[X] Take care of her tutoring session with Bai Xiao Fen, to ensure her time afterward was free.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] Take care of her tutoring session with Bai Xiao Fen, to ensure her time afterward was free.
I'm more interested in developing another Bai and the outer sect than the guy we are about to spend a lot of time scouting with, even if he is my preference for husbando.
Ji Rong... I figured we were about to get the juniors tourney arc, where all the inner sect newbies have to work together, and ling/ji have to use thier semi-shared understanding to buffer Bai and Sun. I was kinda hoping for a power of friendship trope, at least enough so Sun showing up as reinforcements when the cloud tribes fight us could be a plausibly good thing.
I'm more interested in developing another Bai and the outer sect than the guy we are about to spend a lot of time scouting with, even if he is my preference for husbando.
Ji Rong... I figured we were about to get the juniors tourney arc, where all the inner sect newbies have to work together, and ling/ji have to use thier semi-shared understanding to buffer Bai and Sun. I was kinda hoping for a power of friendship trope, at least enough so Sun showing up as reinforcements when the cloud tribes fight us could be a plausibly good thing.
- Location
- United States
I'm not saying Ji Rong can't keep up (though for me it will slightly stretch my suspension of disbelief), I'm saying that Ji Rong being higher talent than Ling Qi is hardly as effective as Asael's post (the one I originally responded to) implied.
It's not that Ling Qi is inherently lucky and that's why she got the mirror, it's that she got the mirror and that seems to have been incredibly rare. It's not that other people can't be lucky, it's that the more people have that much financial good fortune, the less the economics of the sect make sense. It's not that the mirror is a rare find, it's that it's an exceedingly rare find.
My original point remains: it's not difficult to believe that Ling Qi's exceedingly rare find amounts to superior resource acquisition that makes up for Ji Rong's higher talent. Additionally, it is my (subjective) opinion that the mirror seems to be so valuable that it must be incredibly rare such that it stretches my suspension of disbelief that Ji Rong also found something similar (not just that another in the outer sect found something similar but that the particular person who did was Ji Rong).
It seems unlikely that "doting" is enough to make up for "not the heir" and "just a follower with a crush". This is mitigated a bit because it doesn't have to make up for it, it only has to be ~80% as effective as long as Ji Rong's other resource acquisition projects are also ~80% as effective.
Again, the primary point, my original point, is that it's very easy for me to believe that Ling Qi's superior connection to a superior scion can make up for Ji Rong's higher talent. Additionally, I personally find it a bit unlikely that Sun Shao would take care of Ji Rong comparably to Cai Shenhua's consideration for Ling Qi.
Because the difference between the value of that mirror and the amount that the sect funds its inner sect disciples indicates that the mirror is exceedingly valuable which necessitates that it is exceedingly rare.
It's not that Ling Qi is inherently lucky and that's why she got the mirror, it's that she got the mirror and that seems to have been incredibly rare. It's not that other people can't be lucky, it's that the more people have that much financial good fortune, the less the economics of the sect make sense. It's not that the mirror is a rare find, it's that it's an exceedingly rare find.
My original point remains: it's not difficult to believe that Ling Qi's exceedingly rare find amounts to superior resource acquisition that makes up for Ji Rong's higher talent. Additionally, it is my (subjective) opinion that the mirror seems to be so valuable that it must be incredibly rare such that it stretches my suspension of disbelief that Ji Rong also found something similar (not just that another in the outer sect found something similar but that the particular person who did was Ji Rong).
Yes, Sun Shao dotes on Liling, but (even if we presume he doesn't want to also dote on his other descendants) even a clan head is constrained by economics and keeping his vassals, heir, and other descendants competitive with other clans.
It seems unlikely that "doting" is enough to make up for "not the heir" and "just a follower with a crush". This is mitigated a bit because it doesn't have to make up for it, it only has to be ~80% as effective as long as Ji Rong's other resource acquisition projects are also ~80% as effective.
Again, the primary point, my original point, is that it's very easy for me to believe that Ling Qi's superior connection to a superior scion can make up for Ji Rong's higher talent. Additionally, I personally find it a bit unlikely that Sun Shao would take care of Ji Rong comparably to Cai Shenhua's consideration for Ling Qi.
- Location
- United States
Err... one last reply before bed since a couple things popped up and I can't resist even though I should sleep.
Again, Ji Rong's higher talent isn't as insurmountable as you imply.
I don't see how a clan losing a major resource (cultivator descendants) would mean that clan has more resources to spare.
Weren't we guided there by a moon quest? And therefore, Ji Rong could be guided to an equivalent by a spirit patron of his own?
