I'm just kind of surprised at the dramatic collapse of the Long Voyage bloc.

The only thing that changed since the previous was the introduction of Adorie. Maybe the thread was really threatened by the presence of a character who might compete with Gisena in the Banter department.

After all, a vote to leave the VR is a vote to leave Adorie behind. She can only stand up to Gisena if we stay nearby to check in occasionally...
 
Since I haven't been able to figure out what the fark I want, I'm willing to sell my vote for a veto-free marker from somebody I don't currently have any markers from.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Wolfy on Aug 21, 2020 at 6:51 PM, finished with 177 posts and 45 votes.
 
[X] Once and Future I
[X] The Decimation
[X] The Long Voyage


I've changed my thinking a bit, now I feel letting Hunger TP off alone/with Verschle (If we're worried the tether will break) to sate the decimation is the way to go. Give the rest of the characters a chance for the cream to rise to top on their own so we know who is worth being in the teleport worthy group.
 
Man, the power of the color red is real. Can we overcome this vote-consuming crimson? Stay tuned next time to find out~

Exalted Spirit has appeared many, many times and been left behind every time. OTOH, so has OaF. But Exalted Spirit unlocks new shinies and I am shiny gang. Winter King is also shiny though. Hm...

[X] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Decimation


Ultimately, what it comes down to is that the AllSpirit build gets a lot of Wisdom, which Hunger could probably use, and also Exalted Spirit unlocks Lunar Coronet, which I really loved back in the day.

Also, weren't a lot of people unhappy about Hunger's "Who Dares, Wins" attitude towards ruling? AllSpirit explicitly gives the opportunity to change that.

Decimation because Rihaku made a post warning about it, and because AllSpirit is weaker in combat, getting some more pick from Decimation Mitigation would help with that a bit.

I like The Long Voyage and Priority Two equally, so not even going to bother with picking one.

I will note that the Lord Protector has been proven to be exceptionally dangerous, so I can absolutely understand people voting for OaF+Lord Protector to get rid of him as fast as possible.

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Finally, I will point out that I'm still travelling. I'll be online for a few more hours tonight, but tomorrow I'll be absent most of the day, and may have limited time to read & post when I do show up. Anyone who wants to call in a marker should keep that in mind.
 
Mental stats for better strats, minus heartlessness, we get to avoid decimating a major population center, AND we can reroll Hunger's ideals? Count me in~

[X] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Decimation
[X] The Long Voyage


C'mon, where are all the people who were all 'yeah, we're totes gonna turn around and find another source of mitigation' now? S'not exactly great for Hunger's character to just assume it'll all work out, if he gets bogged down fighting the war that's gonna do a loooot of damage to Nilfel. Ads gives 5% deci mitigation, if Hunger pops his cloak's cd that should make finding a target easy. More apoc insurance can't hurt either, no way are we avoiding an interrupt in this arc.
 
[X] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Decimation
[X] The Long Voyage

"Quack... Quack Quack- Quack! Quack Quack, Quack Quack-Quack Quack. Quack Quack Quack, Qua-Quack Quack? QUACK!!!"
 
I think we should vote Decimation too, but seeing that as a reason to pick up A-DS now of all times doesn't make sense to me at all. Since we'd be choosing our target after this no matter what EFB is chosen, all of the options offered will account for it and therefore we will likely have similar odds no matter what. And again, saving A-DS is better because it's snap-buyable; if we plan to overwhelm our next target with a sudden onrush of power that's what we need to have in the bank. Getting it now is just bad timing, since the Curse would be able to account for it.

Once and Future gives us the most power against the Lord Protector and it's still something we can choose towards exploiting with our target selection. The benefits of A-DS right now are just incredibly diffuse and uncertain, while the benefits of Once and Future answer our problems in a perfectly satisfactory manner. Please don't give up the incredible power of Once and Future for basically side stuff. Let's finish our build here and finally be the safest we can be at this moment. Just hold for this single temptation and it will be that.

Again, I don't think Once and Future is any worse than A-DS for Decimation hunting; but even if it was I would like you to vote for it anyway since it finally completes the build we've committed to since we chose Core Panoply. The opportunity cost of passing this here is too high given the decrease in our recent activity. If we are once again distracted by side stuff while finally having to combination of picks and Arete necessary I don't think we will be able to purchase it for the foreseeable future.

