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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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[X] Plan: PLR + Meridian Turn
[X] Plan Harmonic Revelry with crunching

fiery lanlan was our restraining bolt on our chunni Omega Darkwraith Qi

dont fall to the dark side qi!
 
I'm really wanting to lean towards Plan: PLR, but the lack of war in the skill planning is concerning to me. Are there any future plans to get some upgrades to war if PLR wins? I personally feel its a skill that should start getting some upgrades due to the current events around the sect.
 
Mmm, there are a couple of things I don't like about the PLR plan. Firstly, I'd really like to get some RME in there for another level of sweet sweet utility.

Secondly, people seem to be voting for training Perception rather than Intensive Focus and I'm a) slightly concerned that many don't actually *realise* that given it has had no discussion, and b) concerned that that isn't really something that should be done without discussion.

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. Even if we take the "hard" interpretation of Intensive Focus as a specialisation, it still actually works relatively well for us. We would expect it to be good at things like active scouting, examining formations and security, scrying, trying to find something/one hidden, etc. That's mostly what we want out of perception? The main thing it would be weaker at, under this interpretation, would be passive paranoia defense... LQ has always been bizzarely less paranoid than us tbh (still salty over her not sneaking everywhere once she got GM incentives :( ).

And that's the restrictive interpretation. We don't even know if we should be reading it that way. If we are concerned about that kind of thing, it strikes me as something that we shuold actually discuss with yrs first to get a better understanding of how he's thinking about Intensive Focus. If we just want something with more flavor, however (e.g. music/listening based perception), then I feel that we'd be better off looking at appropriate arts (or modifying RME later on as people have suggested), and dealing with that kind of adjustment at the next advanced skill upgrade rather than trying to just replace Intensive Focus now. And I would also like to also point out that Intensive Focus, while somewhat bland, is also sufficiently general that it can readily apply to whatever form of perception we want it to.

tldr; Intensive Focus is fine, and the skill plan I would argue people voting for PLR should be voting for is:

[x] Plan Harmonic Revelry
-[x] 4x Dexterity* (8/40), 4x Intelligence* (16/40), 3x Wits* (22/40), 4x Resolve* (30/40)
-[x] 3x Athletics** (33/40), 1x Survival (34/40)
-[x] 3x Intensive Focus* (40/40)

And *not* the "with crunching" version.
 
[X] Plan: Darkness Turn
-[X] equip Songseeker's Ceremony
-[X] switch Inquisitive Study to Upkeep 2
-[X] Medium Pills (free)
-[X] Resources: 12 GSS, 12 YSS (4 free GSS, 8 from cash, 12 free YSS) , Drip on Spiritual Cultivation
-[X] Use the Ebon Spirit Elixir
-[X] Use the Midnight Essence Pill
-[X] Physical Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief (3 AP)
-[X] Ephemeral Nights Memory (2 AP)(Train this last)
-[X] Starless Night's Reflection (4 AP)
-[X] Unstoppable Glaciers March (2 AP)
-[X] Beast King's Savage Dirge (2 AP)
-[X] Moonless Saboteur's Smile (1 AP)
-[X] Research Arts in Sect Archive, Third Floor (1 AP, 20 SP)
-[X] Family (1 AP)

[X] Plan Darkness Hungers
-[X] 4x Dexterity* (8/40), 2x Presence** (12/40), 2x Manipulation** (16/40), 2x Composure** (20/40), 4x Resolve* (28/40)
-[X] 4x Fade* (32/40), 4x War** (36/40), 4x Government** (40/40)
 
A note about Spine Meridians in Darkness plan:

Black Noise said:
It's only UGM we can't equip properly, and ENM that will have a brief window between the end of this turn and the start of the next one where it will be offline.
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So we have 7 Spines right now. 1 Spine most definitely will go to powering LFWT, that's not under debate. As for the other 6, once we have trained both UGM+SNR there is a bit of a conundrum. These are the Spine costs of the respective Spine arts:

6 "Free" Spines
TRF: 2
SES: 4
SNR: 3 (trained this turn)
UGM: 2 (trained this turn)

I think it's definitely required that we either have TRF or SNR equipped at all times. However, if we switch to SNR, then we can not also equip SES, and so we might as well equip UGM. So the situation we will be in after SNR+UGM training is we can loadout with either SNR+UGM or with TRF+SES. Which one we would go with probably depends largely on the strength of SNR and UGM levels, but also on if we want to especially do group defense with TRF and/or resist dispels with SES.
 
