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Aircraft Design Company- Matsura's Planes Are Always Fastest!

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Character Sheet
  • Informational


    • ​
    Stress
    0​
    Office Stress
    0​
    XP
    5​

    Matsura Asuka
    Head Designer for Ohara Airworks
    Age 24 (Legally 25)
    Year 12 AF (After Flight)

    Design Stats
    Aerodynamics Engineering - +2
    Structural Engineering - +2
    Chemical Engineering - +1
    Mechanical Engineering - +1
    Ballistics Engineering - +1
    Electrical Engineering - 0

    Personal/Political Stats
    Social Skills - 0
    Politics Skills - 0
    Importance - 2
    Income - 1
    Investments - Ohara

    Resources
    Power - 0
    Wealth - 2

    Designs
    Type 1 Series - Military Variation (Designated T1M1)
    Type 2 Racer (World Speed Record October 1910-April 1911, 180kph)
    Model 2 Scout (Designated T1M2)
    Navy Scout Prototype (Drowned Rat)
    Dive Bomber B1M1 "Duck"
    Machine Gun Carrier R1A "Dragonfly" (World Speed Record May-July 1911, 200kph)
    Naval Rescue Water-Landing Supply Plane NR1M0 "Dolphin" (World speed record 240kph)
    Rhino Demon Train Hunter
    The world's first airliner
    The world's first pulsejet airplane

    Assets
    Slide Rule
    Computator (1 Reroll per Routine)

    Languages
    Albian
    Gallian

    Familiar Vices
    Drinking
    Prostitutes
    Dancing

    Family Life
    - Engaged to Arita Yachi, formerly the leading Ace in the Imperial Army. Designated #1 Cutest Army Boy, he's having some serious problems with PTSD right now.
    - Taking a second try at dating Mikami Kiho, ex-dockerwork from the south.

    Upgrades
    - 3 XP to upgrade a stat.

    Ohara Airworks
    Start Up, Imperial Capital, Akitsukuni

    Owner
    - Mr. Ohara, Rich. Aircraft Enthusiast. Business guy.

    Engineers

    Kibe Koume, 26, Office Manager
    Tiny & angry, Kibe went to school in Albia, picking up the language, the religion, and a fuckload of swear words. Speaks Albian.
    Mechanical +2, Ballistics +1
    Office Manager: If Kibe is not assigned to a team, the Office Stress is reduced by 1.

    Sakane Jun, 26, Second Team Leader
    A soured patriot, Sakane is married and has a young child being raised gender-neutrally. His two brothers who fought in the war.
    Structural +2, Aerodynamics +1
    Team Leader: If there are any additional projects, Sakane will lead them.
    Joinery: Sakane has training in the traditional Akitsukuni carpentry art of joinery, creating complex self-supporting joints with no fasteners or glue. When working with non-monocoque wooden spars or ribs, +1 Structural.

    Tezuka Kenji, ???
    A stoner with occasional flashes of insight. Nobody really knows what he does, but he's probably useful?
    Aerodynamics +2, Chemical +1
    Flashes of Brilliance: Each natural 10 rolled by any team Tezuka is assigned to gives +1 forward to the next research roll.

    Hasegawa Morio, 26
    A hopeless nerd with a photography habit, mostly on account of developing his own film, Hasegawa seems to do nothing but work and stack card houses, but somehow has an incredible attractive boyfriend. Speaks Gallian.
    Chemical +2, Ballistic +1
    Silent Workhorse: Hasegawa can work on two different projects at once for no cost to Office Stress, providing they use different stats.

    Kawamura Yosai, 25.
    Serially successful womanizer and incredibly attractive, Kawamura doesn't seem to have much of a personality outside of seducing women. Well, except for that time he seduced Asuka, which nobody talks about. Speaks Dyske.
    Structural +2, Electrical +1, Social +1
    Easily Distracted: If Kawamura is working on the same team as a female or non-binary employee, the team is at -1d10.

    Koide Hatsu, 24.
    One of the few female graduates of an Akitsukuni engineering school, Koide is brilliant and incredibly driven, but her first job at Akibara was both humiliating and exposed her to an abusive coworker. Her father is a rich businessman with factories in Joseon, and she's engaged to Ken from Castles of Steel. Speaks Joseon.
    Mechanical +2, Structural +1
    No Sleep: If you let her, Koide will work herself to death. She can work a second project for no Office Stress, but all her stats will be reduced to 1 for the routine.