Look, that's not how clans work: Sun Shao gets money from trade and taxes and such, and invests it on various things. His young heirs like Liling are net drains even if they occasionally do something useful, because they consume large amounts of resources to cultivate quickly. Of course, the investment will pay off in the future, but right now she's certainly not sending any money home.
Therefore, only having one person to pay for means he has more money to invest on her.
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- Location
- Staring into the void
A comment from Xiulan that she wants one, showing she is still ambitious. Or in a list of several beasts/plants as part of research for a hunting trip to feed Zhengui. Or, even just some extra info when LQ was researching river eel, that all the types lived near the sect.
Sundancer
Always drifting~
- Location
- Germany
There's nothing to apologize for, Yrsillar. I didn't think your tone was particularly harsh or unwarranted given the level and thought behind some of the critique. It was maybe not *ideal* but fairly human.
I hope you aren't just writing the story to entertain people or please your patrons but also because you enjoy it yourself. If you have a vision, and a tale you want to tell, stick to it. Reflect on advice or feedback others give you but opinions and taste vary and there is no perfect story or the way to write on. Furthermore, very few us of here are particularly qualified to give good critique or expert authorial advice... That doesn't mean the voices of us dirty commoners and masses are unimportant but keep in mind that we don't know what we want. We can just complain when we see something we don't like and then feebly struggle for words to put the issue into terms.
One of the writing advice I have read, and which stuck with me, is that a reader will identify a valid issue in a story but they will (almost always) be wrong about what the actual problem is or what to do about it. Sounds pretty smart and convincing to me.
Of course, that doesn't stop me from giving my own misguided opinion to this whole 'mess'.
First of all, it's a great update and I enjoyed our downtime and talking with friends. I am a sucker for such character interaction and I could read hundreds of pages of just slice of life. I should actually review this more, but I'll try to to stick to the actual issue now.
Ji "Baron" Rong.
I don't like him, and his edgy Xianxia archetype and his talent and how he is a big, tough guy who doesn't fear no man.
That doesn't mean he should be written out of the story, or ignored. Or that I would even want to see him forgotten (well, I wouldn't be too sad it happens...). But its fine to have characters that I, or others, don't like in a story. It might even be good for a story.
What might be problematic, like Abeologos already said, is that we don't *feel* the Baron's struggles. We hear about his tales of success, his achievements, how he overcomes hurdles and bounces back after great loss (time-out, berserk elixir with supposed side-effects, etc) and when we look back... he is just there. Breathing down our neck and poised to pounce, dangerous as ever no matter what we do or how many unlikely successes, lucky encounters or Great Spirit boons we amass. Ling Qi, and the players, are trying to advance and grow stronger, stronger than, for example, the Baron and outgrow him. Yet no matter what we do, what blessings we receive, for this matter, it doesn't seem to amount to much.
That is fine.
The story doesn't have to be about Ling Qi's inevitable rise to greatness, to power and how she leaves everyone in the dust (... although given the characters and your writing so far, I daresay you could make even that story work, Yrsillar)
She doesn't need to leave everyone in said dust or beat Liling silly next update (although actually closing the gap and standing on the same level as her sometime would be... cool..., even if extremely unlikely and maybe setting-incompatible (maybe... Ducal heirs are powerful, but there are other powers in the setting and sometimes, something just comes out of left field; arguably the Necromancer-Pretender, or Shenhua's rise or probably a dozen other examples in Imperial History))
The Baron doesn't have to fall behind or get stuck in Green or something. It might happen, of course, but it's fine if he stays a dangerous factor and follows Ling Qi's rise. Or even jumps ahead sometime (oh, the salt... and I'd totally cry foul about it!)
What would be neat though would be to not only read about the Baron's success and inevitable rise to greatness, but also about his struggles. Not necessarily his failures, because he can't allow himself many. Yet the struggles and trials which Ling Qi undergoes make her story interesting and let me empathize with her (yes, I am a superhuman Cultivator in a Deathworld, too. Thanks for asking). It's what makes her story interesting and a lot more than a simple power fantasy. Just the same, reading about the Baron's struggles, doubts and fears (oh, I forgot... he's a guy, so he doesn't have those. Silly me.) would go a long way to make him more tolerable, to see his advancement not as hand-outs or power ups. Maybe even make him likeable although that doesn't have to be a goal.
Maybe even show how some things don't go optimal for him despite his rise in power. Maybe he chaffs increasingly under being Liling's vassal, maybe he is beginning to have doubts about his buy-in into the system, maybe he is really torn up about his sister getting eaten. Maybe his last rice cracker disagreed with him, who knows. It would humanize him a lot to see some of it.
That goes for any and all characters, of course, and naturally, the problem is what to show, and what to write. I'd love to read a dozen chapters or more about Meizhen alone. But I am terrible at pacing or picking priorities and my advice to show some of the Baron's struggle might just be entirely wrong. *shrugs* I don't know, just what went through my head.
