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A Simple Transaction I

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Clarifying my earlier bit, two progression pluses is one order of magnitude based on Rihaku's remark about how the ring of hunger vs Ruling Ring works(A Simple Transaction I Original).

We have two progression pluses to picks acquired through conflict with stakes right now based on that.

Aobaru would have one progression plus if we took The Long Voyage. One progression plus to growth rate combined with an up to 3x advancement rate multiplier if we somehow got Philosopher's Wreath. How close might that be to the Ring of Hunger level growth rate we currently have?
 
DkArthas said:
We have already indirectly mitigated Tyrant's Doom in an lot of ways, through Inherit the World, Triumphal Gleam and insane amount of charisma and rank that we can modulate, I think we will be fine.

I also think part of the thread has been growing tired of the side quests and Voyaging Realm, it would be nice if we actually get to see the human Sphere in this quest.
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We're going back to the bottom of the totem pole. It's one thing to have the Tyrant in check for Princess Adorie. But Hunger will be dealing with the 11,436,592,388th most important government clerk in charge of Hunting Licenses. And if we snap and kill the baseline mortal human with our strength out of myth, the arrest warrant covers about 1/3 of the galaxy.

Sci fi is fun and cool, and I'll be excited to see our mages out in the galaxy. But Hunger can't even travel in space without perfect mitigation for decimator's affliction. I think there is plenty of room to collect cool and exciting assets in the VR before we go. Like Pillars, for example!

As for side-quests, it's hard to see how "united the VR and take control of the Galaxy's entire population of Superweapons" qualifies as a side plot. I really like the setting and characters that we have seen so far. Hunger is making personal connections and recovering from the wounds to his mind and body. That's central to the real main quest of killing the Hidden masters.
 
I saw this argument earlier and it bears repeating.

We open up diplomatic relations to make the Voyaging Realm a full signatory member of the Human Sphere, it's under our control, how much of the Human Sphere would we then need to take over?
 
On Aobaru's growth rate:
Rihaku said:
Assuming Aobaru will have weaker scaling in the short-term... a dangerous risk to take!
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Though assuming just two Progression +s and a 7 Arete advancement would be enough is a bit premature. The Ring's base dectupling of of Progression during conflicts (equivalent to ++Progression) works off our base Progression, and the there's simply no way other people can compare in potential to that unless they have access to something equivalent to a spark of Accursed's own potential. Somehow I doubt that is common. Still, that our Progression is superior to anything else over the very long-term doesn't mean other such aptitude enhancers can't outscale us over the short term. Presumably Aobaru can do that with some work?..
 
Zampano said:
We're going back to the bottom of the totem pole. It's one thing to have the Tyrant in check for Princess Adorie. But Hunger will be dealing with the 11,436,592,388th most important government clerk in charge of Hunting Licenses. And if we snap and kill the baseline mortal human with our strength out of myth, the arrest warrant covers about 1/3 of the galaxy.

Sci fi is fun and cool, and I'll be excited to see our mages out in the galaxy. But Hunger can't even travel in space without perfect mitigation for decimator's affliction. I think there is plenty of room to collect cool and exciting assets in the VR before we go. Like Pillars, for example!

As for side-quests, it's hard to see how "united the VR and take control of the Galaxy's entire population of Superweapons" qualifies as a side plot. I really like the setting and characters that we have seen so far. Hunger is making personal connections and recovering from the wounds to his mind and body. That's central to the real main quest of killing the Hidden masters.
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I don't see why Hunger can't travel in space with Huntress Moon mitigation active?

And, the entire superweapon to control Armaments is only a possibility, There is no certainty that something like that exists. we won't be conquering the Voyaging Realm either, we will be going to the center of VR to help Aobaru achieve his destiny most likely, I suppose it might be possible to do that in the aftermath. But conquering the VR is an deed that's likely far harder than conquering the Voyaging Realm, just look at the size difference!
 
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DkArthas said:
I don't see why Hunger can't travel in space with Huntress Moon mitigation active?
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He totally could. HM shut off the curse for a month the first time we used it. Will it always be a month? Is there a HM target on every single planet? How far apart are planets?

Getting stuck on a backwater planet with no HM target and a slowspaceship is a potential Bad End. An obstacle that can be overcome, sure. But it will require us to plan ahead carefully. And it will put constraints on what we can do / what risks we can take
 
Zampano said:
He totally could. HM shut off the curse for a month the first time we used it. Will it always be a month? Is there a HM target on every single planet? How far apart are planets?