    Kobayashi Ayao, ???
    Disowned heiress of the Kobayashi family, all Kobayashi wanted was a career and to be a modern woman. For her trouble, a cousin threw acid on her, scarring her face, neck, much of her torso, and her left arm. Despite appearing serene and above it all, she's actually an avowed communist activist and baseball player.
    Aerodynamics +2, Social +2

    Adachi Ren, 24
    Adachi learned chemistry from her father, one of the most famous chemical engineers in the country, rather than through formal schooling. She's married, has a kid, and takes spirituality very seriously. Yes, you did the math right, she had Yuki when she was 17. It's 1912, folks.
    Chemical +2, Electrical +1
    Young Mother: Adachi will cause double Office Stress if she has to work multiple tasks.

    Uyeno Sei, Ballistics Engineer, 31.
    The oldest member of the crew, this is Uyeno's second career. Her first was as an officer in the Imperial Navy with specialized technical training: her very promising career was cut short by her transition. Her work in a naval arsenal on machine-guns landed her the job here. Briefly dated Satomi (the age range is a bit creepy but again, 1912), she's missing a piece of her ear and is deaf on that side, from an exploding cannon. Recently returned from Varnmark from experimental surgery, she's known for her skill navigating gendered bureaucracy.
    Ballistic +3

    Mi Kyung-Jae, 23
    A recent graduate of the Imperial College of Heijo, Mi is from the recently annexed territory of Joseon. For those keeping track at home, that means he's a Korean national living in Imperial Japan in 1912. We haven't seen much of his personality because he's rightfully terrified of everything around him. He has a specialty in endurance engine design and modification. Speaks Joseon.
    Mechanical +1, Chemical +1
    Endurance Engines: Mi has an excellent understanding of metallurgy and tolerances. Any engine he works on gains +1 Reliability if a 16+ is rolled.
    Pulsejet Wizard: Mi is now one of the world's leading experts on the pulsejet engine. He can be given his own project to custom-craft pulsejet engines, and he gives +1 to any pulsejet-related project.
    Joseon National: Mi does not have security clearance to work on any top-secret projects.

    Miyoshi Shigeri, 23.
    A non-binary person and admirer of Asuka's work, they were in an support role in the Army before joining the company.
    Structural +1, Mechanical +1, Aerodynamic +1
    Mechanic: Miyoshi has some experience repairing and refurbishing aircraft. They get +1 if assigned on the clean-up phase.


    Other Employees
    - Ohara Satomi, 22, Mr. Ohara's niece and the company test pilot, Ohara is a general lesbian disaster. She's good at flying planes, driving cars, and kissing girls. She's bad at being patient, being respectable, and sticking to literally anyones conceptions of gender roles. Deeply in lesbians with Coralie D'Amboise.
    - Fujkikawa Sotatsu, old, modelmaker. He's an old man and toymaker and we don't see much of him because he locks himself in his workshop a lot. He's friends with Kawamura?

    Assets
    - Engine Test Rig (Allows engine tweaking and optimization.
    - Wind Tunnel (+1 Aerodynamics)
    - Rapid Prototype Lab (+1 Clean Up)
    Expanded Cast

    Akitsukuni Industry
    - Homura Mohoko: Head Engine Designer for Kobayashi. First female engineer in the country. A lot of sex appeal.
    - Okumura: Head of Akibara aircraft design.
    - Yamanaka Hajime: Kobayashi engineer. Young and eager.
    - Igarashi Masazumi: Kobayashi engineer. Reserved and experienced.
    - Admiral Akibara Toru: Imperial Navy Admiral. Maximum nepotism. Maximum douchebag.
    - Lt.Cmnd Akibara Shinzo: The above's son. A hottie but very forward.



    Character Families
    - Matsura(?) Mizuko: Asuka's sister. Was paralyzed in an accident in Asuka's first flight. Lives Elsewhere and is married now. Can't forgive Asuka, even though she's tried.
    - Adachi Motoki: Adachi's husband, an accountant. Legally blind.
    - Adachi Yuki: Adachi's 7 year old daughter and wannabe pilot. Very adorable.
    - Yachi's Brother: Exists.
    - Sakane's Wife: Exists. Drives him a bit crazy, but he loves her.
    - Yachi's Brother's Wife: Exists. Is statistically likely to be pregnant.
    - Lt. Coralie D'Amboise: Gallian pilot in exile. Satomi's girlfriend. 25. Accomplished bisexual duelist. She flew in the war for a single day, and for her troubles got a hole blown in her cheek and had her left arm paralyzed.

