La Chanson de la Victoire (The Song of Victory): La Petite Arpenteuse (Non, SV, you are a General of France in the Napoleonic War!)

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If we're going to to dig in at the bridges with infantry, I would have hoped they spent the last week digging. Ditches along the road leading off the bridge, breastworks, trenches behind, turned a couple of trees into abattises, then drilled in fighting from those trenches. I'll get a Severin omake going when I get back to my hotel room.
 
Useful dissertation:


Recruiting in Mayance/Mainz should be possible after the battle. While the Holy Roman Empire didn't like it, the Revolution didn't care what the Electors thought.

I see the edge of the woods on the hill overlooking the north bridge as a really useful point for cavalry with prepared sally routes out of the woods. Surprise is good. Cavalry on flank is good. a picket line of infantry stops the cavalry from being caught undefended in the wood and controls the hill.

Cavalry is our swift counterattack before the main body of their force is positioned. don't like all those question marks either. We are more likely to discover what is headed our way with a reconnaissance in force (outflank counter attack). If we let it be a siege then cavalry will just be food.
 
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Defending the Rhine (AvidFicReader)
Defending the Rhine

Denis Severin stared at the bridge that spanned the Rhine north of Mainz. "This thing's a bloody deathtrap! Time to make it even deadlier!"

He began barking orders to make it so. "First Battalion, on this side of the road! Second Battalion, the other side! I want ditches on either side of the road, close to the river bank as you can manage! I want them a meter wide and deep, deeper if you can manage! Pile the earth in an embankment on the side opposite the road. Thick and sturdy, but you need to be able volley fire over them!

"Yes sir!"

"Aye, Sir!"

Severin makes a crude sketch of the bridge and the west bank of the Rhine. "Third Battalion, head to that wood and fell some trees! We're going to build some abattis to impede the Prussians on the bridge. Make them three quarters the width of the bridge and road. Place the first abattis here, well within musket range. They'll bunch up as they approach and try to go around, making a big juicy target. Always leave a small gap for those feeling brave, lucky or clever to slip through. If they feel like they've no chance, they'll back out of the trap. Place a second here, but leave the gap on the opposite end of the bridge. Don't give them a straight shot when you can show them down with deliberate openings. Once more at the end of the bridge, then one every ten meters as far as the ditches reach. Should be fifty meters of ditches, so eight abattis in all. Make sure you sharpen the points to be extra intimidating."

"Aye, Capitan!"

Severin turned to issue further orders. "Fourth Battalion, another ditch and embankment behind First Battalion. I shouldn't have to say it, but make damned sure you can shoot over First's heads without shooting them in the back. Build at a thirty degree angle and continue the earthworks to the river bank, then a thirty meter section parallel to the river. Cut notches in the earthworks and lay black-painted logs in them as if they were cannon. The Americans called these Quaker guns, after some pacifist sect. That should distract the Prussian artillery."

"As you say, Capitan!"

"Fifth Battalion, build your earthworks behind Second Battalion, make sure you can cleanly shoot over their heads. If you commit friendly fire, I'll personally come and show you just how friendly it is! Lay planks so the positions in front can withdraw in good order, and so you can punish any Prussian who think they can take advantage. We'll show Brunswick that he's come a bridge too far!"

Edit: uploaded the pic to imgur, not sure if it works.
 
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[] Plan Chaos Under Heaven
-[] Disrupt: You will use your cavalry to disrupt the enemy, their lack of cavalry is going to be a clear detriment to their long term success, and as long as you have that advantage, you will raise hell.
-[] Thérèse: The Cavalry
-[] Chamans: The Cavalry
-[] de Lisle: The Artillery
-[] Severin: The Bridge
-[] de Beauharnais: The Cavalry

Attack while they're still tired!
 
