Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

And lo the Eagle Yeet was mighty!

Hmmm. Vote wise I think its a bit of a trade obviously:

[] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]

-More approachable means an avenue to improve mainstream Emerald Seas Nobility opinion in general, which is a nice side benefit from this job.
-The Wang Chao Bond will presumably be higher out the end of this arc.
-Zhengui can do what he wishes without Ling Qi around. Depending on what that is her presence may be hampering or helpful.
-Talking to Wang Chao was the point of this, but we'll be sparring with him tomorrow and have been doing this for a few days, so that is already achieved in some respect.

[] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

-Its unlikely that Zhengui will flub anything if we help, but the flip side is that he may or may not want help.
-Advice on vagaries of spirit beast raising is raw information we don't have, and she's something of a unique source.
-The Alingge bond will presumably be higher out the end of this arc.
-Allows direct working with a member of the Old Tribes for possible political improvement on that end.


In general there's a couple of things that stand out:

-If we go with Alingge or Wang here we're giving up the avenue to improve mainstream Emerald Seas Nobility relations or Old Tribe relations. At least for the moment.
-Regardless of the choice, the Bonds will probably exist at some level for both of them so we might reach out to the groups they connect to through either Wang or Alingge. This is a different avenue from the one above.
-Going for Wang over Alingge means delaying access to a unique selection of information until we can plausibly pick her brain again.
-Going for Wang over Alingge means that his bond will be higher presumably, which might bring further benefits beyond exceeding Ren-ren's expectations.
-Going for Alingge over Wang means that her bond will be higher presumably, which is definitely a nice thing to have from Ren-ren's perspective though I don't think she's asked for it directly.

Personally, balancing things I think I prefer going for Wang at the moment, primarily because if we don't take it now the info Alingge has is still likely going to be accessible in the future. We'd just have to make an opportunity to pick her brain.

Yeah, UGM is looking much better now. Melody's small splash defensive AoE means it's very effective when we either want to guard something so they can't reach the squishies, or when Ling Qi wants to reach the leaders and push back the mooks in the front.

Also, as mentioned Dirge works really well with a more attrition style of combat. I called it.

I made a list of LQ's current supernatural abilities and their sources for someone on discord and decided I should probably put it in the thread. I've deliberately explained things in short form - it's for people who don't read the actual techniques in the first place. I personally advise doing so - the lore in them is interesting even for people who don't care about mechanics.

It's currently missing our social arts, as well as obvious things like base stats or making music attacks. This is as of the (projected) end of turn 9.

Vanishing: dissolve into shadow/??? To hide
Sable Grace: Phase through attacks as part of dodging.
Dream Step: ??? (Currently unrevealed)
Unbreakable Will: resist physical damage with force of will rather than bodily durability
Intensive Focus: I don't actually know if this has a supernatural effect
Sincere Negotiator: supernaturally obvious honesty???

Passive Domain: Enhance perception in personal space. Immunity to compulsions or restraints, Allies gain speed and minor defensive boosts scaling with relationship, as well as some degree of her immunities.
The Mist (Active Domain): Actual blade aside, enhances her techniques, enables combat stealth, makes number disparity favor her, distorts space at its perimeter, making leaving or attacking from outside difficult. A single AoE gains a damage boost from phantoms. Elegy drains enemy qi, slows them, stacks, and can drag them into isolation. Close friends (Bond 3-4) regen qi during elegy.

Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry (PLR): Summon a revel that grants enormous maneuverability in it and will grab people and drain their qi in a dance. Revelers can toast to boost music techs. LQ can step into dream for evasion or move the entire festival through it at cost.
Frozen Soul Serenade (FSS): Freezing aura drains enemy attacks and strengthens hers, with failed enemy attacks giving her qi. Targeted qi drain effect with momentary weaker aoe. Debuff target can be targeted by Call to Ending for high damage that ignores armor and scales with proximity.
Harmony of the Dancing winds (HDW): Passive quasi-echolocation with music. Social privacy screen. A few ally buffs we never use.
Roaming Moon's Eye (RME): Bonus inspecting things. Summon wisps that can see for her and go through walls. Analyze a way past techniques. Scrying pool.
Ephemeral Night's Memory (ENM): Make herself supernaturally forgettable and slippery, including people hiding well enough people forget she was there. Qi feint that prevents active use of art defenses for an attack. Attack that makes an enemy forget a technique for a bit.
Starless Night's Reflection (SNR): Shroud in defensive water-darkness energy. Absorb an attack. More to be added - going up 3 levels.
Beast King's Savage Dirge (BKSD): Summon eagle with mind-bending scream, then dives at and carries something along a line. Echo triggers dirge, which fills wide area with a field of medium-damage beasts - crowding is notable. Attempts to dispel anything triggers extra beast attacks.
Unstoppable Glacier's March (UGM): Passively, every attack tries to peel off or ignore enemy defenses that would stop it. Short-range icy cone with a knockback, then repeats every time she advances on the targets. (3 triggers per use)
Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief (LFotWT): Become a shadow on the wind for incorporeality and speed. Stealth boost that ignores detection effects. Perfect dodge or gap closer.
Winter Heart's Resounding (WHR): Techniques are passively immune to one dispel and can distinguish enemies from allies. Create field that drains enemy qi, regen ally qi and inhibits enemy spiritual attacks, stationary or as a personal aura.

Varder said:

I just don't think we will be able to do so at Cyan without serious penalties.

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It's apparently an ability that's not at all common at Cyan, that's just the earliest it can show, as I read things.

Given Ling Qi's isolation themes, I'm not sure if she is going to be exceptionally talented at it, exceptionally bad at it, or just plain weird in how she does it, somehow.

[] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

I'm leaning towards this option for, mainly, two reasons.

The first reason is that nothing in the narrative has suggested that Ling Qi has started to cultivate MSS at all. Narrative cue actually indicate she most likely lacked the time to do so, having been unable to cultivate generally for a week or whatever, and then quickly cultivating two specific arts. MSS fits the Wang social situation just about perfectly, and without it I have a hard time viewing the returns as marginally optimal. It's going into a situation without the best tool for that job.

The second reason is Alingge will 100% call Ling Qi on her shit, as we saw during the inception of this sparring group, which seems like the most reliable path forwards on reconciling the difficulties involving Zhengui. Right now, those difficulties are significant, and they will absolutely hold back our success in this group generally. Identifying the issues so that we can progress in our other priorities without worsening them or suffering blowback from crossed wires down the line is paramount.

So, it's a combination of the prep to make focusing on Wang Chao as successful as possible not being there and prioritizing reducing our social liabilities over the greatest span of the exercises by addressing issues with Zhengui, when he's in a terrible mood, early on in the venture. There's no apparent risk in passing on this interaction with Wang Chao, but leaving Zhengui to his own devices does have some small possibility of clashing personalities, but more importantly risks his issues dragging out as obstacles for every choice we have moving forwards. I'd like to at least get a grip on what they are within the context of the events so that we can make future choices while well-informed.

Edit: also, just look at the arc subtitle, dammit. The focus is obvious.

If Wang Chao wants our attention, he can come up with some hooks that justify it. Right now, I don't see that. I like the guy, but all he's got going for him is "Renxiang said so" and being a good opportunity to cultivate our new social art, that it doesn't look like we'll cultivate in this specific interaction(because we can't cultivate it in, like, 15 minutes before going to the pavilion to talk). AND we're interacting with him significantly tomorrow automatically anyway.

AbeoLogos said:

The first reason is that nothing in the narrative has suggested that Ling Qi has started to cultivate MSS at all. Narrative cue actually indicate she most likely lacked the time to do so, having been unable to cultivate generally for a week or whatever, and then quickly cultivating two specific arts. MSS fits the Wang social situation just about perfectly, and without it I have a hard time viewing the returns as marginally optimal. It's going into a situation without the best tool for that job.

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Mmm, arguably though that's just the focus of this particular update though? I would expect that in a socialising update our social arts would come into play, as it's the ideal time to introduce them.

[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

Choosing this for "Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts". We're also mostly hands off with Zhengui. A little hands on won't hurt. Particularly while Hanyi is not here.