The very reason we chose Breach was so we could get the pick for Once and Future; A-DS doesn't need it. If we were going to pick A-DS anyway we could have done so last vote and been in much better position, either through a more successful negotiation or just letting Gisena take her on. But we choose Breach; why literally refuse to take it's greatest benefit? This is absolutely insane to me. We'd literally get the worst of both worlds. Why vote to throw away this incredible opportunity we have for stuff we can get latter anyway, at a far lesser opportunity cost? I just don't get it at all.
 
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Aobaru blanched. "Whoa, don't go calling me the Chosen One like that! I'm still just plain old Aobaru, Aeira!"

"But your destiny is to be a powerful theme park manager," Aeira smiled teasingly. "All right... Roller Boy."
Aeira's ambushing people in conversations now? Good going Gisena, keep corrupting your adorable kohai~
Time for a blast to the past!
Hnnng, oh my god the freakin' FEELS. Happy, relaxed Uly is everything I never knew I needed, all I want to do is protect those two oblivious idiots and their smiles
 
Hmm. Independently of what wins here, we won't have much time to resolve our Decimator target, so I'll try to list up a few ideas in regards to that, no matter how crazy they are.

1. Mitigate.

It had already been proposed several times, but that isn't surprising, given that it is our most reliable means of dealing with our Curses. Be it through ADS or Silver's perfect defense, we already have access to some opportunity for Mitigation, though each is restricted in their own way. Plus we don't know just how Mitigation of that kind will affect the Sated timer.

Thinking about it, a relatively simpler solution has presented itself to me. Why don't we just try to... Mitigate the Decimator the normal way instead of pursuing its challenge? We only have a single stage of Mitigation for it right now, unless I'm forgetting something, and while Rihaku had once described the difference between mitigating Slumber to 14(?) hours and 12 hours as one between the efforts of an archmage and the output of a universe, the specifics of a power employed against the Curses seem to matter too. We could just try to look for an Artifact or magic that specializes in dealing with Curses. Huntress' Moon challenges are guaranteed to scale in difficulty, Mitigation opportunities aren't.

I obviously don't know what's available in the Voyaging Realm, but one would hope there would be some solutions we could scry. Or maybe a summoned Astral denizen would know something?

2. Appease.

There are roughly two main factors of Decimator: its goal and its function.

The first is easy, it's a Curse, its purpose is making our life miserable, sometimes in quite subtle ways. Such can be discerned from the demand to destroy the Opalescent Tower, since that appears to have been an integral part of the Empyrean Mantle and its disappearance would have deprived our third Artifact of a major part of its potential. Not an insurmountable blow, since we have Progression, but still aimed at depriving us of future opportunities. Well, and throwing us into danger, since it's in the Realm of Myth, but that goes without saying.

It's function is wide-scale draining of life around us, both to endanger us by attracting unwanted attention and aggression, and to make us guilty for causing such. Huntress' Moon targets seem to Sate the Affliction by absorbing the lifeforce of targets too sometime, as seen from the example of the pirate. We don't have enough samples to say for sure, of course, so more research will be required in the future.

So what do I mean by appeasement? Well, we can try to think of what the Curse 'wants' or how it works and try to Sate it that way. Either by making ourselves miserable in ways that are connected to the Curse yet don't impact anyone else (like in the sometimes offered suggestion of letting it drain Hunger) or by somehow kicking the Affliction into overdrive and pointing it at targets we don't care about as much. Don't know whether draining some uninhabited plot of land would really appease it, but maybe we could also find some really evil place in the Voyaging Realm and commit our atrocities there. If there's a Realm of Myth, surely there is also a hellish Realm of some kind.

We could also try to guide it into picking targets we want to kill soon anyway, but I'm doubtful of this possibility.

3. Overpower.

Rihaku suggested once that we could take Pennant and OaF to bring our Blood Rank up to ~12, which would allow us to briefly access all sorts of broken effects that would normally be impossible. Like simply prolonging the life of everything in our Decimation radius enough that it offsets our Affliction. There were some problems with the solution, plus we don't have Pennant, but the idea of offsetting the Curse through Blood magic has merit. We just need to make it work without such high Blood Rank.

Perhaps we could transmit all the old and inform outside the affected area and promise everyone that stays that we will Ennoble them later. It sounds enormously difficult, but the logistics that would stump a modern government may be made possible in the Realm of Myth. Doing so in two days - less even, since we need to conquer the place first - doesn't really sound feasible, but a drowning man would even grasp a straw.

