You know, I don't really know why we were offered Slice Fate way back when. It might have been to give Letrizia magic that wasn't from the Sovereignty, and it certainly does seem to be connected to Sharpbright.
But on the other hand, I kind of wonder what would happen if we just voted for it? Even if it ostensibly isn't on offer? It seems like the sort of thing that would kind of make sense as a hidden, permanently unlocked advancement.

Anyway, can we get to the next page before the update?
 
You know, I don't really know why we were offered Slice Fate way back when. It might have been to give Letrizia magic that wasn't from the Sovereignty, and it certainly does seem to be connected to Sharpbright.
But on the other hand, I kind of wonder what would happen if we just voted for it? Even if it ostensibly isn't on offer? It seems like the sort of thing that would kind of make sense as a hidden, permanently unlocked advancement.

Anyway, can we get to the next page before the update?
I wonder if it is time to truly begin abusing my power as the custodian of the vote formatting. Just start throwing in

[x .] Undying Vanguard
and
[x .] Slice Fate
at the bottom of every set of options.
 
The Shattering Ice
The Shattering Ice

Hunger came to himself, gasping. Tremulous shock pervaded his body, his form. His soul shivered as if on the verge of splintering. With nerveless fingers he raised the Forebear's Blade, his hand clutched so tight it seemed as if it would never let go.

He'd resolved, rather than recklessly wait for a mid-battle powerup, to gather all his might now, to push through every contingency since time was of the essence.

To absorb the entirety of the Opalescent Tower, to master fully the Tears of Winter, he'd resolved to draw upon the Forebear's power in full, to plumb the depths of the Blade for all the secrets he could at this moment attain. And there was power there, yes, not merely a river but a flood, a deluge of such scale as to drown mountain and ocean, power beyond all reason, power before which even the bare concept of reason was meaningless as dust. He'd dipped into that flood and stolen away a sliver, a dripping cup-full of power that taxed the very limits of his talent for abduction.

He'd barely survived the enfolding of such power into himself, but his vision of the Forebear still haunted him, even as with a merest exertion he drew the Tower into his Cloak of Sky, even as the Tears of Winter blazed in recognition of worthy might and unerring purpose. Around him his companions rushed in, their faces caught in worry, growing incrementally slower as the Astral storm about him raged. With a monumental effort he quelled it, but the storm within remained, shards of the Forebear's identity percolating through him like molten shrapnel, fusing to bone and essence; power and price were one and the same.

"Are you alright, Hunger?" asked Gisena, eyes wide with concern.

---

[ ] "Never better." - Though the path he was set on was in many ways even more brutal than Hunger's, the Forebear conducted himself with assiduous resolve, a state of unwavering focus bordering on grace. Given the circumstances to which he was subjected, the Forebear should be seen as an example to be emulated, not a tyrant to be scorned.

*Hunger is mostly unconcerned about Mental Contamination from the Forebear. A bit is fine, and a moderate amount not something to get worked up over. A great deal would be concerning, but much less so than that of someone not so thematically connected to Hunger himself in both purpose and means.
*The Forebear was wise to forbear speaking with the Ur-Mother. Her strength was dialogue; her Divine Speech literally the fundament of worlds. In that situation the best course of action was obviously to remove her ability to communicate with him and translate the conflict to the field of his own strength, the martial arena.
*Unlocks [Once and Future] II, which presages even further Forebear lore! You'll need 25 Arete and 2 picks to acquire it.
*Hunger will improve at unlocking Praxis Advancements. Increased appearance% of rare Advancements.

[ ] "Fine." - The Forebear's path has no bearing on Hunger's. They are too different for circumstances to compare, and the lessons of the Forebear's life have little to do with Hunger's current challenges. What analogues exist are misleading; Hunger's Apocryphal Curse makes it difficult for him to truly outscale any universe, whereas the Forebear's monomaniacal focus on skill with the blade was well-suited to handling the tribulations of his Procession.

*Hunger is about as concerned about Mental Contamination from the Forebear as he would be from any random person. It's a consequence to be avoided, a price one must occasionally but regrettably pay for power.
*Hunger won't adjust his current behavior at all. The lessons of the Forebear are inapplicable here, for all that they may mirror his adventures in certain aesthetic senses. To overfit the trajectory of Hunger's journey to the Forebear's would simply be a mistake; aside from the fact that Hunger wields his sword and slew his many-times removed descendent, he has no more connection to the Forebear than to any other historically significant figure.
*This is not a straightforward compromise option, consider the implications carefully before voting!

[ ] "Just a moment." - The Forebear was an unfortunate man of impressive will, subjected to a monstrous regime. That, in turn, made of him a monster, an uncompromising tyrant unwilling to yield even an iota to the desires of any he perceived as enemy. While he can't truly be blamed for the horrific state of mind to which he was delivered, neither should it be remotely seen as something to emulate.

