Same as Jane who doesn't block things, a targe or something. Saurus can equip Mittens, I really doubt it would be a problem. I think that we asked Durin about this before? Not sure, gonna ask again on Discord.
2. Your suggestion of giving Trolls our Tech when we haven't even done so for the Quartok would tank our relationship with them and start an Ad Mech Civil War with a good chunk of the Progressives going Conservative. Don't be stupid.
I think I like Nurgle's plan the best by a good margin....but I REALLY don't like the flaws of thunder thing, both IC and OOC
OOC: anything that a game's DM doesn't like (and I recall Durin has said he regrets giving us the action) (even if not enough to force-remove it) is not something I like almost on principle. (and for practical reasons as below...)
IC: ...also he has stated if I recall correctly that it might not even pay off....so we spend however many decades on the first part and get nothing or near-nothing......move on to the next multi decade part and then the next....who knows how many times and each time getting very little.....
....and then we might not even get anything for it!
the fact that the payoff is so uncertain means that they would have to be such a hard-upgrade over SM's for it to statistically be worth it. So the average expected payoff is just so low except under such extreme circumstances that it's just not believable.
the idea that we can take TW's, an prototype-design of a divine/near-divine level bio-engineer, and add something that would outweigh the additions that a near-divine level warp-engineer (who happens to be the same person) added to the same design (to get the SM's) and even sacrificed part of his near-divine level warp-nature to empower them? it's just not reasonable even if we could afford to throw as much time as emp's probably did (which I don't think we can)
instead, is there some creature or another that we could look into instead? we do have a long pile up I believe. and even if they are pretty inconsistent researches, they are much shorter then the mega-tech line that the thunder-line is and so won't tie our biologis up for decades/centurys before payoff (that, again, might not even exist!)
OOC 2: I would also note that durin not liking them is probably more cause to suspect that they might not pay off since DM's are far more forgiving/rewarding with actions if they like the action. (although durin does seem the type to be fair, I don't think anyone can be perfectly fair so its still at least somewhat relevent to consider.)
Same as Jane who doesn't block things, a targe or something. Saurus can equip Mittens, I really doubt it would be a problem. I think that we asked Durin about this before? Not sure, gonna ask again on Discord.
Her style doesn't stand and block, but she's got a hand free a lot of the time and she can still reflect things off of it while moving and benefitting from the main advantage of the shield its + to her dodging.
Surt's problem is anatomical, again where is he going to hold it
I think I like Nurgle's plan the best by a good margin....but I REALLY don't like the flaws of thunder thing, both IC and OOC
OOC: anything that a game's DM doesn't like (and I recall Durin has said he regrets giving us the action) (even if not enough to force-remove it) is not something I like almost on principle. (and for practical reasons as below...)
IC: ...also he has stated if I recall correctly that it might not even pay off....so we spend however many decades on the first part and get nothing or near-nothing......move on to the next multi decade part and then the next....who knows how many times and each time getting very little.....
....and then we might not even get anything for it!
the fact that the payoff is so uncertain means that they would have to be such a hard-upgrade over SM's for it to statistically be worth it. So the average expected payoff is just so low except under such extreme circumstances that it's just not believable.
the idea that we can take TW's, an prototype-design of a divine/near-divine level bio-engineer, and add something that would outweigh the additions that a near-divine level warp-engineer (who happens to be the same person) added to the same design (to get the SM's) and even sacrificed part of his near-divine level warp-nature to empower them? it's just not reasonable even if we could afford to throw as much time as emp's probably did (which I don't think we can)
instead, is there some creature or another that we could look into instead? we do have a long pile up I believe. and even if they are pretty inconsistent researches, they are much shorter then the mega-tech line that the thunder-line is and so won't tie our biologis up for decades/centurys before payoff (that, again, might not even exist!)
OOC 2: I would also note that durin not liking them is probably more cause to suspect that they might not pay off since DM's are far more forgiving/rewarding with actions if they like the action. (although durin does seem the type to be fair, I don't think anyone can be perfectly fair so its still at least somewhat relevent to consider.)
Nurgle's plan is largely based of mine. You can vote for it! We're researching Bolehs Spider right now, but there are good arguments for every species. Like the damned Camo Crocs. Or Vector Bird. The Backlog is eternal.
@Dragon_352
That's only for the chain that starts from that research. Knowing why and when the problems with them starts is a good idea if we want to use them regularly.
From Discord, if we are uncertain we can ask Saurus if they have a shield that would fit Surtr. Should be able to do that while asking for a trade or something I hope.
That's only for the chain that starts from that research. Knowing why and when the problems with them starts is a good idea if we want to use them regularly.
We learn that by using them for a while, not by spending 16y finding out the specific biological causes of the not-sufficienty-perfect parts, also known as "flaws" to see if we could maybe fix them up some in a couple decades of work.
No, that still helps because it's us specifically studying those facets. Just observing them in battle when they suffer over 80% casualties gives insufficient data.
Administration
Both have the same actions.
Shard uses the third year double down on the Bloom Bee Investigation bringing its chance up to 100% (with admin bonus it is alread 80%).
DIplomation
Y1: Inquire further what other things the Trolls with in exchange for technology (Other construction efforts, Mining, Rare Minerals, Avernite Auxiliaries on-Planet, Troll Alliance, etc)
Y2: Trade Tau technology to the Trolls (Trade subvote on how much Tau tech to trade exactly.)
Y3: Put the Ancient One and the Eldar/Krork in contact, so he can help with the Krork's endless Waagh.
