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- He/Him
Good point. Sorry for the pings @Happerry, better for you (and anyone else watching/tracking) to wait till anybody else has spilled.
Arch-Demon's Eternal Game: Aeon Edition, The Turtle Chronicles
- Thread starter ComiTurtle
- Start date
- Mafia
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- Tags
- mafia
- Location
- US
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- He/Him
I probably won't be here for EoD and my attendance today is likely to be spotty, so I want to go ahead and make my argument for why we should actually carry through with an inactivity vote today instead of just threatening one. I don't like being the heavy and taking someone to task. I almost didn't post those and just let it slide, but that isn't fair to people actually playing the game.
After another poke, we get this:
Reliable is getting by by just floating under the radar being forgotten and that isn't how the game is played. I don't know if they are scum or not because I can't know, because they have contributed nothing. But if we permit this style of "play" then we open the door to lots of future games where town eats itself while scum don't post. Reliable has 19 posts total since the restart, all of them are short, many of them lack content, and the longer ones are justifications for why they haven't bothered defending their town reads, including themself.
I don't think we can let this stand just because they are hitting the literal minimum to avoid a modkill. If it was a single effort post or they hadn't been on line I might feel differently, but we got a one line promise of material that hasn't been forthcoming. I know there is no scum read (or any read) on Reliable, but I think we need to act to make sure that surviving without playing isn't an option in these games. Even if they are on your scum team, this isn't something we should allow. Even if they are town, I'm ready to vote them out.
This is the last of a string of posts Thursday where Reliable refuses to defend themself and pretty much states a disinterest in playing the game at all. They get a reprieve from the use of the Herald and a promise to actual contribute, after having been prodded by Happerry who asks for a write up on Scia or Shadell. This is their reply:
That was four and a half days ago. Reliable has been on SV as late as ten hours ago.
After another poke, we get this:
That was almost 60 hours ago, near start of day. We've heard nothing since and are now sub 12 hours till EoD.
Reliable is getting by by just floating under the radar being forgotten and that isn't how the game is played. I don't know if they are scum or not because I can't know, because they have contributed nothing. But if we permit this style of "play" then we open the door to lots of future games where town eats itself while scum don't post. Reliable has 19 posts total since the restart, all of them are short, many of them lack content, and the longer ones are justifications for why they haven't bothered defending their town reads, including themself.
I don't think we can let this stand just because they are hitting the literal minimum to avoid a modkill. If it was a single effort post or they hadn't been on line I might feel differently, but we got a one line promise of material that hasn't been forthcoming. I know there is no scum read (or any read) on Reliable, but I think we need to act to make sure that surviving without playing isn't an option in these games. Even if they are on your scum team, this isn't something we should allow. Even if they are town, I'm ready to vote them out.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Have a good night.
- Location
- United States
Okay, finally caught up. @Wiadi you wanted reads right?
In order of activity.
Nictis - idk. Definitely not fiend. If they are scum they have to be demon. There's a lot of big stuff here that seems suss, but then as I read through I end up inexplicably feeling better about this slot. The item pick stuff with Tykan felt genuine.
One thing I want to point out here is that according to @Nictis, if Tykan was town he'd have to have a firestarter. So in Nictis' town!Tykan!world Nictis would have just outed the towny with the unignited firestarter. Unless all the fiend steal were accounted for and I missed it, I do not feel great about this play.
Byzantine - survivorread since he claimed survivor and I don't think he's lying. Seems to be interested in working with town to the point of being de facto town, although if we clean up the wrong scum team first and are having trouble with the other one, that might change. It's worth noting that from what I've read, survivors generally act like de facto scum at LyLo.
mesonoxian - scumread. Specifically probably fiend. My strongest scumread right now, I think. Mostly because the way he's been going after Nictis, hasn't felt totally natural to me? Like I mentioned before, it's the combination of stuff that I think is legitimately suss and stuff that just seems to be throwing stuff to see if he can get anything to stick. Which would be towny enough but seems to me like he's always trying to make it stick if it doesn't. Coming after Nictis at EoD yesterday sorta felt to me like a fiend trying to do damage control.