*Hunger will attempt to resist [Mental Contamination]. +Psyche Conflict.
*Hunger will tend to avoid Advancements of the Forebear's Blade more than he has, though he's still willing to take them if they have particular thematic resonance or out of sheer expediency
*Hunger rejects the path of the Forebear, one of absolute conviction and martial strength, and pursues his own path. The details of that path are up to his characterization decisions. He may rely less on swordplay and more on magecraft or dialogue, or be more willing to converse with his opponents to both his benefit and detriment.
*Makes it more difficult to unlock [Once and Future] II. Discounts any one non-Forebear's Blade Advancement of 25 Arete or more by 1 additional Arete, stacking with all other sources.

---

You've attained the Title, [King of Winter]. What is its function? The 7-Arete upgrades need at least half of the total votecount of their parent options to prevail.

[ ] Overwhelm - A surfeit of might overwhelming. Increases Health, Damage Resistance, Condition Resistance, Damage Dealt and Attack Speed by 25%. Modifiers from this source stack multiplicatively with those from other sources, such that this Title offers scaling benefits virtually regardless of how high your base parameters become. Combined, these effects improve the wielder's damage output and resilience to 156%; compared to his pre-Title self the wielder would be roughly 245% as potent in direct combat. Good synergy with Uttermost and Inherit the World; compounding multipliers will set up an especially powerful Refinement of Battle. Damage Dealt modifier applies to the Power of Ruin in All circumstances. Uttermost already increased his Attribute-based damage scaling by a factor of seven, which this will improve to 8.75x, and Overwhelm will also improve his effective Power of Ruin multiplier from All-Defeating Stance to a fearsome 6.25x!

[ ] Whiteout [7 Arete] - The avalanche strength that buries resistance; the howling swiftness of a winter storm. Increases Damage Dealt modifier to +125% and Attack Speed modifier to +30%. 11.25x PoR with ADS...

Or

[ ] Pinnacle - The crowning season, for whom the harvest is laid. The test of adversity by which the year's efforts are measured, the bitter auspice which blankets the land in white and cold. The streams harden; the sky grows pale and clear, the sun a gimlet eye that offers sharp light but little warmth. Winter is the season of icy reason, the bleak unsparing ruler equally beautiful in ascension as in withdrawal. Hers is an austere beauty, but pristine: light unspoiled by color, ceaselessly cutting through. +INT, +++APP, +++++WILL. Willpower and Intelligence are both rare Attributes, pick them up where you can!

[ ]
Pristine [7 Arete]
- Just as the lesser form of this Title focuses on amplifying the effects of the Tears of Winter, so does this upgrade augment their greater aspect. +.1 Rank [unaffected by multipliers], Praxis Exertion reduced a further 5% (to 1/5th). In conjunction with the existing mental and social Attribute bonuses of the base Title, Hunger will see his out of combat efficacy superbly enhanced! However, even this is unlikely to yield greater strength in battle than a Hunger employing the Overwhelm-enhanced All-Defeating Stance.

---

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[X] "Never better."

[X] "Fine."


[X] "Just a moment."

[X] Overwhelm

[X] Whiteout [7 Arete]

[X] Pinnacle

[X] Pristine [7 Arete]
 
[X] "Never better."
Praxis? Praxis.
[X] Whiteout [7 Arete]
While I'm encouraging Hunger to follow the Forebear, I may as well follow the path of peerless might...
 
[X] "Never better."
[X] Overwhelm

P O W E R
O
W
E
R


Turns out all I needed to see SORD gang's light was an entire update of Forebear goodness. Yowza, what an intense story. I was actually a bit worried that Rihaku would encounter trouble scaling into higher stuff, but that's a silly concern in retrospect.
I'm a bit in favor of Overwhelm over Pinnacle because I feel that we're Rank-heavy in the build right now. I also want ADS real bad, and this would be fantastic for it.

Not that Pinnacle would be bad mine you, those stats are also extremely juicy.
 
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So, uh, apparently King of Winter does do something. Whoo boy.

It would be hard for me to vote for Just a Moment. Even though I agree that the Forebear's mindest isn't conducive to well-being, the aversion to it seems excessive. Hm. And I don't agree with Fine that the similarities are only aesthetic, despite liking how it stays the course on Blade upgrades. Never Better is too fanboyish, but I'm only really concerned by the possibility of Mental Contamination leading to more Mental Contamination... hm.

[X] "Fine."
[X] Overwhelm
[X] Whiteout [7 Arete]
 
[X] "Never better."

King of Winter merits further consideration, but let's just get never better off to a well-deserved early lead. Unlocking Once and Future 2: Electric Boogaloo is incredibly valuable, letting us purchase it at any spending point where we have the picks and Arete. Nor are the characterization implications unpleasant, the Forebear made the best of horrible circumstances. While the nature of the Procession differs from Hunger's combination of Curses, the lessons are still applicable. If Hunger's truly his reincarnation, what purpose does internal strife serve? The external world contains threats aplenty, no need to go war against his own panoply. Will is a limited resource; a house divided against itself cannot stand.
 