Huh, good point.

Hmmm. Vote wise I think its a bit of a trade obviously:

[] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]
[] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

Looking at them, it does make it seems like Wang Chao's action is a "get on the ground floor in the pavillon" option, while Alingge is "Zhengui + Spirit beasts". While being on the ground floor in the pavillon is nice, it's also not urgent considering we are in the ground floor anyway for the sparrings, and, as mentioned, we don't have MSS so we aren't going to help there as much as we'd like.

OTOH, Zhengui's + Spirit Beast options is very much an option that is time dependent.

[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

Abeos convinced me.

[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

I want to learn more about spirit beasts.

AbeoLogos said:

If Wang Chao wants our attention, he can come up with some hooks that justify it. Right now, I don't see that. I like the guy, but all he's got going for him is "Renxiang said so" and being a good opportunity to cultivate our new social art, that it doesn't look like we'll cultivate in this specific interaction(because we can't cultivate it in, like, 15 minutes before going to the pavilion to talk). AND we're interacting with him significantly tomorrow automatically anyway.

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Mmm, the counterargument I'd say is that you're kind of acting like voting for Wang here doesn't really mean anything, and we can skip it with no consequence?

Like, arguably I'd say that the Alingge vote reinforces what has already been established to be problematic behaviour on LQ's part: that being her tendency to ignore most of the nobility and minimise socialisation in favour of focusing on the favoured quirky NPC.

Erebeal said:

Mmm, arguably though that's just the focus of this particular update though? I would expect that in a socialising update our social arts would come into play, as it's the ideal time to introduce them.

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I just don't see how she could have had the time. She had a week of basically no cultivation. Then she rapidly grabbed 3 levels in 2 arts in, what, a couple days? There's been zero mention of MSS whatsoever, explicitly or implicitly, not even touching on the furthest bounds of its themes or subjects even briefly, and we're headed over to the pavilion after "a few moments to cultivate my reserves back to full", so there's no time to do it now.

From a verisimilitude perspective, it is deeply, terribly implausible.

The best that seems at all plausible is Ling Qi using the experience as the jumping point to start cultivating it after, but that doesn't help in the actual encounter itself. Which is dumb butts. It also seems kind of boring, since we've seen him flail about enough times already. The room for interesting developments seems narrow, other than something like Ling Qi trying to help and putting her foot in her mouth to justify introspection and development of the art's lessons later on. But that practically defeats the purpose of pursuing a Wang option, since it's actively counterproductive, and it's left Zhengui/Alingge progress entirely unadvanced.

No, the constellation of possibilities and tools available doesn't look good for picking Wang at this moment.

Erebeal said:

Mmm, the counterargument I'd say is that you're kind of acting like voting for Wang here doesn't really mean anything, and we can skip it with no consequence?

Like, arguably I'd say that the Alingge vote reinforces what has already been established to be problematic behaviour on LQ's part: that being her tendency to ignore most of the nobility and minimise socialisation in favour of focusing on the favoured quirky NPC.

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I mean, this is why I didn't want to bring Su Ling. We already have shit to deal with that competes with our Mission. Since Ling Qi can't keep tabs on Wang Chao and pursue any other objective or socialization at the same time, and she's ill-equipped to interact with Wang Chao productively, I'm fine with resigning myself to the potential of mediocrity in advancing our goals with Wang Chao as long as it means probable actual success basically anywhere.

[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]

If this wasn't the first choice in the arc I'd be all for talking to Alingge. But it is the first choice and we are the co-organizer and we did just finish making all these poor people feel inadequate (because they are, but drawing attention to that is not polite). So I think we should at least act like we care about their feelings instead of immediately haring off to do what we want and isolating ourselves from the group.

Once they are reassured that we're willing to act like we care, we can focus on the things and people that interest us without concerns.

Erebeal said:

Mmm, the counterargument I'd say is that you're kind of acting like voting for Wang here doesn't really mean anything, and we can skip it with no consequence?