One thing I'm going to point out here that I didn't see anyone else do is that IIRC @mesonoxian said that his two top scumreads besides Nictis flipped elf and human last night. That was Cyricubed and either Shadell or OriginalName. If it was Shadell, then his two top scumreads were both in Shalmoa's list of demonreads. I don't like that.
Wiadi - scumlean. You've been fairly active but at least from what I can recall it's been a lot of asking question and not a lot of actually giving your own input? Also and this might just be the impression I got, but you seemed to me like you were lightly townreading Shalmoa without much explanation or investigation, and also lightly shading me without much substance. I mentioned that I thought you were teammates with Shalmoa at EoD yesterday, but when I looked through your ISO I didn't see anything that really jumped out to me, so this is probably my lightest scumlean, but there's something about you that's wigging me, @Wiadi.
Zaealix - townclear. I was sussing them pretty hard, but with the knight claim, unless there's some counterclaim or additional mechanic information that gives cause to doubt that, I'm going to look elsewhere.
Tykan - scumlean. This is mostly over the item preference thing. I got the bag pretty soon after he did (not right after but within a couple of picks), and I think it's pretty sus that there was several of his stated town preferences still available (coins, masks, a talisman) but IIRC all of his stated scum preferences except for staff of life were already gone. I told @Nictis that I was going to wait and see how he's been reacting, and IMO he's been doing well on that front, but if he's scum the current story is basically the one he has to tell anyway.
This is a bit confounded by the fact that my thoughts on the players who haven't had profile picks have been blending together all game. Seriously guys find a profile pic @Tykan @Zaealix @Yun @Shalmoa.
Scia - idk. Not very active the first two days. Seems more active now but nothing they've said has struck me as alignment indicative? That post about LyLo struck me as effort but effort that would be easy to fake.
Reliable_2IC - townlean, unfortunately. As far as I can tell they still have shown exactly zero interest in scumhunting or defending their townreads. Coming off what was at least partially an inactivity lynch with zero posting the next day is not a good look. You know you still have fewer posts than Yun? However I realize that I'm confounded by the fact that I really don't like how they've played here, which I think is making me scumread them more than I should. I don't think scum picks Two World Telehat. I mean it's a misplay for town to but it's a misplay I see town making, and not scum.
Actually would there be any detriment to @Reliable_2IC claiming pick number and what was in the sack when they got it? I don't think we're getting anything out of this slot that isn't mechanical information.
Happerry - townread. I don't think scum with an eagle mask gets on Zaealix like that.
I think that's everyone, let me know if I was missing anyone
In order of activity.
Nictis - idk. Definitely not fiend. If they are scum they have to be demon. There's a lot of big stuff here that seems suss, but then as I read through I end up inexplicably feeling better about this slot. The item pick stuff with Tykan felt genuine.
One thing I want to point out here is that according to @Nictis, if Tykan was town he'd have to have a firestarter. So in Nictis' town!Tykan!world Nictis would have just outed the towny with the unignited firestarter. Unless all the fiend steal were accounted for and I missed it, I do not feel great about this play.
Byzantine - survivorread since he claimed survivor and I don't think he's lying. Seems to be interested in working with town to the point of being de facto town, although if we clean up the wrong scum team first and are having trouble with the other one, that might change. It's worth noting that from what I've read, survivors generally act like de facto scum at LyLo.
mesonoxian - scumread. Specifically probably fiend. My strongest scumread right now, I think. Mostly because the way he's been going after Nictis, hasn't felt totally natural to me? Like I mentioned before, it's the combination of stuff that I think is legitimately suss and stuff that just seems to be throwing stuff to see if he can get anything to stick. Which would be towny enough but seems to me like he's always trying to make it stick if it doesn't. Coming after Nictis at EoD yesterday sorta felt to me like a fiend trying to do damage control.