    Akisukuni Army & Ex-Army
    - Lt. Torio Tanaka: Yachi's former observer as an enlisted man. Was jumped up to fly Ducks and lost a leg on his first mission. A trained painter, married to Torio Saya.
    - Captain Amari Shiro: A Dragonfly pilot who ended up flying as Yachi's partner. Kind of delightfully twinky. They sorta slept together at one point, which wasn't great. He lost his previous boyfriend in the April Offensive and turned his plane into a shrine. He was shot in the gut and is still recovering.
    - Major Izuhara: Logistics officer, Imperial Army, this bespectled officer stood up to the Caspian Crown Prince and accidentally kicked off the Akitsikuni-Caspian War. The guilt was so much that, after almost a year of running Army procurement, he shot himself in a phone both.
    - Captain Nakai Sekien: Army scout pilot. First person to drop a bomb from an airplane, later head of the Duck Squadrons.
    - Captain Teshima: A Desk pilot that fought with Yachi. Lost an arm in the process, took over for Major Izuhara after his death. Seems cheery despite it all.
    - Captain Nashio: A real piece of shit dude and probably a rapist, he's also a war hero as the second-highest scoring ace on the Akitsukuni side. He was a young shitty kid in way over his head but it's no excuse.
    - Lt. Kinjo: Kind of a dumb lump and Nashio's friend, one of the desk pilots. Dead at 19.
    - Lt. Okazaki: Yachi's friend from before the war and pilot, he died in a spin in his dragonfly. His death probably hit Yachi the hardest.

    Westerners
    - Rose & Antoinette Sears: Pioneers of flight. Sisters. Black in 1910s not!America. Yikes.
    - Timina Guasti: Famous aircraft designer from Otrusia. Likes big planes and green.
    - Prince Protasov Vasilyevich: Crown Prince of Great Caspia. Real dick. You gotta hand it to him though, a decent flier.
    - Count von Zeppelin: Invented rigid airships. Runs a successful airline business. Damned impressive.
    - Bennhold: Aircraft Engineer. Experimenting with metal aircraft.
    - Aileen Middlemiss: Albian reporter for the Artimis Times. Well meaning and oblivious.
    Available Tech
    • Materials: Wood, Duralumin, Molded Wood, Wood & Silk Composite, etc
    • All engine mounts
    • All wing types
    • Basic reinforcement
    • Wing warping and ailerons
    • Basic water radiators
    • Flying Wings
    • Semi-Monocoque design (requires at least half the slots have frame pieces)
    • Valved pulsejets
    • Basic weapon mounts and turrets
    Tech not Yet Developed
    • Custom engines
    • Monocoque construction
    • Cantilever Wings and associated tech
    • V and T tails
    • Tailless designs
    • Aluminum and titanium
    • Cellulose surfacing
    • Any kind of radar
    • Weapon accessability mods
    • Interruptor gear
    • Geared propellers
    • And Maybe Other Stuff
    Akitsukuni
    Island Nation

    Government
    Constitutional Monarchy
    - The democratic portions of the government are dubiously legitimate.
    - The head of state is the Empress of Akitsukuni. She gives her blessing to newly formed governments.
    - The Navy and a small number of families have undue influence on politics.

    Economy
    Developing Mixed Market
    - Most industry is controlled by a small number of wealthy, family-owned companies.
    - The state provides most contracts to industry. Consumer good market is anemic.
    - Exports are few, mostly cultural.
    - Imports are raw minerals, food, oil, and expertise.
    - Currently suffering an economic crash after the last war.

    Politics
    The Diet is currently ruled by a Constitutional Nationalist government. It has a system of nonlocal proportional representation, with representatives appointed by the party in accordance to their share of the vote.
    - Constitutional Nationalists: 50%
    - Purity Club: 9%
    - New Independents: 26%
    - Fairness Association: 11%
    - United Communist League: 2%
    - Monarchists: 1%
    - Assorted Fringe Parties: 5%

    Demographics
    Akitsukuni is mostly very ethnically homogeneous. Around 5% of the population are various minorities, most from nearby countries. Roughly .1% are westerners here for business or in advisory positions.
    - Population: 55 Million
    - Religion: Mostly Kodo. Roughly 2% of the population follows western religions.
    - Wealth: Most wealth is concentrated in the top 5% of the country. Nearly 20% of the population lives in conditions indistinguishable from peasantry.
    - Urbanization: Heavily urbanized for a small economy: 35% and rapidly growing.

    Military
    At Peace
    - Imperial Akitsukuni Navy (IAN): The 6th largest in the world, and the most experienced.
    - Imperial Akitsukuni Army (IAA): 150,000 highly experienced soldiers, and a considerable reserve.

    Aspects
    - Poor Resources: Aluminum costs +1.
    - Damn Akitsukuni Engines!: Engines have -1 Reliability.



    The Main Character Of This Quest Is Nonbinary And Uses They/Them Pronouns.

    I Am Putting This Here Because The Next Person To Misgender Them Is Getting Yeeted Into The Trash

    Also here's the Gayaverse TV Tropes page, because why not.​
     
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  • Informational
    • open_sketchbook said:
    Toughness will help a plane if there are accidents or incidents.
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    Okay, but to clarify: over and above excess max strain, or just equivalently to it? If there was a plane with max strain 30 and toughness 20, and one with max strain 40 and toughness 10, is the first one meaningfully more survivable than the second if they otherwise have the same characteristics?
     