>Pick Never Better
>Don't buy improved version, Save
>Don't buy ADS, Save
>Generate More Arete
>Buy OaF II after slaying Armament Fish

That risk of death, tho. Delay on Pillars isn't terribly good either.
 
[X] "Just a moment."
[X] Pinnacle
[X] Pristine [7 Arete]

I'm interested in seeing where walking our own path gets us. As power levels go up, diversity of tools is a good thing, and we are more than just the hand that holds The Sword.
 
Alright boys, remember, we currently need to get:

Exalted Spirits(1 pick)
Honing(2 pick)
Tenfold(3 pick + 1 pick for Echo)
Iridescence(1 pick + 1 pick for Opalescence)
DA pick(4 pick)

That's 13 picks before we get into all other stuff we snag along the way. Basically, we are really starved for picks right now. You know what's a good way to get picks?

That's right, Pillars. You know what also helps with Mental Stability stuff? Yup, Pillars.

Pillars are kinda really important for us to get, and to get them we gotta SAVE. As such, do consider getting unupgraded Winter King - we really don't need those upgrades at the moment, especially as we plan on getting ADS either way, so let's make the best out of what time with Arete bonus we have left and try to SAVE for Pillars!

[X] "Never better."
[X] Overwhelm


That's right boys, SAVEing is back on menu!
 
I really want Fine because as much as the Forebear sounds badass his path is not something I would want to see Hunger follow.

It is a path of the Uttermost. Of one that simply cuts down all opposition and keeps moving ever forward and pushing through anything that gets in the way of that progress.

Plus while the Benefit of Opening Once and Future II is enticing there are other options we are already aiming for such as Ruling Ring and Pillars of Creation. We can find ways to open up Once and Future in the future. As it is we have several EFB that we should get before getting OaF II.
 
One of Hunger's Strengths is quite literally extreme charisma and he just finished a negotiation to a draw with a pro he just learned a lot from, he is more than an ambulatory sword and if he continues on his current road it's entirely possible he'll be just as deadly socially as he is martially. In this sense, Hunger is not the Forebear. A sufficiently scaled Hunger given his current patterns could have actually talked to the Ur-Mother and had good prospects for coming out ahead. The Geas is not the procession and there's significantly more room for talking to people.

Just a Moment Synergizes with Pillars of Creation, Total Eclipse, and other Evening Sky 25 Arete options that now have a value exceeding 25 Arete that may appear. Willpower, for those who may have forgotten, upgrades Strength, Constitution, and Agility also. Pristine will enable us to pull some truly ridiculous Refinement of Place abuse in the future I bet.

We just spent 25 Arete on more immediate power. Why not get more competence to help us use it?

[x]"Just a moment"
[x]Pristine

@BrainInAJar care to join me on Just a Moment/Pristine or will you veto?
 
[X] "Just a moment."

Going with this for now. I find the idea of thinking deeply upon what Hunger's own path more interesting than simply following in the Forbearer's footstep, and I like it more than just continuing on our current path if with somewhat more of an idea of what drinking of the Forbearer's Blade will actually do to us. Furthermore I think this is actually more of a Forbearery path than doubling down because it lets us learn our own lessons and come to our own conclusions instead of instantly jumping to a mindstate closer to the forbear. Hunger might eventually reach a similar stage worn down by The eternity he has to face and the curses he bears, but should he not try to be better to be the person who could have at least listened to the ur mother to judge what she has to say in full confidence that he could properly weigh it against the horror of what she has actually built even despite what l ever capacities the ur mother might have. I think this is the path to the most dynamic hunger and I do want to see the ways we could take this.

Also I think it makes the choice to keep taking forbear picks more fun in its own way because of the conflict between want and need.
 
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"Evil is necessary as a contrast for good to be meaningful" is something I've heard before in the real world, even if I vehemently disagree.
I think knowledge of evil is necessary in order to appreciate good for what it is. Erm. Possibly she's claiming that her multiverse is lower on the symbol-referent ladder than reality - or in other words, she may be saying that since the super-hells she's made are fictional, it's wrong to destroy them!
More likely though, she just thinks evil is part of a neat aesthetic.
The connection is that if you're real good at casting curses, you don't just curse the Accursed one time and then never again, you curse anyone and everyone you feel like cursing. You curse random people as practice and to test out variant curses. You curse people for laughs, because suffering is funny. You curse people who annoy you. You curse any actual enemies you have. You curse people ironically. "You're a hero? Here's Procession and an infinite supply of heroing to do, have fun with that, now fuck off. We'll meet again in a trillion years once you reach the bottom-most layer of hell, aka right here in front of me."
Well, remember that cursing isn't traditionally random. It can follow inheritance-lines, and be stumbled into completely on accident, but there's always an explanation for why the cursing-agent might be angry, or it isn't a curse. I like to think of them as metaphysical debts - not always justly collected, but there's a reason so much scripture and fable is about unjust lenders!
 
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