One thing I'm going to point out here that I didn't see anyone else do is that IIRC @mesonoxian said that his two top scumreads besides Nictis flipped elf and human last night. That was Cyricubed and either Shadell or OriginalName. If it was Shadell, then his two top scumreads were both in Shalmoa's list of demonreads. I don't like that.
Wiadi - scumlean. You've been fairly active but at least from what I can recall it's been a lot of asking question and not a lot of actually giving your own input? Also and this might just be the impression I got, but you seemed to me like you were lightly townreading Shalmoa without much explanation or investigation, and also lightly shading me without much substance. I mentioned that I thought you were teammates with Shalmoa at EoD yesterday, but when I looked through your ISO I didn't see anything that really jumped out to me, so this is probably my lightest scumlean, but there's something about you that's wigging me, @Wiadi.
Zaealix - townclear. I was sussing them pretty hard, but with the knight claim, unless there's some counterclaim or additional mechanic information that gives cause to doubt that, I'm going to look elsewhere.
Tykan - scumlean. This is mostly over the item preference thing. I got the bag pretty soon after he did (not right after but within a couple of picks), and I think it's pretty sus that there was several of his stated town preferences still available (coins, masks, a talisman) but IIRC all of his stated scum preferences except for staff of life were already gone. I told @Nictis that I was going to wait and see how he's been reacting, and IMO he's been doing well on that front, but if he's scum the current story is basically the one he has to tell anyway.
This is a bit confounded by the fact that my thoughts on the players who haven't had profile picks have been blending together all game. Seriously guys find a profile pic @Tykan @Zaealix @Yun @Shalmoa.
Scia - idk. Not very active the first two days. Seems more active now but nothing they've said has struck me as alignment indicative? That post about LyLo struck me as effort but effort that would be easy to fake.
Reliable_2IC - townlean, unfortunately. As far as I can tell they still have shown exactly zero interest in scumhunting or defending their townreads. Coming off what was at least partially an inactivity lynch with zero posting the next day is not a good look. You know you still have fewer posts than Yun? However I realize that I'm confounded by the fact that I really don't like how they've played here, which I think is making me scumread them more than I should. I don't think scum picks Two World Telehat. I mean it's a misplay for town to but it's a misplay I see town making, and not scum.
Actually would there be any detriment to @Reliable_2IC claiming pick number and what was in the sack when they got it? I don't think we're getting anything out of this slot that isn't mechanical information.
Happerry - townread. I don't think scum with an eagle mask gets on Zaealix like that.
I think that's everyone, let me know if I was missing anyone
- Location
- United States
Misworded, this, it should be:
The item pick stuff with Tykan felt genuine, but one thing I want to point out here is that according to @Nictis, if Tykan was town he'd have to have a firestarter. So in Nictis' town!Tykan!world Nictis would have just outed the towny with the unignited firestarter. Unless all the fiend steal were accounted for and I missed it, I do not feel great about this play.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Demons would not be aware of any survivors, and fiends would not be aware of any either. This makes the probability of them taking the telehat nil. You only take that if you are a newbie who isn't sure what you are doing, which scum should coordinate to prevent, or you are scum that knows a bunch of survivors (Like terra's archfiend game, where both teams knew almost all the survivors day 1), or are a survivor who cares what side your allies are on for some reason. We can mechanically confirm Reliable isn't a survivor, so that just leaves one option that isn't dumb.
Of course this is assuming reliable actually took the telehat and didn't just look at the math I had already posted at that point to make an obviously-true claim to distract from things. That doesn't seem like their MO so far, though.
(It can be mechanically determined I'm not an Orc due to the D1 vote outcome, so no loss for me to say this.)