    Nah, they are roughly equivalent in that case. If you can push your Strain up high, its generally better to do that than to try for toughness. Toughness is just A Nice Bonus right now.

    (Considering making toughness get multiplied or something like that, especially because the new damage system I'm experimenting with will likely trend damage numbers higher in combat use)
     
    open_sketchbook said:
    Nah, they are roughly equivalent in that case. If you can push your Strain up high, its generally better to do that than to try for toughness. Toughness is just A Nice Bonus right now.

    (Considering making toughness get multiplied or something like that, especially because the new damage system I'm experimenting with will likely trend damage numbers higher in combat use)
    Click to expand...
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    Okay, great.

    In that case, the fast version of the droop-wing is looking pretty good. Still a little less sturdy than the regular, but not all that much and it can handle a dive better. If people want, I can do a lot to close the gap by replacing wooden struts with steel, but I think it's probably good enough and keeping the cost low is more important.
     
    brmj said:
    I find it really interesting that all these radically different designs are converging on almost the exact same stats. It suggests a pretty balanced rule system, with no one approach dominating and a lot of room to make unusual choices. Though the fact that the one normal one ended up slightly inferior to most of the others also says something too. If that's the case more generally, I'm not sure what I think about that. I like the kind of oddities we produce being viable, but the normal approach ought to be viable too. I guess the Dromedary was a bit easier to design than these other ones have been, but I don't know if that was because it was more normal, or just because there was much less solution space to explore. Still, it's close enough in performance that I'm not too worried about the implications.
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    Well, there's a lot of stuff not being considered.

    The Droop-Wing, I'd be hella leery of on account of the complex wing geometry that doesn't seem to buy me much more than the Dromedary. I'd be disinclined to approve it on grounds of unnecessary complexity for minimal-to-no benefit.

    The Donkey's flying rudder is freaky from maintenance and pilot handling characteristic perspectives, because flying rudders are really susceptible to being over deflected (without computer control systems at least), causing the airplane to violently overcorrect. Violent corrections to violent overcorrections have a tendency to rip said rudder off the airplane completely, and now you're dead. Be aware that this isn't even restricted to flying rudders: Gulfstream had a few horrifying incidents where the pilot reacted incorrectly when taking off in one of their business jets, did the violent overcorrection thing I just described, ripped the vertical and horizontal tails off, and then crashed killing everyone on board. We're 100% not doing this kind of risk assessment in this quest. Also its parasol wing makes me <thinking face emoji>.

    Joseon Express is worse, because moving the entire rear wing is asking for Horrifying Fuckery. Like not only would it be a painful son of a bitch to maneuver, everything I just described about overcorrections also applies, and you'd also have to design and manufacture the mechanisms to make all this possible, which are not only probably very complex but also need to be strengthened to hell and tested extravagantly to ensure you don't have them fail at an inconvenient time. Which, since it's the horizontal stabilizer, means that if they ever fail in flight the pilot and everyone aboard is 100% dead.

    The Dagon and the Daimyo seem restrained by comparison, at least going by what I see in their descriptions, but I think both have the flying rudder or flying elevator or both, so yeah.

    I'm not saying these things to try and shoot anyone down. Trying to incorporate all that commentary into the rules would be the most horrifying shitshow this side of discussing politics in a bar while high on ketamine (or something). But it's probably the reason why weird ass planes are so viable and conventional planes that are nearly identical are scoring just a tad lower. The Crazy Weird Fuckery often can get you a performance boost in real life, but you don't go for it because you don't want to risk a multi-billion dollar project on it.
     
    flying control surfaces were generally less dangerous back in the day because at lower speeds they don't tend to act too evil. the Fokker Eindeckers got away with them.
     
    Crasian01 said:
    Well, there's a lot of stuff not being considered.

    The Droop-Wing, I'd be hella leery of on account of the complex wing geometry that doesn't seem to buy me much more than the Dromedary. I'd be disinclined to approve it on grounds of unnecessary complexity for minimal-to-no benefit.

    The Donkey's flying rudder is freaky from maintenance and pilot handling characteristic perspectives, because flying rudders are really susceptible to being over deflected (without computer control systems at least), causing the airplane to violently overcorrect. Violent corrections to violent overcorrections have a tendency to rip said rudder off the airplane completely, and now you're dead. Be aware that this isn't even restricted to flying rudders: Gulfstream had a few horrifying incidents where the pilot reacted incorrectly when taking off in one of their business jets, did the violent overcorrection thing I just described, ripped the vertical and horizontal tails off, and then crashed killing everyone on board. We're 100% not doing this kind of risk assessment in this quest. Also its parasol wing makes me <thinking face emoji>.