4. Ask an expert.

We've neglected Verschlengorge quite a bit in the course of our quest, but I think an Armament that had carried this Curse for aeons might have some sort of advice to offer. It doesn't necessarily share our morality, but hopefully it will still be willing to part with some experience or even help us Mitigate the Curse. I find it hard to believe that the Foremost didn't keep Mitigation in mind when making these things, though I'm not too optimistic about this, seeing how we haven't gotten any input from him or Letrizia so far.

Alternatively, there is another expert on Curses who has accompanied us from the very beginning of our adventure. And no, I'm not talking about Gisena. I'm hesitant to suggest this, since the very idea seems pretty insane, but... who better to give us advice on how to handle an unruly Affliction than a Crowning Curse? We could attempt to make a deal with Apocrypha, in that she will help us resolve our next Decimator target in return for making our life more interesting. I have no idea what such negotiations would entail, and I'm fairly certain this fall's under the column of 'satisfying thirst by drinking poison', but it's nonetheless a possibility for when were truly out of options.

-------

There are likely other options that haven't occurred to me, but I leave writing those up to someone else. Hopefully we can resolve this problem without too many losses and learn a valuable lesson about timely Mitigation from it.

1002 Words
 
[X] The Decimation
[X] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Long Voyage

The Procrastinator: A power greater than Progression and the Praxis both, it is the favored system of the Accursed' nemesis, spawned foremost from his Curse of the Rival and empowered by his other curses. It is laziness made manifest, the power of effort unspent, potential unrealized. Fear the procrastinator, for they grow in strength as fast as the most frantic Progression-type whilst doing precisely nothing.
 
One thing that makes me sad is that we won't be able to waifu anyone since the end goal will be to revive our dead wife, and unborn child as well as killing the secret puppeteers. This is gonna disregard Rihaku giving us flashbacks of when she's alive which will assuredly and inevitably guilt us away from that path.

Just rediscovered this. Gotta say I'm really glad I was disproved.
 
Talk about Hunger past,My headcanon is Hunger is the sport jock choice that we abandon him and choose Seram instead.


His potential is a lot lower than Seram but made up by will power and charisma.
 
[X] The Decimation
[X] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Long Voyage

Huh, ADS is almost competitive? I'll cry because we could have gotten it last update, but I shouldn't let that control my current actions. And maybe, if we make a fight of this, we'll end up with enough Arete to grab it anyway? Nah.
 
Some Decimation thoughts, starting with the Curse itself.

[ ] The Decimator's Affliction - You will naturally absorb the total fundamental life force of the realm you currently inhabit at a rate of 10% per year. Area affected is exceptionally large and scales with your own power; a weak Progression-type might only affect half a continent, while a Combat-type would affect an entire solar system. In the absence of sufficient life force, you will begin to bleed essence, losing components of your powers, skills, identity, memories, and ontological veracity at a proportional rate. Though there are many paths of mitigation available, none of them are pleasant or easy.

In ancient roman times, a Decimation was a form of Roman military discipline in which every tenth man in a group was executed. So naturally this takes 10% of life force per year.

"Hunger. Technically I'm a City Lord, but they've likely had me deposed."

As he spoke, he felt the essence of the ring shift, become his in full, interlacing its nature with his own. Now, like a ring of power, he would only grow mightier and more cunning with time. Age would have no purchase upon him, and even the Tyrant's curse that had stolen his youth would be reversed and superseded. He hoped that taking this name would also bind the Decimator's Affliction, allowing him to exert some measure of control over it. That would be a priority in the near future.

Here we see Hunger picking his name. Both ring and curse deal with life force so the name Hunger works well for both. It also hints at the ring being a potential source of future Decimation mitigation.

As the man died a new sensation emerged from the ring, an onrushing infusion of blood and vigor, vitality wound so tightly within him that it seemed fit to burst. Hunger, and the Curse of Hunger, the Affliction of the Decimator that drained life from the world, would be sated for a time.

The pirate sates Decimation. Notice that the source of the vitality that sates the Decimation comes via the ring.

[ ] The Tyrant Beast - Of course the Apocryphal Curse would strike once again when he was wounded and separated from his allies. Nonetheless Hunger mustered all his remaining strength to oppose the creature which reminded him so much of the man he gave everything to slay. Its towering bulk, its claws like drawn sabers, its scales like congealed lead - all paled before the glint of cold experience in its eye, evaluating him as rival or prize.

Reduced % of Apocryphal Curse for 2 weeks
Resets A Hunger, Sated (gain ~2 days)

A potential target. Like the pirate, it superficially resembles the Tyrant.

[ ] Decimator - Huntress' Moon: Impairs all conventional mitigation attempts by 40%, but dramatically increases the number and availability of targets for A Hunger, Sated. Targets will always be at least minimally challenging or in some way exceptional.