- Location
- United States
Demons and Fiends only learn survivor numbers after item picks. Know this from the dream game.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
This is true and I forgot it when writing up that post, but considering it more they would still know their team composition.
So demons would know they have no survivors of any kind and hence can't make much use of the telehat.
A quick look at the possible builds with a fiendish orc greatly limits the value of a telehat for the fiends, due to their only being exactly one slot with both a possessed orc and a fiendish one.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
i.e. A telehat only gets a single meaningfully informed use from Fiends in the entire game, as if there are 2 orcs they check the other. If there are three they check either of the other two. In all cases this informs them if there is a second hostile orc and who it is. For demons it gets exactly 0 informed uses.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I suppose the fiends could have taken it to prevent town/demons from using it to out their orc, but that seems like a waste of a pick to me.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I would expect with that logic they would also have taken the HH, which we know for a fact they did not.
- Location
- United States
There were two IIRC, so it wasn't a denial pick.
The problem is that it's not really a good pick for any alignment. In a towny's hands it's basically a cop with at best a 66% false negative chance. In our game it'd be a cop with a 80% false negative chance.
I guess scum could use it to scumhunt the other team as well? I guess in a fiends hands it would be possible survivor alignment detection and ineffectively scumhunting the other team?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
- Location
- United States
Ah okay. Fiends got 8 picks. Maybe it was a super late pick and there was nothing better?
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- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wouldn't they get nine picks?
- Location
- United States
Fiendish Orc gets two picks, each vanilla fiend gets three picks.
SMH I know you know this.
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- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Duh. Sorry, I'm not firing on all cylinders yet.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eight or nine, I don't think there are very many rolls for a 16 person game that would make the hate worthwhile for scum, and it almost never seems like a good bet for town. Like the Dueling Rose, it is more cool than useful.
- Location
- United States
Hmmm, some associations-
scum!Nictis is not with Shalmoa or scum!mesonoxian. scum!Nictis is probably not with scum!Tykan. scum!Nictis is I think slightly more unlikely to be with scum!Wiadi for association reasons but that is only weak. scum!Nictis and scum!Reliable_2IC would make some sense as partners.
scum!mesonoxian is not with scum!Nictis, so if both are scum then mesonoxian was with Shalmoa. Weak association with Tykan and Wiadi on those basises.
scum!Wiadi is not not partners with anyone, but is more likely to be on Shalmoa's team, so weak association with mesonoxian and anti-association with Nictis on that basis.
scum!Tykan is probably not with scum!Nictis.
scum!Scia is not not partners with anyone either, but I'm going to very weak association with scum!Nictis purely on the basis that scum!Nictis has enough anti-associations.
scum!Reliable_2IC is not not partners with anyone either, but would make some sense with scum!Nictis
scum!Nictis is not with Shalmoa or scum!mesonoxian. scum!Nictis is probably not with scum!Tykan. scum!Nictis is I think slightly more unlikely to be with scum!Wiadi for association reasons but that is only weak. scum!Nictis and scum!Reliable_2IC would make some sense as partners.
scum!mesonoxian is not with scum!Nictis, so if both are scum then mesonoxian was with Shalmoa. Weak association with Tykan and Wiadi on those basises.
scum!Wiadi is not not partners with anyone, but is more likely to be on Shalmoa's team, so weak association with mesonoxian and anti-association with Nictis on that basis.
scum!Tykan is probably not with scum!Nictis.
scum!Scia is not not partners with anyone either, but I'm going to very weak association with scum!Nictis purely on the basis that scum!Nictis has enough anti-associations.
scum!Reliable_2IC is not not partners with anyone either, but would make some sense with scum!Nictis
- Location
- United States
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If Reliable is a Demon, Nictis breaking out the Herald to break up the wagon on them is pretty strongly indicative, I'd think. If they are a Fiend then it doesn't mean much of anything, though.
- Location
- United States
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ask anybody, my derpiness is 100% authentic.