((I also disagree with Arkeus and probably? Erebael about how many special people there be or how many outliers should be near us and shown in the story, or that we need some major setbacks, but that's an entirely different subject))
The one definite advice I want to give, Yrsillar, is *don't let the readers dictate the story*. We don't know what we want.
I lied. The second definite advice I want to give is to not lose the fun at writing your story, and keep enjoying it. Even despite our ridiculous whining or the horrors that are *math* and power discussions. We all enjoy the story, else we wouldn't be here and whine, and ideally, it would stay something you enjoy and not something that becomes work or 'bothersome'. Well. Maybe except the math stuff.
I hope you aren't just writing the story to entertain people or please your patrons but also because you enjoy it yourself. If you have a vision, and a tale you want to tell, stick to it. Reflect on advice or feedback others give you but opinions and taste vary and there is no perfect story or the way to write on. Furthermore, very few us of here are particularly qualified to give good critique or expert authorial advice... That doesn't mean the voices of us dirty commoners and masses are unimportant but keep in mind that we don't know what we want. We can just complain when we see something we don't like and then feebly struggle for words to put the issue into terms.
One of the writing advice I have read, and which stuck with me, is that a reader will identify a valid issue in a story but they will (almost always) be wrong about what the actual problem is or what to do about it. Sounds pretty smart and convincing to me.
Of course, that doesn't stop me from giving my own misguided opinion to this whole 'mess'.
First of all, it's a great update and I enjoyed our downtime and talking with friends. I am a sucker for such character interaction and I could read hundreds of pages of just slice of life. I should actually review this more, but I'll try to to stick to the actual issue now.
Ji "Baron" Rong.
I don't like him, and his edgy Xianxia archetype and his talent and how he is a big, tough guy who doesn't fear no man.
That doesn't mean he should be written out of the story, or ignored. Or that I would even want to see him forgotten (well, I wouldn't be too sad it happens...). But its fine to have characters that I, or others, don't like in a story. It might even be good for a story.
What might be problematic, like Abeologos already said, is that we don't *feel* the Baron's struggles. We hear about his tales of success, his achievements, how he overcomes hurdles and bounces back after great loss (time-out, berserk elixir with supposed side-effects, etc) and when we look back... he is just there. Breathing down our neck and poised to pounce, dangerous as ever no matter what we do or how many unlikely successes, lucky encounters or Great Spirit boons we amass. Ling Qi, and the players, are trying to advance and grow stronger, stronger than, for example, the Baron and outgrow him. Yet no matter what we do, what blessings we receive, for this matter, it doesn't seem to amount to much.
That is fine.
The story doesn't have to be about Ling Qi's inevitable rise to greatness, to power and how she leaves everyone in the dust (... although given the characters and your writing so far, I daresay you could make even that story work, Yrsillar)
She doesn't need to leave everyone in said dust or beat Liling silly next update (although actually closing the gap and standing on the same level as her sometime would be... cool..., even if extremely unlikely and maybe setting-incompatible (maybe... Ducal heirs are powerful, but there are other powers in the setting and sometimes, something just comes out of left field; arguably the Necromancer-Pretender, or Shenhua's rise or probably a dozen other examples in Imperial History))
The Baron doesn't have to fall behind or get stuck in Green or something. It might happen, of course, but it's fine if he stays a dangerous factor and follows Ling Qi's rise. Or even jumps ahead sometime (oh, the salt... and I'd totally cry foul about it!)
What would be neat though would be to not only read about the Baron's success and inevitable rise to greatness, but also about his struggles. Not necessarily his failures, because he can't allow himself many. Yet the struggles and trials which Ling Qi undergoes make her story interesting and let me empathize with her (yes, I am a superhuman Cultivator in a Deathworld, too. Thanks for asking). It's what makes her story interesting and a lot more than a simple power fantasy. Just the same, reading about the Baron's struggles, doubts and fears (oh, I forgot... he's a guy, so he doesn't have those. Silly me.) would go a long way to make him more tolerable, to see his advancement not as hand-outs or power ups. Maybe even make him likeable although that doesn't have to be a goal.
Maybe even show how some things don't go optimal for him despite his rise in power. Maybe he chaffs increasingly under being Liling's vassal, maybe he is beginning to have doubts about his buy-in into the system, maybe he is really torn up about his sister getting eaten. Maybe his last rice cracker disagreed with him, who knows. It would humanize him a lot to see some of it.
That goes for any and all characters, of course, and naturally, the problem is what to show, and what to write. I'd love to read a dozen chapters or more about Meizhen alone. But I am terrible at pacing or picking priorities and my advice to show some of the Baron's struggle might just be entirely wrong. *shrugs* I don't know, just what went through my head.