    Joseon Express is worse, because moving the entire rear wing is asking for Horrifying Fuckery. Like not only would it be a painful son of a bitch to maneuver, everything I just described about overcorrections also applies, and you'd also have to design and manufacture the mechanisms to make all this possible, which are not only probably very complex but also need to be strengthened to hell and tested extravagantly to ensure you don't have them fail at an inconvenient time. Which, since it's the horizontal stabilizer, means that if they ever fail in flight the pilot and everyone aboard is 100% dead.

    The Dagon and the Daimyo seem restrained by comparison, at least going by what I see in their descriptions, but I think both have the flying rudder or flying elevator or both, so yeah.

    I'm not saying these things to try and shoot anyone down. Trying to incorporate all that commentary into the rules would be the most horrifying shitshow this side of discussing politics in a bar while high on ketamine (or something). But it's probably the reason why weird ass planes are so viable and conventional planes that are nearly identical are scoring just a tad lower. The Crazy Weird Fuckery often can get you a performance boost in real life, but you don't go for it because you don't want to risk a multi-billion dollar project on it.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Most of these planes will actively be trying to include flying control surfaces, I think, to hit the design sweet spot in stability management and to expand the otherwise small ideal control range we see at this point.
     
    I'm going to be away from my computer for a while, but JER1 is almost certainly getting more revisions just because @thepsyborg and I are getting different outputs for the same inputs.

    At this point I recognize that JER1 isn't going to win, but dang it, I want there to be at least one thing that it does better than the other planes.
     
    Crasian01 said:
    Well, there's a lot of stuff not being considered.

    The Droop-Wing, I'd be hella leery of on account of the complex wing geometry that doesn't seem to buy me much more than the Dromedary. I'd be disinclined to approve it on grounds of unnecessary complexity for minimal-to-no benefit.

    The Donkey's flying rudder is freaky from maintenance and pilot handling characteristic perspectives, because flying rudders are really susceptible to being over deflected (without computer control systems at least), causing the airplane to violently overcorrect. Violent corrections to violent overcorrections have a tendency to rip said rudder off the airplane completely, and now you're dead. Be aware that this isn't even restricted to flying rudders: Gulfstream had a few horrifying incidents where the pilot reacted incorrectly when taking off in one of their business jets, did the violent overcorrection thing I just described, ripped the vertical and horizontal tails off, and then crashed killing everyone on board. We're 100% not doing this kind of risk assessment in this quest. Also its parasol wing makes me <thinking face emoji>.

    Joseon Express is worse, because moving the entire rear wing is asking for Horrifying Fuckery. Like not only would it be a painful son of a bitch to maneuver, everything I just described about overcorrections also applies, and you'd also have to design and manufacture the mechanisms to make all this possible, which are not only probably very complex but also need to be strengthened to hell and tested extravagantly to ensure you don't have them fail at an inconvenient time. Which, since it's the horizontal stabilizer, means that if they ever fail in flight the pilot and everyone aboard is 100% dead.

    The Dagon and the Daimyo seem restrained by comparison, at least going by what I see in their descriptions, but I think both have the flying rudder or flying elevator or both, so yeah.

    I'm not saying these things to try and shoot anyone down. Trying to incorporate all that commentary into the rules would be the most horrifying shitshow this side of discussing politics in a bar while high on ketamine (or something). But it's probably the reason why weird ass planes are so viable and conventional planes that are nearly identical are scoring just a tad lower. The Crazy Weird Fuckery often can get you a performance boost in real life, but you don't go for it because you don't want to risk a multi-billion dollar project on it.
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    Those are some really interesting insights. Your points about the extra costs and risks in the design process discouraging the weird stuff in real life, even when it has the potential to be a little better, makes a lot of sense and makes me feel better about some of the results we are seeing. That said, I think it's perhaps possible to incorporate some of those concerns somehow, whether it's adding or increasing stability penalties, increasing costs to represent engineering efforts, or something else entirely, so long as it is done with appropriate care and thoughtfulness. That said, see below.
    Himmelhand said:
    Most of these planes will actively be trying to include flying control surfaces, I think, to hit the design sweet spot in stability management and to expand the otherwise small ideal control range we see at this point.
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    This. Entirely this. Any time you see me using a flying control surface, it is because the plane otherwise risks being too stable to fly easily, and this is one of the easiest ways to help counteract that under the current rules, with a nice bonus as a side benefit. If I could reduce stability by shifting the fuselage around, as @Crasian01 suggested in the other thread, then I probably wouldn't use them. Well, I still might, since the ideal control range expansion is a really nice bonus, but it would feel like min-maxing at the expense of realism rather than doing what I needed to just to make the design work.
     