Y4: Ask the Nynye about the Underhive Idea*
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 4
Y5: Ear to the Ground (Dragon's Nest merger details)
Y6: Lizardmen Diplomacy (Saurus) - New Trade, Details below**
*From the Discord: I had an idea where when colonising new regions or building a new city somewhere, we'd help transport a Nynye Queen alongside the colonists, who'd setup shop alongside the human city and in exchange for protection while building up they'd help out the human city with various matters that could use expendable drones, while the human city would help out with various requests. Ignoring the whole (massive, towering) issue with xenophobia and distrust, would this be feasible and/or would any aspiring Nynye Queens want to travel to far-away regions to set up their hives anyway?
**New Saurus Trade:
+Low Artifact Shield (Tamia, Rakes, Vizier (Rosalinda) and Adminstratum (Isaac) positions***)
+Low Artifact Shield/Weapons (Odysseus)
-Return Dead heroes' Artifacts (Syr's Artifact Weapon and Shield, Sir Pellinore's Shield)
New Credits: Saurus owe us 3,530 Credits
***If they die the artifacts go to their successor.
Y1: Put the Ancient One and the Eldar/Krork in contact, so he can help with the Krork's endless Waagh.
Y2: Ear to the Ground (Dragon's Nest merger details)
Y3:Inquire further what other things the Trolls with in exchange for technology (Other construction efforts, Mining, Rare Minerals, Avernite Auxiliaries on-Planet, Troll Alliance, etc)
Y4: Ask the Nynye about the Underhive Idea*
Y5: Lizardmen Diplomacy (Saurus) - New Trade, Details below**
Y6: Ask the Eldar about the Black Imperium, as well as Operation Hecatoncheir results.
We need to do ear to the ground twice to get everything. These is going to be one of the most important things
I think the troll idea is not worth it since they have nothing to offer us and will be exposed to human technology, which will piss off the Conservatives. It is in my opinion not worth it.
**New Saurus Trade:
+Low Artifact Shield (Tamia, Rakes, Vizier (Rosalinda) and Adminstratum (Isaac) positions***)
+Low Artifact Shield/Weapons (Odysseus)
-Return Dead heroes' Artifacts (Syr's Artifact Weapon and Shield, Sir Pellinore's Shield)
New Credits: Saurus owe us 3,530 Credits
***If they die the artifacts go to their successor.
The plans differ in that Shard does the Troll trade this turn while Nurgle looks into Dragon Nests Merger.
Arbites
Both have the same actions.
Nurgle uses the first year Expedite in the Lizardmen. It is a 12 year long action through I do not know if it a allowed action as nothing is build.
Mechanicus
1. Shard want to develop the Warhound Titan (61%) while Nurgel want to get the fundamentals of the Psychic Cannon. I do not know wether it will be an excotic or relic technology so it will have a chance of 22% or 2% and take 12 or 16 years of time. <- That are long odds as Double Down can not be used.
2. Both have the same plan for Scott to build 4 additinal Mobile Research Plattforms. <- Hopefully afterwards it becomes an automatic process to speed the build process up.
3. For Biologis Shard wants to look into the Bolehs Spider (breeding population bought from the Skinks) while Nurgle wants to start the long time (22 years) project of fixing the Thunder Warriors. Both are basically garanteed to scucced.
Telepathica
Ridcully: Both keep looking into the Void Dragons plans.
Shard focus afterwards inwards on the Mechanicus Cicil War and Infiltrators while Nurgle wants to research Destructive Resonances (Tzeentch).
Xavier: Both does Royal Alkahestry
Tamia: Shard lets her researh the Shrine Fairies and the Rune of Wind. Nurgle wants her to set up an Order focussed of Frequencies. <- I have to ask if that order was discussed with Durin because I do not understand its function.
Personal
Both handle Tormod the same. Both do Lessons learned Hive Fleet. Both do Recruit PDF. Both Implement the Bolehs Spider. Just ordered differently.
Shard does Recruit Hellguard while Nurgel set up the Thunder Hunters.
I still don't understand this line of thinking. They don't have to compare to SM's. SM's are very low in number and Avernus can't recruit them. We don't compare our witch Hunters to Nilfheim blanks and call Witch Hunters a waste because somebody else has better specialist units.
Because Lin's dead and he destroyed a majority of their temporal power.
There's a reason the only things left in that category by the time Lin died were things only Lin could do, the nature of, diplomacy with the lizardmen etc.
Because we're certainly not going to be doing much conversion when Lin himself told us not to do that much and slaving the action to eteranlly "the head of the ministorum met with young psykers again" would get old fast.
We've not had to do basic infrastructure since the first incursion, and witch hunters probably ain't going to get any more actions unless they get a hero...or they just get taken under Jane.
@Dragon_352
That's only for the chain that starts from that research. Knowing why and when the problems with them starts is a good idea if we want to use them regularly.
No, that still helps because it's us specifically studying those facets. Just observing them in battle when they suffer over 80% casualties gives insufficient data.
I still don't understand this line of thinking. They don't have to compare to SM's. SM's are very low in number and Avernus can't recruit them. We don't compare our witch Hunters to Nilfheim blanks and call Witch Hunters a waste because somebody else has better specialist units.
IC: Low odds of possibility + High Opportunity Cost (The massive goldmine that is Avernus species).
There are so many options for Mechanicus Biologis that are interesting. For example, every species the Lizards traded to us. (Also applies to Telepathica Psychic Materials)
Ok so everyone does know my plan is the only one that looks for the chaos power ups this turn? @Doomed Wombat you did spend a lot of time yesterday arguing with me about that.
@Portec also your comparison leaves out my plan for divining chaos power ups.
Ok so everyone does know my plan is the only one that looks for the chaos power ups this turn? @Doomed Wombat you did spend a lot of time yesterday arguing with me about that.