I do not have a plan atm, but what I do know is that Defense and one of either Bridge or Artillery for Thérèse are mandatory choices, due to how good we are when it comes to defense and artillery and due to the fact that we're pretty good at infantry too (unlike cavalry and attack, where we have a significant malus to rolls)
 
I'm not a military buff or amateur historian, what were casualties like on losing forces in this era, and could they really withdraw in order after a battle? I'd expect that if Brunswick army is badly beaten it'd disband in all directions and essentially slip thought any attempt at imprisonment or extermination with a high percentage of the survivors of the battle.

However if it 'withdraws in order' with screens for cavalry and cavalry as discouragement to our own it'd be a juicy artillery target even if the other main army is 1-2 days away. Ironically maybe ending up disbanding as in situation 1 but with higher casualties and deaths.


These are my incompetent thoughts, so what's the reality?
 
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I do not have a plan atm, but what I do know is that Defense and one of either Bridge or Artillery for Thérèse are mandatory choices, due to how good we are when it comes to defense and artillery and due to the fact that we're pretty good at infantry too (unlike cavalry and attack, where we have a significant malus to rolls)
Really? Better put Thérèse in charge of the infantry in the north then.
Editing plan...

Link back to plan

By the time the infantry attack the flanking cavalry will have flank charged the Allies over the north bridge. They will be advancing to support the roll up. Thérèse might improve her attack rating on the experience. Something that any General has to learn. No avoiding it.
 
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It's part of the traits chosen. You can check them on the character sheet but long story short the thread decided to pile on the surveyor backstory bonus with a defensive bonus 2nd backstory, because presumably on any battle you've scouted before hand you're already there in prepared positions to defend or attack and both bonus would apply on defense and the surveyor bonnus counteracted the attack malus if the scouting was done. Not to mention the Intelligence reroll applies to scouting apparently.

Also it was the only one that started at the beginning of the war of the 1rst coalition and the bonus of 20 to defense rolls to a malus of 10 to attack rolls plus the extra stats plus noterity was one of the the better point spreads.

The most problematic part imo is that Therese is bad at cavalry command, which is the scouting force. Can't scout with cannon (or can you? Dundun dun).

But I guess that's what a sub-commanders are for.
 
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@AvidFicReader love the view from Severin, but he mght wind up attacking two bridges to cross the Main river if my plan is voted in and switches flank.
But I guess that's what a sub-commanders are for.
Yes, but I stand by what I said about Generals and attacking. It is the best form of defence and Napoleon's way of fighting uses it a lot. He uses mobility as a force multiplier.
 
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I understand that but the thread had the idea that there 'were already too many hotheads on the French army'. I don't really agree, since this is the time of mass maneuvering and we're supposed to coordinate with those hotheads in mass battles, but i also didn't argue. Up grand-strategy not to screw up i guess.

I don't think there is anything to raise that will increase attack generally like a trait can increase it but if, for instance we raise military, command or artillery to 25 we always get re-rolls on where those apply and may mitigate that malus. Just INT at 25 reroll is a great deal, for instance it saved our surveyor bonus in this last update.

Skills and stats in this system appear to be a bit weird. The info page says stats are for mental and personal and skills are for practical and 'use in society' but we just saw a stat re-roll apply to a 'practical' situation (intelligence rerolling surveying) so i don't understand. At least *some* stats would appear to influence the 'non-personal'.

Also i suspect it's a recipe for a butthurt fanbase when one skill or stat is at 25 and it's 'brother' stat is at 10 and we fail the roll because it's 'personal' or 'societal'.

I'd maybe prefer if it was described as 'stats are preparation actions' and skills are 'execution of actions'. So surveying is always a 'preparation action' and 'military actions' would be 'gotta reorganize the chain of command because X, Y and Z died' but 'command actions' would be 'gotta signal Z to reinforce Y because X died' (they all died after the battle so you should have increased command. Yikes).

Generally, preparation actions would give bonus to their 'sister' execution action, or malus, depending on their roll and if there was the opportunity to use them. In the example, it would replace the heroic X, Y, and Z characters for the next battle by their more or less skilled promoted standins, and keep applying another character bonus to new battles.