I'm not crying, you're crying, shut up. :cry:

[X] Plan: Darkness Turn
[X] Plan Darkness Hungers

Embrace your inner goth, this is exactly the right time for it.
 
[X] Plan: Darkness Turn
-[X] equip Songseeker's Ceremony
-[X] switch Inquisitive Study to Upkeep 2
-[X] Medium Pills (free)
-[X] Resources: 12 GSS, 12 YSS (4 free GSS, 8 from cash, 12 free YSS) , Drip on Spiritual Cultivation
-[X] Use the Ebon Spirit Elixir
-[X] Use the Midnight Essence Pill
-[X] Physical Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief (3 AP)
-[X] Ephemeral Nights Memory (2 AP)(Train this last)
-[X] Starless Night's Reflection (4 AP)
-[X] Unstoppable Glaciers March (2 AP)
-[X] Beast King's Savage Dirge (2 AP)
-[X] Moonless Saboteur's Smile (1 AP)
-[X] Research Arts in Sect Archive, Third Floor (1 AP, 20 SP)
-[X] Family (1 AP)

[X] Plan Darkness Hungers
-[X] 4x Dexterity* (8/40), 2x Presence** (12/40), 2x Manipulation** (16/40), 2x Composure** (20/40), 4x Resolve* (28/40)
-[X] 4x Fade* (32/40), 4x War** (36/40), 4x Government** (40/40)
 
Alright. So. As @DeAnno points out, @Black Noise noise was somewhat optimistic in terms of what we can actually equip in the Darkness month. We can't equip SNR. We can't equip UGM. We can only equip BKSD if it's clearly better than FVM. This is not only awkward, but also kinda blueballs us on all our all the arts. "Yay, let's train all our new arts!" "and not equip or use them :sadface:".

It has been argued that it's stronger for combat, but, as I noted earlier, that's highly questionable. The upgrades we've gotten for PLR6 are very strong and make it very useful. It makes it a good defensive field, helping both us and our allies, gives us some cool repositioning abilities, and gives us even stronger CC. It is exceedingly helpful for group combat, and could actually start to make PLR useful. HDW also, as noted, provides some buffs that may not be the strongest - but do not have any limitations in terms of how many people they can affect. If we're getting into larger scale engagements this could be very useful.

In contrast, the Darkness plan provides us with a stronger solo/stealth upgrade. LFWT + ENM5 would be very effective there. Frankly, I'd be inclined to just go with unequip PLR in favor of ENM all the time rather than just for stealth because PLR5 is kinda bleh and we never use it. However, this is kinda awkward given the PLR development plot we just picked up. It's also very awkward given our recent stuff about trying to focus more on working with our allies rather than going max solo operator all the time. It's thematically discordant with the narrative, and will also be really awkward at showing our gains. We'll train all the new darkness arts - and then won't be able to use them. We'll open the meridians to use them next turn at the same time as trying to do the PLR plot, and thus muddy both of them.

Overall? From a combat strength standpoint both have their merits. One is stronger for solo/stealth work, while the other is stronger for group work. It depends what you think the biggest issue here is (nb. we can already hit S stealth). However, from a narrative standpoint I would argue that PLR now is clearly more fitting. It plays into both its arc and works better for the whole teamwork issue - as well as capping and possibly slotting HDW which we wanted because of the cool connections themes - also very appropriate for the current story arc and our heart demon.