Huntress's moon seems to refer to Artimis, the female goddess of the moon and hunting (among other things). She is a fertility goddess that kills things. One time she demanded human sacrifice but then changed her mind and let a deer die instead.

It's not clear what relationship Artimis has with Decimation or why her name is invoked here. Maybe it's just a colorful way to say that Hunger is a divine hunter now?

Before we took this option both Decimation targets closely resembled the Tyrant. It was only after taking this advancement and expanding valid targets for Decimation that we started to see things like tower-destruction and fishing as valid targets.

Note that the requirements for Huntress' Moon do include notability or challenge, but by themselves do not suffice. For example, you could have to target a highly guarded nobleperson, or a prominent artist of some kind.

Please note that it's notability OR challenge, meaning that having both is not strictly required. Also, while challenge implies the possibility of failure, failure does not always mean death. Sometimes it just means that your fish gets away.

I think that we can safely assume that when Rihaku says 'target' he generally means killing.

[ ] Wolf Moon - 'Ber' becomes a valid target for A Hunger, Sated.

A wolf moon is the first full moon of the year. It's a time of cold and hunger and danger, apparently full of howling wolves. Perhaps the name simply refers to the general slump Hunger was caught in?

[ ] The Contest of Ages - The Republic-sponsored trade city of Valenheim is hosting its biannual fishing contest. A long-time trade partner of the Sovereignty, Valenheim boasts a cosmopolitan gothic appeal and several of the most dangerous fish species known to Voyaging man.

*Huntress' Moon Target: Triumph. Hunger must achieve victory in the Biannual FIshing Contest, which attracts all and sundry from a large swathe of Voyaging Realm civilizations. Note this may entail following rules, or somehow overcoming them; short of catching the unambiguously most impressive fish, the subjective judgement of arbiters could also be a hurdle, as Hunger is not the most personable of individuals when subjected to the demands of others... to say nothing of the potential for politicking and sabotage.
*Errantry potential: Modest. May yield up to .1 Base Rank upon completing, depending on actions taken.
*Distance: Near. Estimated 7-10 days to completion.

[ ] The Opalescent Tower - Deep in the fastness of a hidden valley at the furthermost reaches of the Voyaging Realm is a kingdom whose princess was imprisoned in a tower of opalescent sky by a Tyrant of unfathomable malice. The magic of this place is the stuff of foundational myth, its lidless Arcanist's walls piercing earth, cloud, firmament and vastness to sunder its borders clear of the greater Realm. Yet to a voyaging warrior of Hunger's legend, even such obstacles as these may be overcome.

*Huntress' Moon Target: The Tower of Sky. Neither princess nor Tyrant must be slain, but the tower itself destroyed, ground into earth and rendered into ash and dust.
*Errantry potential: High. May yield up to .175 Base Rank upon completion, depending on actions taken.
*Distance: Far. Estimated 14-21 days to completion; half that with the Decimation Lens.
*May encounter additional magic systems or legendary Artifacts worthy of being wielded by one's self or one's allies.

Two more targets, our first after Huntress' moon expanded our available targets.

All targets so far have had an emotional connection. The pirate looked like the Tyrant, the Tyrant beast was obvious, Ber and his party mirrored Hunger and his party in uncomfortable ways, and the personal importance of the fishing contest are obvious. Like Unelemental mentioned, the personal connection for the tower seems to be with our cloak, which wants very much to be reunited with the tower. The curse doesn't seem all that concerned with whether the personal connection is positive or negative, just that it exists in some way.

...

I was wondering how, exactly, taking the ring as both jewelry and name helped Hunger deal with the Decimation.

The first trick is obvious; Decimation steals life force, and the Ring has Life as its chief dominion, so it's only natural Hunger would be able to use his power over life to manipulate the Decimation. As evidence notice that normally the effect of Decimation is invisible and it's impossible to see where the life force stolen goes, but when Hunger force-feeds it with a Decimation target the energy being devoured is visible and can be seen being absorbed by the Ring.

Naming himself Hunger increased his compatibility with the ring, which also increased his ability to use the Ring to sate Decimation. Gisena is something like 95% compatible so she is still separate from her ring; Hunger IS the ring, he states this in the text in "Red of Sky and Fang" so his compatibility is 100%.

