider how every part affects every other part when designing something but with this one will find details forming in a way that will work with the whole even before one has gotten a clear picture of what the whole will be exactly, this often gives charms a slightly organic look. With the ability to be selectively insubstantial they are just as effective working with biology as the rest of charm crafting, even the user's own flesh, the star aspect may help with carving channels, not faster or easier, slower if anything but with a more precise and holistic result. It can also channel anam with great precision but cannot suppress this flow to the same degree as miststeel, meaning it can be awkward to use when making things without a blood or blood derived aspect.
- Anam: Star, Blood, Life, Insect
- Appearance: A young tree cradles a chrysalis the size of a man in it's branches although at no point does the wood quite touch the surface. The chrysalis hangs from A Love Transfixed which in turn connects to dozens of fine branches a bit below the crown.
- Function: With a gentle tug the tree will twist slightly, moving the chrysalis up and over then down, almost to the ground, opening. The user then curls inside and tugs the chrysalis closed again, this action causes the tree to softly twist back. The chrysalis slowly fills with a syrupy liquid like blood or sap or honey, it matches one's body temperature precisely, it seeps through the skin and it is breathed in. The user sinks into a deep sleep, the mind grows in depth as the body loses definition, it molds to the will like a well used leather coat. The user stays like this for around three days and will always come out perfectly comfortable in their own skin. It is entirely defined by intent but one often comes out different than intended, it is at it's core about comfort and love but often people decide on uncomfortable courses of change in pursuit of higher ideals. It is not that this is in any way prevented, it is simply not the facet of the mind that decides while in the cocoon. It is a thing of healing and growth but this does not mean reversion, nothing that went in is lost. The experience is like a deep dream about one's physical form in perfect detail with it shifting with the dream, it is difficult to remember afterwards but the entirety of one's being being focused on the task and the starlight pouring from above allow a depth of understanding that leaves waking thought pale, it does lack the same deliberation, the wandering mind can go in strange directions, it will never be something unpleasant but it could not be exactly what was planned before hand, it's best to go in with general ideas and ambitions. That said nothing that comes out of the cocoon that didn't go in in one way or another, the foundations of understanding at the least are nessesary, inspiration is more important than rote detail, clever ideas about channels going in could become a network coming out although for something like that more preperation and multiple trips may be necessary. To add more material one may pour potions onto the roots or carry the things in with you, it's best to take anything that might be useful instead of only things for a specific plan, anything unused will be absorbed for later users or left untouched. It is most useful for the lower levels with higher tiers often demanding strange abstractions it cannot provide
- Construction: This idea's construction process will be quite slow and involved, it will be best to see if we can get the help of Sela to start with, partly because she probably knows a bit about growing spirit trees but mostly because it agrees with her philosophy and it'll help a lot of members. A Love Transfixed deserves an expert helping work it. After the gem is carved(a specialised toolset should probably be made) it is bonded to sapling or even a seed which in turn is enhanced so it will grow to fulfill the requirements, it shouldn't be directly molded as it grows. Special fertilizer will need to be made and it should probably be planted next to a wonder. Once it has reached the proper size a spirit beast of the proper nature should be invited to metamorphose with their chrysalis or cocoon hanging from A Love Transfixed which is now hanging from the branches inside the canopy. The spirit should do so willingly and it should do so because it is a good place to do so, arranging this will most likely take some time so it should be started soon.
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[X] The Heart of Kong
[X] A Fractal View
[X] The Forge of Idealization
[X] A Fractal View
[X] The Forge of Idealization
Speaking for myself: No, it isn't. It sounds like an amazing benefit that would make it into a wonderful artefact, if recovery of human form was a tangential consequence of this process.
Unfortunately, the transformation makes it a gimmicky overreach with no semblance of consistency. The Heart of Kong allows one to freely use the Gifts of Tiaoyue?
Nah.
By this same logic, I would argue that the benefits of the Forge are also being seriously underestimated; "gain deeper benefits/insight into Farmer." the Farmer's Step is no joke and doing well in it is of paramount importance.
The most common, pervasive theme of cultivation is 'A strong foundation.', and the second is probably 'grades' or 'ranking'.
I think KZ Soldier's Step is alright, but I don't think it would be wrong to say that the Farmer's step is probably the first big cultivation step; we know that it's incredibly varied and Auntie Bi explanation of 'You can carve your channels in many different ways' shows that there are probably right & wrong ways, complete & incomplete ways.
Things like quickly carving a bare minimum channel network to get the 'step completion' bonus, aka being a 'low grade' Farmer who probably won't be able to breakthrough the Teacher's Step or being slow & methodological and carving an exquisite channel network, setting a strong foundation that builds towards the Teacher's, Warlord's & the Steps beyond.
REJECT HEART, EMBRACE FORGE.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
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- They/Them
I mean their suggestion was just a concept. If Ves says otherwise, then Ves says otherwise.
If that was your intent, I really wish you had made it more clear.
Another thing that I like about The Heart of Kong is that it really fits well with the narrative of A Love Transfixed. The Prince gave the Emerald Tiger the gem as a symbol of her love, and she kept it with her for all her days. Now Kong Zhi's father has given it to him a symbol of love, if a different kind, and Kong Zhi would do much the same.
Vesvius is taking the rough idea of each charm and adjusting them. I don't know what the final product will exactly, beyond giving a combat form. The whole tech integration benefit thing isn't something I put in there, so the exact charm we get will not necessarily be quite what I put in the description.
Vesvius is taking the rough idea of each charm and adjusting them. I don't know what the final product will exactly, beyond giving a combat form. The whole tech integration benefit thing isn't something I put in there, so the exact charm we get will not necessarily be quite what I put in the description.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
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The mechanics blurb posted are what Ves and Cteatus think are a likely direction for the charn to go in tho. That's all that matters here. If they say we get a toggleable monster form, then thats likely to happen.
To be fair, Ves also had to forcefully initiate this vote. That says a lot about thread gridlock.
It's not an issue of "people not engaging with charmcrafting" but rather the tendency to (attempt to) optimize in the short term and put AP-intensive projects off. Suppose it cost fewer AP to upgrade a Fractal View to do something than it did to craft a new charm with the same function. Do you disagree that there would be a significant portion of the thread pushing for the former just because it was more efficient and we had a ton of other things to do. Heck, even I would be tempted. The concern isn't unfounded.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Honestly, the big thing I really like about the Heart is that it rewards us for pursuing techniques. Like, we've seen how awesome techniques are — remember all of the awesome ones Siani showed us? Well, this is an additional encouragement to really go after those, because it'll improve our body and spirit even more. Fractal would also let us do cool stuff, but getting the benefit out of it requires us to sacrifice mats we could spend on other cool stuff. Forge has the same general advantage as Heart, but techniques are a bit more interesting than channels, and we've gotta integrate techniques before starting the Farmer's step anyway.
Anyhow, that's just a mechanical analysis. The aesthetics are at least as important, but those are entirely a matter of personal preference.
Anyhow, that's just a mechanical analysis. The aesthetics are at least as important, but those are entirely a matter of personal preference.
Vesvius
The Wicked God
Two reasons, really. First, I've noticed that approval voting leads to a rise in more annoying tactical voting (at least that's been my experience). People always seem to wind up voting against something rather than for something, and that bothers me an absurd amount. And second, first past the post raises the amount of entertainment I get in a vote. There isn't nearly as much fun for me if people are just going, "Oh, any of these will work", and I need to get my jollies somewhere.
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