((I also disagree with Arkeus and probably? Erebael about how many special people there be or how many outliers should be near us and shown in the story, or that we need some major setbacks, but that's an entirely different subject))
The one definite advice I want to give, Yrsillar, is *don't let the readers dictate the story*. We don't know what we want.
I lied. The second definite advice I want to give is to not lose the fun at writing your story, and keep enjoying it. Even despite our ridiculous whining or the horrors that are *math* and power discussions. We all enjoy the story, else we wouldn't be here and whine, and ideally, it would stay something you enjoy and not something that becomes work or 'bothersome'. Well. Maybe except the math stuff.
Can I just say how I appreciate the low key threats Xuilan manages to say without even breathing.
And if Sun Shao can keep up his "Army of baseline third realms" in spite of murderjungle attrition he has the free space to keep on giving Liling whatever she needs to succeed.
Its not like he hasnt before. And hes bucked far more important trends for the sake of his family than just giving Liling spending money.
Your assumption just doesnt account for Lilings exceptional circumstances.
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
That's silly, people are just jelly that we now have competetion in the "Race for all four Guardian Beasts before 20/Cyan".
Besides, it's a quest format so how much characterization can up be expected to provide for people we never vote to interact with.
Him spending time in the Archives is great progression.
It's something that the Rong we've seen on screen would think was a waste of time and points that could be spent on drugs or Archive arts from above the first floor.
Where does this come from?
FoD Rong appeared to be a Thug, dismissive of all noble culture and decorum as nothing but gilding on shit and lies bastards like the one that killed his sister tell themselves so they can (not) sleep at night.
Then he sees the Best Thug he had ever met get beaten by a proper Imperial Lady. Not with clever tricks, numbers, or cultivation advantage but in a straight fair fight that ended with Meizhen coated in mud and blood.
Where does that development go?
Well, he studied politics then nabbed a Dragon.
- Location
- United States
[X] Take care of her tutoring session with Bai Xiao Fen, to ensure her time afterward was free.
- Location
- California
[X] Seek out Liao Zhu, there were things she wanted to get out of her mind, and she thought her senior brother might have useful insights.
Best husbando material so far.
Best husbando material so far.
DeusExBritannia
Red-White-Black-White
- Location
- Texas
[X] Seek out Liao Zhu, there were things she wanted to get out of her mind, and she thought her senior brother might have useful insights.
You know, with how everyone is calling our wayward student "Fen Fen" in-thread, I'm really hoping Ling Qi starts calling her that in-quest. Kohai are made for teasing.
You know, with how everyone is calling our wayward student "Fen Fen" in-thread, I'm really hoping Ling Qi starts calling her that in-quest. Kohai are made for teasing.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Guys. Something just occurred to me.
What if Ji Rong didn't beat the dragon? What if he now has to run around calling the dragon boss until he manages to pull out a win?
There'd have to be some amount of leeway given by the Sect to allow for one of their disciples acting as an underlying to a spirit, and it depends on how much the dragon in charge would change his current lifestyle, but it's a funny thought either way.
What if Ji Rong didn't beat the dragon? What if he now has to run around calling the dragon boss until he manages to pull out a win?
There'd have to be some amount of leeway given by the Sect to allow for one of their disciples acting as an underlying to a spirit, and it depends on how much the dragon in charge would change his current lifestyle, but it's a funny thought either way.
It's insurmountable on anything like a level playing field.
Remember, he lost well over a month of cultivation time, yet caught up to us in a few weeks.
Basically, to stay ahead, We'd need to consistently pull in significantly more resources then he does.
Which, given his seeming lack of patronage, is feasible. The problem is that, then the number are in our favor consistently, meaning we race ahead.
You could balance it out with just enough luck to level it out, but what's the point? He's not compelling as a rival.
He and LQ are opposed only coincidentally. There really isn't much going on there besides maybe a little bitterness from the tourney. Even that punching bag, Zhou Chen, has a more compelling reasons for pursuing a grudge.
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A perfect opportunity for me, then!
[X] Take care of her tutoring session with Bai Xiao Fen, to ensure her time afterward was free.
[X] Seek out Liao Zhu, there were things she wanted to get out of her mind, and she thought her senior brother might have useful insights.
But! But think of the healing power of starting at moon senpai's glorious abs!
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
[X] Seek out Liao Zhu, there were things she wanted to get out of her mind, and she thought her senior brother might have useful insights.
Surprisingly close vote but then Xiao Fen is pretty adorable. Better get that character development out of the way first though, with the help of someone that aspires to know where the line between murder and justice should be.
Surprisingly close vote but then Xiao Fen is pretty adorable. Better get that character development out of the way first though, with the help of someone that aspires to know where the line between murder and justice should be.