You could maybe even apply this to training, where a high 'Education' roll would subtract difficulty of the roll to increase a already huge (and difficult to raise) skill so increasing a 24 skill without omake bonus is not almost impossible if you also have 20 education (and 25 education is a 'while you were X I was studying the sword' situation because of the reroll).
 
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don't like all those question marks either.
Almost as if you don't know exactly where Brunswick will come from :whistle:

I would have drawn a troll arrow from the south, but that's not likely, based on the intel you've gotten. You can be ~90% sure that he won't cross the river with a flanking squad, thanks to taking out most of his scouting force and capturing the two sad bros.
Nice! +10 for you!
@AvidFicReader Also, did you make the pic private or something? It's asking for Google Drive permission lol...
The Americans called these Quaker guns, after sone pacifist sect.
Quakers, upon learning that a cannon's named after them: holup...
Upon learning what it is: ahhhh, almost got us there!
If yo commit friendly fire, I'll personally come and show you just how friendly it is!
Ah, Commissar Severin, good to see you! I've mind of seen him as such, actually!
what were casualties like on losing forces in this era
could they really withdraw in order after a battle?
Generally, if an army routed, the runners were taken over by the cavalry, since it's hard to catch other dudes running away while you have the same amount of equipment.
Sort of like, if you don't encircle them, then most of the soldiers will generally be able to run. Unless something like in Valmy happens where the distance was a bit close and cannons blast their formations apart. Even then, it was a head-to-head fight, where the Prussians could dissolve into the forests after shitting their pants.

If you're talking about battlefield deaths, then the time is just in that sweet spot between the medieval charge/pike square kind of deal and WWI's infamous meat grinder due to dumb tactics and deadly weapons.
Basically, the weapons will blow a dude's head clean off. If it hits. Rifled weapons aren't so common yet (the Brits might have a few of those...), in terms of both firearms and cannons. This is a time when cavalry are still good enough to charge and do terrible damage if they time their charge right, due to line tactics and slow, muzzle loading times.

In general, I'll be rolling for the outcome in case of a rout. You will also choose how you deal with the routed army, so being more bloodthirsty or aim to capture as many as possible, or letting them flee so that they may spread word of your arrival to all corners of the land while you laugh upon the ashes of their pathetic army.
Can't scout with cannon
...or can you? *vsauce music plays*

While French cannons were generally lighter than most, they aren't that light yet.
Although there's something to be said about blowing up the countryside with cannons so there's all flat terrain and no cover for the enemies to hide behind! (Don't do this)

Also, you got horses to carry the cannons around in marches, so there's that.
Yes, but I stand by what I said about Generals and attacking. It is the best form of defence and Napoleon's way of fighting uses it a lot. He uses mobility as a force multiplier.
Ah yes, maneuvering. Napoleon's one true love. He divided and conquered his enemies, kind of like one would handle a steak with knife and fork. Pin one side down with a part of his forces (somehow) and annihilate the other, smaller enemy group with a relatively larger force.
At least, that's how I understood it.
He also split his army into autonomous units under his commanders, so they could go in separate paths to catch enemies unaware or be ahead of schedule while deathball-style generals would likely be slowed down by the sheer size of a collected force.

This guy was ahead of his time, might have inspired Einstein's theory of relativity :V
I don't think there is anything to raise that will increase attack generally like a trait can increase it
As with all things, if you perform well in a task, you'll get some cool bonuses. There are diminishig returns of course, so your expectations for surveying, for example, will be higher as you succeed. It's like how parents' expectations rise as you grow older, or experience gain is relatively slower in mmorpgs.
I'm not to sure whats the difference between skills and stats in this system.
You got he main gist of it, as stats are more theoretical and skills are practical. You're going to miainly increase skills by using them (though training does help), while stats are mainly learned through study. Stats are more of a representation of what you are, kind of like SPECIAL in Fallout, compared to the same series's Skills, which are about what you can do.
Also we just saw a stat re-roll apply to a 'practical' situation (intelligence rerolling surveying) so i don't understand.
Hope the above explanation can help! The intelligence is mainly since I reasoned that surveying is not really a head-to-head roll competition. It's more of you having a list of things you need to do, and carrying them out with your happy horse friends. You're also more comfortable with surveying, so it's natural you use your massive brain to do that. (Also helps that you don't need to give speeches to do it!)
 