    Himmelhand said:
    For those readers who aren't in the design cabal, what is your take on the options coming up for this vote? Are there any distinctions between the planes that are meaningful, or does it pretty much all come across as noise?
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    Well, the meaningful choice as far as I can see is basically:
    thepsyborg said:
    PICK ANY TWO OUT OF THREE:
    1. Crew luggage allowance and eleventh passenger
    2. Guaranteed Flight Stress 1
    3. Not Made Of Paper
    1+2 is the Dagon-Paper.
    1+3 is the Donkey, Dagon, and Dromedary
    2+3 is the Donkey-Lite, Daimyo, and Droop-Wing
    2 only is the JER1
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    And then beyond that, it's baaaasically personal preference and/or which one's oddball design choices skeeve you out the least.

    And yes, @Crasian01, the vast majority of these designs are going to be using flying control surfaces to reduce stability to keep it in the handling/flight stress sweet spot, and to ensure the plane can at least cruise within its Ideal Control Range.
     
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    open_sketchbook said:
    flying control surfaces were generally less dangerous back in the day because at lower speeds they don't tend to act too evil. the Fokker Eindeckers got away with them.
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    I do keep forgetting about them, that's true.

    Himmelhand said:
    Most of these planes will actively be trying to include flying control surfaces, I think, to hit the design sweet spot in stability management and to expand the otherwise small ideal control range we see at this point.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    brmj said:
    This. Entirely this. Any time you see me using a flying control surface, it is because the plane otherwise risks being too stable to fly easily, and this is one of the easiest ways to help counteract that under the current rules, with a nice bonus as a side benefit. If I could reduce stability by shifting the fuselage around, as @Crasian01 suggested in the other thread, then I probably wouldn't use them. Well, I still might, since the ideal control range expansion is a really nice bonus, but it would feel like min-maxing at the expense of realism rather than doing what I needed to just to make the design work.
    Click to expand...
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    Oh of course, don't get me wrong. As I alluded to, I think it'd be a massive pain to try and incorporate all the risk management stuff you'd normally be doing at least qualitatively for an aircraft, and half the time the "risk management" is drawing a picture on the chalkboard and asking your lead designer "Does that seem right to you?". So I wouldn't say that anyone's done anything wrong here, it's all really very impressive work.

    Edit: Just to clarify a little: The rationale and process here are correct, is what I'm trying to say. I don't have any real doubts that the overall approach people are taking is basically fine, and I know where the design choices are coming from. As a friend of mine put it when I showed him the pics @4WheelSword made: "The planes are a little goofy, but they'll probably fly fine."
     
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    Re-Revised comparison table! Note that all designs meet all of the required benchmarks; the "Goals" column indicates how many of the preferred ones are met- except those which would require research, since we already voted to ban spending additional stress this routine. Yellow text indicates any category that falls short by one increment. (Orange would be two or more. Red would be failure to meet the mandatory requirements. Thankfully, I had no call to use either of these colors.)
    Changelog:
    -Added Fast Droop-Wing
    -Tweaked struts on Donkey-Lite to save Cost so it has something distinguishing it from the Fast Droop-Wing in practical terms.
    -Re-added "Revision Pending" notice to JER1.
    -Marked the best in each column in blue and the worst in pink (unless the worst was below preferred goals, in which case it's yellow).
    -[X] LAYOUT
    --[X] At least two Ogres, probably twin-boom pusher.
    --[X] Two wings, probably tandem, exact arrangement TBD.
    --[X] Two flight crew (pilot and copilot) plus an air steward / skybutler.
    --[X] 10 passengers plus luggage.
    -[X] ESSENTIAL
    --[X] Positive stability
    --[X] 8 Fuel Uses
    --[X] Safe engine-out level flight capability at full load.
    -[X] PREFERABLE
    --[X] 200kph+
    --[X] 15+ Fuel Uses
    --[X] Cabin/cockpit heat, intercom, pushrod controls, Stability max 5 (lower flight stress)
    --[X] Full-load stall speed 12 or less
    --[X] Engines and fuel located away from, preferably behind, the passenger compartment.
    Designs are listed in order of their posting in the thread.
    Design Goals Cost Speed Stall Strain Tough Range Stress Reliab Notes Link
    Joseon Express Rev.1
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		6/6 32円 200
    210
    200     		110 21
    21
    23     		29
    29
    27     		17 1 +5 Paper
    Slim Strain margin
    Revision pending     		#14687
    Donkey
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		5/6
    5/6
    6/6     		30円 210
    220
    210     		130
    130
    120     		30
    30
    32     		19
    19
    17     		17 2
    2
    1     		+5 11 passengers
    crew luggage     		#14696
    Donkey-Lite
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		6/6 27円 210
    220
    210     		120
    120
    110*     		28
    28
    29     		9
    9
    8     		15
    15
    19*     		1 +5 *w/Lighten, choose 1:
    120 stall/19 range
    110 stall/17 range     		#14696
    Daimyo
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		6/6 34円
    34円
    28円     		210
    220
    210     		120 25
    25
    27     		11
    11
    9     		15 1 +3   #14738
    Dagon
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		6/6 28円 200
    210
    200     		120
    120
    110     		28
    28
    30     		22
    22
    20     		16 2
    2
    1     		+5 11 passengers
    crew luggage
    exploity?     		#14761
    Dagon-Paper
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		6/6 28円 200
    210
    200     		110 31
    31
    32     		18
    18
    17     		16 1 +5 As Dagon, plus:
    Paper     		#14761
    Dromedary
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		5/6
    6/6
    5/6     		28円 190
    200
    190     		120
    120
    110     		30
    30
    32     		19
    19
    17     		16 2
    2
    1     		+5 11 passengers
    crew luggage
    conventional/boring     		#14765
    Droop-wing
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		6/6 28円 200
    210
    200     		120 29
    29
    30     		21
    21
    20     		15
    15
    17*     		1 +5 *or Range 19 w/
    both optimizations
    or microtank abuse
    gull-wings are sexy     		#14830
    Fast Droop-wing
    +Streamlining 1
    +Lightening 1     		6/6 28円 210
    220
    210     		120 36
    36
    37     		6
    6
    5     		15
    15
    19     		1 +5 low Toughness
    gull-wings are sexy     		#14836
     