Like, arguably I'd say that the Alingge vote reinforces what has already been established to be problematic behaviour on LQ's part: that being her tendency to ignore most of the nobility and minimise socialisation in favour of focusing on the favoured quirky NPC.

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In that instance we just spent the rest of the week with the rest of the nobility and not the quirky NPC, though, and it stays true that, well.... Allingge action seems relevant to Ling Qi current things and it's something she can act on now, while not having her social art online for the pavillon isn't the best of ideas.

Also I'd disagree with MSS being learned in the social action right now, considering it's a "come here right now" talk, rather than "in a few days".

Also, it's not like Alingge is not ES nobility. In fact, she might be more connected than Wang Chao.

Erebeal said:

Mmm, the counterargument I'd say is that you're kind of acting like voting for Wang here doesn't really mean anything, and we can skip it with no consequence?

Like, arguably I'd say that the Alingge vote reinforces what has already been established to be problematic behaviour on LQ's part: that being her tendency to ignore most of the nobility and minimise socialisation in favour of focusing on the favoured quirky NPC.

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I mean, two ducal scions have come right out and said that they envy us for our friends, so it can't all be bad. Our approach certainly makes us worse at politics but honestly it seems like it will make our life richer in the long run.

It also makes us less useful to CRX but I'm not sure how much our loyalty takes the form of diligence? There's a reasonable chance that the real way we will connect to her isn't as liege and vassal but rather as one friend to another.

Arkeus said:

In that instance we just spent the rest of the week with the rest of the nobility and not the quirky NPC, though, and it stays true that, well.... Allingge action seems relevant to Ling Qi current things and it's something she can act on now, while not having her social art online for the pavillon isn't the best of ideas.

Also I'd disagree with MSS being learned in the social action right now, considering it's a "come here right now" talk, rather than "in a few days".

Also, it's not like Alingge is not ES nobility. In fact, she might be more connected than Wang Chao.

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The thing about the pavilion is that so long as we do not screw up majorly, being there is better than not being there to the group's perception. And being there at first is when it is most important, if we pick it later it looks like we're only doing it begrudgingly. Which we are, but the point is to sort of act like we would if we didn't.

It's all part of the overarching game of 'we both know I don't care about you but so long as it is not obvious to a third party it's not a big deal'.

[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

Eh sure, Abeo makes a good point.

[X] Join Alingge with the Beasts. [Actively help Zhengui be more social. Advice on the vagaries of raising spirit beasts, Influence Alingge bond.]

065tdsa said:

[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]

If this wasn't the first choice in the arc I'd be all for talking to Alingge. But it is the first choice and we are the co-organizer and we did just finish making all these poor people feel inadequate (because they are, but drawing attention to that is not polite). So I think we should at least act like we care about their feelings instead of immediately haring off to do what we want and isolating ourselves from the group.

Once they are reassured that we're willing to act like we care, we can focus on the things and people that interest us without concerns.

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Yeah, this is really important I feel. We're one of the organisers, Wang's been publicly treating us like a peer, it's really important that we don't immediately backtrack to being stand-offish and anti-social again.

[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]

[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]

Think a big part of the issue with Zhengui IS based heavily on Ling Qi being a helicopter. Give him a little room to discuss with the other spirits, and we'd have something more actionable when he next raises the matter.

And the whole point of the gathering is to make connections with Wang Chao!

yrsillar said:

Ling Qi forced herself to close her eyes as Zhengui let out a bellow.

She could trust them.

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For basically his entire life, LQ has been helicopter parenting Zhengui. If we don't give him a chance to learn how to work through his own problems, he's never going to really learn how. And giving Zhengui chances to learn means giving him chances to fail too, and then helping him fix his inevitable mistakes. At some point we're going to have to trust Zhengui, and I'd rather we start that now, in a relatively safe environment with his number 1 fan (Alingge) keeping an eye on him, then be forced into it in a higher stakes situation later.

Even if Zhengu screws this up, he'll live and learn from it. And if he manages to work this out on his own, which is absolutely a possible outcome, even better.

[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]

[X] Join Wang Chao in the pavilion. [Make yourself more approachable, influence Wang Chao Bond. Give Zhengui room to act on his own, for better or worse.]