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Don't get me started on that impractical piece of history. :facepalm: :mad:

Please do enlighten the class about it! I'm not the most knowledgeable about weapons, so any new info is appreciated!

It was a artillery piece invented by Gustavus II Adolphus of Sweden with several assigned per regiment, it was lighter and could be moved to another position or where they were needed.

Here is a link, they explain it better:


Also a battle where they were in:
 
I think this is a good place to mention the "anmarsch-bom" or, "onward marching cannon bar", a type of handle used on lighter artillery pieces by the Swedes during the 18th and 19th centuries. They allowed the cannons to be moved by hand with the muzzle facing toward the enemy, giving them an unprecedented level of combat readiness.
Image: 1778 3pdr cannon with anmarsch-bommar
 
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Note that we don't know whether Brunswick will attack in the North or in the South. This makes outflanking him hard, because as long as he manages to hold the bridge over the Main (the river going east-west), we won't be able to get at him if our troops are on the wrong side.
 
Note that we don't know whether Brunswick will attack in the North or in the South. This makes outflanking him hard, because as long as he manages to hold the bridge over the Main (the river going east-west), we won't be able to get at him if our troops are on the wrong side.
He'll be attacking from the north, but he's mostly free to roam south along the edge of your firing range through the east side and down to the south if you let him and he wishes.
The current set up of holding the bridges is to prevent an encirclement and thus a siege. You also know he's likely going to have tired troops in the coming days, and his scouts are mostly gone, so he'll be likely heading straight for the city unless he's feeling frisky wandering around nearly blind to any changes that may have happened while he was gone.
 
[X] Plan Hammer and Anvil
-[X] Defense: You will make the enemy bleed for every inch, being flexible in movement, but never wavering in the fact that you will make them bleed, and they will either die or retreat.
-[X] Therese: The North Bridge
-[X] Chamans: The Flanking Cavalry
--[X] 3k
---[X] Move to the forest north of the city
-[X] de Lisle: The Artillery
-[X] Severin: The South Bridge
-[X] de Beauharnais: The Reserve Cavalry
--[X] 1k

[X]The Harbingers


Simple enough. The first part of the plan is to hold on all fronts, letting the coalition tire themselves out thus forcing Brunswick to put more troops. After he has run out of reserves, we have Chamans, who has been hiding out of sight, to smash through the north bridge then sweep south. Worst case scenario, Brunswick actually does send all his cavalry on our left. Chamans can quickly destroy them from his position.

Beauharnais has two jobs. First is our insurance, in case any part of the line starts wavering. The other is fooling Brunswick about our total number of cavalry. This would have him less hesitant in sending more men in, as he would no need to hold back some troops in case of a giant cavalry charge (which of course, will happen).

Harbingers just sounds cool. Anyone who sees them will know Therese is here, dread in their hearts.
 
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I am confused about the flanking plans.

I thought the idea was to move the cavalry across the river to the east side and have them hide. Then we occupy the bridge, wait until the enemy has engaged us and then our cavalry emerges to smash into their flank. Or into their artillery, if that is a better target.

But Plan Hammer and Anvil talks about our cavalry crossing the North Bridge, so @Kicker is apparently thinking of something different.

I am not sure what, though. And how is the cavalry supposed to cross the bridge anyway when that is where the our infantry is placed and where the fighting is going on?
 
I am confused about the flanking plans.