    Last edited:
    I think the Fast Droop-wing and Donkey-lite are my current favorites so far. Both are only just short of my "ideal" and can hit it if we get lucky, without having any glaring problems if we don't manage an optimization roll.

    Thanks to @thepsyborg for the handy comparison charts.
     
    Himmelhand said:
    For those readers who aren't in the design cabal, what is your take on the options coming up for this vote? Are there any distinctions between the planes that are meaningful, or does it pretty much all come across as noise?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I've always had an aesthetic preference for gull wings, so that's the main standout for me right now. They are so dynamic!
     
    Very well. I present to you, the Dali! Named because this thing will surely look surreal. I count the canards as moustache for full effect, but the passengers will need to bring their own drooping clocks.

    Dali

    Part 円 Mass Drag Structure Strain Frame Other
    CREW              
    Pilot, Windscreen 1 2 1     -1 +2 Bail Out
    +Connection   1          
    Copilot, Windscreen 1 2 1     -1 +2 Bail Out
    +Connection   1          
    +Copilot Controls 1          
    +3 Authority
    -1 Flight Stress

    "Passengers x15"
    Passengers x10
    Steward x1
    Drinks x2
    Crew Gear x1
    Bathroom x1    ​
    		   15       -6  
    +Connection   1          
    ENGINES              

    Ogre Z Alpha V-6 #1
    Channel Tractor
    (Lower wing, left)     		6 8 4   -8  
    14 Power
    5 Fuel Use
    Reliability -7(+5)
    Overspeed 23

    Radiator, Drag 11
    Panel, Low     		  3 11      
    +24 Reliability
    (+10/+10)

    Ogre Z Alpha V-6 #2
    Channel Tractor
    (Lower wing, right)     		6 8 4   -8  
    14 Power
    5 Fuel Use
    Reliability -7(+5)
    Overspeed 23
    COVERING & FRAME              
    Frame, Strut/Wire, Base       5      
    Moulded Plywood x7 7 7 7 14   7  
    Canvas x6     12     6  
                   
    WINGS              

    Upper, Parasol
    15m Span, 16m2​ Area     		    1   -20   +3 PSTAB
    -1 Lift Bleed

    Lower, Parasol
    12m Span, 13m2​ Area     		    1   -17   +3 PSTAB
    +2 Lift Bleed
    +1 Authority
    -1 Visibility

    Covering: Canvas     		             
    Longest Wing Effects             -7 Authority
    Extreme Positive Stagger            
    +2 PSTAB
    -2 Lift Bleed
    Total Wing Area Drag     14        
    STABILIZERS              

    Horizontal Stabilizer
    Canard     		    3       -3 PSTAB

    Vertical Stabilizer
    Single Tail Fin
    Out of prop stream     		    3       -1 Authority
    CONTROL SURFACES              
    Large Control Surfaces             ICP is top of ICR
    Ailerons: Default              
    Rudder: Flying             -2 LSTAB
    +2 ICR
    Elevator: Flying             -2 PSTAB
    +1 ICR
    Flaps: Basic 6           -3 Lift Bleed when deployed
    REINFORCEMENT              
    Struts, Wood, x4 4 4 12 20 20   54 Tension
    Wing Truss, x1 1   6       25 Tension
    Wires     5   79    
    LOAD              
    Fuel Tanks, In Fuselage, x6   6       -3  
    Fuel, In Fuselage   30         30 Fuel Uses (15/engine)