Getting stuck on a backwater planet with no HM target and a slowspaceship is a potential Bad End. An obstacle that can be overcome, sure. But it will require us to plan ahead carefully. And it will put constraints on what we can do / what risks we can take
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We know that we can easily increase the mitigation to 2 years with 7 arete and who knows about the 24 arete option. And, the idea we will be stuck is laughable, we have access to Praxis and Signs, we will likely have ways to get teleportation. Hell, just take Refinement of Place or upgrade Nightmare Flight somehow, I think Rihaku hinted it's possible.


You are also forgetting about the Ring War, you know Apo-chan is going to start that exactly when it hurts the most! I would rather defuse that enter thing rather thing have one of our artifacts depowered in middle of the Long Voyage.
 
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[X] Once and Future I
[X] The Decimation
[X] The Long Voyage

I've decided to respect @Zampano's arguments in this matter. If Letrizia really doesn't feel like going back, I won't force her. So let's solve this plot first. What Rains May come is also a pretty good Advancement highly useful no matter what we choose to prioritize. So, let's get this damn theme park reopened already.
 
DkArthas said:
We know that we can easily increase the mitigation to 2 years with 7 arete and who knows about the 24 arete option. And, the idea we will be stuck is laughable, we have access to Praxis and Signs, we will likely have ways to get teleportation. Hell, just take Refinement of Place or upgrade Nightmare Flight somehow, I think Rihaku hinted it's possible.


You are also forgetting about the Ring War, you know Apo-chan is going to start that exactly when it hurts the most! I would rather defuse that enter thing rather thing have one of our artifacts depowered.
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We have never been offered a Hunger Sated again. We are not entitled to any other particular unlock. Huntress Moon made other mitigation more difficult, and difficulty climbs with each tier of mitigation. Tier one is the output of a single magus, and tier two requires something like the power of a whole universe.

The thread is torn about exposing one country (with very high population) to Decimation for a few days. Will the thread be happy about decimating an entire planet (or solar system) for the weeks or months that might be required to get enough Praxis picks?
 
Zampano said:
We have never been offered a Hunger Sated again. We are not entitled to any other particular unlock. Huntress Moon made other mitigation more difficult, and difficulty climbs with each tier of mitigation. Tier one is the output of a single magus, and tier two requires something like the power of a whole universe.

The thread is torn about exposing one country (with very high population) to Decimation for a few days. Will the thread be happy about decimating an entire planet (or solar system) for the weeks or months that might be required to get enough Praxis picks?
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A Hunger sated is how Moon Huntress mitigation works buddy. I am confident we will be getting those choices again.

If the two methods are not enough for you, just get fucking Pillar. It's like you think Hunger is an complete idiot, we will have an chance to get those thing before mitigation ends. The point is also we have endless ways to deal with this particular problems.
 
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The Long Voyage is very good for immediate power because we have long term wound penalties that can immediately be reversed by What Rains May Come. We still have a week or so to go on Punctured Soul: -5% to +5% physical, -10% to +10% mental and -15% to +15% mental effectiveness. The synergy with an undermining approach to the Lord Protector is obvious. We also have True Maiming for a CON and poison/disease resistance boost and the Lung and Eye for +???.
 
Come on guys, Hunting down someone like Lord Protector is going to take an lot of time and someone as competent as him probably has an back up plan to escape if he gets cornered. I very much suspect that we won't be able to kill him in an couple of days, it also takes time for troops to mobilize and march, Eruntael won't be ready to go after The Lord Protector that soon. We will likely also be forced into reckless actions because of Decimator, and if he knows about that, he will take advantage.

What we need to do is get Decimator's Mitigation so that we have enough time to defeat the Lord Protector.
 
noliar said:
The Long Voyage is very good for immediate power because we have long term wound penalties that can immediately be reversed by What Rains May Come. We still have a week or so to go on Punctured Soul: -5% to +5% physical, -10% to +10% mental and -15% to +15% mental effectiveness. The synergy with an undermining approach to the Lord Protector is obvious. We also have True Maiming for a CON and poison/disease resistance boost and the Lung and Eye for +???.
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Are wound penalties the same thing as complications? I thought Rains only applied to damage taken during a fight.