I thought the idea was to move the cavalry across the river to the east side and have them hide. Then we occupy the bridge, wait until the enemy has engaged us and then our cavalry emerges to smash into their flank. Or into their artillery, if that is a better target.

But Plan Hammer and Anvil talks about our cavalry crossing the North Bridge, so @Kicker is apparently thinking of something different.

I am not sure what, though. And how is the cavalry supposed to cross the bridge anyway when that is where the our infantry is placed and where the fighting is going on?
Well the update didn't mention if there are forests on the other side of the river, so I assume there aren't any and they're all just flat plains. It also didn't mention any other bridges or part of the river that can be wadded through. So either the available crossings are too far away, which would just tire the horses, or there aren't any. So that really leaves with just the bridges we know of. They'd be more of a morale shock, routing the tired coalition than a slamming force on our side of the bridge in my plan. They're also there in case Brunswick really did send all his cavalry to our left flank.

I'll edit my plan if I'm wrong. I'd love to send them to Brunswick's right flank and seeing him panic.
 
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Visual Representation of Forests near Mainz:
Everything else is mainly flat, to be honest. A bunch of hills in the south, perfect for ambushes or cannons. Or ambushing with cannons. Lots of flat land in the north, though. Perfect for horses to gallop.
By midday, you had gathered your squad of swift riders, as well as a few engineer officers you pulled from the ranks. Through the rest of the day, the two dozen of you walked through the city environs to plot out the areas that would be surveyed in detail the following week. There were already some good hills found in the south bank of Mainz, where one part of your army, under Severin, was already setting up. The north side of the city had flatter land, but there were forests to its west, which could provide a spot for preparing ambushes, to prevent flanks from behind. The rest of the surrounding sides were flat and good for vision. Already, numerous watchtowers were being set up with ramps to set cannons up on a line to fire across the river to the north and north-east.
 
I'm not a military buff or amateur historian, what were casualties like on losing forces in this era, and could they really withdraw in order after a battle? I'd expect that if Brunswick army is badly beaten it'd disband in all directions and essentially slip thought any attempt at imprisonment or extermination with a high percentage of the survivors of the battle.

However if it 'withdraws in order' with screens for cavalry and cavalry as discouragement to our own it'd be a juicy artillery target even if the other main army is 1-2 days away. Ironically maybe ending up disbanding as in situation 1 but with higher casualties and deaths.


These are my incompetent thoughts, so what's the reality?
Well most casualties were created by the Calvary during the retreat, best exemplified by the route of the Prussian army after jena where the shattered remains of the Prussia army world crowed fortresses, destroying moral in the fortesses leading to events like a light Calvary regamint capturing a fortress full of a division of Prussian troops and hundreds of guns (napolion famously sated that if sade General keeped it up he would have no more use for Siege artillery).
On the flip side napolion wasn't able to turn several pretty impressive victorys into anything divisive during 1813-14 becuse all of his Calvary died in Russia, arguably a much word lose then the artillery or infantry during that campaign.
 
So they do shatter but cavalry harasses them for potentially days if they don't find refuge.
I honestly expected it to be extremely impossible to hunt down more than 1/10 of thousands of people running in every direction, after days, if they don't surrender immediately ofc.

They do have another army nearby, not sure what's best to do after the battle if they break. Depends on the state of both armies i guess.

Also, not surprising that horses would all die on the russian winter when the army is starving...

without grain or grass to forage a 1000 kg horse will have a bad time.

checks:

young nappy has
Cavalry Command: 13 [+3]
Logistics: 16 [+8]
Stewardship: 17 [+10]
and Grand Strategy: 25 [+20 RR]

Must have crit failed two rolls there.


Also it's funny how counter intuitive city people like me think of animal weight. I intellectually know horses are somewhat big mammals but i never thought that adults reached the ton. The square-cube volume law really is counter intuitive. 'Horses are like, 6 adult men volume/weight right?' Nope.
 
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