    Cargo x10
    passenger luggage x10     		  10       -2  

    UPGRADES​
    		              

    Radiator Loop     		1           Cabin/cockpit heating
    LANDING GEAR              
    Fixed tricycle     19        
                   
    TOTAL 34 98 104 39 46    
    Propellor Pitch: Very Fine
    Stability 4, Max Strain 27, Toughness 12, Handling 75, Fuel Endurance 15, Max Speed 22, Boost 1, DropOff 6, Stall 14 (12), Ideal Control Range 18-28, Flight Stress 1
    • Price: 34円
    • Payload: 10 passengers, 1 mass luggage per passenger, air steward, 2 mass drinks/snacks/boxed meals, 1 mass crew gear, lavatory
    • Performance: 220kph at sea level, 15 Fuel Uses, 120kph stall with flaps, Flight Stress 1
      • With one Lightening optimization: Can remove flaps to reduce cost to 28, Ideal Control Range = 14-24
      • With one Streamlining optimization, able to reach 230 kph at sea level
    • Pro: Absurdity, and also speed
    • Con: Absurdity, and requires research
    Appearance/layout details for @4WheelSword:
    Good luck.


    Spreadsheet

    Ironically it's straight up superior to the Daimyo. Fixes the engine reliability deficit compared to other offerings. I kinda wish I could legitimately submit this.
     
    Last edited:
    Artificial Girl said:
    tbh I like conventional/boring if we're making something we want people to feel safe flying in.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I have to ask, though- is there a public perception among the non-aviation-inclined that "this layout is normal and everything else is nuts"? Like, if all people saw of airplanes was the newspaper coverage of the Great Race and the Caspian-Akitsukuni War, would they genuinely have an awareness of whether a particular layout is "conventional" or not? My understanding is that things are still pretty fluid regarding what airplanes look like.

    I mean, of the designs I can remember off the top of my head? There's a "conventional" monoplane layout with pretty extreme anhedral (the Caspian fighter), the twin-fuselage Ohara Racer, a tailed extreme-stagger biplane (the Desk), a canard staggered biplane pusher (the Duck), a tandem biplane (the Dragonfly), a tandem triplane (the Dolphin), a canard unstaggered triplane with tractor wing nacelles (the Rhino), a broad-chord parasol Farman pusher (the Akibara contestant at the Dragonfly trials), and a "conventional" two-seat tractor biplane (the Herring S-8/Pit Viper). Certainly, not all of these got newspaper coverage, but I'm not entirely convinced the idea of a "standard layout" for airplanes has even taken hold in the public consciousness.
     
    Last edited:
    thepsyborg said:
    I have to ask, though- is there a public perception among the non-aviation-inclined that "this layout is normal and everything else is nuts"? Like, if all people saw of airplanes was the newspaper coverage of the Great Race and the Caspian-Akitsukuni War, would they genuinely have an awareness of whether a particular layout is "conventional" or not? My understanding is that things are still pretty fluid regarding what airplanes look like.

    I mean, of the designs I can remember off the top of my head? There's a "conventional" monoplane layout with pretty extreme anhedral (the Caspian fighter), the twin-fuselage Ohara Racer, a tailed extreme-stagger biplane (the Desk), a canard staggered biplane pusher (the Duck), a tandem biplane (the Dragonfly), a tandem triplane (the Dolphin), a canard unstaggered triplane with tractor wing nacelles (the Rhino), a broad-chord parasol Farman pusher (the Akibara contestant at the Dragonfly trials), and a "conventional" two-seat tractor biplane (the Herring S-8/Pit Viper). Certainly, not all of these got newspaper coverage, but I'm not entirely convinced the idea of a "standard layout" for airplanes has even taken hold in the public consciousness.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It would be really interesting if that was still the case in Akitsukuni even once things start to calm down and normalize in the rest of the world.
     
    The advent of cantilever wings and fully monocoque construction will probably skew our planes closer to the modern, OTL convention. The possible exception may be design choices based on stability constraints.
     
    Himmelhand said:
    The advent of cantilever wings and fully monocoque construction will probably skew our planes closer to the modern, OTL convention. The possible exception may be design choices based on stability constraints.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    There is a significant aspect of truth to this, but if anything it makes tandem wing much more viable. I would expect that to be a large part of the norm we settle into. Also, canards don't get any less good.
     
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