But, looking at the situation we're in, making a long-term commitment for an immediate boost is still pretty attractive...
 
noliar said:
The Long Voyage is very good for immediate power because we have long term wound penalties that can immediately be reversed by What Rains May Come. We still have a week or so to go on Punctured Soul: -5% to +5% physical, -10% to +10% mental and -15% to +15% mental effectiveness. The synergy with an undermining approach to the Lord Protector is obvious. We also have True Maiming for a CON and poison/disease resistance boost and the Lung and Eye for +???.
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We already Ignore Wound Penalties thanks to hijacking Sten's stained glass shadow soul invocation, so the increase here is much less than you think.
 
I mean, a percentage increase in our physical capabilities is still really strong, you know?

Since we now always operate at least at 100% until death, WRMC is not quite as ridiculous as it was before, but there is no need to just shrug it off either.

Rihaku said:
You should also consider What Rains May Come. You have a lot of stats points so a multiplier like What Rains can offer more value than marginal stats in most cases (Vigor is an exception with its massive Protection increase). What Rains is your only chance to potentially get +60-70% in relevant stats before facing the Immortals, and since it doesn't spend any Arete you can potentially buy Hero-Defeating Stance alongside!
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Penitent did slash actual impact of WRMC roughly in two as we no longer suffer from negatives of wound penalties, but positives are still there, and are nothing to sneer at.

Especially if you are acquring a bit blob of stats. Like, for example, ADS.
 
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Rihaku said:
World-Defeating Stance - 7 Arete
+.2 Rank, ++Luck, ++Intelligence, ++Protection

++++++Protection further against environmental harms, including from incompatible or hostile physics and metaphysics.
*Shelters wielder's powers from suppression or negation, even that resulting from a lack of magic or magical structures within the world.
*5x Power of Ruin against non-supernatural foes or phenomena beyond an human's ability to defeat.
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So hey, guys. I realized that my pipe dream of getting enough Arete for OaF and ADS isn't going to happen, but I figured that we could get some ++Int and Luck from WoDS if we push a bit. Accursed knows we could use all the help we could get right now. It also solves my "depowering" paranoia. And I'd forgotten about that +.2 Rank. But it probably doesn't stack with OaF? It'd get me closer to my happy ADS fantasies, at least.
 
Something's funky, got a spam warning for the tally. The thing itself looks fine, though.
Adhoc vote count started by Projectile on Aug 22, 2020 at 1:16 PM, finished with 242 posts and 54 votes.
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Mechanic concerns aside, do consider narrative of getting OaF and Winter King right now. We are about to take Adorie's Artifacts, then master them and combine them with might of Forebear's Blade, ascending to Winter King - and all of that will happen immediately.

This will recontextualize E's advice to grab items and, to some extent, justify our decision to take Tower.
 
Wolfy said:
Mechanic concerns aside, do consider narrative of getting OaF and Winter King right now. We are about to take Adorie's Artifacts, then master them and combine them with might of Forebear's Blade, ascending to Winter King - and all of that will happen immediately.

This will recontextualize E's advice to grab items and, to some extent, justify our decision to take Tower.
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Plus, it will be awesome. I need to get stronger, you say? Alright, let me bump up my martial Rank by 2.4 real quick. Thanks for the tip.
 
[X] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Decimation
[X] The Long Voyage

I have been convinced by Zampano regarding The Long Voyage.
 
Man, people keep referring to Zampano's argument, I should read it again with an eye towards being convinced.

I'd been interpreting Letrizia's reluctance to return largely as her giving into peer pressure and not wanting to disappoint her new friends, but that's probably only a small part of it. She's been relatively eager to defend the Empire when it comes up that I'd forgotten about the child soldier thing, a bit. Yeah, playing with magics wouldn't be so sad.
 
DkArthas said:
Come on guys, Hunting down someone like Lord Protector is going to take an lot of time and someone as competent as him probably has an back up plan to escape if he gets cornered. I very much suspect that we won't be able to kill him in an couple of days, it also takes time for troops to mobilize and march, Eruntael won't be ready to go after The Lord Protector that soon. We will likely also be forced into reckless actions because of Decimator, and if he knows about that, he will take advantage.

What we need to do is get Decimator's Mitigation so that we have enough time to defeat the Lord Protector.
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Hm, it's true that the Decimation could be a valuable asset for the Lord Protector if he's aware of it. It would certainly be a PR coup that he could use to cement his Legions' opposition to Hunger and by extension, Adorie's, regime!
 
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