I also think that he's sacrificing things other than just life force to the curse. Looking again at the description of Decimation, it's mentioned that in absence of life force Decimation feeds on Hunger directly, taking "essence... powers, skills, identity, memories, and ontological veracity". So what Hunger is doing when he kills a Decimation target is that he's using the Ring of Life to force-feed Decimation bits of himself, something it would normally only do if it had no other targets. And since he controls the feeding he can insure it only feeds on things that don't matter much.

For most of the Decimation targets so far Hunger has been feeding Decimation experiences that are tied deeply into his "identity, memories", like the pirate, Tyrant beast, fishing, and Ber. The Tower is different; the connection here is that it's tied to his Cape, so he's feeding Decimation some of his "powers... skills", or at least the potential for power.

Sating Decimation with deeply emotionally impactful and personal experiences seems ideal since I'd rather not sacrifice powers or trillions of people. Catching a fish, cooking it, and eating it seems like the ideal Decimation mitigation scenario, but perhaps time will reveal other aspects of Hunger's personality that we can explore in Decimation mitigation scenarios.

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[X] Once and Future I

smh how are people still passing up on OaF after ten votes involving it? Is sticking to the Plan just that unappealing? ADS has always been less powerful than OaF so what is with the sudden surge in interest for it? It's not even an Advancement available only at this point, we've had it unlocked for so long (but OaF unlocked for even longer!).

SMH
 
ADS is getting a bit too much traction for my liking. So I suppose it's time to start widening the distance.
@DkArthas I'm calling in one of my markers. Vote for OaF, Protector, and Voyage.
 
Decimation's centered around hunger/death/decay, so killing's fine if there's also risk involved for us, but kicking the legs out from under a civilization works too. The point is that we're introducing more entropy into the world to stave off our personal aura of decay. The name of the buff is 'A Hunger, Sated'; specifically the hunger for destruction. The fishing contest is a red herring, if you'll forgive the pun, but I think there would've been complications on that route as well.

I know this post was a million years ago but basically I think that the Fishing contest sates Decimation by feeding it Hunger himself, via a deeply personal experience. Feeding on life force is destructive because to get someone's life force you have to kill them, but to get someone's experience of fishing you just have to fish next to them. Or mostly non-destructive fashion; the fish still dies and gets eaten.
 
A consideration for Voyage vs Priority Two that hasn't been brought up. Will one of them give us bigger odds of needing something like Dead but Dreaming? Death insurance or sufficiently ridoncoulous scaling that fate can't make us die as Aobaru's doomed mentor? How do the powers interact there? Right now I don't know/am not in a headspace to do more than bring the angle up.
 
I can't believe A-DS has more than 5 votes, much less 22 of them. Is this some sort of karmic backlash caused by it's original loss all those updates ago? Is this what those who argued for A-DS felt at the time?

Literally, one option makes us stronger than our most dangerous opponent at this moment, and the other does not. Prioritizing side-stuff like more mitigation or the salty runback of our Philosophy of Rule absolutely doesn't make any sense to me since the last time we underestimated the Lord Protector we had to choose between the death of one of our companions, permanent unhealable injuries or our current problem of eventually facing a rival Cursebearer or someone of similar potential. All of that was with a 98. Do you want to keep having these same choices imposed on us?

We absolutely need power now that we committed ourselves against him. Lateral stuff won't be enough if the actual main part of our build isn't up to snuff.

I'm actually having difficulty arguing against this because I just don't see what's so attractive about it. Is once again relitigating the rulership salt worth another roll for terrible consequences? Is it worth literally gambling that Hunger and Co. think of a solution we can't when a solution is in fact right in front us and immediately available?

It's not like Once and Future would only be useful here; in fact, it's better than A-DS in general! It's the payoff for the build we committed to once we choose Core Panoply. It immediately breaches us to High Rank at 8.4, 9.4 in all military matters, which includes the campaign against the Lord Protector! We'd have 10+ Rank in Bloodcasting too, which discord statements imply would allow us for much more things that wouldn't normally be mechanically available.

We are not playing chess with the Lord Protector here, we are fighting a war. We will need to fight him even if we choose to prioritize Decimation here, as we just agreed. One choice prepares us against him much better then the other, and it literally states this. It's the choice between improved lateral action versus just being outright favored against him, it's quite the gap.

And, y'know, A-DS is also cheaper and requires no picks, meaning we can buy it much easier at a later point than Once and Future; and it would even remain buyable even in a emergency due to only costing Arete, something that cannot be said of Once and Future.

Really, I've made all these arguments before, but I actually don't understand why voting for A-DS would be a good idea, so I can only repeat myself. Maybe I'll have some sort of epiphany tomorrow, who knows.
 
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