tldr:
Vote for teamwork
Vote for connections
Vote for Sixiang
Vote for PLR

~~~~~~~~

Now, finally, I would actually prefer to adjust the adjust the plan to upgrade RME another level (which only needs 1AP) for some stronger utility. Remember how much we wished we had better scrying last arc? RME2 gives us better scrying, and more eyes. It does mean we can't just get PLR7 next month for 1 AP, but I'm fine with that tbh. We can't assume we'll have that AP available anyway, and PLR6 is the important one. I think utility is really important. If you really want PLR7 fast though, then the old plan is still there:
Edit: ok, looking at things I think we actually only really *need* 6 more meridians to equip everything anyway, not 8. That means that instead cutting PLR down, we could just drop to 3 meridian AP instead. That would mean we could still potentially get PLR7 next month if we really wanted, and we look at the meridians and decide that actually it would be nice to open more now so we can have more flexibility or something then we can always spend next month's AP on that instead of PLR then and it would amount to the same thing.
Edit 2: ok, and with people deciding to pump omake points into HDW to get it down to 1 AP we can just put 4 AP in meridians anyway

[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
-[X] equip Songseeker's Ceremony
-[X] switch Inquisitive Study to Upkeep 2
-[X] Medium Pills (free)
-[X] Resources: 12 GSS, 12 YSS (4 free GSS, 8 from cash, 12 free YSS) , Drip on Spiritual Cultivation
-[X] Physical Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Spiritual Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry (4 AP)
-[X] Roaming Moon's Eye (1 AP)
-[X] Harmony of the Dancing Wind (1 AP)
-[X] Meridians (4 AP, tbd after archive results)
-[X] Research Arts in Sect Archive, Third Floor (1 AP, 20 SP)
-[X] Family (1 AP)

[x] Plan Dancing Moon
-[x] 4x Dexterity* (8/40), 2x Presence** (12/40), 3x Manipulation** (18/40), 2x Composure** (22/40), 4x Resolve* (30/40), 2x Wits* (34/40)
-[x] 2x Athletics** (36/40), 1x Survival (37/40), 3x War* (40/40)
 
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[] Plan: PLR + Meridian Turn

I'm voting this way for both pacing and combat readiness reasons.

In terms of pacing, PLR turn first allows the recent PLR arc to continue and conclude without further interference or distraction, and the meridian opening allows the training in the subsequent Darkness turn to directly result in the whole setup going online at once, which feels easier and more satisfying to establish in the narrative. Less chance of things getting lost or dangling as loose threads, in my opinion. If Darkness turn goes first, then we have probably have a closer look at the things that are immediately usable, but the rest then has to share narrative space with PLR when it goes online the next month, which doesn't seem fair to either them or PLR. There's also a not insignificant risk that the events of the month make capping off the PLR narrative janky. We've got momentum now, we ought to seize it. PLR going first seems to be the neater presentation of our gains over the next two months from where I'm standing.

For combat readiness, my concern is more narrative than mechanical, since either plan has us bringing powerful capabilities online. Darkness turn is a bit more of a gamble since it's shooting for art levels we can't actually see and relying on us getting good enough results that the arts can comfortably replace established arts in the same roles. That's not an objection, just an observation. Where I would object is in the nature of PLR's offerings compared to the Darkness turn's. PLR is a strong upgrade in team capabilities, which is where our narrative focus has been during this turn, especially the consequences of neglecting it. The Darkness turn emphasizes personal mobility and survivability, and adds some offensive breadth; while it augments group defence, it's a replacement rather than a straight upgrade. PLR better fulfills the recently narratively established missing needs of our combat paradigm, in my opinion.

Edit: huh, skimmed over the meridian talk. The situation appears less balanced than I thought. Got my vote.

[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
[X] Plan Dancing Moon

Edit2:

Erebeal said:
Mmm, there are a couple of things I don't like about the PLR plan. Firstly, I'd really like to get some RME in there for another level of sweet sweet utility.

Secondly, people seem to be voting for training Perception rather than Intensive Focus and I'm a) slightly concerned that many don't actually *realise* that given it has had no discussion, and b) concerned that that isn't really something that should be done without discussion.

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. Even if we take the "hard" interpretation of Intensive Focus as a specialisation, it still actually works relatively well for us. We would expect it to be good at things like active scouting, examining formations and security, scrying, trying to find something/one hidden, etc. That's mostly what we want out of perception? The main thing it would be weaker at, under this interpretation, would be passive paranoia defense... LQ has always been bizzarely less paranoid than us tbh (still salty over her not sneaking everywhere once she got GM incentives :( ).

And that's the restrictive interpretation. We don't even know if we should be reading it that way. If we are concerned about that kind of thing, it strikes me as something that we shuold actually discuss with yrs first to get a better understanding of how he's thinking about Intensive Focus. If we just want something with more flavor, however (e.g. music/listening based perception), then I feel that we'd be better off looking at appropriate arts (or modifying RME later on as people have suggested), and dealing with that kind of adjustment at the next advanced skill upgrade rather than trying to just replace Intensive Focus now. And I would also like to also point out that Intensive Focus, while somewhat bland, is also sufficiently general that it can readily apply to whatever form of perception we want it to.

tldr; Intensive Focus is fine, and the skill plan I would argue people voting for PLR should be voting for is:

[x] Plan Harmonic Revelry
-[x] 4x Dexterity* (8/40), 4x Intelligence* (16/40), 3x Wits* (22/40), 4x Resolve* (30/40)
-[x] 3x Athletics** (33/40), 1x Survival (34/40)
-[x] 3x Intensive Focus* (40/40)

And *not* the "with crunching" version.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Reminded me I wanted to respond to this too. My issue with Intense Focus isn't so much that it's weak, but that it feels really ill-fitting with our efforts. There was a big push and a lot of excitement over "Connections Perception" and similar, with HDW as both a Perception and a Wind art. IF seems like it brushed all of that into the garbage bin essentially the moment CDE showed up, which is unsatisfying to me from a player choice perspective. Especially since, yeah, it's boring. A burgeoning understanding of the Connections between all things vs focusing harder. If you asked me in a vacuum which one was inspired from a Divination art, my answer would definitely never be the latter.

Basically, it's not just that the skill is underwhelming or may be ineffective, it's that it veered things off in a direction that cuts off other paths we'd been working on, and for longer.

The PLR arc with Sixiang getting Ling Qi to pull her head out of her ass a bit feels like it could do some good work on a turn where HDW is being cultivated too.
 
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[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
[X] Plan Dancing Moon
I am fickle and predisposed to vote for anything snek and/or moon.
 
AbeoLogos said:
Reminded me I wanted to respond to this too. My issue with Intense Focus isn't so much that it's weak, but that it feels really ill-fitting with our efforts. There was a big push and a lot of excitement over "Connections Perception" and similar, with HDW as both a Perception and a Wind art. IF seems like it brushed all of that into the garbage bin essentially the moment CDE showed up, which is unsatisfying to me from a player choice perspective. Especially since, yeah, it's boring. A burgeoning understanding of the Connections between all things vs focusing harder. If you asked me in a vacuum which one was inspired from a Divination art, my answer would definitely never be the latter.

Basically, it's not just that the skill is underwhelming or may be ineffective, it's that it veered things off in a direction that cuts off other paths we'd been working on, and for longer.

The PLR arc with Sixiang getting Ling Qi to pull her head out of her ass a bit feels like it could do some good work on a turn where HDW is being cultivated too.
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I don't disagree - I would certainly prefer something more along those lines too. However, I'm not sure that "let's ditch IF and try to get a new advanced skill" is the right solution there. IF is not inappropriate to Ling Qi, and can readily be further adapted and upgraded to give more flavour through appropriate art selection, later upgrades, or just yrs deciding to fluff things in a particular way. IF is ultimately very flexible in terms of how yrsillar could apply it.
 
Erebeal said:
I don't disagree - I would certainly prefer something more along those lines too. However, I'm not sure that "let's ditch IF and try to get a new advanced skill" is the right solution there. IF is not inappropriate to Ling Qi, and can readily be further adapted and upgraded to give more flavour through appropriate art selection, later upgrades, or just yrs deciding to fluff things in a particular way. IF is ultimately very flexible in terms of how yrsillar could apply it.
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On the other hand, starting over to try a new thing is what other people have to do in-setting, and possible in the Green realm but effectively not later on, if I understand correctly. You could even spin a narrative involving, say, Xuan Shi into things given his presence during the birth of IF. There's observations on her narrow perspective that can be tied to her habitual shoehorning and passive dismissal of him. If you really wanted to.

But I think you're right and I'm viewing the skill as more rigid than it is because of how inflexible its introduction was in the context of our broader efforts.
 
Ok, so: looking at things I think we actually only really *need* 6 more meridians to equip everything anyway, not 8. Heck, we could equip all our new arts and still have both FSS and FVM equipped! That means that instead cutting PLR down, we could just drop to 3 meridian AP instead.

That would mean we could still potentially get PLR7 next month if we really wanted, and we look at the meridians and decide that actually it would be nice to open more now so we can have more flexibility or something then we can always spend next month's AP on that instead of PLR then and it would amount to the same thing.

On these grounds, I've adjusted my PLR plan above (In the Name of the Moon!). That being said, I'd welcome any opinions on this matter.
 
OK, so like other said, Darkness turn and PLR turn both have roughly equivalent 'immediate power' gains. The main difference to me is that Darkness focus more on personal capabilities while PLR focus more on team based play, and after this turn I think focusing on team based play is what we need to do first, so that we can make sure we are taking Zhengui and Hanyi's and Sixiang issues seriously.

That, and I think in the short term we really want HDW5 for social. While it's possible MSS2 gives us a screen tech, as far as we know it doesn't, and that means HDW must be mastered and used for not being a complete bumbling foor for social parts. Remember, CRX gave us a duty re:Wang recently, and our strongest short term social need now that we have PMR is to make sure we can actually talk without being listened to.

[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
[X] Plan Dancing Moon

[X] Plan: PLR + Meridian Turn
[X] Plan Harmonic Revelry
I'd keep that here just in case, so that if the new plan doesn't take off I can still vote for the old one.

EDIT: Also, hopefully nice omake people try to get HDW to 1AP rather than 2.
 
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